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Lasers, Projectiles, Buffer tanks.

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Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Norwood Franskly But, but your forgetting Capless weapons
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Norwood Franskly But, but your forgetting Capless weapons That's my line!
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Boz Well Imbalanced comparison. Where's the laser Maelstrom fitting?! [Maelstrom, Brawler/gang lazors] Co-Processor II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Ogre II x4
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:18:00 - [34] Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:18:34 Just for fun, lets see the Mealstorm with Lasers, and a Tach / Megabeam comparison... Nvm Thanks Lance, but whats the DPS on that beast? *******The tears of those who fail to adapt sustain me.
beor oranes Caldari Black Water.	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:18:00 - [35] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: beor oranes Just for people who don't get it: T2 projectiles on a Maelstrom is matched by T1 lasers on an Abaddon. Basically showing that if he was to upgrade his Abaddon guns to T2, it totally outperforms the Maelstrom. In turn showing that Minmatar BS's are subpar because projectiles suck monkey balls. Cheers AstroPhobic for giving us another example on how projectiles suck... NP. I can do an artillery vs megabeam/tach if you'd like. You might knock yourself out from the amount of face-desk, though. Please don't I like my nose the shape it is. I haven't even trained up artillery as I don't want to waste sp. ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all!
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Boz Well Imbalanced comparison. Where's the laser Maelstrom fitting?! [Maelstrom, Brawler/gang lazors] Co-Processor II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Ogre II x4 pretend those are AN MF lol
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:20:00 - [37] Lance knows what's up, laserstrom pewpew
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:22:00 - [38] Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 17:24:41 hehehe dps is comprable... (and yes, those rigs are for laser Cpu use) Abby with megapulse I - 700 dps, to 14km or so malestorm with megapulse II - 730 dps, out to like 15km. Falloff is the same, so no worries about that. However, the malestorm wins at range, due to scorch... edit. Drones were discounted in all of this.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:23:00 - [39] Edited by: Transmaniacon on 07/08/2008 17:23:41 Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:18:34 Just for fun, lets see the Mealstorm with Lasers, and a Tach / Megabeam comparison... Nvm Thanks Lance, but whats the DPS on that beast? 986! Whats the point of projectiles again? They don't even work on a bonused ship...
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Lance Fighter hehehe dps is comprable... (and yes, those rigs are for laser Cpu use) Abby with megapulse I - 700 dps, to 14km or so malestorm with megapulse II - 730 dps, out to like 15km. Falloff is the same, so no worries about that. However, the malestorm wins at range, due to scorch... See Matar ships are fine! This proves it, Maelstrom > Abaddon at any range.
beor oranes Caldari Black Water.	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:24:00 - [41] Edited by: beor oranes on 07/08/2008 17:25:06 Originally by: Transmaniacon Edited by: Transmaniacon on 07/08/2008 17:23:41 Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:18:34 Just for fun, lets see the Mealstorm with Lasers, and a Tach / Megabeam comparison... Nvm Thanks Lance, but whats the DPS on that beast? 986! Whats the point of projectiles again? They don't even work on a bonused ship... EXACTLY!!!! Me is training lasers now... ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all!
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:39:00 - [42] Your comparison is stupid, because it is based on the fact that all engagements have more than 10 people on each side. If you make the comparison with gangs of 5 or less you will get a whole new picture. Make gangs of 2 or 3 people on each side with realistic gang-setups meaning something smaller and a command ship. Then come here again.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Tassi Your comparison is stupid, because it is based on the fact that all engagements have more than 10 people on each side. If you make the comparison with gangs of 5 or less you will get a whole new picture. Make gangs of 2 or 3 people on each side with realistic gang-setups meaning something smaller and a command ship. Then come here again. 2 Gank BCs = 1500 DPS. Try again.
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:44:00 - [44] I've actually seen a few comments about Laser Maels floating around before... has anyone here actually used one ingame? If so, how does it actually compare to our bonused projectiles in the actual game, not EFT? I know it's practically tantamount to sacriledge . I'm just curious.
