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How does the Cerberus rate as a PVP ship

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Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Pteranodon on 21/08/2008 11:41:04 Reading the long slug of my Nighthawk post I noticed that on the way to the Nighthawk skills I can get into a Cerebus in 4 days. How does this ship standup as a PVP ship. I currently mess around in a Caracal & they seem similar. My requirement is a good PVP ship for somebody that has little PVP experience. It needs to use missiles (cause I like missiles) & is reasonbly fast & can tank well. ISK is not really that important as a few GTC's sort out the cash flow problems but what I cant sort out is what ship I should be in. I have reasonable skills but am looking for my Caldari neice PVP ship-I'm pretty sure it is not a Drake or Raven.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:42:00 - [2] The Cerberus is about as good as any nano hac at the moment. It's got it's ups and downs, but it's not a bad ship. Unfortunately, I've not personally flown it (though I know lots of people that swear by it) so I can't really predict how it'll fare when the speed changes occur in the next month or so.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:43:00 - [3] Cerb is almost a good PvP ship. A bit more CPU and a lot more PG, and it would certainly be. As it is... It's that old Caldari bugbear, a "niche" ship. Great for long range anti-support.
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:16:00 - [4] It's allways scary to fight if your in a less-then-sturdy ship like a stabber or a blackbird, since it's missiles have a annoying tendancy to nail your right in the face no matter how fast or far away you are, on the other hand it's pretty flimsy
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Malcanis As it is... It's that old Caldari bugbear, a "niche" ship. Great for long range anti-support. That's true enough. Like the Eagle, it fits into a very specific tactical niche in group combat. Recon ships don't want a Cerb breathing down their neck from 100+km away.
Selko Embries Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.21 17:15:00 - [6] I find the Cerb to be a very effective anti-support ship with 240km range. It can definately be used to counter the, overly griped about, Falcon. Still like most caldari ships you need to be in a gang to make people hang around long enough to die. I personally love my Cerberus.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.21 17:59:00 - [7] The cerberus is a fine PVP ship. It doen't solo but that's not unusual for a caldari ship. It doesn't nano well enough to be worth the trouble (not that that's going to even be worth arguing about post patch) though. If you want nano gank go with a Sacriledge. If you want the ability to field a support cruiser in a variety of roles go with the Cerb. It pretty much excells at: DPS Support (HAM's) Anti-EWAR Suppport (HML's) Anti-Nano/Frigate Support (AML + Precision Lights)
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.08.21 18:57:00 - [8] What about: High: 5 T2 HAM launchers, 1 cloak Meds: 1 MWD II, point, sensor booster, 1 EM hardener, 1 MSE Lows: 3 OD II, 1 Nanofiber II Rigs: 2 polycarbon. This setup gives me 2.7km/s. Is that still too slow to keep up?
Salvar Ar'adim State Property	Posted - 2008.08.21 19:02:00 - [9] The cerb is an amazing PVP ship, its not that great solo, but with a little bit of support it melts faces. The Crow/Falcon/Cerb combo is probably one of the best 3 ship combos in the game. ______ Salvar Ar'Adim [RLLUP]State Property Originally by: CCP Wrangler Get Chribba to publically denounce Veldspar, then we can start discussing winning EVE...
Salvar Ar'adim State Property	Posted - 2008.08.21 19:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Ap0ll0n What about: High: 5 T2 HAM launchers, 1 cloak Meds: 1 MWD II, point, sensor booster, 1 EM hardener, 1 MSE Lows: 3 OD II, 1 Nanofiber II Rigs: 2 polycarbon. This setup gives me 2.7km/s. Is that still too slow to keep up? Don't bother going full nano, try this setup: 5 x HML II w/ cn scourge 1 x LSE II 1 x Warp Disrupter II 1 x Invuln Field II 1 x Named 10 mn MWD 1 x Sensor booster (or invuln/em hardener) 3 x BCU II 1 x PDU II rigs: 2 x EM resist (or if you go with the em hardener in mid, use 1 core defence field extender) ______ Salvar Ar'Adim [RLLUP]State Property Originally by: CCP Wrangler Get Chribba to publically denounce Veldspar, then we can start discussing winning EVE...

Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.21 19:12:00 - [11] Cerb is a not a good ship , just compare it to other hacs. It has no speed no tank no cap ,poor- average dmg ,only it has a nice optimal ,but because it uses missiles most of its dmg wont reach the target in time. Maybe ccp will look at it and gives it more cpu/pg+ little stat balancing.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.08.21 19:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Salvar Ar'adim Don't bother going full nano, try this setup: 5 x HML II w/ cn scourge 1 x LSE II 1 x Warp Disrupter II 1 x Invuln Field II 1 x Named 10 mn MWD 1 x Sensor booster (or invuln/em hardener) 3 x BCU II 1 x PDU II rigs: 2 x EM resist (or if you go with the em hardener in mid, use 1 core defence field extender) Don't bother with tackle - you shouldn't be anywhere close to the action. And the EM rigs are kinda pointless - missile velocity ones are much better, giving you the magic 245 km range.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.21 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Gypsio III Don't bother with tackle - you shouldn't be anywhere close to the action. And the EM rigs are kinda pointless - missile velocity ones are much better, giving you the magic 245 km range. Yes as your cerb tank is like nothing even a vagabond has much better buffer,if you go close you die, but the thing is if you are far away you wont do dmg :( because your friends will kill the target before your missiles reach him or at least loose much dmg.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 02:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Gypsio III Don't bother with tackle - you shouldn't be anywhere close to the action. And the EM rigs are kinda pointless - missile velocity ones are much better, giving you the magic 245 km range. Yes as your cerb tank is like nothing even a vagabond has much better buffer,if you go close you die, but the thing is if you are far away you wont do dmg :( because your friends will kill the target before your missiles reach him or at least loose much dmg. Given the AML cerb can pretty much MELT a vagabond unless it's REALLY pimped (and if it is the vagabond is going to have to stop to deal damage anyway) I think you point is kinda silly. Afterall, I don't view the cerb as either a fast ship OR a tackle ship - ergo my 4 slot tank is vastly superior to the 1 (or 2) slot tank the Vaga has. Sure the vaga can deliver more DPS if it stops and starts slugging it out but my 30k extra EHP (and the fact the vaga is hammering at my highest resists) mean that's a fight he's not going to win alone. The HML cerb is used to kill support - ya know those FALCONS everyone apparently finds impossible to kill/drive off? The HAM cerb is used for DPS support. Just because it doesn't nano is irrelevent - doubly so after the speed nerf. The cerb doesn't need to nano if they pilot realizes they have such a phenomional range advantage.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.22 02:46:00 - [15] There was an post i read a few weeks back that made me laugh. I'm not sure if I agree with it, but it certainly fits the popular Caldari "reputation": Choose three: --Caldari --Solo --PvP --Success Play nice while you butcher each other.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 02:47:00 - [16] There is nothing the cerberus can do the eagle or sacrilege can't do better. It's a crap ship period compared to the insurable drake. Always has been. The patch might change things, but for the moment save your isk and train amarr cruiser V or hybrids.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 02:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Onionico There is nothing the cerberus can do the eagle or sacrilege can't do better. It's a crap ship period compared to the insurable drake. Always has been. The patch might change things, but for the moment save your isk and train amarr cruiser V or hybrids. The cerberus can hit targets for MORE damage at longer ranges than the eagle (same against the sac). The cerberus is better at engaging smaller faster ships than EITHER the eagle or the sac. The cerberus will deliver similar damage as the eagle (with blasters) at longer range. The Cerberus will deliver missiles further than the drake and outrun it forever with little trouble. The Drake is a crude tool in PVP as ALL generalist ships are. It's a hammer - the cerberus is a scalpel, both are effective when used right but neither can be used in the same capacity as the other.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Onionico There is nothing the cerberus can do the eagle or sacrilege can't do better. It's a crap ship period compared to the insurable drake. Always has been. The patch might change things, but for the moment save your isk and train amarr cruiser V or hybrids. And your a noob who listens to whatever ppl tell them. Cerb is great, good all rounder with nice dps poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 03:12:08 Originally by: BiggestT And your a noob who listens to whatever ppl tell them. Cerb is great, good all rounder with nice dps I've flown them since they came out. The sacrilege is a better tackling missile ship, the eagle is a better anti support ship, and the drake is 90% as good as the cerb on it's own - while being being insurable. The cerberus sucks bro, get over it. Nothing personal in me pointing that out, blame ccp. Edit - Just lol at the "sniping" suggestions. You're a missile ship, it ain't happening. Fly another hac if you want a good one. The cerb is rather weak. I'm a noob for saying the cerb sucks ask other vets how the cerb ranks on the "hac" scale.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 03:12:08 Originally by: BiggestT And your a noob who listens to whatever ppl tell them. Cerb is great, good all rounder with nice dps I've flown them since they came out. The sacrilege is a better tackling missile ship, the eagle is a better anti support ship, and the drake is 90% as good as the cerb on it's own - while being being insurable. The cerberus sucks bro, get over it. Nothing personal in me pointing that out, blame ccp. Edit - Just lol at the "sniping" suggestions. You're a missile ship, it ain't happening. Fly another hac if you want a good one. The cerb is rather weak. I'm a noob for saying the cerb sucks ask other vets how the cerb ranks on the "hac" scale. Given even with the shortest ranged weapons the Cerb is fighting WELL outside warp disruptor range I'd hazard the guess that it probably shouldn't be flown with the idea that it should even bother TRYING to tackle. The Cerb is a support cruiser - it drives off opposing EWAR, provides a no fly zone for most nano cruisers (super pimped ones excluded) or can add stout DPS to a gang from outside most of it's peers ranges. These are things that neither the drake nor the cerb are any good at. And the eagle is either DPS support (from point blank range) or anti-support (with less DPS and an equally low probability of killing that pesky falcon). The cerb is equally effective at either role AND nicely fits the anti-nano hat on top of it all. I'm not going to say the Cerb isn't without it's weakness or flaws - afterall it can't tackle and it's not especially sturdy. But what I will say is it's far from a crap ship. You just have to realize what it is and is not going to do well.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:20:00 - [21] Just to touch on that - just recently this cerberus decided it would be a good idea to let my harbinger into web range. Needless to say, it didn't end well for him (or his drake buddy).
