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Proto Tron
Luna Wolves
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:24:00 -
[1]
Upon much perusing the builds on the forums, it seems that no one used DC units.
Personally, I fly mostly Amarr BS for missions and I do not undock without one.
I feel that DC is the unit that works great in any combat situation, boosting shield, armor and structure! resistances all at the same time at a cost of one! module.
Are there drawbacks to DC usage that I do not see? Help me out.
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achoura
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:28:00 -
[2]
Well you wouldn't see if you're actually using one on a mission....
***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Thenoran
Caldari
Border Rim Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:29:00 -
[3]
I never leave the station without a DC on anything that's bigger than a Cruiser, unless I really really need the cap, PG, CPU or speed...
Its a great module that adds (untouched by stacking penalties) resistances to both shield and armor, and a whopping 60% to structure.
Especially on BSes you would get a serious boost in HP, which may or may not save the day.
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Ship Yield Calc
Improve Mining |
Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:29:00 -
[4]
It's just that in a lot of situations, more armor resist is the way to go, since the goal is not EHP but sustained tank. DC works well when you're starting missions, since you might get into structure and then you'll be happy you have it. Once you know what you're doing though, missions are a pushover and there's not much point fitting a damage control over a hardener.
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Mr Ignitious
Gallente
Noir.
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:29:00 -
[5]
actually, they are extremely popular in pvp as they add a lot of much desired EHP, especially on gallente ships because they tend to have more hull hp than armor hp.
The other thing is DCU's aren't stacking penalized EANMs so when you want good broad resists and you're sitting there between 3 EANMs or 2 EANMs and DCU you usually and probably should go with the DCU.
This is atleast the case with gallente. Amarr have so much armor hp that they may just go with the 3rd EANM sometimes.
In the case of shield tankers, the benefit can sometimes be negligable and tends to be used for a PDU or damage mod instead.
This is just my experience. As a gallente myself, i fit a DCU on ALLLLLL of my ships.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:32:00 -
[6]
It depends on the ship and it's purpose. If youre looking for a quick boost to EHP DCU is almost unmatched. Given the fact that the resist bonus doesn't fall in the same stack as all the other resists, you find that even on shields it's better to fit a DCU than a 4th invulnerability field. It also draws negligable amounts of cap so it will almost certainly be running at the end game of a fight where people start poking holes in your hull.
Some ships simply lack a spare low slot for the task. Other ships have weak hulls (Caldari ships tend to have flimsy armor AND hulls) and don't see a substantial bonus. Gallente ships see the greatest benefit from DCS in a native sense, and they're commonly on Amarr ships - given both races function very well when piling on armor plates and EANM's.
DCU is probably one of the most common PVP ship modules out there.
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Upright
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:33:00 -
[7]
Someone who puts 4x EANM II's on a abba instead of 3x EANMII's and 1x DC II. Fails at eve.
You are right DC's are a good module especialy on BS's since they have decent hull buffer tank that the resistance boost from the DC is very helpful!
Follow ur own intuition, better than msot ship posts on here.
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Arvald
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:41:00 -
[8]
i think the only ship u DONT use a t2 dcu on is my purifier and thats because i need the slots for the all important bcu  the prety much doubling of your hulls ehp is too important to not fit one (especially on them gallente ships with the large hulls)
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:42:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Upright
Someone who puts 4x EANM II's on a abba instead of 3x EANMII's and 1x DC II. Fails at eve.
You are right DC's are a good module especialy on BS's since they have decent hull buffer tank that the resistance boost from the DC is very helpful!
Follow ur own intuition, better than msot ship posts on here.
IMO if you fit 4EANM or 3EANM 1 DCU on your mission ship, you will suck either way. When you only have 1 LAR, you're going to need those mission specific hardeners. DC just isn't that useful for PVE imo, since that slot is better used for your first EANM/specific hardener/weapon upgrade.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Proto Tron
Are there drawbacks to DC usage that I do not see?
That depends.
If you're shooting for a buffer tank, I can't think of any situation where a Damage Control would be a bad idea. The non-stacking resist bonuses are wonderful, and doubling-or-more your structure HP is too good to pass up.
