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Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... wanna share it? =)
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:19:00 - [32] Its pretty easy to guess what setup hes using.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 20:23:22 Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 20:23:02 Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... wanna share it? =) [Myrmidon, New Setup 1] Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Nanobot Accelerator I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 500 DPS, 500 DPS Tank. Edit - Can overload the tank up to 800 DPS as well
Blastil	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:04:00 - [34] I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:11:00 - [35] HAC is cheaper than BS? You sure about that? WTF are you fitting on your Dominix that costs so much, heh.
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:28:00 - [37] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 21:34:07 Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail While I wouldn't state it quite so combative, I kind of have to agree. A hac is in now way shape or form at all in the least or any way cheaper then a BS. I understand they aren't supposed to out class BS's but at this point they don't even out class BC's, another ship that is a LOT cheaper. HAC's will go the way of AF's. Cool idea with no real role because they are outclassed by everything.
Barsexual Castle Greyskull	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. have you ever purchased and fit a hac?
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail While I wouldn't state it quite some combative, I kind of have to agree. A hac is in now way shape or form at all in the least or any way cheaper then a BS. I understand they aren't supposed to out class BS's but at this point they don't even out class BC's, another ship that is a LOT cheaper. HAC's will go the way of AF's. Cool idea with no real role because they are outclassed by everything. Maybe 2 years from now CCP will sneak a HAC speed buff into a patch, and then you'll see threads like "HACS are working now, OH YEAH BABY!" Of course, maybe if they didn't swing the nerf bat so damned hard, this wouldn't be necessary, lol, but whatcha gonna do, eh? That said, some HACs will still have some roles I think (namely, some of the more specialized ones). It's just that they could be so much more if CCP would just balance things instead of nerfing them into oblivion.
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic.	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:14:00 - [40] Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:15:36 I've been tinkering for a long range fit as well. Here's what I came up with: [Ishtar, Range] Damage Control II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Amarr Navy Armor Explosive Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Bouncer II x5 With the MWD off it runs a cap stable tank, and with spike you reach 56+13km. I guess you can fit some offline RR and Salvager in the remaining highs because it's an extremely tight fit. As for the ECCM, you can swap it for a TD/TP/Damp/ECM/Drone mod if you want. It does a respectable 500dps with Bouncer IIs & Spike. No plate and 1544(2202)m/s means it's faster and MUCH more agile than a BS or BC. FRIGANK

Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:15:36 I've been tinkering for a long range fit as well. Here's what I came up with: [Ishtar, Range] Damage Control II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Amarr Navy Armor Explosive Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Bouncer II x5 With the MWD off it runs a cap stable tank, and with spike you reach 56+13km. I guess you can fit some offline RR and Salvager in the remaining highs because it's an extremely tight fit. As for the ECCM, you can swap it for a TD/TP/Damp/ECM/Drone mod if you want. It does a respectable 500dps with Bouncer IIs & Spike. No plate and 1544(2202)m/s means it's faster and MUCH more agile than a BS or BC. My only question is what does this fit do on a ishtar better then the same fit on a domi?
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic.	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:46:00 - [42] Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. FRIGANK
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal A domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. if you slap a couple of nanofibers/inertiastabs in the low theres only about 500m/s difference and its pretty much as agile with a better tank. count in the fact that you can fit heavy neuts on the domi aswell.
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Hardtail Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o Well if you're fighting on close range on a gate and the the non-nanoed ishtar is sniping with sentry drones, maybe is better to actually call the Domi ________________ God is my Wingman
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:55:00 - [46] Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... True, cause when you are fitting the ishtar whith armor tank he got really really big powergrid issue. I fly the ishtar since years, before the "all nano" time, and the ishtar still have the same powergrid. You simply can't have a decent fit using the gun bonus. It's a shame. ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:08:00 - [47] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Hardtail Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o Well if you're fighting on close range on a gate and the the non-nanoed ishtar is sniping with sentry drones, maybe is better to actually call the Domi Irrelevant, as we're saying that why does that outperform a domi with the same type fit? ie: if you have said snipertar next to said sniperdomi at that range, then the ishtar would be called before the domi for 2 reasons, 1: Ishtar will go down easier, and 2:Isk damage is greater. At the hacs are cheaper comment: i cant insure my HAC so the only thing i lose isk wise is module cost =/
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 14:31:00 - [48] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 09/08/2008 14:32:42 This is take two on the setup. I took the advice of people saying that getting into web range with a HAC is going to be suicide so I went a different route. [Ishtar, Non Nano] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium 'Gattotte' Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Prototype ECCM I Magnetometric Sensor Cluster X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S Prototype Cloaking Device I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 Warden II x5 Warrior II x5 Vespa ECM x5 This fit is designed to operate in the 50-90k range. The damps are there to reduce the range of ships in the enemy gang that could hit you at that range. Tank is decent. Last high slot is still a issue though because of CPU. Has plenty of leftover grid though. Edit - I actually meant to put this in my fit thread. Guess it doesn't matter though.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:22:00 - [49] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 09/08/2008 15:22:32 Another fit I came up with. Focused more on sentries. Removed the active tank and went buffer since your fighting at range. If you start taking damage you pretty much have to GTFO. I hate wasting a low slot on a CPU upgrade but HAC's have a shortage of it. [Ishtar, Non Nano Test] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Co-Processor II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I 10MN Afterburner II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Prototype ECCM I Magnetometric Sensor Cluster Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S Prototype Cloaking Device I Drone Link Augmentor I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Ogre II x5 Warden I x5
Arkon Rhys Minmatar Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:45:00 - [50] I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with ---------------------------------------------- Fear me...for I am Noob! ----------------------------------------------

Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 16:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.09 17:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive. 8km/sec ishtars aren't very balanced though
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 17:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive. 8km/sec ishtars aren't very balanced though I have no idea, mine never got about 3.2 lol.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari Demon Theory	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:28:00 - [54] if you passive shield tank your ishtar it will tank a domi all day long even if he has blasters and t2 drones on you.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg if you passive shield tank your ishtar it will tank a domi all day long even if he has blasters and t2 drones on you. This is true, but you can mount a better shield tank on a myrm then you can a Ishtar.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari Demon Theory	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:02:00 - [56] well its difficult to say, depends on damage type, the only way a myrm will outdamage the ishtar is by getting extremely close and using void with neutron blasters which isn't going to happen if your passive.
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:12:00 - [57] Originally by: BABARR Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... True, cause when you are fitting the ishtar whith armor tank he got really really big powergrid issue. I fly the ishtar since years, before the "all nano" time, and the ishtar still have the same powergrid. You simply can't have a decent fit using the gun bonus. It's a shame. Quoting my nemesis. He is correct though, it doesn't have the fitting to fill the gun bonus without using named items etc. which is quite a shame. Also it only has 3 turrets but a bonus to them. Tank bonus instead?
Ulasim Central Research Nexus	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:53:00 - [58] Ishtar is a really brutal ship to tank but you can still use it as a sentry sniper ship for supporting a gate camp. [Ishtar, sentry] Damage Control II Signal Amplifier II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Inertia Stabilizers II Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S Sentry Damage Augmentor I Drone Scope Chip I Bouncer II x5 Garde II x5 Sit at 90-100km away and just go pewpew, or you can drop your gardes on the gate and then sit at around 120-130km and go pewpew.
SERGI MANESTI	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:36:00 - [59] i support the last post. play to it's strengths.. maneuverability wise it will always outclass bc and bs. that's what you're paying for. oh darn, you can't whoop a myrmidon's ass in a 1v1... but when you're loosing.. you can unleash some ecm drones and blast the mwd and dip out, when he's loosing.. he has no escape
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Ulasim Ishtar is a really brutal ship to tank but you can still use it as a sentry sniper ship for supporting a gate camp. Why not use a much cheaper domi that gives you what twice the dps? Vote against the nano nerf!



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