Saetan SaDiablo	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:47:00 - [45] Did you bother to take into account the fact that with projectiles you will always be hitting the smallest resist? That DOES matter you know, and is very significant.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:51:00 - [46] Originally by: AstroPhobic 2 Gank BCs = 1500 DPS. Try again. This is complete bullshit. 2x astarte do 1500 dps at 3km! Show me a gangfight where 2 astarte spawn right within 3 km of you. Please stop this EFT warrior bullshit and take your combat experience into the calculation, oooooops you got any combat experience at all? I doubt that
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Saetan SaDiablo Did you bother to take into account the fact that with projectiles you will always be hitting the smallest resist? That DOES matter you know, and is very significant. You don't. It's a general misconception. First, t1 ships. You can't really say which has what resist because they could be tri-hardened, omni-tanked, have resistance rigs or whatever in their holes. Second, t2 ships. Against amarr ships you have no real good choice, EMP is half explosive/kin, which their biggest resist. Gall and caldari aren't resisted against either EMP or MF. Minnie t2 ships... have pretty even resists across their shields. All that comes with the assumption that none of them simply plug up holes - which a lot of them do. Third, damage. If you're switching from RF EMP to PP, you lost damage to gain an advantage over resists, and you also lost over 10 seconds of DPS (10-15K DPS at optimal) just to try and find a hole that might or might now be there. It's not as easy as "GO GO KINETIC".
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:58:00 - [48] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 07/08/2008 18:01:00 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 07/08/2008 17:59:39 Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Boz Well Imbalanced comparison. Where's the laser Maelstrom fitting?! [Maelstrom, Brawler/gang lazors] Co-Processor II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Ogre II x4 pretend those are AN MF lol Yer doin it wrong =). Maelstrom hasn't the cap to run a decent active tank while pulling off the awesomeness of lasers, the trick is to ignore BOTH bonuses. What the maelstrom DOES have is faster targeting and two more mids... so... Pulse Sniper Maelstrom 8x Mega Pulse II, Scorch 4x Tracking Computers II, 2 optimal, 2 tracking speed. 1x Sensor Booster II 1x 100mn mwd II 4x Heat Sinks 1x Damage Control. 619 dps at 83km. using one more computer for optimal gets you to 90km. Same tracking as a pulse sniping apoc. (2x tracking comps, 1x sensor booster, 1x mwd) Same effective hit points as a pulse sniping apoc. (sniping apoc is extremely cpu limited.) And for the mind melting gank awesomeness, coming in with AN multifrequency and garde IIs gets you 1017 dps at 30km with the tracking to pull that action off (but not the tank) The only draw back is it costs a little more and burns out completely in two minutes. Sacrificing a tracking computer for a cap booster obviously lowers tracking but allows it to run until the boosters dry up. Naturally you ****ers will come in here saying "PAPER TANK PAPER TANK!" but post patch remember that a vagabond will take twice as long to cover 80km and that ships like this are already flown in hac form. If you can fly an apoc there is no reason to fit a maelstrom like that but for lols, but lols you will get. Also remember that all mwd equiped battleships warp in 10 seconds for reasons that should be obvious (faster if you have shit skills, go figure) EDIT just so everyone knows, i said w4nkers and they blocked that. Rtarded. Also, obviously I cant fly it... but as soon as I get t2 lasers you bet I will
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:58:00 - [49] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 07/08/2008 17:59:05 Originally by: Tassi This is complete bullshit. 2x astarte do 1500 dps at 3km! [Brutix, Gank brut] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Your choice Hammerhead II x5 It's glass, and not the prettiest setup, but 850 DPS. 2 do 1700 DPS. Wee. Quote: Show me a gangfight where 2 astarte spawn right within 3 km of you. The abaddon has an advantage at range if this is what you're trying to argue. Quote: Please stop this EFT warrior bullshit and take your combat experience into the calculation, oooooops you got any combat experience at all? I doubt that Nope, I don't do this "pee vee pee". Sounds scary.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:03:00 - [50] Damagetype selection means alot in BS fights. Also, if the Mael gets capped, he dies. If the Abbadon gets capped he can't fire. Lets not forget either that the Maelstrom is gonna be way faster than that plated/rigged Abbadon (which has no web). If I had to choose, I would take the Maelstrom albeit not fit quite like you have it. ------------------------------------------ One other point to mention: If you end up putting T2 guns on that Abbadon.... you're fit will most likely change due to PG issues and such, meaning you'll have less tank or DPS than you'd expect.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:03:00 - [51] Ah yes, the lols. I expect screenshots/killmails when you do Troj, haha.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Boz Well Ah yes, the lols. I expect screenshots/killmails when you do Troj, haha. Oh I'll be sure to send them. ****in 2 months for skillage tho =/