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:21:00 - [22] Crap by comparison. The drake can do anything you want a cerb to do (anythign that it SHOULD be doing anyway, sniping with missiles is silly.) That's quite easy to prove, simple math. Add into the discussion that one can insure the drake and the cerb is outclassed then and there. Let's compare it to other hacs shall we? The eagle has far greater range, instant damage, and is the ultimate in anti support. The sacrilege has more dps, more speed, a better tank, and can easily fit tackling gear and an injector. The cerb is crap due to low dps, no tank, dicey fitting issues, uninsurability, and a lack of speed. I didn't create these flaws, I'm pointing them out. Don't hate.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Onionico Crap by comparison. The drake can do anything you want a cerb to do (anythign that it SHOULD be doing anyway, sniping with missiles is silly.) That's quite easy to prove, simple math. Add into the discussion that one can insure the drake and the cerb is outclassed then and there. Let's compare it to other hacs shall we? The eagle has far greater range, instant damage, and is the ultimate in anti support. The sacrilege has more dps, more speed, a better tank, and can easily fit tackling gear and an injector. The cerb is crap due to low dps, no tank, dicey fitting issues, uninsurability, and a lack of speed. I didn't create these flaws, I'm pointing them out. Don't hate. Actually, the eagle has shorter range. And if you want to start comparing adding on modules to increase the range we can look at the neat fact that the Cerb hits out to max range with two rigs. The Eagle can do the same with 2 rigs and 2 Tracking Enhancers. While the cerb's missiles take ages to travel to a target, the Eagle's railguns hit instantly for a WHOPPING 160 DPS. Both ships accomplish the same thing - they drive a ship from the field but don't get a kill. The Drake has shorter range - no matter how many rigs you use a drake cannot engage long targets like the Cerb can. The drake has no defense against nano ships other than a webber and a flight of light drones. Against a nano gang the Drake is in effect all but useless (i'm giving it the benefit of recognizing that you can, from time to time, snag a nano HAC with that web and murder them). The cerb on the other hand with fitted with AML's + precison lights is able to engage nano ships traveling at 4 - 5 km/s from ranges in excess of 40km and deliver 200 sustained DPS - a feat few ships can hope to match. The Sacriledge is a one trick pony - its a heavy tackler with DPS. It's a trick the cerb cannot do well, and trying to ham fist it into the role is silly. The failure here isn't the ship, it's the pilot trying to use the ship in a way it's not intended. A HML Cerb delivers over 300 DPS out to 180km (native) and can push that to the lock limit. In a slugging match between the Eagle (the only other HAC that can reach this range) the cerb wins - double the DPS, better tank (not having to use all but 1 mid slot on range overcomes that tank bonus the Eagle gets). One way or another the eagle is leaving the field - either in a pod or in a panicked warpout. A HAM Cerb delivers over 400 DPS out to 40km giving it phenominal ability to support tacklers. Lack of tank makes this an unattractive option in my book but the abilty to fit EWAR of all shapes and sizes increases the utility of the ship over the Sac. A AML Cerb delivers over 200 dps to any target traveling at less than 7km/s. It can deliver these missiles up to 70km away, though the realistic engagement range is roughly 20 - 40 km for most nano boats thanks to the fact missiles have to catch the target. No other caldari ship does this effectively. Speed is rapidly about to become a non issue - or did you not read the thousand threads whining about that very fact?
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:40:00 - [24] I'd rather use an Onyx, tbh. _
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Onionico Crap by comparison. The drake can do anything you want a cerb to do (anythign that it SHOULD be doing anyway, sniping with missiles is silly.) That's quite easy to prove, simple math. Add into the discussion that one can insure the drake and the cerb is outclassed then and there. Let's compare it to other hacs shall we? The eagle has far greater range, instant damage, and is the ultimate in anti support. The sacrilege has more dps, more speed, a better tank, and can easily fit tackling gear and an injector. The cerb is crap due to low dps, no tank, dicey fitting issues, uninsurability, and a lack of speed. I didn't create these flaws, I'm pointing them out. Don't hate. I bet youve never flown it, and ignore things like Drake is slow (cerb is too, but u whack a mwd on it for reproaching gates/escaping bubbles, not too be a "nano", drake is slow for that), cerb is faster to align, cerb has better resists, smaller sig radius, better ability to hit anything fast (post patch especially), and long range dps: now here u say, but the eagle blah, yes the eagle is great, but no way is the eagle going to do as much damage at long range over a cerb. Only problem is waiting for volley to hit, but if ur shooting bs's/bc's they wont warp off in time nayway. Oh and the Cerb can kill falcons.. ill repeat that. Cerb can kill falcons.. If you think thats crap then i think you have your standards far too high poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 22/08/2008 03:55:02 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 22/08/2008 03:49:37 Cerb is currently a great gang ship. I agree, but it is outdone by most ships. The ability to hit from so far away is so phantasmagorically un-needed, that a Sacrilege does a much better jump at speed, tank, tackle and damage. It'll be more times of you saying, "I wish I was in a Sacrilege", than, "I wish I was in a Cerberus". _
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 03:48:42 Originally by: Derek Sigres Actually, the eagle has shorter range. I stopped reading right there. Originally by: BiggestT I bet youve never flown it... Oh and the Cerb can kill falcons.. ill repeat that. Cerb can kill falcons.. I don't even need to respond to this one. Originally by: Raymond Sterns I'd rather use an Onyx, tbh. Me too. It's fun how you make statements that are utterly false then don't bother defending them. It really is It's even more fun that you disregard my statements with a wave of the hand stating you don't need to respond. It doesn't make your argument any more solid. Red Herring aruguements followed by snobbish refusal to even consider a counter point are textbook troll behavior - taught in internet trolling 101 if I'm not mistaken.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:56:00 - [28] Hi raymond? Miss me? <--- angelonico. Back to the point, and to further this discussion: The cerb is a "great gang ship" compared to what?
