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Why we need a SIGNIFICANT nerf on lvl4s in hisec.

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Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:39:00 - [451] Originally by: Drunk Driver THIS PIRATE REVENGE THREAD IS NUCLEAR POWERED! . THIS BUM REPLY POST IS POWERED BY EXCREMENT! Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:39:00 - [452] Originally by: Gamesguy Fail. Do you realize how many years of whining and thousands of threads was required before ccp finally buffed amarr? I fully expect ccp to nerf missions given enough whining about it, like how they nerfed titans, nanos, suicide ganking(which took what? 4 years of whining?), stabs, ECM, nos, etc. CCP has shown that with enough whining they will make changes. So as long as we keep whining about L4s ccp will eventually nerf them. i remember when you guys used to actually speak on the forums with a moderate amount of intelligence. you hate ccp so much now that they've made you play by the rules that you're willing to state they run the game simply based upon the frequency and quantity of whines on a given subject? i'd go so far as to say that if a vast majority of the game decided something needed to be nerfed, that they'd find a way to make a semi-balanced change that compromised with the majority interest. but there's not even close to a majority interest in nerfing L4s, quite the opposite. many of your own alliance use alts to make isk with missions, especially when you guys were getting spanked all over the galaxy. you guys should be well versed in the art of failure, though. i'll give you that much. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Kwedaras Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:54:00 - [453] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette What? How the hell do you know what I want or how I think? I said, the problem for ME - meaning as I SEE IT - is that high sec has too big rewards in contrast to the risk taken. This I see as an imbalance. That's why I want it nerfed. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME WANTING ANYONE TO PLAY LIKE I DO. I run missions in high sec. Why the hell would I want them nerfed if I want everyone to run missions in high sec? No, you are just suffering from the common delusion that everyone that wants high sec missions nerfed just wants to gank you in low sec. SNAP OUT OF IT! THAT'S NOT WHY WE WANT THIS NERF! Shh, It is alright you do not have to scream. The fact is I have lived in 0.0 and in Empire. I have done L4 Missions, Ratting, Mining, Complexes and I have shot at targets in Lowsec as well as 0.0. I know what I am talking about. The whole concept of risk vs. reward is flawed from start. In reality it was always more like effort vs. reward. Until a year ago, owning certain T2 BPO was practically a license to print isk? Where was the risk in that. If you are in a real big 0.0 alliance, with more capital ships then all your concurrents combined and you have secured the most profitable moons, then reward also far outweighs the risk. People always played the game in a way to maximise reward and minimising the risk. To come back to L4. The missions do not have much risk, but also the reward is at best mediocre if you do not have Multi-Billion ISK Ship. There are lots of activities in EVE that are a lot more profitable. If you cannot see them and continue to repeat the flawed argument of risk vs. reward, then nothing can help you. Please leave the game and whine on the Funcom Boards. Thank you. yes, t2 bpos was and is(on some bpos) riskless isk printing machine. the lottery was total BS because some noob with crap agent and crap skills could won a ship bpo instantly, while players who devoted many sps in skills and was doing missions every day got nothing for years. You might notice i used word "was". Yes, lottery got nerfed, invention was introduced. removing all t2 bpos would have been quite a shock to some players, as they have paid money (bought) bpos. so i understand ccps policy to let them be in game. As for 0.0 example, this argument was discussed countless times. You see, to run lvl4s and get nice rewards and be immune to all hazards takes what, one single person? Now we look at 0.0: to get the best capital fleet and secure best moons takes what ? effort of a 2-3k people ? oh and try to split those moons among every member, you will get less than our casual mission runner. Also, if they have the best fleet in the game it means that they have worked hard. management worked good to recuit many pilots who are not afraid to fight, industrialist did a good job to build a ship for every one. leaders and fcs did a good job to outsmart opposing force. Sure, there are better isk yielding activities in EVE than mission running, but in most cases you have to fight over limited resurces. Only missions give you 100% unlimited and safe isk.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:58:00 - [454] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Drunk Driver THIS PIRATE REVENGE THREAD IS NUCLEAR POWERED! . THIS BUM REPLY POST IS POWERED BY EXCREMENT! Uh oh. I've pointed out the obvious nature of this thread and have made Ruze angry. Oh my... .