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:05:00 - [53] No, im talking that a gank brutix has a **** poor optimal which simply means that these ships will have to get in range. These are all seconds where your mealstrom will tank the incoming dps EASILY. Those stupid gank-brutix thingies will also pop in a couply seconds meaning that the mealstrom is again able to tank the incoming damage. The obvious advantages of a shield-tanked maelstrom are that it does not need a station to "repair" its hps. This is quite valuable in 0.0. Now I might also say that this EHP abaddon is simply useless in 0.0 except from baiting in your home-region. And in low-sec the gate guns will be eating your arse. So what is left to use this EHP abaddon for? Empire wars or hunting pirates? Amazingly overpowered Go play the game before you complain on the forums, sucka.
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:06:00 - [54] Originally by: General Spaz Damagetype selection means alot in BS fights. Your right - now give us the hold to carry multiple ammo types in useable quantities while holding more than a dousen cap boosters. P.s. Damage type change = damage reduction also on lower DPS ammo, so it's not that black and white. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: General Spaz Damagetype selection means alot in BS fights. Your right - now give us the hold to carry multiple ammo types in useable quantities while holding more than a dousen cap boosters. P.s. Damage type change = damage reduction also on lower DPS ammo, so it's not that black and white. This.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:08:00 - [56] The maelstrom is simply superior when in comes to roaming and multiple engagements per hour. Tanking sentries is also alot easier. Just because you watched Cown's vids doesn't mean that EHP boats are overpowered, they have their place, thats all.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Tassi No, im talking that a gank brutix has a ** poor optimal which simply means that these ships will have to get in range. These are all seconds where your mealstrom will tank the incoming dps EASILY. Those stupid gank-brutix thingies will also pop in a couply seconds meaning that the mealstrom is again able to tank the incoming damage. Not sure what you mean there, 40k EHP isn't a "couple second pop". Mael doesnt even have 70k EHP. I consider small gang fights to be around 5 ships anyway, so what's that, 4k DPS? You're just backtracking on your silly statement about "10 or more". Quote: blabber K. Quote:** Go play the game before you complain on the forums, sucka. Your insults are top notch. I suggest you make a profession of it.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Tassi The maelstrom is simply superior when in comes to roaming and multiple engagements per hour. Yeah, what I do know, these numbers mean nothing. Quote: Tanking sentries is also alot easier. Who said we're tanking sentries? Quote: Just because you watched Cown's vids doesn't mean that EHP boats are overpowered, they have their place, thats all. Seriously guys, find a new place to get your insults.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:12:00 - [59] Check INFOD history, we ALREADY made a profession of it, numpty. I will just tell you that this brutix is so weak ... omg it would melt so fast. Have you ever undocked a single ship?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:14:00 - [60] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 07/08/2008 18:14:39 Originally by: Tassi Check INFOD history, we ALREADY made a profession of it, numpty. Business must be poor. Quote: I will just tell you that this brutix is so weak And? Quote: ... omg it would melt so fast. So would the mael if it was met with a decent amount of DPS. Quote: Have you ever undocked a single ship? I haven't even downloaded EVE yet, I'm logged onto my 10 year old brother's account. I love my older brother. Edit: If you have some sort of serious argument about how my comparison is invalid, please bring it. I'm off for a bit - I'm sure boz or trojan would love to deal with you.

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