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Breaking their promises.

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Mu Yaling Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:30:00 - [91] Edited by: Mu Yaling on 08/08/2008 05:34:20 PVP'ers thoughts on ccp motives
Sean Forrest	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:30:00 - [92] Edited by: Sean Forrest on 08/08/2008 05:30:42 You know, I like the harsh forgiving Eve Idea. I think there should be no way to raise your sec standing, ever. You go down the road to being a pirate, you don't come back. It only makes sense that Concorde will shoot a known thief and murderer on sight right? So if you dip into -5 standings ever, you become Kill On Sight with all Sentries and Concorde ships. Theres a realistic and harsh universe. Enjoy. Edit: It just doesnt make sense that a murderer killing other murderers in space would make you acceptable again, so I say we go with it.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:31:00 - [93] That didn't answer anything I said. I'm not arguing for or against ganking from a moral standpoint, merely saying that it should have appropriate consequences. If you want to believe you're the cleansing flame of eve, purifying noobs across the galaxy, then fine with me. But... don't complain if you have to work at it!
Mu Yaling Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:33:00 - [94] Originally by: Sean Forrest Edited by: Sean Forrest on 08/08/2008 05:30:42 You know, I like the harsh forgiving Eve Idea. I think there should be no way to raise your sec standing, ever. You go down the road to being a pirate, you don't come back. It only makes sense that Concorde will shoot a known thief and murderer on sight right? So if you dip into -5 standings ever, you become Kill On Sight with all Sentries and Concorde ships. Theres a realistic and harsh universe. Enjoy. Edit: It just doesnt make sense that a murderer killing other murderers in space would make you acceptable again, so I say we go with it. i believe in a cold harsh universe, where after thousands of years Asteroids have stopped respawning in belts in highsec, and Guristas give up invading high sec, and all the pve'ers get bored because they have nothing to do other than whine that pirates are too good at the game and need to be nerfed see in that eve.. the pve'ers would just fail and die and leave, but in this current eve, we who seek pvp actually do something about it, and get quite offended when the hoards of WoW'ites see fit to turn them game into something else
Sean Forrest	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:34:00 - [95] So what your saying Mu, is you want the game to be cold and unforgiving, just not to you. Good call.
Mu Yaling Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:36:00 - [96] Originally by: Sean Forrest So what your saying Mu, is you want the game to be cold and unforgiving, just not to you. Good call. i can adapt, sure banish me from highsec, but in the scheme of balance (cos thats what u truely want right?) if that were to happen, it would be time to exhaust all empire supplies.. like the real world.. which is what you seem to think eve is.. cos gankers in eve beat up old people in real life amirite?
Sean Forrest	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:38:00 - [97] Right, which would lead to concorde expanding into low sec space, ridding the galaxy of vermin. I approve. Stop begging CCP to hand you your victims, go work for it and stop whining. Im done wasting time on a bunch of kids sad they can't do whatever they want.
Mu Yaling Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:40:00 - [98] you fail on so many levels.. and you roleplay terribly (you are only roleplaying an angst ridden stereotypical american teenager who cannot see past his own side of the fence, right?) We work for our targets, and we still will, doesnt stop us not being happy that the game is being dumbed down so its safe for people to afk haul. when you have some experience in eve other than todaki belt 1, come have a chat about game mechanics.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:50:00 - [99] None of the changes will impact on griefing, it will still be possible to profit from it, it will still be possibly to kill people you don't like. There are just greater consequences for your actions and your targets will be more selective if you wish to profit. CCP could have gone a different way, and I believe they should have. I would have improved the survivability of ships and made a cumulative penalty when being shot at by multiple targets, a diminishing return which makes focus fire less effective or other means to limit the effectiveness of focus firing. It would solve several PvP problems where focus firing can make PvP hit or miss where you get vaporised if you are the focus no matter what you do. At the moment the emphasis is pretty much all on offense, defense is pretty impotent in EVE which is why we are having major issues.
Pedro Snachez 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.08 05:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Mu Yaling you fail on so many levels.. and you roleplay terribly (you are only roleplaying an angst ridden stereotypical american teenager who cannot see past his own side of the fence, right?) We work for our targets, and we still will, doesnt stop us not being happy that the game is being dumbed down so its safe for people to afk haul. when you have some experience in eve other than todaki belt 1, come have a chat about game mechanics. Sorry that you can't grief players as easily (nice corp name btw), life must be tough. We all obviously know that your opinion is far less than unbiased. I find it hilarious that you guys are whining about carebears whining. Truth be told, the idea that people were making an actual career out of suicide ganking is the dumbest ****ing thing ever. I'm all for suicide ganking existing for targets of opportunity (AFK haulers included), but you might actually have to think about it now. Poor you. This has been an excellent week for tears, keep them coming. I feel very nourished.