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Derek Sigres stuff I note how you delve into personal attacks and dodging rather than respond to my points. Try answering my question. It would be a good start. The cerb sucks and I'm having a good chuckle at your attempts to defend it.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres stuff I note how you delve into personal attacks and dodging rather than respond to my points. Try answering my question. It would be a good start. The cerb sucks and I'm having a good chuckle at your attempts to defend it. Funny how u ignored everything i said too, fly the ship first, then pvp in it. Then come back and say its crap. ITS NOT stfu poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres Depends on how you configure your Cerberus I suppose. Until you know what role it's trying to fill it's hard to tell you what ships it does that job better than. Give me a role and I'll give you a cheaper, more effective ship that requires as much or less training time. Alright. Caldari missile based ship that is suitable for engaging nano ships for reasonable levels of damage up to 6km/s. Hell, any missile ship for that matter - doesn't have to be Caldari.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 03:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres stuff I note how you delve into personal attacks and dodging rather than respond to my points. Try answering my question. It would be a good start. The cerb sucks and I'm having a good chuckle at your attempts to defend it. I did answer your question, you however have yet to offer a counter to my points - simply dismissing them. Not answering a question is not answering a question is it not?
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:02:41 Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres Depends on how you configure your Cerberus I suppose. Until you know what role it's trying to fill it's hard to tell you what ships it does that job better than. Give me a role and I'll give you a cheaper, more effective ship that requires as much or less training time. Alright. Caldari missile based ship that is suitable for engaging nano ships for reasonable levels of damage up to 6km/s. Hell, any missile ship for that matter - doesn't have to be Caldari. It has to be a missile ship and it has to be caldari? Drake. Larger buffer, more meds for webs. Edit - forgot to mention the 5 light ecm drones :) Glad to see you're actually discussing this now and not insulting. Progress. Cheers.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres Depends on how you configure your Cerberus I suppose. Until you know what role it's trying to fill it's hard to tell you what ships it does that job better than. Give me a role and I'll give you a cheaper, more effective ship that requires as much or less training time. Alright. Caldari missile based ship that is suitable for engaging nano ships for reasonable levels of damage up to 6km/s. Hell, any missile ship for that matter - doesn't have to be Caldari. It has to be a missile ship and it has to be caldari? Drake. Larger buffer, more meds for webs. LOL, if ya fitting webs to a cerb than no wonder u dont like it, its a mid range ship that does awesome dps at whatever range you want it to. oh and yeah, it can kill falcons, lets see ur webber drake try that poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:04:00 - [35] Please pay attention to the question he posed, and the limitations he gave me.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Originally by: Rawr Cristina Cerb is currently a great gang ship. I agree, but it is outdone by most ships. The ability to hit from so far away is so phantasmagorically un-needed, that a Sacrilege does a much better jump at speed, tank, tackle and damage. It'll be more times of you saying, "I wish I was in a Sacrilege", than, "I wish I was in a Cerberus". Sac and Cerb fit different roles though. Sacrilege you fly when you're engaging slower ships; BCs, Battleships and the like. It's generally a horrible choice vs other Nanos. Cerb you fly when you're fighting other Nanos. That extreme range is incredibly useful as even if they MWD out of your lockrange, they'll still be in pursuit for another 80km or so. They'll be constantly bombarded with missiles even if they aren't in range and if they slow down for any reason they'll take substantial damage. No other HAC can do that so effectively. - Infectious -
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:07:00 - [37] Are you kidding me? A nano sac is a nano killer and a tanked sacrilege can hold it's own as well. The sacrilege absolutely dominated the cerberus in every way but missile (lol) sniping. It's a better ship. Go point for point (ship qualities) and compare the two. You'll come to the same conclusion I'm sure.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Onionico Please pay attention to the question he posed, and the limitations he gave me. you realise that one can engage nanoes without webs on every sinlge ship? Its a gang ship, you fit for dps, while soem1 else does the webbing. mmk? poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:11:00 - [39] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:02:41 Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Derek Sigres Depends on how you configure your Cerberus I suppose. Until you know what role it's trying to fill it's hard to tell you what ships it does that job better than. Give me a role and I'll give you a cheaper, more effective ship that requires as much or less training time. Alright. Caldari missile based ship that is suitable for engaging nano ships for reasonable levels of damage up to 6km/s. Hell, any missile ship for that matter - doesn't have to be Caldari. It has to be a missile ship and it has to be caldari? Drake. Larger buffer, more meds for webs. Edit - forgot to mention the 5 light ecm drones :) Glad to see you're actually discussing this now and not insulting. Progress. Cheers. A drake with webs is the solution? Oddly enough I find that a Drake with webs travels at a whopping 1.1km/s. I suppose one could nano it. I'm willing to grant that sudden maneuvers can get you inside webrange from time to time but let's face it - without the web HAM's don't hit (hell, hams dont hit until they dam near stop at the edge of web range against a nano ship) and HML's hit for approximately 0 damage. Can it be done? Yep. Can it be done as effectively as a Cerb? Nope. I like the Drake - I really do, but it is a fundamentally different ship compared to the Cerb. The two ships are truly NOT competing with one another. The Cerb is not a close range tackling slugger it fights from range. You can disregard the cerb's range all you want that doesn't escape the fact that the Cerb can deliver missiles as far as any ship can ever hope to engage. Will they warpout without you getting a kill? Maybe - but in the time they warpout and turn around they won't be helping their gang - meaning the Cerb has accomplished something measurable - removal of one ships' worth of support from the battle. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and say the Cerb is some sort of incredible pwnmobile - It's a support cruiser. Yes there are other ships to fly that do certain aspects of the Cerb's many roles better but there simply is not another missile ship out there that does so many jobs effectively. The Drake has it's place in my arsenel - if I want an expendible ship the Drake is the route to go. Once I finish training Amarr Cruiser V the Sacriledge will have a place in my hanger too - afterall sometimes a gang needs another tackle capable ship more than they need a support cruiser. Neither of these ships will remove my desire to use a cerb or negate it's ability to be a useful part of a gang.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:11:00 - [40] If only the cerb could actually enough damage to justify it's lack of proper tank, speed, or drone space. Then it might actually be a good gang ship.

Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:12:00 - [41] To derek - try catching ANY nanoship in a cerb. You'll have as much luck as in a drake. I promise.
Scathain Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:15:00 - [42] Ill take you 1v1 in a eagle vs a cerb at 250km. By the time your missles get close to me ill warp in and out to avoid the damage. There is a reason Cruise Ravens target the secondary target, or are not invited to fleets. The time it takes for the missles to get to you, you can warp out and in and the damage is 100% negated. =============================================== Oh Noes!!1!oNe
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:17:00 - [43] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:19:02 Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:16:57 Originally by: Scathain Ill take you 1v1 in a eagle vs a cerb at 250km. By the time your missles get close to me ill warp in and out to avoid the damage. There is a reason Cruise Ravens target the secondary target, or are not invited to fleets. The time it takes for the missles to get to you, you can warp out and in and the damage is 100% negated. People fly cruise ravens post torp buff? Christ. Cruise ravens are for ratting, not pvp. Unless you're burn eden, but I think cloaking gate camps are rather boring personally. That said, my "eagle" would shoot you a lot - then warp off as you slowly approached. Give me a setup on a cerb that can 1v1 anything and shut me up. Challenge: solo cerb fit that can take on, hold down, and kill any t2 cruiser, battle cruiser, or battleship. Game on.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Onionico try catching ANY nanoship in a cerb. You'll have as much luck as in a drake. I promise. Never said the Cerb was a solo ship. Try reading. - Infectious -
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Onionico try catching ANY nanoship in a cerb. You'll have as much luck as in a drake. I promise. Never said the Cerb was a solo ship. Try reading. Qasn't talking to just you, stop being so sensitive.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Onionico To derek - try catching ANY nanoship in a cerb. You'll have as much luck as in a drake. I promise. I recognize the Cerb isn't fast. But what I feel you are consistantly overlooking is the fact that an AML + Precision Light Cerb (with flare rigs) delivers a missile barrage that: Travels 90 KM before missile burnout Delivers 200+ (Kinetic) DPS Flies at 8.7km/s Explodes at just shy of 6km/s Even with a web such a cerb can fit a tank fully 50% stronger than the average nano ship (35k versus 20k EHP). But the point is the cerb doesn't really NEED the web - afterall if the missile can catch the target (and it's a rare nano ship that missile can't catch) it's going to hurt the target. And because of a strange quirk in bonuses, the AML cerb actually does more missile DPS than an AML Drake. In my book the AML Cerb is the ultimate caldari answer to the nano ship. Unfortnatly as a race caldari ships have a tradition of being the least nanoable and the least effective against exceedingly fast targets leading often to the assumption that nano ships were stupendiously overpowered. I myself thought all weapons had trouble hitting nano ships - then I found out it was just me and my medium missiles.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:19:02 Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:16:57 Originally by: Scathain Ill take you 1v1 in a eagle vs a cerb at 250km. By the time your missles get close to me ill warp in and out to avoid the damage. There is a reason Cruise Ravens target the secondary target, or are not invited to fleets. The time it takes for the missles to get to you, you can warp out and in and the damage is 100% negated. People fly cruise ravens post torp buff? Christ. Cruise ravens are for ratting, not pvp. Unless you're burn eden, but I think cloaking gate camps are rather boring personally. That said, my "eagle" would shoot you a lot - then warp off as you slowly approached. Give me a setup on a cerb that can 1v1 anything and shut me up. Challenge: solo cerb fit that can take on, hold down, and kill any t2 cruiser, battle cruiser, or battleship. Game on. It really REALLY depends on the T2 cruiser and it's fitting. I'm not going to claim the Cerb is a solo anything. The Drake is one of the ONLY caldari ships I fit a warp disruptor on (that and a Condor. . . ) and incidentally is one of the only Caldari ships that is actually truly soloable (the tank sacrifice for tackle isn't terribly severe 3 slot tank + 3 rigs (even resists) give you a sturdy tank, blistering DPS and a holy PVP trinity) Closest thing I fit to tackle on a Cerberus is the occasional web. One time, a medium neut. . . until I realized if something was in medium neut range there were in overheated web range too.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:24:00 - [48] Originally by: Scathain Ill take you 1v1 in a eagle vs a cerb at 250km. By the time your missles get close to me ill warp in and out to avoid the damage. There is a reason Cruise Ravens target the secondary target, or are not invited to fleets. The time it takes for the missles to get to you, you can warp out and in and the damage is 100% negated. LOL, fail post. You realise that warping out means u lose right? cerb held the line, and if he feels in trouble he can warp off And dont think that, becasue you can fly an eagle that its way better. I fly both and love both, but eagle is no where near as versatile as the cerb, the cerb provides good all around dps at any range, if eagle gets close it has to change ammo, change scripts etc and its dps will be much worse anyway. eagle: long range king cerb: jack of all ranges, decent at all of them but ruler of none poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:35:00 - [49] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:39:00 This forum thing is hard. Holy double post batman!
