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Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:32:00 - [1] Lets get something out of the way. Yes, I was a nano Ishtar pilot. I wasn't a very GOOD one but I did fly one. Lost more Ishtars in the 3 months that I flew them then I did in a year of flying domi's. Do I think nano's were overpowered? in my hands, not a chance in hell. In the hands of the 5 year old players with poly carbs, snakes, boosters and all that other crap...maybe. Anyway, on to the point of this post. With all of the nano nerf whine threads floating around, almost all of them share something in common. There is someone that is talking about some magical time long ago where HAC's didn't nano. I'll admit, I have only been playing for about a year so I am thinking this was before my time. With the nano Ishtar being killed by the nerf I began thinking of other ways to use the ship. I didn't really want the 25 days I spent training gal cruiser to 5 to be a total waste and resign myself back to a BS. So I broke out EFT and started messing around with some fits. the first thing that came to mind was "I bet it would make a pretty decent sentry sniper/long range drone support boat. Well, My suspicion was right. It does fill that role nicely. But then I encountered a problem. So does the domi. The domi in reality fills it BETTER then the Ishtar does. Actually, The domi fills the role of drone ship better then the ishtar in every situation that I can think of. The domi has tons more EHP, More low slots, More grid/cpu, can fit a better passive shield tank or active armor tank and with a sensor booster it locks as fast as a ishtar. It has more highs so it can fit a extra drone link to makeup for the drone range bonus on the ishtar. Its 1/2 the price and insurable. It has 3 rigs slots instead of 2. What is it exactly that people did with a ishtar before the nano craze hit. I can't think of a single reason to fly one instead of a domi aside from maybe "l33t status" which by this point in the game has pretty much worn off. At this time I have started the skills I need for gal recons. A lot of people think that their bonus to warp scrams will make them a great ship again. I disagree with this. I think they will be useful again because the speed nerf means that range is going to be more of a consideration. People will start using more "longer" range ships and damps will help to dictate that range. Or, I could (And probably am) way off base and will end up in domi again. So that once again makes me wonder. Whats the point of a non nano ishtar?
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:37:00 - [2] Well it can still dictate range in comparison to say a domi, and can still tank decently well for a cruiser. In short the ishtar wont be anywhere near as good as it was nanoed, but it is fliable in solo aswell as gang work.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:46:00 - [3] I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:47:00 - [4] Originally by: goodby4u Well it can still dictate range in comparison to say a domi, and can still tank decently well for a cruiser. In short the ishtar wont be anywhere near as good as it was nanoed, but it is fliable in solo aswell as gang work. I guess thats part of my problem. If your fighting close enough that being able to dictate range is important, your going to be tanked. The domi does that better. I'll give you though that it would be easier to keep a point on solo with a ishtar, but I was talking more in terms of a gang ship. Sorry, I should have stated that.
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.08.07 17:59:00 - [5] I wouldn't worry that much about how your favorite ship is going to fare through this nerf quite yet. I still have some faith in CCP to change things before this goes live.
Barsexual Castle Greyskull	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:00:00 - [6] what about the myrmidon? does it do better than a myrmidon at least?
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:02:00 - [7] I think if active tanking get's a much needed boost (buffer tanks make a mockery of reppers) - then the higher base resists of the ishtar would shine. Baring in mind, The deimos is outhone by the megathron also - a BS should be better than a cruiser regardless... and the nano nerf seems to be coming packaged with a web nerf - so AB hac's will outrun battleship weapons, this plays into the ishtar's hadns perfectly due to it's primary weapon not being effected by tracking. Check out Destination unknown for a nos-repper ishtar setup. Nos as good anynmore, but still worth a look. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Yaro	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:04:00 - [9] Ishtar will still be highly agile compared to a battleship, use teh same setups but fly differently. Drop your point off because you won't need it. Dive in, drop sentries or heavy drones, fly out and do 450+ dps from relative safety. This is still going to be an excellent roaming hac when pared with a scout because of how it's dps is sorted. Just be ready to lose a bunch of drones, you won't be nearly fast enough to dive in to rescue them as you were before.
Yaro	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:08:00 - [10] the only thing wich comes to my mind is to fit it this way. 2 x Medium Armor Repairer II True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I 3 x Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 2 x Small Nosferatu II 2 x Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 Does very good damage, tanks sort of ok.

Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Yaro the only thing wich comes to my mind is to fit it this way. 2 x Medium Armor Repairer II True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I 3 x Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 2 x Small Nosferatu II 2 x Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 Does very good damage, tanks sort of ok. Just realize that any hac goign anywhere near a battleship with a neut will be a dead hac. Thats generall the case pre nerf (unless you are doing a well times fly by) and it will be the case post nerf.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Maeltstome I think if active tanking get's a much needed boost (buffer tanks make a mockery of reppers) - then the higher base resists of the ishtar would shine. Baring in mind, The deimos is outhone by the megathron also - a BS should be better than a cruiser regardless... and the nano nerf seems to be coming packaged with a web nerf - so AB hac's will outrun battleship weapons, this plays into the ishtar's hadns perfectly due to it's primary weapon not being effected by tracking. Check out Destination unknown for a nos-repper ishtar setup. Nos as good anynmore, but still worth a look. I had considered this but there is a problem I don't think has really come to the surface yet. It goes hand in hand with people now thinking that AB AF's are going to be "Teh bomb". They seem to have forgoten 2 important things. Drones and missles. More drones then missles though. I ishtar won't last long with a set of heavies on it. Even less with a set of heavies and some random hammerheads. I am not going to claim to be able to see the future and I could be wrong, But I think days of being able to avoid weapons (Either by speed or being close enough they can't track) is pretty much over. It's going to be a tankers world. At least all my armor tanking skills are to 5 :)
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Trojanman190 Ishtar will still be highly agile compared to a battleship, use teh same setups but fly differently. Drop your point off because you won't need it. Dive in, drop sentries or heavy drones, fly out and do 450+ dps from relative safety. This is still going to be an excellent roaming hac when pared with a scout because of how it's dps is sorted. Just be ready to lose a bunch of drones, you won't be nearly fast enough to dive in to rescue them as you were before. I am a little confused. Why drop sentries? Why not just use ogres from a distance?
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:17:00 - [15] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 07/08/2008 18:18:06 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Trojanman190 Ishtar will still be highly agile compared to a battleship, use teh same setups but fly differently. Drop your point off because you won't need it. Dive in, drop sentries or heavy drones, fly out and do 450+ dps from relative safety. This is still going to be an excellent roaming hac when pared with a scout because of how it's dps is sorted. Just be ready to lose a bunch of drones, you won't be nearly fast enough to dive in to rescue them as you were before. I am a little confused. Why drop sentries? Why not just use ogres from a distance? Either or, just pick one. Pilot preference. Sentries are awesome for larger fights because they don't have to fly anywhere to get damage on target, when one ship pops they move on to the next one even if it is 40km away. The only draw back is there are insanely ****ing expensive. Heavies have to fly to their targets, even if dropped close so you lose a lot of time (lost dps, tons of it) while they fly to their targets. The dps you gain from ogres, in my opinion, does not make up for this lost time. But they are MUCH cheaper than sentries, and berserker IIs are fairly fast and only around 300k. So it's all preference. I fly with a flight of berserker IIs and a flight of garde IIs.
Yaro	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs M8, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Its just a pain that everyone knows that ishtar lacks PG and CPU for any decent T2 fits. Devs know this. But it is too important to nerf nanoships atm.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:19:00 - [17] kinda like myrm, everyone will still think it's good, but in reality it will blow ****
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 07/08/2008 18:18:06 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Trojanman190 Ishtar will still be highly agile compared to a battleship, use teh same setups but fly differently. Drop your point off because you won't need it. Dive in, drop sentries or heavy drones, fly out and do 450+ dps from relative safety. This is still going to be an excellent roaming hac when pared with a scout because of how it's dps is sorted. Just be ready to lose a bunch of drones, you won't be nearly fast enough to dive in to rescue them as you were before. I am a little confused. Why drop sentries? Why not just use ogres from a distance? Either or, just pick one. Pilot preference. Sentries are awesome for larger fights because they don't have to fly anywhere to get damage on target, when one ship pops they move on to the next one even if it is 40km away. The only draw back is there are insanely ****ing expensive. Heavies have to fly to their targets, even if dropped close so you lose a lot of time (lost dps, tons of it) while they fly to their targets. The dps you gain from ogres, in my opinion, does not make up for this lost time. But they are MUCH cheaper than sentries, and berserker IIs are fairly fast and only around 300k. So it's all preference. I fly with a flight of berserker IIs and a flight of garde IIs. K, I understand now. I only have t1 sentries atm but was planning on getting t2's when I was done with recon skills.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Ignatious Mei K, I understand now. I only have t1 sentries atm but was planning on getting t2's when I was done with recon skills. t2s are well worth the training. Much more effective killers in my opinion. But they REALLY hurt the wallet. When you lose a flight of garde IIs you just lost 8mil, and thats if you got them for cheap.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:23:00 - [20] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 18:24:20 Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs M8, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Its just a pain that everyone knows that ishtar lacks PG and CPU for any decent T2 fits. Devs know this. But it is too important to nerf nanoships atm. The grid/cpu thing is actually kinda funny. I was just in EFT messing around with a passive shield tank setup. Got it up to about 600. I thought to myself "Wow, that's not to bad." Then I noticed that I only had 30 CPU left. Come to think of it, It seems to me that with this nano nerf ALL hacs should get a grid/cpu boost across the board so they actually have a chance of getting decent fits on.

Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 18:24:20 Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs M8, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Its just a pain that everyone knows that ishtar lacks PG and CPU for any decent T2 fits. Devs know this. But it is too important to nerf nanoships atm. The grid/cpu thing is actually kinda funny. I was just in EFT messing around with a passive shield tank setup. Got it up to about 600. I thought to myself "Wow, that's not to bad." Then I noticed that I only had 30 CPU left. Come to think of it, It seems to me that with this nano nerf ALL hacs should get a grid/cpu boost across the board so they actually have a chance of getting decent fits on. And then you realize all it takes is a single tier 2 battlecruiser or battleship with a neut to ruin your day. =/
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Ignatious Mei K, I understand now. I only have t1 sentries atm but was planning on getting t2's when I was done with recon skills. t2s are well worth the training. Much more effective killers in my opinion. But they REALLY hurt the wallet. When you lose a flight of garde IIs you just lost 8mil, and thats if you got them for cheap. I once saw a guy in a domi 2 volley a falcon from about 140k out with a set of t2 sentries. Don't know which kind they were though.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 18:24:20 Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs M8, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Its just a pain that everyone knows that ishtar lacks PG and CPU for any decent T2 fits. Devs know this. But it is too important to nerf nanoships atm. The grid/cpu thing is actually kinda funny. I was just in EFT messing around with a passive shield tank setup. Got it up to about 600. I thought to myself "Wow, that's not to bad." Then I noticed that I only had 30 CPU left. Come to think of it, It seems to me that with this nano nerf ALL hacs should get a grid/cpu boost across the board so they actually have a chance of getting decent fits on. And then you realize all it takes is a single tier 2 battlecruiser or battleship with a neut to ruin your day. =/ Yet another reason I think I always stick with my domi. Heavy neuts make anything smaller then a BS cry.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:48:00 - [24] Well, you need to find a way to make use of the advantages HACs have over BSs: - faster - more agile - get targetted slower - target things faster - higher resists - harder to hit with turrets, take less damage from missiles So it's not a ship for fleet slugfests, but that's never really been a HAC's role anyway. So you're going to want to use them for smaller encounters where speed and agility are key to properly picking your battles. The higher resists and being harder to hit could make them much more effective in remote rep gangs than BSs. On a side note, the cost of T2 cruisers in general is likely to fall with the departure of the nano age.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 18:24:20 Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Yaro Originally by: Haradgrim I think its too early to tell. Who knows there might be a niche for a DualMWD/AB setup with neuts/nos + drones Lol, how the hell are you going to fit it ? Where are you going to get the PG and CPU for it Sarcasm, meet Yaro. Yaro, Sarcasm. The suggestion was made by a dev in one of the other threads/blogs M8, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Its just a pain that everyone knows that ishtar lacks PG and CPU for any decent T2 fits. Devs know this. But it is too important to nerf nanoships atm. The grid/cpu thing is actually kinda funny. I was just in EFT messing around with a passive shield tank setup. Got it up to about 600. I thought to myself "Wow, that's not to bad." Then I noticed that I only had 30 CPU left. Come to think of it, It seems to me that with this nano nerf ALL hacs should get a grid/cpu boost across the board so they actually have a chance of getting decent fits on. And then you realize all it takes is a single tier 2 battlecruiser or battleship with a neut to ruin your day. =/ Yet another reason I think I always stick with my domi. Heavy neuts make anything smaller then a BS cry. I was the one being sarcastic, I've been making fun of that comment since the dev made it. You guys are absolutely right, the Ishtar is getting a huge nerf as a result of this patch. Though the domi is overpowered for a tier 1 BS, but thats a serperate issue. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 18:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Gimpb Well, you need to find a way to make use of the advantages HACs have over BSs: - faster - more agile - get targetted slower - target things faster - higher resists - harder to hit with turrets, take less damage from missiles So it's not a ship for fleet slugfests, but that's never really been a HAC's role anyway. So you're going to want to use them for smaller encounters where speed and agility are key to properly picking your battles. The higher resists and being harder to hit could make them much more effective in remote rep gangs than BSs. On a side note, the cost of T2 cruisers in general is likely to fall with the departure of the nano age. The problem is that the strengths of the ishtar is really out done by the domi. Im not sure how it is for other hacs because I have only flown the ishtar. For example- - faster - Countered by that pesky heavy neut every BS fits in the spare high slot - more agile - See above - get targetted slower - Ok, Ill give you that but its only a couple seconds - target things faster - The domi targets almost as fast with a sensor booster (That it can fit because it has 5 mids. - higher resists - But still can't tank as well as a domi - harder to hit with turrets, take less damage from missiles - If your within turret range - See #1. They do take less damage from missle's but they still take close to full damage from cruise. never though of a remote rep HAC gang though, interesting idea.