Murk Loar Caldari The Ex-Patriots	Posted - 2008.08.08 06:27:00 - [101] Originally by: Siberys the 40k Baneblade Baneblades are awesome.
Eran Laude Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.08.08 06:55:00 - [102] I'm a carebear with teeth, of that I have absolutely no doubt. I enjoy PvE as well as PvP and do the occasional spot of contract hauling [not AFK and taking risks where necessary]. I am not concerned too much about the suicide ganking fix/nerf/whatever you make of it, I think it was definitely necessary in some respects, particularly insurance, and while it will make my job harder as a contract hauler as AFK idiots now have less to fear whilst actual players will lose out on more lucrative contracts, I generally agree with the two proposed nerfs of nanos and suicide ganking and the proposed focusing of wars into objective-based wars. However, I do feel that the player for whom PvP is a staple has been hit too hard. There are many things broken about PvP already, and while ganking and nanos were problems and it's nice to have them fixed, there are much more pressing issues. Now that we have had 3 successive feature announcements inside of a month which have many of the community up in arms, could bounties be fixed please? Bounties are incredibly lucrative in many cases, are a 100% player-driven market with huge opportunities to profit and in just about every case the target is a low-sec or null-sec resident. Surely, by fixing bounties [and be sure on this the C&P forums have come up with so many good ideas on the issue that it is by no means a herculean effort to fix it, they've basically done it for you] and encouraging people to move out to low-sec hunting for prey, you'd appease profiteers [i.e. those people like me who balance PvP and PvE for profit] and pirates alike. Profiteers have a new way of making money, a fun, PvP-orientated way which directly ties in to piracy by it's very nature. Low-sec pirates who haven't moved into suicide ganking get more targets, and finally, such a cool profession may even serve to attract people into EVE. I'm not going to start whining about the nerfs/patches/fixes/etc. but every nerf has to be followed by a fix, so fix bounties? There has never been a better time!
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:22:00 - [103] Neither 'nerf' has actually appeared on Tranquility yet. Why don't you wait to see how they actually turn out before having your hissy fit. I've been playing this game for over four and a half years and I've lived through a dozen nerfs. They are never as bad as the doom merchants claim and most of them turn out to be a great idea. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:52:00 - [104] Originally by: Vikarion Edited by: Vikarion on 07/08/2008 22:22:28 First, I have to state that, up until the last couple of days, I was a fanboi of CCP. This has changed. I started playing Eve in the fall of 2007. Not that long ago. Before then, I had tried several MMOs, including WoW, DDO, GW, and so forth. None of them held my interest - there was no excitement, no thrill. And then I found Eve. I started out as a miner, busily carting ore to and from the station. I feared ore thieves and anyone in a frigate, and hurriedly scurried to the protection of the docking port whenever someone warped into my belt. I viewed ore thievery as the ultimate evil, and pirates as dark predators waiting in the wings to devour me. And you know what? I loved it! The sense of danger even in hi-sec addicted me to this game. You were never safe, never protected, and you had to be smarter, better, more competent. Since then, I have survived war-decs, run approximately 5728 missions, ventured into low-sec and 0.0, and finally, left my carebear ways and became an Empire war-dec griefer. And I loved CCP for the dangerous and open game they gave us. But now I see all of the things I loved as a carebear being taken away, all of the danger, all of the thrill, all of the interesting things...all because people are too downright stupid to protect themselves and their possessions in-game.They act like they are entitled to what they want. I can always go to low-sec and 0.0 for PvP. That's not the issue. The problem is that CCP is behaving ham-fistedly with minor problems - a speed nerf was necessary, and a suicide ganking nerf was ok - but CCP have done their level best to destroy entire styles of play. And now with the news that they intend to nerf war-decs even further - well, it makes me a little sick inside. It's their game, and they can do with it as they wish. But when I signed up, I signed up with their promise that it would be dangerous everywhere, that it would be interesting everywhere, that I would have to think everywhere. I don't want World of Warcraft in space. I don't want to mine in safety. I don't want Empire space to be safe, or my level 4 salvage to be protected, or my corporation to be safe from war-decs. I want Eve to be as they promised it would be - dangerous everywhere. But, I suppose all good things must end. yes, all good things do come to an end the devs we've grown to know and love have mysteriously disappeared playing since '04, the **** is starting to get very ghey yes, the promises have been broken. /insert cliche end of the world, can i have your stuff here