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:39:00 - [50] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:45:49 Originally by: BiggestT Eagle vs. Cerb Alright, provided warping out means you lose, I'd fit t2 blasters on it, a rack of damage mods and tracking enhancers + dcuII, and a stronger tank than you in my meds. Congrats, I can beat you up close with the eagle as well as from far away. The cerb isn't a very good ship, it's nothing personal. Relax. Originally by: BiggestT cerb: jack of all ranges The cerb is: a:) Slow. b:) Low damage output. c:) Mediocore/sad tank. d:) Has no drone space. e:) It's attractions (missile speed) doesn't pan out in the actual game very well. Missiles take too damn long to reach their targets. f:) Has too few medslots to fit standard tackling gear or an injector. g:) Is uninsurable on top of all of that. Jack of all trades . Also, the impoliteness and presence of personal attacks is a good indicator of your argument's weakness. I will, however, take Derek's suggestion and put them into practice. I'll comment further after I try this nano standardprecision cerb out. It might have some merit. Edit - Bolded for emphasis.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:41:00 - [51] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 22/08/2008 04:44:28 Originally by: Onionico i'll comment further after i try this precision standard nano cerb out I hope you didn't confuse my "flies at 8.7 km/s" for saying the Cerb can fly that fast - that's how fast the missile goes. I use this setup: 5 AML II's Web 2 LSE II 10MN MWD II Invul II 3 BCS II DCU 2 Warhead Flare Rigs I travel at a whopping 1021m/s top speed You end up with a spare high slot. I tried forcing a neut in there but it didn't ever do any good and wasn't worth giving up a DCU to make it fit. The web is truly optional - it gives you an off chance to catch the REALLY fast nano ships but if the ship is outrunning your damage it's probably going to evade you and the web pretty handily (since it's probably exceeding your own speed by a factor of 8:1). If you lose the web a second Invul can boost your EHP fairly nicely. The mid slots can be fit in a variety of ways - the buffer tank just seemed the most logical in the event the nano ship slowed down and tried to actually slug it out.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:42:00 - [52] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:47:34 Originally by: Derek Sigres Stuff. No I didn't - and I wasn't kidding. I'm kitting a t2 SML w/ precisions as we speak ^^ I'd also like to say that I'm not calling for this ship to be boosted. Caldari already have enough fine ships. The upcoming patch might be a HUGE buff to this ship.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Onionico Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Onionico try catching ANY nanoship in a cerb. You'll have as much luck as in a drake. I promise. Never said the Cerb was a solo ship. Try reading. Wasn't talking to just you, stop being so sensitive. Meh sorry, habit from unhealthy amounts of forumwhoring makes me *****y sometimes I <3 Cerb. - Infectious -
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:52:00 - [54] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:47:34 Originally by: Derek Sigres Stuff. No I didn't - and I wasn't kidding. I'm kitting a t2 SML w/ precisions as we speak ^^ I'd also like to say that I'm not calling for this ship to be boosted. Caldari already have enough fine ships. The upcoming patch might be a HUGE buff to this ship. I don't think the Cerb needs boosting. If I had a gripe it's about the precsion heavy missile (what you'd THINK you should be using, only you find that a precision cruise works better. . . ) and that problem may indeed be going away. Hell, post nano nerf it looks like there won't be a ship out there the AML cerb can't hurt, as of the last time the changes were on SiSi at any rate (even interceptors weren't outrunning the things). And keeping cruisers to a "reasonable" speed of 2.5km/s when fitted for speed means you can fit the much more flexible HML and be effective in more scenarios.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:54:00 - [55] Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:54:55 I agree whole heartedly. Precison heavies need a boost. The patch might be delivering that to us both however. I for one welcome our new cerb overlords. Originally by: Rawr Cristina Meh sorry, habit from unhealthy amounts of forumwhoring makes me *****y sometimes I <3 Cerb. Hug it out.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:45:49 Originally by: BiggestT Eagle vs. Cerb Alright, provided warping out means you lose, I'd fit t2 blasters on it, a rack of damage mods and tracking enhancers + dcuII, and a stronger tank than you in my meds. Congrats, I can beat you up close with the eagle as well as from far away. The cerb isn't a very good ship, it's nothing personal. Relax. Originally by: BiggestT cerb: jack of all ranges The cerb is: a:) Slow. b:) Low damage output. c:) Mediocore/sad tank. d:) Has no drone space. e:) It's attractions (missile speed) doesn't pan out in the actual game very well. Missiles take too damn long to reach their targets. f:) Has too few medslots to fit standard tackling gear or an injector. g:) Is uninsurable on top of all of that. Jack of all trades . Also, the impoliteness and presence of personal attacks is a good indicator of your argument's weakness. I will, however, take Derek's suggestion and put them into practice. I'll comment further after I try this nano standardprecision cerb out. It might have some merit. Edit - Bolded for emphasis. Ok, i too was once like that, i thought u needed to tank, scram and do dps at once. U dont. Just fit an mwd on for reproaching gates, a small buffer tank and rest for dps. And i said jack of all RANGES not trades :P P.S. Your tanked close range eagle wld fail, ud be dead before u got in range/cldnt track me coz ur trading tracking computers for tank . You will NOT be able to fit a better (better than 2 lse like on a Cerb) tank and a full rack of guns with room for tracking AND dmg mods. When you say "full rack of tracking" im assuming in lows, and ull only be able to fit one if you want 2 dmg mods and a dcu. PS Im attacking you for ignorantly saying outright "cerb is crap" when its not, ill flame a statement like that anyday. poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 04:58:00 - [57] Originally by: BiggestT cerb: jack of all ranges DOH. F'ing weed.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 05:00:00 - [58] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:54:55 I agree whole heartedly. Precison heavies need a boost. The patch might be delivering that to us both however. I for one welcome our new cerb overlords. Originally by: Rawr Cristina Meh sorry, habit from unhealthy amounts of forumwhoring makes me ****y sometimes I <3 Cerb. Hug it out. I will agree that in relation to the drakes cost effectiveness, its hard to defend the cerb. However, the cerb is still a good pvp ship and doesnt need a boost, especially post nerf. I do think however, that the draek cld do with a nerf. I mean its almost as good as my nighthawk which is quite sad. poudly annoying fc's since 2007* The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.22 05:09:00 - [59] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 22/08/2008 05:10:55 Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 22/08/2008 04:54:55 I agree whole heartedly. Precison heavies need a boost. The patch might be delivering that to us both however. I for one welcome our new cerb overlords. Originally by: Rawr Cristina Meh sorry, habit from unhealthy amounts of forumwhoring makes me *****y sometimes I <3 Cerb. Hug it out. I will agree that in relation to the drakes cost effectiveness, its hard to defend the cerb. However, the cerb is still a good pvp ship and doesnt need a boost, especially post nerf. I do think however, that the draek cld do with a nerf. I mean its almost as good as my nighthawk which is quite sad. The cost effectiveness question is one that rarely comes up in the T2 debates of late. The HAC's, when looked at in terms of damage output and durability clearly play second fiddle to the larger BC's, but all of this has been mitigated by the tremendous success of the nano school of thought. Afterall, if you ship can be fitted so that it has a survial rate approaching that of "sure thing" in some cases cost really isn't an issue. AF's are unquestionably good ships until you look at it from the perspective of cost. They do a job similar to that reserved for T1 cruisers at many times the price tag. In short, the AF's just are not terribly cost effective. The Cerberus stands out as one of the only HAC's that can't nano well meaning it's often judged on it's gank/tank potential where it clearly pales in comparison to the downright fearsome Drake. But gank/tank is only part of the story - as I've pointed out time and again the Cerberus can do things a Drake quite simply cannot. Is the Cerb cost effective? I suppose that's for others to decide. I do lose them from time to time but I have fun and feel that I bring a viable and imporant set of tools to a fight. In my book it's cost effective but everyone's standard for this varies. Besides, the Cerb was one of the very first ships I really wanted to fly in Eve in early '06. It represents the first very long term goal I've accomplished. I think it will be awhile yet until I cross off the last thing on that list - DD a bunch of ships in a Titan. I don't particuarly care who's ships to be honest. I'll be done with eve the moment I that modules fires and causes things to explode. Edit - also, the Drake was already nerfed once (shield recharge went from 1000s base to it's current 1250s base). And the fact that the Drake is almost as good as a NH indicates the NH needs some love. It's freakin' tight on grid and it's even missing a launcher and a mid slot on the Drake. But this is a problem with all the CS' compared to the Tier 2 BC. The CS' were implemented LONG before Tier 2 BC's existed and are unquestionably better than the Tier 1 counterparts.