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:00:00 - [27] I think the only thing the Ishar offers more than the Domi is that it is more aglie/mobile so it warps out/travels faster etc So a gang with Ishars can move much faster than a gang of BSes and maybe for the good FC this can be a key factor on a roaming gang.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Barsexual what about the myrmidon? does it do better than a myrmidon at least? Depends what you mean by "better". IMO… It's faster (but mainly because cruisers are inherently faster than BCs). It does same:ish damage (more drones, but less guns – given the more commonly suggested Myrm fittings, though, the Ishtar usually comes out on top). It is more flexible (due to more bandwidth and dronebay capacity). It doesn't tank as well (higher base resist doesn't make up for less slots and less base HP).
Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 19:38:00 - [29] [Ishtar, WEB WARRIOR!] Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200 DDO Photometry I Targeting Interference E50 Prototype Energy Vampire 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction 75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 This was me toying with the EFT for the speed patch. Cap boosters do tend to help with the neuts, however that means your 0.0 deployments just got a lot more limited. For that reason, i like to pack smaller charges so i can carry more and just time the uses of each charge. The highs are based on the keep ceptors away a little bit, and the nos can be used on that nasty neuting battleship to help. The 5 mids is nice bcuz it gives the room for the tracking disruptor which are basically the new RSD, except missiles are still a problem... As has been mentioned in other threads though, a cruiser without an MWD active will have a smaller sig than the expl rad from cruise/torps already so you shouldn't take full dmg unless they have target painters Call it wishful thinking or me naive, but this is what i have been thinking so far. I dont believe solo pvp will look too good after this patch, so if hacs fit like this in a 3v3 (again wishful thinking) 3 AB hacs vs 3 bs's (say a mega, raven and idk... geddon?) it could potentially atleast be an interesting fight. Whatever...lay it on me CCP i'm feeling masochistic this month.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:03:00 - [30] I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar...

Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... wanna share it? =)
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:19:00 - [32] Its pretty easy to guess what setup hes using.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 20:23:22 Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 20:23:02 Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... wanna share it? =) [Myrmidon, New Setup 1] Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Nanobot Accelerator I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 500 DPS, 500 DPS Tank. Edit - Can overload the tank up to 800 DPS as well
Blastil	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:04:00 - [34] I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:11:00 - [35] HAC is cheaper than BS? You sure about that? WTF are you fitting on your Dominix that costs so much, heh.
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:28:00 - [37] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 07/08/2008 21:34:07 Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail While I wouldn't state it quite so combative, I kind of have to agree. A hac is in now way shape or form at all in the least or any way cheaper then a BS. I understand they aren't supposed to out class BS's but at this point they don't even out class BC's, another ship that is a LOT cheaper. HAC's will go the way of AF's. Cool idea with no real role because they are outclassed by everything.
Barsexual Castle Greyskull	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. have you ever purchased and fit a hac?
