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AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:22:00 - [1] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 07/08/2008 16:32:14 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 07/08/2008 16:28:37 You're a max skilled pilot. You have two choices for a small gang - a maelstrom or abaddon. You have ever fit in the world - except you only have t1 megapulse! Oh no! Which would you choose? ... incoming still [Abaddon, t1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II ECCM - Radar II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Here's the abaddon fit. 904 DPS at 13km, enough cap to run the guns for a long, long time, and ECCM for anti-jam goodness. 138k EHP. [Maelstrom, Brawler/gang] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Co-Processor II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Ogre II x4 Here's the maelstrom fit. No warp disruptor, but we get to ignore that because it's a shield tank. No ECCM. 1154 Reinforced/664 Sustained. 1058 DPS at 3km. 960 at 10km. 780 at 15km. Or... switch to barrage. 825 at 15km. 800 at 20km. 670 at 25km. 550 at 30km. Seems about toe to toe with the abaddon. 904 DPS at 13km. 860 at 15km. Not much after that. Let's switch to another ammo.. too bad we don't have scorch
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:32:00 - [2] Reserved, this might be a long post.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:39:00 - [3] Originally by: AstroPhobic You're a max skilled pilot. [snip] you only have t1 megapulse! [snip] Huh? also, at least used best named guns...
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:40:00 - [4] But, but your forgetting Capless weapons
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: AstroPhobic You're a max skilled pilot. [snip] you only have t1 megapulse! [snip] Huh? also, at least used best named guns... pirate making his own tech 1 crap cause he cant buy anything else? maybe? Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:43:00 - [6] Astro is showing that the most basic T1 pulse lasers can match up and outperform T2 autocannons (in falloff).
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:44:00 - [7] Originally by: NeoTheo Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: AstroPhobic You're a max skilled pilot. [snip] you only have t1 megapulse! [snip] Huh? also, at least used best named guns... pirate making his own tech 1 crap cause he cant buy anything else? maybe? But he totally t2 fits the rest of his ship?
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Transmaniacon Astro is showing that the most basic T1 pulse lasers can match up and outperform T2 autocannons (in falloff). With max skills. Yea umm... huh?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Transmaniacon Astro is showing that the most basic T1 pulse lasers can match up and outperform T2 autocannons (in falloff). With max skills. Yea umm... huh? Just go with it.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:48:00 - [10] Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:48:14 Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: Transmaniacon Astro is showing that the most basic T1 pulse lasers can match up and outperform T2 autocannons (in falloff). With max skills. Yea umm... huh? Just go with it. riight, ok
G Mooo Applied Evolution	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:50:00 - [11] Depends what else is in gang, if there are 2 guardians or several RR bs, go with that. If there are basilisks and ravens with shield transfer, go with that. Oh, and train for t2 pulse! If nobody has any remote reps... go for whichever is gankier.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:51:00 - [12] Originally by: G Mooo Depends what else is in gang, if there are 2 guardians or several RR bs, go with that. If there are basilisks and ravens with shield transfer, go with that. Oh, and train for t2 pulse! If nobody has any remote reps... go for whichever is gankier. You missed the point.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:53:00 - [13] Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:54:56 Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:52:51 My dps graph on eft shows that the malestorm does more dps than the t1 megapulse with max skills out to the megapulses optimal - at the megapulse optimal, the megapulse wins... but beyond that, the AC's win. This seems true for all crystals (edit, oops) edit2 The megapulse t2 wins no matter what really... more dps everywhere, then switch to scorch and you get far better range... barrage wins at about 70km in this case, but at that range you are doing like 20 dps.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:54:00 - [14] I think it would become better balanced if we removed cap usage on lasers.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Lance Fighter Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:52:51 My dps graph on eft shows that the malestorm does more dps than the t1 megapulse with max skills out to the megapulses optimal - at the megapulse optimal, the megapulse wins... but beyond that, the AC's win. This seems true for all crystals (edit, oops) EFT doesn't account for hit quality.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:56:00 - [16] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lance Fighter Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:52:51 My dps graph on eft shows that the malestorm does more dps than the t1 megapulse with max skills out to the megapulses optimal - at the megapulse optimal, the megapulse wins... but beyond that, the AC's win. This seems true for all crystals (edit, oops) EFT doesn't account for hit quality. Your right. So what? hit quality does NOT scale with falloff (ive gotten perfect hits at 100km with pulse lasers and MF... dont ask why i was shooting that far lol)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 16:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lance Fighter Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:52:51 My dps graph on eft shows that the malestorm does more dps than the t1 megapulse with max skills out to the megapulses optimal - at the megapulse optimal, the megapulse wins... but beyond that, the AC's win. This seems true for all crystals (edit, oops) EFT doesn't account for hit quality. Your right. So what? hit quality does NOT scale with falloff (ive gotten perfect hits at 100km with pulse lasers and MF... dont ask why i was shooting that far lol) It does scale exactly with falloff. Perfect hits are 1% chance for 3x damage regardless of range.