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:54:00 - [105] Originally by: Andrue Neither 'nerf' has actually appeared on Tranquility yet. Why don't you wait to see how they actually turn out before having your hissy fit. I've been playing this game for over four and a half years and I've lived through a dozen nerfs. They are never as bad as the doom merchants claim and most of them turn out to be a great idea. at least back then the devs making the nerfs weren't as scared as a sheep in a pack of wolves to make a showing on the forums and answer the questions posed to them
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:02:00 - [106] Edited by: Xevan Templar on 08/08/2008 08:02:53 Originally by: Vikarion Originally by: Acrel War Decs where being misused.. People where either A making a 1-2 man corp and war decing mostly Indy/Starter corps just for a easy gank.. Or larger corps where targeting ALOT smaller corps for easy ganks. See, this is the problem: this is what I do. I like doing this. And, the thing is, 12 months ago CCP thought it was fine. Now they are saying that I'm misusing the war-dec system. Great. I find something I enjoy doing, and they take it away from me, AFTER stating that it was part of their "vision" for Eve. Oh, and before I became a griefer and a pirate, I was a carebear. And people did this to me. And guess what? I didn't lose a single ship, because I played INTELLIGENTLY! Let's drop the intelligence crap. You just like to gank targets that relativly can't fight back. That's all part of EVE don't get me wrong, but to give a classic comparisen that's the same as a level 60 dude running around in the opposing faction starter area, constantly challenging new level 4 players, and hoping they accidently hit him so he can 1-shot them. If you like to play the game like that sure by all means, but you might want to realise not everybody likes this playstyle, including PVP die-hards.
Vikarion Caldari Onyx Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.08 10:20:00 - [107] Originally by: Xevan Templar Let's drop the intelligence crap. You just like to gank targets that relativly can't fight back. That's all part of EVE don't get me wrong, but to give a classic comparisen that's the same as a level 60 dude running around in the opposing faction starter area, constantly challenging new level 4 players, and hoping they accidently hit him so he can 1-shot them. If you like to play the game like that sure by all means, but you might want to realise not everybody likes this playstyle, including PVP die-hards. Have you even bothered to look at my killboard? Or my character age? I'm still relatively new - less than a year. And I don't sit around ganking people who can't fight back - I've lost several ships to enraged victims, some of whom were considerably older than me. Like 4 years older. As for playing intelligently, I was speaking of when I was a carebear. I was, for a while, and I have the mining skills to prove it. Yet, somehow, against all odds, I managed to avoid dying even once to a griefer. How miraculous, huh? If I wanted to gank a helpless target, I'd go after you. Actually, that might not be such a bad idea. -------- Where I got my great sig...
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:13:00 - [108] Originally by: Vikarion you know, I've never really been a fan of the "adapt-or-die" argument. It's simply applied too widely: 1. I can't breathe underwater! -> adapt or die! 2. BoB is getting t2 BPOs from T20! -> adapt or die! 3. I get disconnected every 37 seconds! -> adapt or die! ROFL! Best post this month SKUNK
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Sean Forrest Edited by: Sean Forrest on 08/08/2008 05:14:08 I'd say it's slightly more rediculous and arbitrary to have thrown "Police related suicide" into the Accept bin for insurance claims. Suicide ganking should never have been profitable because its amazing that anyone could believe that Insurance would pay out for that, let alone that the police would just let your friends loot the ship. I'd say what you just said is just as rediculous and arbitratrary to have "Mined in pirate infested low-sec" or "took his ship into a 600 man fleet battle" thrown into the Accept bin for insurance claims. Its amazing that anyone would believe that Insurance would pay out for people who almost delibiratly put their ship in danger (something you do whenever you undock). Insurance is for accidents in the real world, you don't get your Ford Escort's insurance paid out if you go to Iraq and it get "suicide ganked" by someone, just like the guy "suicide ganking" your Ford Escort doesn't get his insurance paid out. Either leave insurance as it is, or remove it all together except if you accidentaly trash your ship instead of board it (insurance only payed out after having gone to virtual court with virtual lawyers etc). we are recruiting!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Inertial Originally by: Sean Forrest Edited by: Sean Forrest on 08/08/2008 05:14:08 I'd say it's slightly more rediculous and arbitrary to have thrown "Police related suicide" into the Accept bin for insurance claims. Suicide ganking should never have been profitable because its amazing that anyone could believe that Insurance would pay out for that, let alone that the police would just let your friends loot the ship. I'd say what you just said is just as rediculous and arbitratrary to have "Mined in pirate infested low-sec" or "took his ship into a 600 man fleet battle" thrown into the Accept bin for insurance claims. Its amazing that anyone would believe that Insurance would pay out for people who almost delibiratly put their ship in danger (something you do whenever you undock). Insurance is for accidents in the real world, you don't get your Ford Escort's insurance paid out if you go to Iraq and it get "suicide ganked" by someone, just like the guy "suicide ganking" your Ford Escort doesn't get his insurance paid out. Either leave insurance as it is, or remove it all together except if you accidentaly trash your ship instead of board it (insurance only payed out after having gone to virtual court with virtual lawyers etc). Yes insurance need to be removed in all forms imo. ESPECIALLY in 0.0. There is no logical reason 0.0 pilots should be able to insure their ships. Also CCP should consider removal of insurnace for mission runners. It makes no sense they can insure their ships 60 seconds before deliberatly flying into a 50 man horde of pirates. CCP action this please SKUNK