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:04:00 - [455] Originally by: Drunk Driver Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Drunk Driver THIS PIRATE REVENGE THREAD IS NUCLEAR POWERED! . THIS BUM REPLY POST IS POWERED BY EXCREMENT! Uh oh. I've pointed out the obvious nature of this thread and have made Ruze angry. Oh my... . Considering my post got edited and yours didn't, I think I won that bout. Nana-nana-boo-boo! Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:08:00 - [456] Edited by: Duncan MacPherson on 25/08/2008 16:08:57 This thread is full of Win! Lets all whine and complain about what other people do. Waaaaa Waaaaa Oh lets resort to calling people names because of what they choose to do in a game. Waaaaa Waaaaa Oh lets tell people they have to play a game like they do otherwise we will whine and call them names! Waaaaa Waaaaa You guys really are great. I keep refreshing this thread to hear more whines and watch more childish posts pop up. Its great. I think its fantastic that people find it so threatening that I made 30mil this weekend from doing a few level 4s. Its so awesome. Like I said - this thread is filled with win! sits back and eats some popcorn
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:18:00 - [457] Originally by: Duncan MacPherson Edited by: Duncan MacPherson on 25/08/2008 16:08:57 This thread is full of Win! Lets all whine and complain about what other people do. Waaaaa Waaaaa Oh lets resort to calling people names because of what they choose to do in a game. Waaaaa Waaaaa Oh lets tell people they have to play a game like they do otherwise we will whine and call them names! Waaaaa Waaaaa You guys really are great. I keep refreshing this thread to hear more whines and watch more childish posts pop up. Its great. I think its fantastic that people find it so threatening that I made 30mil this weekend from doing a few level 4s. Its so awesome. Like I said - this thread is filled with win! sits back and eats some popcorn I keep refreshing this thread for the very same reason as you. And you have lived up to everyone's expectation of what this post should contain. Congratulation! You are now an official member of this threads community! Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:30:00 - [458] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon 15 Pages of whines in a forum that is full of whines and you have not responded to a single argument and instead called me a nitwit, because I have not read all of these whines. Ok, I think it is safe to call you a troll. Have you considered a therapy for your problems with anger managment? Did you just read the nitwit part? I called you a nitwit because all your arguments have been answered over and over and over and over and over and over again. Each time some new clueless nitwit walzes into this thread and starts spewing the same flawed arguments, people like me have to sit and counter them. Each and every time. I'm frankly getting a bit tired of people who can't be bothered to read the thread and see if what they thought was clever enough to post has already been posted and debunked.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:31:00 - [459] Pirate revenge thread.......... .
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:32:00 - [460] Originally by: Ruze I keep refreshing this thread for the very same reason as you. And you have lived up to everyone's expectation of what this post should contain. Congratulation! You are now an official member of this threads community! I love your signature. It says so much about you. It also tells me how much I should care about anything you say. lol.... I feel sorry for you that you care so much how others play this game. In fact how the majority of the players play this game. Drives ya nuts doesn't it. wink
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:34:00 - [461] Originally by: Drunk Driver Pirate revenge thread.......... . Only if by 'pirate' you mean level 4 mission runner, and by 'revenge' you mean trying to discuss a perceived imbalance in the game. And by 'thread' you mean ... well specific forum topic. If that's your definition, than you sir are 100% correct! Congratulations! Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:36:00 - [462] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Drunk Driver Pirate revenge thread.......... . Only if by 'pirate' you mean level 4 mission runner, and by 'revenge' you mean trying to discuss a perceived imbalance in the game. And by 'thread' you mean ... well specific forum topic. If that's your definition, than you sir are 100% correct! Congratulations! Pirate revenge thread...... .
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:37:00 - [463] Originally by: Duncan MacPherson Originally by: Ruze I keep refreshing this thread for the very same reason as you. And you have lived up to everyone's expectation of what this post should contain. Congratulation! You are now an official member of this threads community! I love your signature. It says so much about you. It also tells me how much I should care about anything you say. lol.... I feel sorry for you that you care so much how others play this game. In fact how the majority of the players play this game. Drives ya nuts doesn't it. wink You should read my other replies in the many other topics discussing this same thing. They say a lot about me, too. Taken together, they would imply that I have split personalities and cannot make up my mind on whether I support any one given side. The signature is just a goad. A great one, too. Garners all kinds of fun comments Disagreeing with someone is cool. Having differing points of view is cool. Posting with long 'whaaaas' and whines, and in said post complaining about the maturity and intelligence of the other posters? Not cool, dude. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Taco Raptorian Burning Steel Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:43:00 - [464] How some people whine about how others play I can agree is just pathetic and none of their business. What is everyones business is that the game is fun because otherwise we wouldn't play it. At least I wouldn't. What is fun is different for each person and maybe from day to day. Just because you love the current state of L4 missions and that is what you do to get your isk doesn't mean everyone else does as well. It's just bad manners to sit on your "high spaceships" and laugh at others less fortunate.