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail Originally by: Blastil I think your approaching this wrong. HACs are not supposed to outclass BS. A HAC fills the role of a ship with BS damage, but a sig radius of a cruiser, and the cheepness of fittings of one as well. Overall a HAC winds up being cheeper than a BS (non nanoed) because the fittings are smaller, and the guns are smaller, and they require less time to train to T2 than say a BS. Your Ishtar shouldn't be able to outclass any ONE BS alone. The point is you should have an advantage in gang warfare. OF COURSE your BS is going to be better than the post nerf Ishtar, that's the POINT of the nerf. No longer will ships that were supposed to be less powerful than BS be able to kill a ship that simply outclasses it. This is not to say that your Ishtar will be useless. I'm speaking of ideal situations with L5 skills, good pilots and whatnot, so an Ishtar may still be able to kill BS, or be just as usefull. Also, you forgot to remember- Hacs have cruiser size sig radiuses. Orbiting at 1000 M at 300 m/s will make just about every BS size gun known to man miss you. you are full of fail While I wouldn't state it quite some combative, I kind of have to agree. A hac is in now way shape or form at all in the least or any way cheaper then a BS. I understand they aren't supposed to out class BS's but at this point they don't even out class BC's, another ship that is a LOT cheaper. HAC's will go the way of AF's. Cool idea with no real role because they are outclassed by everything. Maybe 2 years from now CCP will sneak a HAC speed buff into a patch, and then you'll see threads like "HACS are working now, OH YEAH BABY!" Of course, maybe if they didn't swing the nerf bat so damned hard, this wouldn't be necessary, lol, but whatcha gonna do, eh? That said, some HACs will still have some roles I think (namely, some of the more specialized ones). It's just that they could be so much more if CCP would just balance things instead of nerfing them into oblivion.
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic.	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:14:00 - [40] Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:15:36 I've been tinkering for a long range fit as well. Here's what I came up with: [Ishtar, Range] Damage Control II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Amarr Navy Armor Explosive Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Bouncer II x5 With the MWD off it runs a cap stable tank, and with spike you reach 56+13km. I guess you can fit some offline RR and Salvager in the remaining highs because it's an extremely tight fit. As for the ECCM, you can swap it for a TD/TP/Damp/ECM/Drone mod if you want. It does a respectable 500dps with Bouncer IIs & Spike. No plate and 1544(2202)m/s means it's faster and MUCH more agile than a BS or BC. FRIGANK

Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:15:36 I've been tinkering for a long range fit as well. Here's what I came up with: [Ishtar, Range] Damage Control II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Amarr Navy Armor Explosive Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400 Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M 200mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Bouncer II x5 With the MWD off it runs a cap stable tank, and with spike you reach 56+13km. I guess you can fit some offline RR and Salvager in the remaining highs because it's an extremely tight fit. As for the ECCM, you can swap it for a TD/TP/Damp/ECM/Drone mod if you want. It does a respectable 500dps with Bouncer IIs & Spike. No plate and 1544(2202)m/s means it's faster and MUCH more agile than a BS or BC. My only question is what does this fit do on a ishtar better then the same fit on a domi?
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic.	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:46:00 - [42] Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. FRIGANK
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal A domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. if you slap a couple of nanofibers/inertiastabs in the low theres only about 500m/s difference and its pretty much as agile with a better tank. count in the fact that you can fit heavy neuts on the domi aswell.
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.07 22:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 23:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Hardtail Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o Well if you're fighting on close range on a gate and the the non-nanoed ishtar is sniping with sentry drones, maybe is better to actually call the Domi ________________ God is my Wingman
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:55:00 - [46] Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... True, cause when you are fitting the ishtar whith armor tank he got really really big powergrid issue. I fly the ishtar since years, before the "all nano" time, and the ishtar still have the same powergrid. You simply can't have a decent fit using the gun bonus. It's a shame. ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:08:00 - [47] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Hardtail Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 07/08/2008 22:47:28 A Domi can't dictate range, is slower & less maneuverable, is a much larger target, is more likely to be called primary etc.. While a Domi may do individual things better, one the whole an Ishtar is the more versatile choice. you wanna find me an FC stupid enough to call a domi primary over a non-nanoed ishtar? O.o Well if you're fighting on close range on a gate and the the non-nanoed ishtar is sniping with sentry drones, maybe is better to actually call the Domi Irrelevant, as we're saying that why does that outperform a domi with the same type fit? ie: if you have said snipertar next to said sniperdomi at that range, then the ishtar would be called before the domi for 2 reasons, 1: Ishtar will go down easier, and 2:Isk damage is greater. At the hacs are cheaper comment: i cant insure my HAC so the only thing i lose isk wise is module cost =/