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 06:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Derek Sigres Edit - also, the Drake was already nerfed once (shield recharge went from 1000s base to it's current 1250s base). And the fact that the Drake is almost as good as a NH indicates the NH needs some love. It's freakin' tight on grid and it's even missing a launcher and a mid slot on the Drake. But this is a problem with all the CS' compared to the Tier 2 BC. The CS' were implemented LONG before Tier 2 BC's existed and are unquestionably better than the Tier 1 counterparts. Yeah i agree on your cerb statements but i disagree that the nighthawk has that many issues, all it needs is to be able to fit power diagnostic systems onstead of reactor controls e.g this setup: 6hml II 2 LSE II 1 Invuln hardn 1 em hardn 1 10MN mwd II 2 bcu II 1 pdu II 1 reacor control II 1 dcu II 1 em-screen 1 core defence extender This setup is v. nice but i hate that it requires a reactor control, if it only needed a pdu itd be great. However compared to a drake its really not that special, unless of course, the drake was nerfed. poudly annoying fc's since 2007* The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738

Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.22 07:38:00 - [61] I love the Cerberus. It seriously is my most favorite ship in the game. Which is why I hate to say this, it kinda sucks overall. Can a Cerberus tank? Maybe if it had one more midslot.. right now with 5 mids, nope.. Can a Cerberus gank? Yes, but you are just a Sacrilege but worse.. much worse.. Can a Cerberus nano? Not really, too slow.. though with the speed changes it's not quite the glaring weakness as it is right now on tranq.. I think in small gangs at mid to long range, you can spam missiles at people and kill them fairly well, though as you do with most Caldari ships, need tacklers. The Cerberus only has a few advantages, it's faster than a battleship and can deliver DPS from 100km or further. So if you want a fairly mobile gang of ships that can kill stuff from far away and you got a few ships mixed in to stop people from escaping, the Cerberus is serviceable. I wrote a thread which you can view here. It covers a lot of the problems with the Cerberus. I think the Cerberus needs more grid, have its kinetic bonus changed to all missiles (all caldari ships should get this changed, and possibly low a high slot and get a mid slot, cause there is NOTHING to put in that high slot, there is never enough grid/cpu to fill that slot, NOT EVER. A small nosferatu is generally the BEST you can do sadly. Maybe they could give the Cerberus more grid and another launcher keeping its 6/5/4 layout, that would at least increase the DPS and give it an edge over the Sacrilege (which right now has SO many advantages over the Cerb its not even funny). So is the Cerberus worth training for? If you can accept its weaknesses (which are plentiful) and exploit its strength (long range) then sure. Sadly a Sacrilege with t2 javelin hams can reach almost 90km and do the same DPS as a heavy launcher fit Cerberus though so maybe my long range advantage is moot. Sure javelins slow you down, but you are still faster than a Cerberus usually. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.08.22 07:55:00 - [62] Angelonico - it's not the ship, it's the pilot. Flying Caldari has never been the "fit cookie-cutter fit, undock" like certain other ships. You actually have to use your brain.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.22 08:19:00 - [63] Cerb as anti nano? It is joke. Why? Because: If you fit it anti nano it will has like 200dps with explo velocity 5kmps and about 80km range, so every nano hacs will laugh at that pithifull dmg and just go away or come close and pwn you with like 500+ dps .He will have at least 22k ehp you will have mosly 34k ehp guess who will die first, yeah the cerb, so it isnt good againts nano hacs. If you attack tanked hac or bigger ships 200dps wont even scratch their painting. Now move to ceptors i think every ceptor can go at least 7kmps with only t2 fits+2aux rig without implants or gang bonus. At that speed you will do like 50dps or less , it will has time to go out of range. If he slows down he will die yes but ceptor would die to nearly anything. If it is a little pimped and reach 8kmps then you will do 0 dps awesome.So it isnt good against ceptors. Now dictors , yes it is awesome against dictors the ships which will die to most nano hacs/recons in mere seconds. And will usually just drop a bubble and warp off. So AML cerberus is preaty useless ships in gang. A common t2 fitted vagabond can do the same thing , but with more dmg and point and much better survivability oh and vaga can scout too tackle bses ,cerb cant. HAM cerb: first fitting after you put up 5 hams you will have to put up a reactor controll just to fit LSE + MWD (both are a must have) ,then because your job is to deliver dmg you put up bcu-s. Will have a range of 40km- with 500dps, every nano can evade your dmg , your ship is slow and sluggish, has lol buffer tank,maybe has a point with even worse tank. Sacriliege is much more suited for this. HML cerb: will has like 350dps with 3 bcus and about 180km range but you have to use 2 sensor boosters to reach that distance. Fitting after 5 hml-s will only allow you to fit up a LSE and a MWD without useing fitting mods. So your tank is still crappy ,your speed crappy , your dps is acceptable ,but when enemy going fast 2kmps+ your dps starts drop quickly ,if the enemy is far most of your missiles wont reach the target in time, and if you are close you will be shot down in no time. This is ship is so bad it has no realy useage, you can find better ships easily for doing the job much better. Oh and kinetic dmg worst type of dmg in game. It is only good for shield tanked matar t2 ships, well those will go fast enough to negate your dmg completly. It is usually the most tanked dmg type in game. What I think it should get: more PG and maybe more cpu: it should be able to fit 2 LSE +mwd +5 launchers without fitting mods just like the vagabond with his weapons. give up the stupid kinetic dmg bonus , so missile ships can actually use out the different missile dmg types. Atm you are better off just to load kinetic missile and never change it , it is stupid and boring, and one missile advantage that cant be used out because of bad bonus. Ships which get optimal bonus should also get targeting range bonus within the same bonus like : make all +10% optimal range bonus to +10%optimal range +targeting range bonus. same with missile velocity or fly time bonus too This way these ships could use 1 less sensor boosters which would help them a lot. They are already crippled heavily by fitting for long range. This would help the muninn too.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.22 08:50:00 - [64] Cerberus has plenty of CPU to be honest it's the grid that it lacks.. While Gypsio there will probably disagree with me the Cerberus is weaker than the other HACs mainly because it is much harder to fit and the Sacrilege exists and outshines it completely. You can still be effective in a Cerberus though. I wouldn't say the Cerberus is useless, it does have superior range which can be exploited. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.22 08:58:00 - [65] First: to derek. Sorry I can't post kill mails in this thread - but rest assured i had as surprising amount of success with the standard precision setup. People were stunned I had a web + standards. ONLY SURPRISE kept me alive. Valid anti nano platform - meh. I'd still rather be in a drake or hell, caracal. The cerb simply isn't worth the money. That said, people will fly what they want and I wish them the best of luck. I would rather be in a sacrilege/falcon/curse/drake and can't find many reasons to be in a cerb. Whelp. Good luck and I hope you have more fun with the ship than me. Here's a drake setup as an alternative. My Drake. hi: 7 HAM t2. 1 medium armor repper. med: web/scram/sensorbooster/mwd 1 t2 large extender, 1 t2 invul lo: reactor control, t2 damage control, 2 ballistic controls drones: 5 light ECM Cargo: 600 caldari navy terror, 600 javelin terror, 600 navy torrent, 600 javelin torrent, 3 exotic dancers, 100 nanite paste (overheat your high slots at all times), 1 tobacco, 1 pax amarr whatever, 1 shrike corpse. 500 dps (missile dps is hard to figure, you always hit so add 20%) with 20 km range, 75 with javelin. You have a bc that can a) tackle, b) has a nice buffer tank, c) put out a nice bit of damage, d) hit from 70 out in emergency, and e) jam. Sacrilege: Hi: 5 HAM (500 of each missile, faction and jav of course), 1 caldari navy cloak (20 mil easy and worth the 10% scan res advantage over t2 cloak.) Medium: web/scram/mwd/injector Lo: 2 overdrives, 1 bcu II, 2 t2 medium armor reps Rigs: 2 poly (if you can afford) or 2 aux thrusters. Drones: 3 ecm drones. 3400 m/s, tackling capable, neut resistnat, 450 dps of any damage type, surprisingly massive tank (nano when you need two, flip on 2 mar's when you need to), cap sustainable MWD, and 70 km range. If you want to fly a pimp missile hac, fly a sacrilege. If you want a tank/gank missile boat try that out. Enjoy :) and thanks for the suggestion on the SML cerb derek. Good luck and convo me (angelonico) if you'd like to continue the debate. Cerb setup (anti frig): Hi: 5 standard missile launchers t2 (w/ precison of course) Medium: scram/web/mwd, extender t2, invul t2. Lo: damage control and bcu II's. Rigs: missile precision rigs if you can't afford speed. Cheers all and good luck.