If you're going for an active tank, especially an active shield tank, it becomes far less valuable because the resist bonus from a damage control can easily be trumped by another module that provides more cap to run your booster/repper longer or, if you're running an armor tank, better focused resists.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.12 15:47:00 -
[11]
DC is a great pvp module but pretty useless for PVE. If you get to the point where you get real use from the DC in a mission you are doing it wrong.
Vote against the nano nerf! |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.12 16:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 16:43:09
Everyone sane uses DCs in PvP, unless they're making a speciality ship (like, speedfit, or stuff like that).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Thenoran
Caldari
Border Rim Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.12 16:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Esmenet
DC is a great pvp module but pretty useless for PVE. If you get to the point where you get real use from the DC in a mission you are doing it wrong.
Depends really, on some ships you can end up with a spare low-slot (say a Drake with BCU's?) and adding a 4th or 3rd dmg mod won't help as much as the added tank you would get from the DC, although it varies by ship.
Might also help you live a second longer if your tank breaks and you need to warp out.
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Ship Yield Calc
Improve Mining |
Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.08.12 16:49:00 -
[14]
It's a major staple in pvp but not too common for mission fits generally.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.08.12 17:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Bloody Rabbit on 12/08/2008 17:05:28
After losing 2 mission ships I have now switched over to using DC on my ships. With my internet lag it works great and so far I haven't lost a ship since. Plus the extra hull resist work great for those trying to gank my ships.
*edit* For those who question using a DC on a shield tank mission ship, think about what happens when ganker nuets your cap and your active tank is dead, thats when 60% hull resist kicks in as you try to get away.
Originally by: Galliana Foresta
And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er. 
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.12 17:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thenoran
Originally by: Esmenet
DC is a great pvp module but pretty useless for PVE. If you get to the point where you get real use from the DC in a mission you are doing it wrong.
Depends really, on some ships you can end up with a spare low-slot (say a Drake with BCU's?) and adding a 4th or 3rd dmg mod won't help as much as the added tank you would get from the DC, although it varies by ship.
Might also help you live a second longer if your tank breaks and you need to warp out.
As opposed to a Shield Power Relay which increases your tank by 31.6% instead of 14.3%
Anyways, I find DC's to be kind of useful for PvE, my Abaddon's tank consists of a LAR2 and a DC2. Of course the purpose of the tank is only to last long enought to kill anything that didn't agro the Nighthawk.
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.12 17:11:00 -
[17]
Basically, unless you plan to get into structure during your missions (i.e. you're doing it wrong  ), there are better choices than DC for pve.
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Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.12 19:28:00 -
[18]
i always fit DCU II on every ship except frigs and ceptors..
Even for PvE stuff, it saved my dominixes ass one or two times, when i was too much afk..
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.12 19:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 12/08/2008 19:48:22
I put one in just about any of my pvp ships. But for pve fits they're just not worth the slot.
In missions, if you get into structure, you're doing something seriously wrong. And the resists on armor and shield, why do you care? If you shield tank, you don't care about the armor resists because you're not supposed to get damage on armor. If you armor tank, you don't care about shield resists because the shield will only exist for the first few seconds of the mission.
There's lots of things more important than a damage control for pve fits.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.12 20:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Miss KillSome
i always fit DCU II on every ship except frigs and ceptors..
Even for PvE stuff, it saved my dominixes ass one or two times, when i was too much afk..
Since you fly Gallante, you should seriously play around with running one on your Taranis.
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TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.08.12 21:18:00 -
[21]
DC is great on PvP fits, fairly unnecessary on PvE.
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Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.12 21:24:00 -
[22]
don't usually fit one on a drake or crow so no.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.12 21:41:00 -
[23]
hmmm +15% resists to all, or +55% resists to one thing, well if you know what they will be shooting it should be rather obvious
although abaddon with dc + eanm + 2 spec hardeners does okay. but its quite doable with 3 spec instead. and would be outdone by 4 spec.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.08.12 21:41:00 -
[24]
A DC2 on a mission ship can be quite useful, if you have enough low slots and you don't care about your DPS output.
After 2 T2 hardeners to a specific damage type a DC2 is a better boost to your tank than even a faction EANM.