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:02:00 - [465] I guess what really annoys the heck outta me is people touting all the high and mighty lvl 4 mission runners. They just sit in high space and print out isk by the bucket loads. Not all of us are like that and looking at the average number of SPs pilots have, most regular pilots doing missions aren't like that. Myself I have alot of SPs since I have been playing awhile. I have done just about everything in this game. I run level 4s. In fact I did alot of lvl 4s this weekend. All and all I think I made about 30-50mil. Is that really so ground breaking - does me making 30-50 mil in a weekend totally ruin everyone else's game? Please explain to me how it does. Cause if it does ruin yall's game I can certainly pack it up and just bring out my two hulks and make hundreds of millions in a weekend. If that's what you guys would prefer please let me know. While your at it since I am offering to correct the way I play the game since it effects yours, I would like all old large alliances to go ahead and give up some of their space in low sec and null space. I honestly think its pretty wrong that my gameplay is directly effected because I can not summon hundreds of capital ships to dig out these old alliances that will never leave. If you don't want us to stay in high sec and we can't move the old groups out of low sec/null space what are the small coprs/alliances supposed to do? Or am I to just load up a hauler with all my stuff and fly around until a blob finds me and nukes me? Please help me understand how I (a lvl 4 mission runner) has ruined yall's game play or I am the cause of the downfall of EvE.
Recordable disc Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:16:00 - [466] ...and what was the BIG risk on this one? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=853973 Double standards imo
Kwedaras Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:21:00 - [467] Edited by: Kwedaras on 25/08/2008 17:26:12 Originally by: Recordable disc ...and what was the BIG risk on this one? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=853973 Double standards imo actually, killing him involved no risk. i was lucky he was stupid enough to undock. the real risk would have been after the kill. I was station camped for sever hours, but decided to use nice tactic which is used by people who avoid combat. Thanks to npc corps. yes, there are another threads how wardec system is broken, you can discuss there.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:01:00 - [468] Originally by: Duncan MacPherson I run level 4s. In fact I did alot of lvl 4s this weekend. All and all I think I made about 30-50mil. Is that really so ground breaking - does me making 30-50 mil in a weekend totally ruin everyone else's game? Please explain to me how it does. I got to go with this guy. I have a high quality level 4 agent in High Sec. I do not run a lot of level 4 missions on weekends. I can do maybe one or two a day before I got friggen bananas. Out of those two, if I am lucky and pull the really good missions, I can make about 40 million isk from bounties, loot and salvage. If my missions get nerfed I'll just train up this here little woman to do mining and make my isk that way. A bunch of friggen whinny little babies in this game. Mom! Mistress is making more isk then I am! Make it so she doesn't! And while you're at it put her in the backyard so I can kick sand done her panties! If there were more people in this game the forums would be more entertaining then the game itself.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:07:00 - [469] Originally by: Mistress Evita Originally by: Duncan MacPherson I run level 4s. In fact I did alot of lvl 4s this weekend. All and all I think I made about 30-50mil. Is that really so ground breaking - does me making 30-50 mil in a weekend totally ruin everyone else's game? Please explain to me how it does. I got to go with this guy. I have a high quality level 4 agent in High Sec. I do not run a lot of level 4 missions on weekends. I can do maybe one or two a day before I got friggen bananas. Out of those two, if I am lucky and pull the really good missions, I can make about 40 million isk from bounties, loot and salvage. If my missions get nerfed I'll just train up this here little woman to do mining and make my isk that way. A bunch of friggen whinny little babies in this game. Mom! Mistress is making more isk then I am! Make it so she doesn't! And while you're at it put her in the backyard so I can kick sand done her panties! If there were more people in this game the forums would be more entertaining then the game itself. Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny? You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission whres', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining. What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book. Quote:* If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:16:00 - [470] Originally by: Ruze Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny? You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission wh*res', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining. What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book. Both groups of people are equally annoying and idiotic. I may be a care bear empire hugger.. but the first thing I did in this game was learn how to PVP. Skill up for pvp skills/ships/mods. Its no secret that CCP made this a PVP game first and foremost. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes this and needs to adjust for it. But the other side of the coin people need to realize the majority of the people who play MMOs, any MMOs, do so as a PVE player. CCP has to cater to these people if they want people to play. The PVP crowd shouts nerf PVE and all it does is show them for the dolts they are.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:21:00 - [471] Originally by: Duncan MacPherson Originally by: Ruze Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny? You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission whres', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining. What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book. Both groups of people are equally annoying and idiotic. I may be a care bear empire hugger.. but the first thing I did in this game was learn how to PVP. Skill up for pvp skills/ships/mods. Its no secret that CCP made this a PVP game first and foremost. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes this and needs to adjust for it. But the other side of the coin people need to realize the majority of the people who play MMOs, any MMOs, do so as a PVE player. CCP has to cater to these people if they want people to play. The PVP crowd shouts nerf PVE and all it does is show them for the dolts they are. I find it funny, taking the current 'nerf level 4s' topic ... the posts where I side with the 'leave carebears alone' argument, the post lasts, at most, five or six pages. But no, when I'm siding with the 'nerf carebears' crowd, it goes on for 20 pages. What the hell? Quote:* If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Taco Raptorian Burning Steel Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:21:00 - [472] Originally by: Mistress Evita Originally by: Duncan MacPherson I run level 4s. In fact I did alot of lvl 4s this weekend. All and all I think I made about 30-50mil. Is that really so ground breaking - does me making 30-50 mil in a weekend totally ruin everyone else's game? Please explain to me how it does. I got to go with this guy. I have a high quality level 4 agent in High Sec. I do not run a lot of level 4 missions on weekends. I can do maybe one or two a day before I got friggen bananas. Out of those two, if I am lucky and pull the really good missions, I can make about 40 million isk from bounties, loot and salvage. If my missions get nerfed I'll just train up this here little woman to do mining and make my isk that way. A bunch of friggen whinny little babies in this game. Mom! Mistress is making more isk then I am! Make it so she doesn't! And while you're at it put her in the backyard so I can kick sand done her panties! If there were more people in this game the forums would be more entertaining then the game itself. It is the relative difference to others that is the big thing. You are forced to do this or else suffer the consequences of bad income. I am speaking about my own point of view in low sec. If you "only" make 30-50 mil in a weekend I have a hard time countering that because I happen to live in another place in space. Yes I have chosen to live there but still shouldn't I be able to compete since we are actually playing the same game? Do we all have to do the same thing to be on equal terms? What we can do in this game is unfortunately run by our wallets. ---
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:38:00 - [473] Originally by: Taco Raptorian It is the relative difference to others that is the big thing. You are forced to do this or else suffer the consequences of bad income. I am speaking about my own point of view in low sec. If you "only" make 30-50 mil in a weekend I have a hard time countering that because I happen to live in another place in space. Yes I have chosen to live there but still shouldn't I be able to compete since we are actually playing the same game? Do we all have to do the same thing to be on equal terms? What we can do in this game is unfortunately run by our wallets. --- and a month ago I was in a .3 system - fought a True Sans and got a BPC drop worth about 250 mil. Nerf Low Sec! All those guys making money down there.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:01:00 - [474] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Duncan MacPherson Originally by: Ruze Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny? You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission wh*res', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining. What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book. Both groups of people are equally annoying and idiotic. I may be a care bear empire hugger.. but the first thing I did in this game was learn how to PVP. Skill up for pvp skills/ships/mods. Its no secret that CCP made this a PVP game first and foremost. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes this and needs to adjust for it. But the other side of the coin people need to realize the majority of the people who play MMOs, any MMOs, do so as a PVE player. CCP has to cater to these people if they want people to play. The PVP crowd shouts nerf PVE and all it does is show them for the dolts they are. I find it funny, taking the current 'nerf level 4s' topic ... the posts where I side with the 'leave carebears alone' argument, the post lasts, at most, five or six pages. But no, when I'm siding with the 'nerf carebears' crowd, it goes on for 20 pages. What the hell? You might want to read the post you just quoted. It has the answer. .