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.08.22 09:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Gypsio III Angelonico - it's not the ship, it's the pilot. Flying Caldari has never been the "fit cookie-cutter fit, undock" like certain other ships. You actually have to use your brain. Pretty much this + you have to step away from your EFT and use the ship in real combat. I outdamaged a maxed out Drake in a gang with my non-maxed out HAM-cerb. I am sure I would have outdamaged a sacri also. Range on close-ranged weapon systems IS important. Those 10 seconds that you need to MWD towards the target in your Drake equal 5000 worth of damage advantage that a Cerb gets over you. Drone damage NEVER equals the EFT figure. Speed of missiles DOES influens your DPS (explained here) Cerb has issues, but it is sure not a "omglol" ship at the moment. You watch him go after the nano nerf - it'll be a blast :) As for Cerb requiring more grid - probably would not happen :( ATM Cerb has just enough grid to fit HML T2 + MWD + 1 LSE T2 without fitting mods. I think this is what was intended by the devs. ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.22 10:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Delichon Originally by: Gypsio III Angelonico - it's not the ship, it's the pilot. Flying Caldari has never been the "fit cookie-cutter fit, undock" like certain other ships. You actually have to use your brain. Pretty much this + you have to step away from your EFT and use the ship in real combat. I outdamaged a maxed out Drake in a gang with my non-maxed out HAM-cerb. I am sure I would have outdamaged a sacri also. Range on close-ranged weapon systems IS important. Those 10 seconds that you need to MWD towards the target in your Drake equal 5000 worth of damage advantage that a Cerb gets over you. Drone damage NEVER equals the EFT figure. Speed of missiles DOES influens your DPS (explained here) Cerb has issues, but it is sure not a "omglol" ship at the moment. You watch him go after the nano nerf - it'll be a blast :) As for Cerb requiring more grid - probably would not happen :( ATM Cerb has just enough grid to fit HML T2 + MWD + 1 LSE T2 without fitting mods. I think this is what was intended by the devs. You can fit a Cerberus for HAML and if you fit kinetics you will do about 500dps and it's not really a bad ship, you will just get vaporized rather quickly because you are as people on the forums like to say, a 'glass cannon'. Maybe after the nano-nerf and if MWD isn't a MUST HAVE module a Cerberus could be more effective.. still, Sacs just pounce all over Cerberus at short range it's not even close. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.08.22 10:09:00 - [68] Edited by: Ruciza on 22/08/2008 10:09:57 The importance of long range weapons is often underestimated.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.08.22 10:24:00 - [69] Quote: While Gypsio there will probably disagree with me the Cerberus is weaker than the other HACs mainly because it is much harder to fit and the Sacrilege exists and outshines it completely. Erm. The problem is that you're comparing ships that are used in completely different roles. So it's difficult to say that the Cerberus is weaker or stronger than the Sac and other HACs. If you take "weaker or stronger" to mean "generally more useful" - thereby implicitly accounting for the different roles that a ship can fulfil, then it gets a bit clearerà but only a bit. The Sacrilege, for example, makes an excellent heavy tackler, and can project DPS out to useful ranges with Jav, but that range still isn't nearly enough for the ewar interdiction role. So all that IÆll say on the Cerberus vs. other HACs comparison is that the utility of the Cerberus depends on the composition and intent of your gang. It may be a niche ship, but it's a useful niche.
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.22 10:24:00 - [70] cerb outdamages rokh from 95km to 249km, go for the 3rd target and it makes a nice alternative to the fleet bs Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers

Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.22 10:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Lt Angus cerb outdamages rokh from 95km to 249km, go for the 3rd target and it makes a nice alternative to the fleet bs Problem here is a cruise missile raven does the same thing but way better, more dps, more buffer tank, can fit neuts/nos, ect ect.. Originally by: Gypsio III Erm. The problem is that you're comparing ships that are used in completely different roles. So it's difficult to say that the Cerberus is weaker or stronger than the Sac and other HACs. If you take "weaker or stronger" to mean "generally more useful" - thereby implicitly accounting for the different roles that a ship can fulfil, then it gets a bit clearerà but only a bit. The Sacrilege, for example, makes an excellent heavy tackler, and can project DPS out to useful ranges with Jav, but that range still isn't nearly enough for the ewar interdiction role. So all that IÆll say on the Cerberus vs. other HACs comparison is that the utility of the Cerberus depends on the composition and intent of your gang. It may be a niche ship, but it's a useful niche. The 'new and improved' Sacrilege pushed it into the niche role, to be honest the other boosts to other HAC and the introduction of nano-warfare didn't help either. The only role a Cerberus really has nowadays is for roaming gangs that rely on long range. I think the Cerberus is a useful ship since it can project damage over a long area and are useful addition to gangs, but yes it is a niche role not a 'rockstar' role. Javelin assault missiles really should get nerfed, 87km on a Sacrilege with javelins, seriously wtf? ------ I'll make a sig later.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Delichon Originally by: Gypsio III Angelonico - it's not the ship, it's the pilot. Flying Caldari has never been the "fit cookie-cutter fit, undock" like certain other ships. You actually have to use your brain. Pretty much this + you have to step away from your EFT and use the ship in real combat. I outdamaged a maxed out Drake in a gang with my non-maxed out HAM-cerb. I am sure I would have outdamaged a sacri also. Range on close-ranged weapon systems IS important. Those 10 seconds that you need to MWD towards the target in your Drake equal 5000 worth of damage advantage that a Cerb gets over you. Drone damage NEVER equals the EFT figure. Speed of missiles DOES influens your DPS (explained here) Cerb has issues, but it is sure not a "omglol" ship at the moment. You watch him go after the nano nerf - it'll be a blast :) As for Cerb requiring more grid - probably would not happen :( ATM Cerb has just enough grid to fit HML T2 + MWD + 1 LSE T2 without fitting mods. I think this is what was intended by the devs. You can fit a Cerberus for HAML and if you fit kinetics you will do about 500dps and it's not really a bad ship, you will just get vaporized rather quickly because you are as people on the forums like to say, a 'glass cannon'. Maybe after the nano-nerf and if MWD isn't a MUST HAVE module a Cerberus could be more effective.. still, Sacs just pounce all over Cerberus at short range it's not even close. MWD will always be amust have mod. MWD mandatory-ness isnt because of the need for spped, but simply because of the need to reproach gates and escpae bubbles in gang situations, if u cant hten the whole gang will wiat for u to slowboat to the gate etc making you a weak chain in the link. So this whole speed nerf will not change the mandatory state of mwd's in medium-big fleets. Though they may be used less in small fleets in low sec etc htat are just floating around and not in a real hurry etc.. poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Lars Lodar Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.22 11:46:00 - [73] As many people have said, the cerb is a good support ship. It can dish out respectable damage and has the range to attack any ship engaged in the fight. I would use it as an anti falcon support. Slap some ECCM and Javelin HAMs and you can effectively keep falcons out off your fleet as well as provide good DPS. If you want an overall effective pvp ship for caldari, the HAM Drake is bar none their best solo/gang ship.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:06:00 - [74] When I am in my Cerb, I switch to my Sac unless its fleet. . .in which case I am either in a Dread or Carrier. . .and those will be Amarr soon too. Sorry, but the cerb is a poor HAC by my standards - and those are that HACs should at least be a little fast, Caldari are simply too slow to keep up. As already said, as a fleet ship its great, but in small gang roles, the Sac is just better. ---- GO BLUE!!