However, after 2x LAR2 and 4 T2 hardeners most ships only have one low slot left and many people would rather use a CPR2 for cap or a damage mod for better ganking.
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Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.12 23:25:00 -
[25]
on the contrary it is overused.
DCUs are great on Gallente and some Minmatar ships. But on Amarr and Caldari ships (even capitals) where your tank is clearly in the shields or armor, the low slot is best used to bolster that particular tank. Gallente have massive ammounts of structure, and a DCU is crutial - many gallente fights are won with their ships in structure. With Minmatar, its a question of not having a tank to speak of, but buying enough time to gtfo.
The problem recently has been with how EFT calculates EHP. The DCU really scews the numbers. Put in practical pvp situations DCUs are not actually the best choise for every ship.
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GO BLUE!! |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.12 23:50:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 23:50:58
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
But on Amarr and Caldari ships (even capitals) where your tank is clearly in the shields or armor, the low slot is best used to bolster that particular tank.
Erm.
It's like this. Lowslots of a Amarr ship:
-plates (say, two or three)
-EANMs
-DCU
-heatsinks
Now, if you went on to make a ship where you don't care about damage, then the maximum tank alternative would be:
-plates (two to three for a battleship)
-3 hardeners
-EANM(s)
and would leave your armour horribly exposed to anything doing EM, and it does require about 6 to 7 slots to make sense. So unless your ship has 8, you're doing the wrong thing and should be putting heatsinks instead (and many would tell you to put three heatsinks anyway). Which lets us have a 5-slot tank, which you guess, is best done by plates+EANMs+DC (because EANMs get stack nerfed too hard).
That said, naturally you'd want to run the numbers and see if another EANM gives you more effective HP or something.
As for Caldari, the lowslots are full of BCUs or magstabs with a damage control. There's nothing else valid to fit 
Another note about tri-hardened setups: don't do it unless you're going to fit at least a EANM+DC over it, or Amarr ships will make you cry, and they tend to gank preety damn well.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.13 08:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 23:50:58
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
But on Amarr and Caldari ships (even capitals) where your tank is clearly in the shields or armor, the low slot is best used to bolster that particular tank.
Erm.
It's like this. Lowslots of a Amarr ship:
-plates (say, two or three)
-EANMs
-DCU
-heatsinks
Now, if you went on to make a ship where you don't care about damage, then the maximum tank alternative would be:
-plates (two to three for a battleship)
-3 hardeners
-EANM(s)
and would leave your armour horribly exposed to anything doing EM, and it does require about 6 to 7 slots to make sense. So unless your ship has 8, you're doing the wrong thing and should be putting heatsinks instead (and many would tell you to put three heatsinks anyway). Which lets us have a 5-slot tank, which you guess, is best done by plates+EANMs+DC (because EANMs get stack nerfed too hard).
That said, naturally you'd want to run the numbers and see if another EANM gives you more effective HP or something.
As for Caldari, the lowslots are full of BCUs or magstabs with a damage control. There's nothing else valid to fit
Another note about tri-hardened setups: don't do it unless you're going to fit at least a EANM+DC over it, or Amarr ships will make you cry, and they tend to gank preety damn well.
If you are after a tank on an Amarr ship, a second EANM would be preferable to a DCU as far as hardening your primary tank.
With Caldari, Active, Passive and Buffer tanked setups are all different, but even here, I would argue that there are better things to throw into your low slots.
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GO BLUE!! |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.08.13 08:28:00 -
[28]
on any BS i fly i tend not to undock without one, snipers aside.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.13 08:49:00 -
[29]
Quote:
With Caldari, Active, Passive and Buffer tanked setups are all different, but even here, I would argue that there are better things to throw into your low slots.
Nonsense.
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Amberly Coteaz
Amarr
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.13 10:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
If you are after a tank on an Amarr ship, a second EANM would be preferable to a DCU as far as hardening your primary tank.
My Harbinger begs to differ.
Quote:
With Caldari, Active, Passive and Buffer tanked setups are all different, but even here, I would argue that there are better things to throw into your low slots.
As for Caldari active and buffer PvP setups DC II is where its at on anything not speed fitted, with passive well I can think of better things to fly... 
If you find yourself in a fair fight, something went wrong
Originally by: Patch86
OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.
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