Mordican	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:43:00 - [475] Shard the server? Carebear Server - anything currently lowsec status converts to 0.5 status. Chop Nullsec in half and convert it to the new Lowsec. Extend Concord to 0.1 systems, but delay their response time considerably in the 0.1 systems. 0.0 politics remain as they are. Security restrictions still will not let pirates into Highsec level space. Main Server - Leave it the way it is.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:15:00 - [476] Originally by: Ruze Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny? You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission wh*res', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining. What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book. I could but I would have to use the character I PvP with. Then I would get confused and and make fun of the wrong group thereby causing the heat death of the universe. And we sure has heck don't want that! Either way CCP will decide what is best for the game based on what CCP thinks is best for the game and not what a subset of users thinks is best for their game. I am fairly certain that the people at CCP are in this to make money. To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game. But what do I know. I'm just someone who plays an internet spaceship game at night.
Dave Davies	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:27:00 - [477] Originally by: Mistress Evita To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game. Here's where that mobius strip goes: Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content. The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it. ----- Pop Quiz ----- Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence.
Aria Seniste	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:32:00 - [478] Originally by: Dave Davies Originally by: Mistress Evita To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game. Here's where that mobius strip goes: Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content. The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it. It's not the best ISK. It's just what happens when you, rather than making your own path, keep talking to agents and waiting for the NPCs to guide you on into greatness.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:42:00 - [479] Originally by: Dave Davies The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content. The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it. Not sure if this is going to come across correctly but here goes: Eve Online is an established MMO. It has a user base that is not getting smaller but is getting bigger, slowly. It seems to be making money (profit) or else the game would have been shut down a long time ago. It would seem to me (and I sure has heck a lot of times don't know what I am talking about) that a company would not want to radically change a major part of the game on a whim. Level 4 missions in high sec are a major part of the game. The people in charge of the game would want to be able to provide the people who run these level 4 missions with another way of making isk in high sec. If they didn't do this they would need to be able to replace the lost users with other users who wouldn't mind the loss of high isk level 4 missions. How to do that I have no clue (if I did I would be working for CCP right now). But saying to just reduce the payout from the Level 4 missions or telling CCP to move all level 4 agents out to low sec aint going to cut it from a business point of view.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:43:00 - [480] I'm still not convinced that 'mission runners' make up the 'majority of users'. At least, my definitions are different for each. By 'mission runners', we don't include all hisec occupants. So very many of those hisec occupants are traders, or industrialists. On the other hand, the phrase 'mission runners' includes those who do only missions for the sake of enjoying doing missions, as well as those who live in other parts of the universe (as well as hisec) who do missions for the sake of making money. Who's to say what group is the majority of users? The only sort of 'facts' I've seen was a release by CCP stating that nearly 50% of the playerbase spends the majority of their time in hisec. This could be read in many different ways, and takes into account many hisec activities that have nothing to do with missions, including hisec war decs and theft. The further problem is dictated that hisec doesn't mean 'PvE', as EvE provides numerous ways to have regular combat PvP in hisec, include pirate hunting, war decs, mercenary actions, theft prevention, and suicides. Finally, we go into the mindset (one you'll notice is common with nearly every soul be they thinking of politics or video games) where we assume that our viewpoint is the 'majority'. We look around, and we make slight assumptions that help us justify that everyone believes as we do, and only very few disagree. We KNOW this, because everyone we ever talk to agrees with that (whereas we're not taking into account that we naturally associate with those of like interests, and with those who we have a tendancy to agree with). Thus, I don't think CCP should 'cater' to any group of players. I don't think there are more pure carebears than pure pvpers. If anything, I would be sorely surprised if these groups werent equal. At most, I would be safe in assuming that the vast 'majority' of players take part in many levels of activity, and that if a change was made to one specific area of gameplay (read 'suicide attacks' or 'nanos' or 'level 4 hisec missions'), it would cause only minor disturbances before the average user moves on and adapts. Don't convince yourself that those who you disagree with must be a small group of people, simply because you see your own logic as infallible. And never assume you are the majority. Because life has a way of showing you just how lonely your particular ideals really are. That's a life lesson too. If only more American's would learn it. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.

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