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.22 17:48:00 - [75] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 22/08/2008 17:48:08 Originally by: Lars Lodar As many people have said, the cerb is a good support ship. It can dish out respectable damage and has the range to attack any ship engaged in the fight. I would use it as an anti falcon support. Slap some ECCM and Javelin HAMs and you can effectively keep falcons out off your fleet as well as provide good DPS. If you want an overall effective pvp ship for caldari, the HAM Drake is bar none their best solo/gang ship. It can dish out respectable EFT dps. In real fights if will be much much lower. Just like if you fight in falloff with guns.
Ogier Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.23 00:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky When I am in my Cerb, I switch to my Sac unless its fleet. . .in which case I am either in a Dread or Carrier. . .and those will be Amarr soon too. Sorry, but the cerb is a poor HAC by my standards - and those are that HACs should at least be a little fast, Caldari are simply too slow to keep up. As already said, as a fleet ship its great, but in small gang roles, the Sac is just better. Thus you are never in a Cerb...
Kira Pasisson M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.08.23 08:55:00 - [77] Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 23/08/2008 08:57:55 Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 23/08/2008 08:56:44 its kinda funny that the big role of the cerb was only mentioned slightly in this thread.... i think its a great ship for fleet battles... in a cerb with hml u have better range and the same dps like a standart sniper fitted battleship (when u have decent skills/setups) i know those missiles wont deal instadamage....BUT... in fleet battles it is not that easy to keep an eye on everything that happens (lag+too many hostiles on overview...), therefore many pilots like ecm ships wont even recognize that u are shooting on them... they will when u hit and when u hit once, the incoming damage is nice enough to kill any ecm-ship before it warps (and hurt other support and bs nicely).... so as mentioned here before, the anti-ecm role is very useful. (the eagle will deal instadamage BUT its damage is with spike and good skills far under 50% of the cerb damage... so ecm ships have much more time to warp out... furthermore the ecm ship can jam the eagle and the damage stops, while it will be too late to jam a cerb as too many missiles are already on the way) moreover, the range of the cerb increases it survivability by far...i am sure u will die more often in fleet battle with a drake than with a cerberus (and dont tell me it would be still less money cause all that counts is that u live longer and support ur fleet longer in a cerb) as the blob and big fights are getting more and more usual in everyday pvp, the cerb is getting better! next thing is, when u are on a roam and u find a capital, cerb shines again: it will deal max damage outside the range of even the best neutralizers or warp disruptors (40km)... while not affected by tracking so moving is no prob etc... just btw....with hams the cerb hits 45.6km without imps or rigs, while the sac is at 20.3... so sac will be in scram range, neut range etc... and wont have more damage...(not only in case of a capitals, but in all cases as 20.3 will be in even t2 disruptor range and named large neut range.....) (example, on the bruce ms, our gbc roaming gang killed, 5 of the top ten on the km were cerbs....with hml btw.) so u can consider the cerb as a range-tanking ship, whether using hams or hml, it should be out of tackle range which is useful in all gangs... the cerb is no solo ship unless it is fitted in an extremely expensive way...but there is no solopvp anyway (or at least not much) so summa summarum: 500+ dps with hams at 45.6 km is good for a hac 400+ dps with hm at up to 245km is still good tank? u dont need to tank at 245km, u can warp out.... if u are tackled u will die anyway in gang fights, doesnt matter whether sacri or cerb anti-ecm ability: WOW, no need to nerf falcons i know the drawbacks of the cerb but they are ok as any other ship got them too... drake: inferior range, damage with hams not much better...slower, higher sig, less resistances (btw...this lower sig thingy is very important in fleet battles....).... sacri: same damage, inferior range, better tank, better nano-ability (until the nerf :P) the other things have been discussed here already so the cerb is far from useless and if "cheap" is ur category to choose ships, i know an alliance that suits u well
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.23 09:20:00 - [78] The only thing cerb has over a drake in fleet is it can potentially kill high speed inties. Drake is better for everything else, including anti-nano.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.23 09:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Kira Pasisson Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 23/08/2008 09:11:23 Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 23/08/2008 09:06:58 its kinda funny that the big role of the cerb was only mentioned slightly in this thread.... i think its a great ship for fleet battles... in a cerb with hml u have better range and the same dps like a standart sniper fitted battleship (when u have decent skills/setups) i know those missiles wont deal instadamage....BUT... in fleet battles it is not that easy to keep an eye on everything that happens (lag+too many hostiles on overview...), therefore many pilots like ecm ships wont even recognize that u are shooting on them... they will when u hit and when u hit once, the incoming damage is nice enough to kill any ecm-ship (except scorp :P) before it warps (and hurt other support and bs nicely).... so as mentioned here before, the anti-ecm role is very useful. (the eagle will deal instadamage BUT its damage is with spike and good skills far under 50% of the cerb damage... so ecm ships have much more time to warp out... furthermore the ecm ship can jam the eagle and the damage stops, while it will be too late to jam a cerb as too many missiles are already on the way) moreover, the range of the cerb increases it survivability by far...i am sure u will die more often in fleet battle with a drake than with a cerberus (and dont tell me it would be still less money cause all that counts is that u live longer and support ur fleet longer in a cerb) as the blob and big fights are getting more and more usual in everyday pvp, the cerb is getting better! next thing is, when u are on a roam and u find a capital, cerb shines again: it will deal max damage outside the range of even the best neutralizers or warp disruptors (40km)... while not affected by tracking so moving is no prob etc... just btw....with hams the cerb hits 45.6km without imps or rigs, while the sac is at 20.3... so sac will be in scram range, neut range etc... and wont have more damage...(not only in case of a capitals, but in all cases as 20.3 will be in even t2 disruptor range and named large neut range.....) (example, on the bruce ms, our gbc roaming gang killed, 5 of the top ten on the km were cerbs....with hml btw.) so u can consider the cerb as a range-tanking ship, whether using hams or hml, it should be out of tackle range which is useful in all gangs... the cerb is no solo ship unless it is fitted in an extremely expensive way...but there is no solopvp anyway (or at least not much) so summa summarum: 500+ dps with hams at 45.6 km is good for a hac 400+ dps with hm at up to 245km is still good tank? u dont need to tank at 245km, u can warp out.... if u are tackled u will die anyway in gang fights, doesnt matter whether sacri or cerb anti-ecm ability: WOW, no need to nerf falcons i know the drawbacks of the cerb but they are ok as any other ship got them too... drake: inferior range, damage with hams not much better...slower, higher sig, less resistances (btw...this lower sig thingy is very important in fleet battles....).... eagle: inferior range (or u entirely **** up ur damage), needs to switch ammo (which can be a pain in fleetfights^^), less damage...great for killing hosile tacklers up to dictors sacri: same damage, inferior range, better tank, better nano-ability (until the nerf :P) the other things have been discussed here already so the cerb is far from useless and if "cheap" is ur category to choose ships, i know an alliance that suits u well Only problem is that in this role the Raven really outclasses the Cerberus by a lot. I mean a cruise missile raven can throw down at least 500dps from missiles alone, its missiles go just as far just as fast.. it has a lot more survivability than the Cerberus. I mean really in this role it's just an uninsured Raven that does less DPS.. cruise missiles are almost as effective against cruisers as heavy missiles are these days. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Kira Pasisson M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.08.23 10:40:00 - [80] disagreed @ 2 points first: raven is bs, therefore will be killed by enemy bs therefore a lot less survivability (also cause of much higher sig....) second: role is anti-support and no cruise missiles will do a lot less damage vs cruisers cause of their exp-radius (base: 300m (average cruiser 150)) btw...@ bnc pilot: show me how u get that incredible range on a drake plz

Shaemell Buttleson Celestial Apocalypse The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.23 10:57:00 - [81] Cerbs, Ravens and Drakes were allready pretty decent when used by well skill pilots who knew what they are doing. With the speed changes coming we are going to see far more of them now as well.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.23 12:57:00 - [82] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Cerbs, Ravens and Drakes were allready pretty decent when used by well skill pilots who knew what they are doing. With the speed changes coming we are going to see far more of them now as well. except speed changes (nurf) means missle changes (nurf). . .so don't start counting your hens quite so fast. ---- GO BLUE!!
