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Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:31:00 - [31] General Disco has always been full of gibberish.
TwoShoes	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Drunk Driver All the mission nerf noise is revenge against carebears for the Empire security adjustments. It's not hard to figure out. Exactly. And it's completely misguided. The way to encourage more PVP is to make the grind less of a chore. That's right, double the income of PVE = less time needed to grind = more isk to burn on PVP. Or another approach cut the build cost of all ships in half. Twice the bang for your buck. Double pew pew !
Ilya Murametz Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:39:00 - [33] Originally by: Thea Arsoniztik Knock Knock.... Who there..
Ilya Murametz Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Lemptie do da wiel Lol, thats awesome
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Xevan Templar As much as I agree, you only need a few braincells to see it. I wouldn't be worried by it. If we can see through it, so can CCP. I am very sure (certain in fact) that CCP constantly mine the game database to see what the players are up to. Doubtless the figures are subject to interpretation but they have plenty of information and more experience than most of us. Given the nature of these forums I doubt they pay them much heed. They might occasionally point them to a problem area but they will investigate the alleged problem themselves and decide what if anything to do about it. The days when the forums were a useful communication conduit are sadly long gone. Now they are just entertaining..on a rare good day -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Atlas Oracle Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Lemptie do da wiel Lol, thats awesome ohnoes, i spun "i'm qutting" on the wheel. no you cannot have my stuffs
Anndarra Winge	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Thea Arsoniztik Knock Knock.... Who there.. NERF SHUTTLES!!!!11!!!
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:57:00 - [38] I think the forum goers observed what happened to the whole nano deal. They witnessed a massive amount of complaints, followed by action taken by CCP. I think they believe they now have control, if there loud enough, to change the game. Person1: Hey, we got them to change nano's, why not see if we can this. Person2~1000: He's got a point And then the threads begin. Whether CCP actually balances/fixes/nerfs due to legitimate reasons is why they are the devs, and were are the ordinary.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Ghoest When people were upset about nerfing high sec missions - at least there was an issue. Now we are back to a small minority of vocal forum players trying to make it look like there is a popular opinion in favor of not nerfing nanos. See what I did there? C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:59:00 - [40] Amazing how "nano nerf whiners" where whining for a valid point but "level 4 whiners" aren't. You seem very determined in your view on this. Could it be because you are biased beyond words?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 17:19:00 - [41] Originally by: TwoShoes Originally by: Drunk Driver All the mission nerf noise is revenge against carebears for the Empire security adjustments. It's not hard to figure out. Exactly. And it's completely misguided. The way to encourage more PVP is to make the grind less of a chore. That's right, double the income of PVE = less time needed to grind = more isk to burn on PVP. Or another approach cut the build cost of all ships in half. Twice the bang for your buck. Double pew pew ! This man has a point. And what is the point? Well, many of those who have made their own post about, or replied in favor of, nerfing hisec, have specifically mentioned the VALUE of PvP losses being one of the main undermining factors of suggesting said changes. What the hell does that mean? It means, nerfing hisec will take us farther away from CounterStrike and WoW, and closer to being able to noticably affect others. If they have less means of quickly replenishing their ships and equipment, you can actually STOP those pirates from coming back! Well, that's actually best case scenario. More than likely you're going to get your but kicked, cause you spent the last six months preaching in the newbie corp about how PvP was ebil and nobody can force you to do anything, and you don't know slick snot about hwo to actually defend yourself. But that wouldn't change if CCP gave you an insta-respawn, either. You'd still have the mindset of a victim. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.26 17:25:00 - [42] Originally by: TwoShoes The way to encourage more PVP is to make the grind less of a chore. That's right, double the income of PVE = less time needed to grind = more isk to burn on PVP. This entirely hinges on the assumption that all PvE is used to pay for PvP. I'm not entirely convinced that's the case…
hodgebobble	Posted - 2008.08.26 17:27:00 - [43] It's you. You're the one who is a joke.
Ilya Murametz Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:12:00 - [44] Originally by: Anndarra Winge Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Thea Arsoniztik Knock Knock.... Who there.. NERF SHUTTLES!!!!11!!! NERF SHUTTLES!!!!11!!! Who?