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:24:00 - [111] Originally by: Le Skunk Also CCP should consider removal of insurnace for mission runners. It makes no sense they can insure their ships 60 seconds before deliberatly flying into a 50 man horde of pirates. It'd make more sense for the player to be able to purchase a much lower-grade insurance from the NPC organization they're running the missions for, rather than blanket insurance for everything including missions. Adjust price/insurance return by standings, etc. etc. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:26:00 - [112] Originally by: Le Skunk Yes insurance need to be removed in all forms imo. ESPECIALLY in 0.0. There is no logical reason 0.0 pilots should be able to insure their ships. Also CCP should consider removal of insurnace for mission runners. It makes no sense they can insure their ships 60 seconds before deliberatly flying into a 50 man horde of pirates. CCP action this please SKUNK Wait. I thought missions were riskless. Why wouldn't an insurance company insure vehicles involved in riskless activities? One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:37:00 - [113] Edited by: Inertial on 08/08/2008 11:37:08 Edited for mission Ts. Originally by: Exlegion [ Wait. I thought missions were riskless. Why wouldn't an insurance company insure vehicles involved in riskless activities? The rats might scratch the CNR's paint and cause a psuchological breakdown of the carebears fragile mind. we are recruiting!
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:41:00 - [114] Edited by: Exlegion on 08/08/2008 11:44:01 I see. So then the this thread isn't serious business anymore? :) One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Siberys Gallente Nebula Sharks	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:44:00 - [115] Originally by: Inertial Edited by: Inertial on 08/08/2008 11:37:08 Edited for mission Ts. Originally by: Exlegion [ Wait. I thought missions were riskless. Why wouldn't an insurance company insure vehicles involved in riskless activities? The rats might scratch the CNR's paint and cause a psuchological breakdown of the carebears fragile mind. Then the Carebear goes beserk and we have concord wailing on the poor CB in no time. THAT WOULD BE EPIC! Really, all carebears go beserk and try and kill us all. Would brighten my day a lot... PvE is VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS...
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:46:00 - [116] The thing is EVE is still dangerous everywhere and will be after the nerf.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:51:00 - [117] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Le Skunk Yes insurance need to be removed in all forms imo. ESPECIALLY in 0.0. There is no logical reason 0.0 pilots should be able to insure their ships. Also CCP should consider removal of insurnace for mission runners. It makes no sense they can insure their ships 60 seconds before deliberatly flying into a 50 man horde of pirates. CCP action this please SKUNK Wait. I thought missions were riskless. Why wouldn't an insurance company insure vehicles involved in riskless activities? The risk is purely RP. Vote against the nano nerf!
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:01:00 - [118] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Le Skunk Yes insurance need to be removed in all forms imo. ESPECIALLY in 0.0. There is no logical reason 0.0 pilots should be able to insure their ships. Also CCP should consider removal of insurnace for mission runners. It makes no sense they can insure their ships 60 seconds before deliberatly flying into a 50 man horde of pirates. CCP action this please SKUNK Wait. I thought missions were riskless. Why wouldn't an insurance company insure vehicles involved in riskless activities? The risk is purely RP. So then other than your "RP immersion", insurance for mission runners isn't breaking the game? In fact, it's acting as an isk sink since mission runners aren't collecting the payout. Correct? One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Trind2222 Amarr The Red Ring	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:26:00 - [119] The wardeck nerf will remove players ability to ransom corps. Is allot of pos in high sec you must wardeck a corp to take one down. Many wardeks is take down pos low sec so they don't have to get sec hit. Wardeck cost isk more corps you wardeck more expensive. Players can avoid wardeks corp jumping ect. ____________ Wrangler comes back out wearing his wizard hat and robe Wrangler: Hail and well met from Blizzard, how might I assist you?
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:33:00 - [120] Edited by: Ryoji Tanakama on 08/08/2008 12:33:51 never mind...

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