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.23 13:55:00 - [83] Edited by: Gamesguy on 23/08/2008 14:02:02 Edited by: Gamesguy on 23/08/2008 13:55:07 Originally by: Kira Pasisson disagreed @ 2 points first: raven is bs, therefore will be killed by enemy bs therefore a lot less survivability (also cause of much higher sig....) second: role is anti-support and no cruise missiles will do a lot less damage vs cruisers cause of their exp-radius (base: 300m (average cruiser 150)) btw...@ bnc pilot: show me how u get that incredible range on a drake plz 1. So what? The cerb won't be shot at by anti-support? A BS is superior to a hac if they're accomplishing the same goals, vastly more ehp from the bs ensures this. 2. Cruise with good skills(ie 4) has 240 radius. A falcon has 180 sig radius. The higher dps from the raven makes up for the small damage reduction via sig radius. The range is worthless, any support worth killing with a cerb will be mwding towards you, thus the range is unnecessary. If you really want to play long range anti-support(ie shooting at their eagles and falcons and such that don't come any closer), use a raven. If you want anti-tackling support, use a drake or an eagle.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:25:00 - [84] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 23/08/2008 14:02:02 Edited by: Gamesguy on 23/08/2008 13:55:07 Originally by: Kira Pasisson disagreed @ 2 points first: raven is bs, therefore will be killed by enemy bs therefore a lot less survivability (also cause of much higher sig....) second: role is anti-support and no cruise missiles will do a lot less damage vs cruisers cause of their exp-radius (base: 300m (average cruiser 150)) btw...@ bnc pilot: show me how u get that incredible range on a drake plz 1. So what? The cerb won't be shot at by anti-support? A BS is superior to a hac if they're accomplishing the same goals, vastly more ehp from the bs ensures this. 2. Cruise with good skills(ie 4) has 240 radius. A falcon has 180 sig radius. The higher dps from the raven makes up for the small damage reduction via sig radius. The range is worthless, any support worth killing with a cerb will be mwding towards you, thus the range is unnecessary. If you really want to play long range anti-support(ie shooting at their eagles and falcons and such that don't come any closer), use a raven. If you want anti-tackling support, use a drake or an eagle. Hmm, im more agreeable with kira atm, saying that u shld use a bs over a hac is always pointless, agility, speed, etc make it less viable for the kind of role that the cerb fills. poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Kira Pasisson M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.08.23 19:05:00 - [85] well actually there will be always more enemy-bs than enemy long-range support^^ so still ur survivability sucks.... 240sig -> 180sig = 25% less damage raven with 3bcs and faction cruise (all skills V): 518dps cerb with 3 bcs and faction heavies (all skills V): 394dps ergo: ca. 24% less damage....huh the cerb got 1% more damage on a cruiser, and even more on those who got lower sig-radius than 180... true, if the raven uses em-missiles it got an advantage against falcons again.....but still like i said, survivability in a raven is much lower simply cause of the fact it will be called prinmary at some time due to its bs-status and biggestt is right when he adds agility and stuff...but maybe its just personal preference, some ppl love bs, others do prefer hacs.... btw...afaik i havent seen many ravens with missile speed rigs....but it is often used on fleet-cerbs....so the cerbs' missiles should be faster .... but i guess the bs-hac discussion is not the point in this thread
Galvanized	Posted - 2008.08.23 20:43:00 - [86] Ive bought 2 Cerbs in my 3yrs playing time...every time when it appears in the hangar i think of the Klingons.... and then i think no drones...then i thnk wtf have i bought this for when i could buy an ishtar. I still have it by the way ( one of them anyway ) and havnt even looked at it in a year in the hangar....
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.23 20:55:00 - [87] Cerberuses as PvP ships: viable, not first-choice material. -
Helfix Caldari Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:28:00 - [88] Well it's no solo boat that's for sure. I fly either it or the crow. Your best option is to be at 50-70km distance from engagement and snipe. Even tho there is missile flight time i.e. no instant damage it still is pretty good. Have it nanoed up and aligned. Keep watch on the overview for the pesky people who like to surprise you by poping up on top of you. Nano is there to give you those few secs of extra time to keep distance from target so you can gtfo if it gets too hot. I had "OK" solo work with it but it certainly is no sac by a far margin. If you pick target really smart and be careful not to get "TARPED" you should be ok, but I really like to just keep it in gangs because there is where it really shines. But as always try it out first, You can play around with it on the test serve unless you don't wish to waist isk on TQ like I do -Helfix P.S. Low's 1x OD II 1x Nano Fiber Ii , 2x BCU II and rigs 2x Poly if you have isk.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:35:00 - [89] Originally by: Kira Pasisson well actually there will be always more enemy-bs than enemy long-range support^^ so still ur survivability sucks.... 240sig -> 180sig = 25% less damage raven with 3bcs and faction cruise (all skills V): 518dps cerb with 3 bcs and faction heavies (all skills V): 394dps ergo: ca. 24% less damage....huh the cerb got 1% more damage on a cruiser, and even more on those who got lower sig-radius than 180... true, if the raven uses em-missiles it got an advantage against falcons again.....but still like i said, survivability in a raven is much lower simply cause of the fact it will be called prinmary at some time due to its bs-status and biggestt is right when he adds agility and stuff...but maybe its just personal preference, some ppl love bs, others do prefer hacs.... btw...afaik i havent seen many ravens with missile speed rigs....but it is often used on fleet-cerbs....so the cerbs' missiles should be faster .... but i guess the bs-hac discussion is not the point in this thread And then you throw in a couple of cheap explosion radius rigs and the raven now heavilly outdps the cerb. EM is an excellent damage type in anti-support because nobody tanks a fleet ship, and EM damage is king against untanked ships(barring minmatar t2). You can't use that logic. If you use that logic no one would ever bring any BS because they would always be primary. The side that brings more BS has an advantage for a reason. More BS is always better. Especially since the raven will be competing with the cerb for the same role. Speed agility etc don't matter in fleet. You should be aligned regardless.
Kira Pasisson M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.08.24 08:18:00 - [90] Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 24/08/2008 08:21:13 well m8 like i said, its about personal preference....both, raven and cerberus are good to use for this role....i understand ur part of bs-logic...but still, both have slight advantages/disadvantages over each other....and furthermore, i thought in fleet battle ppl fit extender rigs on their caldari bs.... moreover its also about skills, some ppl prefer bs and some hacs in general... therefore their skills are specced (or should be especially for younger players....i am playing eve since two years and i am not yet finished with caldari t2 ships...no time for bs or other races and i skilled nothing but pvp)....so i would say good skilled pilots are useful in both ships.... finally, that battleships are nowadays (and especially after the speed nerf) always first choice is a sad thing and unfortunately reduces game-tactics and similar things to a brute-force-blob-policy....but that is again not topic here :)



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