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 14:31:00 - [48] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 09/08/2008 14:32:42 This is take two on the setup. I took the advice of people saying that getting into web range with a HAC is going to be suicide so I went a different route. [Ishtar, Non Nano] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium 'Gattotte' Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Prototype ECCM I Magnetometric Sensor Cluster X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Light Gallium I Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S Prototype Cloaking Device I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 Warden II x5 Warrior II x5 Vespa ECM x5 This fit is designed to operate in the 50-90k range. The damps are there to reduce the range of ships in the enemy gang that could hit you at that range. Tank is decent. Last high slot is still a issue though because of CPU. Has plenty of leftover grid though. Edit - I actually meant to put this in my fit thread. Guess it doesn't matter though.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:22:00 - [49] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 09/08/2008 15:22:32 Another fit I came up with. Focused more on sentries. Removed the active tank and went buffer since your fighting at range. If you start taking damage you pretty much have to GTFO. I hate wasting a low slot on a CPU upgrade but HAC's have a shortage of it. [Ishtar, Non Nano Test] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Co-Processor II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I 10MN Afterburner II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Prototype ECCM I Magnetometric Sensor Cluster Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S 75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S Prototype Cloaking Device I Drone Link Augmentor I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Sentry Damage Augmentor I Ogre II x5 Warden I x5
Arkon Rhys Minmatar Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:45:00 - [50] I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with ---------------------------------------------- Fear me...for I am Noob! ----------------------------------------------

Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 16:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.09 17:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive. 8km/sec ishtars aren't very balanced though
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 17:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Arkon Rhys I am not a hac user myself but I have a couple ideas for you maybe..... As you have said a sniper fit with all sentries, maybe a few light or med drones to fend off interceptors with an ative armour tank can work, using the ship for some combat and logistic work in that you fit repper drones as well as combat and can AB or MWD around the targets/target area. Tbh, the speed tanks are still going to be quite good, with the stacking penalty you can still fit lots of nanos, ods etc... you just wont reach those mad speeds that rip the skin off your face And using a dual MWD, AB will deff be a good idea, if in trouble offline the MWD use the AB and you will have more cap to play with The thing is that those "rip the skin off your face" speeds is what kept them alive. 8km/sec ishtars aren't very balanced though I have no idea, mine never got about 3.2 lol.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari Demon Theory	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:28:00 - [54] if you passive shield tank your ishtar it will tank a domi all day long even if he has blasters and t2 drones on you.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg if you passive shield tank your ishtar it will tank a domi all day long even if he has blasters and t2 drones on you. This is true, but you can mount a better shield tank on a myrm then you can a Ishtar.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari Demon Theory	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:02:00 - [56] well its difficult to say, depends on damage type, the only way a myrm will outdamage the ishtar is by getting extremely close and using void with neutron blasters which isn't going to happen if your passive.
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:12:00 - [57] Originally by: BABARR Originally by: Ignatious Mei I just came to a scary conclusion. You can actually mount a moderately sustainable dual rep tank and put out more DPS with a myrm then you can a ishtar. And even with the three rigs its STILL cheaper then losing a ishtar... True, cause when you are fitting the ishtar whith armor tank he got really really big powergrid issue. I fly the ishtar since years, before the "all nano" time, and the ishtar still have the same powergrid. You simply can't have a decent fit using the gun bonus. It's a shame. Quoting my nemesis. He is correct though, it doesn't have the fitting to fill the gun bonus without using named items etc. which is quite a shame. Also it only has 3 turrets but a bonus to them. Tank bonus instead?
Ulasim Central Research Nexus	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:53:00 - [58] Ishtar is a really brutal ship to tank but you can still use it as a sentry sniper ship for supporting a gate camp. [Ishtar, sentry] Damage Control II Signal Amplifier II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Inertia Stabilizers II Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S Sentry Damage Augmentor I Drone Scope Chip I Bouncer II x5 Garde II x5 Sit at 90-100km away and just go pewpew, or you can drop your gardes on the gate and then sit at around 120-130km and go pewpew.
SERGI MANESTI	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:36:00 - [59] i support the last post. play to it's strengths.. maneuverability wise it will always outclass bc and bs. that's what you're paying for. oh darn, you can't whoop a myrmidon's ass in a 1v1... but when you're loosing.. you can unleash some ecm drones and blast the mwd and dip out, when he's loosing.. he has no escape
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Ulasim Ishtar is a really brutal ship to tank but you can still use it as a sentry sniper ship for supporting a gate camp. Why not use a much cheaper domi that gives you what twice the dps? Vote against the nano nerf!



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