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:01:00 - [18] Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:02:25 comparision is unfair, Your giving the Mealstorm Tech II guns and only giving Abaddon the shittiest there is. I can see a pilot not having the option of using Tech 2 but atleast give him better then complete crap for guns. I would take the Abaddon hands down because it can be EASILY improved. Also no reloads. *******The tears of those who fail to adapt sustain me.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:03:00 - [19] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lance Fighter Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lance Fighter Edited by: Lance Fighter on 07/08/2008 16:52:51 My dps graph on eft shows that the malestorm does more dps than the t1 megapulse with max skills out to the megapulses optimal - at the megapulse optimal, the megapulse wins... but beyond that, the AC's win. This seems true for all crystals (edit, oops) EFT doesn't account for hit quality. Your right. So what? hit quality does NOT scale with falloff (ive gotten perfect hits at 100km with pulse lasers and MF... dont ask why i was shooting that far lol) It does scale exactly with falloff. Perfect hits are 1% chance for 3x damage regardless of range. Where do you get this from? I have been told in my travels that it doesnt scale with falloff... And if you say that it does, then provide me with something that will calculate it. (I dont know the values offhand to do it myself)
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 07/08/2008 17:03:47 Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:02:25 comparision is unfair, Your giving the Mealstorm Tech II guns and only giving Abaddon the shittiest there is. I can see a pilot not having the option of using Tech 2 but atleast give him better then complete crap for guns. I would take the Abaddon hands down because it can be EASILY improved. Also no reloads. lol. Good post Astro :) Let's see how many different ways we can show Minnie ships suck.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:04:00 - [21] Lance he is right, Perfect hits are exactly 1% of your shots, if you are shooting at a range where less then 1% of your shots will be hits statistically all hits will be perfect. *******The tears of those who fail to adapt sustain me.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:05:00 - [22] Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:02:25 comparision is unfair, Your giving the Mealstorm Tech II guns and only giving Abaddon the shittiest there is. I can see a pilot not having the option of using Tech 2 but atleast give him better then complete crap for guns. I would take the Abaddon hands down because it can be EASILY improved. Also no reloads. hehe exactly...
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:06:00 - [23] Originally by: SuiJuris Lance he is right, Perfect hits are exactly 1% of your shots, if you are shooting at a range where less then 1% of your shots will be hits statistically all hits will be perfect. proof + numbers or stfu plz.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:08:00 - [24] http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=114333#114333
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:08:00 - [25] Imbalanced comparison. Where's the laser Maelstrom fitting?!
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:10:00 - [26] Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:02:25 comparision is unfair, Your giving the Mealstorm Tech II guns and only giving Abaddon the shittiest there is. I can see a pilot not having the option of using Tech 2 but atleast give him better then complete crap for guns. I would take the Abaddon hands down because it can be EASILY improved. Also no reloads. Let's say there's no named or t2 megapulse left in eve, they were all destroyed/unseeded/abandoned/hidden from you.
beor oranes Caldari Black Water.	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:13:00 - [27] Just for people who don't get it: T2 projectiles on a Maelstrom is matched by T1 lasers on an Abaddon. Basically showing that if he was to upgrade his Abaddon guns to T2, it totally outperforms the Maelstrom. In turn showing that Minmatar BS's are subpar because projectiles suck monkey balls. Cheers AstroPhobic for giving us another example on how projectiles suck... ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all!
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:14:00 - [28] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 07/08/2008 17:02:25 comparision is unfair, Your giving the Mealstorm Tech II guns and only giving Abaddon the shittiest there is. I can see a pilot not having the option of using Tech 2 but atleast give him better then complete crap for guns. I would take the Abaddon hands down because it can be EASILY improved. Also no reloads. Let's say there's no named or t2 megapulse left in eve, they were all destroyed/unseeded/abandoned/hidden from you. LAZORZ R SEXZ!!! *******The tears of those who fail to adapt sustain me.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:15:00 - [29] Originally by: beor oranes Just for people who don't get it: T2 projectiles on a Maelstrom is matched by T1 lasers on an Abaddon. Basically showing that if he was to upgrade his Abaddon guns to T2, it totally outperforms the Maelstrom. In turn showing that Minmatar BS's are subpar because projectiles suck monkey balls. Cheers AstroPhobic for giving us another example on how projectiles suck... NP. I can do an artillery vs megabeam/tach if you'd like. You might knock yourself out from the amount of face-desk, though.
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Boz Well Where's the laser Maelstrom fitting?! OMG. Maelstrom w/lazer beams = <3 To see that beautiful ship with pink laser beams shooting from it. Now if we could just the Hello Kitty custom skin, so that it looks like the kitten is shooting the laser beams...

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