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:18:00 - [45] Originally by: Abrazzar Again? Was it ever serious? well said. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:20:00 - [46] GD was never serious. Assumption of Risk
Takon Orlani Caldari Chaos Monkeys Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:20:00 - [47] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Anndarra Winge Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Thea Arsoniztik Knock Knock.... Who there.. NERF SHUTTLES!!!!11!!! NERF SHUTTLES!!!!11!!! Who? NERF SHUTTLES, MORE TURRET SLOTS FOR INDYS!!11
Jeanne D'Eve Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:50:00 - [48] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Xevan Templar As much as I agree, you only need a few braincells to see it. I wouldn't be worried by it. If we can see through it, so can CCP. I am very sure (certain in fact) that CCP constantly mine the game database to see what the players are up to. Doubtless the figures are subject to interpretation but they have plenty of information and more experience than most of us. Given the nature of these forums I doubt they pay them much heed. They might occasionally point them to a problem area but they will investigate the alleged problem themselves and decide what if anything to do about it. Exactly. Whatever the original developers intentions, EVE is a business now, with lots of CCP employees depending on it's success to pay rent, mortgates, school loans etc. They will try to find a reasonable middle ground on all these game issues to keep all subscribers. But if they must take a side, it will be the side with the most subscribers. And you can be sure they have an accountant and game statisticians to tell them who is making them the most money. So if you love this game like you all claim, find a way to give them that middle ground. jd
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:02:00 - [49] Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Xevan Templar As much as I agree, you only need a few braincells to see it. I wouldn't be worried by it. If we can see through it, so can CCP. I am very sure (certain in fact) that CCP constantly mine the game database to see what the players are up to. Doubtless the figures are subject to interpretation but they have plenty of information and more experience than most of us. Given the nature of these forums I doubt they pay them much heed. They might occasionally point them to a problem area but they will investigate the alleged problem themselves and decide what if anything to do about it. Exactly. Whatever the original developers intentions, EVE is a business now, with lots of CCP employees depending on it's success to pay rent, mortgates, school loans etc. They will try to find a reasonable middle ground on all these game issues to keep all subscribers. But if they must take a side, it will be the side with the most subscribers. And you can be sure they have an accountant and game statisticians to tell them who is making them the most money. So if you love this game like you all claim, find a way to give them that middle ground. jd I hate when people bring up this reasoning, simply because I have watched many development companies use the exact same mindset and ruin their companies. There is another marketing strategy for a business, called 'niche market' in the video game world, or 'specialized marketing' with other businesses. In the purest sense, they appeal to a smaller customer base, and profit from providing what others cannot. This takes many forms, including producing an above-average quality product, to marketing a product that is not readily available to customers. Take a few examples: When you think of find dining, do you think McDonalds? Or do you think of that uptown resteraunt in the center of D.C. with chauffeurs and the black-tie dress code? How many 'McDonalds' copies are there in the world, businesses that aren't exactly keeping up, who aren't really pulling in the consumers? Now, don't get this wrong. Specialty businesses die out each day as well. And many chain-stores started small. But as it is, EvE is currently marketing a more expensive product to a smaller audience, an audience that has not only proved loyal for the last five years, but has slowly and steadily gotten larger. This is also a similar audience that buys multiple accounts, and seems willing to pay that $15 a month or 30 or 45. So while 'mass marketing' may seem like the win win to the simple-minded, it only works in very few instances. Specialty marketing is much more profitable and reliable for smaller businesses, as long as customer interest is maintained in the product. And I hate to say, but yes, CCP could market to a less reliable but broader customer base by leaning more towards the PvE community. And they would face a sharp rise in consumer base, and then a steady decrease with the release of every game that does that exact same thing. Every AOC, every WoW, every SWG ... players gone, because those subscribers you mention are the same ones with a three-month maximum attention span. Meanwhile, you have a quality product with a unique concept in the game world, combining some of the best elements of the old 'sandbox' style that game designers are so afraid of nowadays, and supposedly about to add many PVE aspects (more detailed missions, ambulation). Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:27:00 - [50] Edited by: Kelli Flay on 26/08/2008 19:27:24 Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Amazing how "nano nerf whiners" where whining for a valid point but "level 4 whiners" aren't. You seem very determined in your view on this. Could it be because you are biased beyond words? Except the speeds reached through Nano setups were not what the devs intended when they created the game. The amounts of mission pay, LPs ect from lvl4 high sec agents are what the devs intended since they are the ones who set those parameters. Guess that blows your whole stupid and sarcastic statement out of the water?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:35:00 - [51] Edited by: Ruze on 26/08/2008 19:35:42 Originally by: Kelli Flay Edited by: Kelli Flay on 26/08/2008 19:27:24 Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Amazing how "nano nerf whiners" where whining for a valid point but "level 4 whiners" aren't. You seem very determined in your view on this. Could it be because you are biased beyond words? Except the speeds reached through Nano setups were not what the devs intended when they created the game. The amounts of mission pay, LPs ect from lvl4 high sec agents are what the devs intended since they are the ones who set those parameters. Guess that blows your whole stupid and sarcastic statement out of the water? Actually, everyone thought that the speeds reached WERE intended until they released a dev blog about it. Well, not everyone, because some players posted complaints, while many others were saying 'this is how it is designed to be used, deal.' And truthfully, who's to say they weren't intended up until that morning before the post? They could have been a mechanic functioning 'as designed' all the way up until they decided to change it, who knows. Same goes for mission running. Who, besides a developer, can honestly say that current mission rewards are balanced, and are intended? Seems to me that these developers can't predict every use of their code, and are also not omnipotent gods with the ability to see every reaction of every coding choice. As such, sometimes things work, and they leave it be. And then later, when presented with evidence (or at lease, well thought out skepticism), they may revise their 'as intended' philosophy. Because if everything already in game is 'as intended', then why are the developers constantly tweaking and adjusting their code? Why do we keep receiving new patches, and do they announce a new 'fix' about once a month over the past five years? Could it not be that 'as intended' is a motto for a moment, and not a rule of eternity? Is your battleship sinking yet? Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: TwoShoes Originally by: Drunk Driver All the mission nerf noise is revenge against carebears for the Empire security adjustments. It's not hard to figure out. Exactly. And it's completely misguided. The way to encourage more PVP is to make the grind less of a chore. That's right, double the income of PVE = less time needed to grind = more isk to burn on PVP. Or another approach cut the build cost of all ships in half. Twice the bang for your buck. Double pew pew ! This man has a point. And what is the point? Well, many of those who have made their own post about, or replied in favor of, nerfing hisec, have specifically mentioned the VALUE of PvP losses being one of the main undermining factors of suggesting said changes. What the hell does that mean? It means, nerfing hisec will take us farther away from CounterStrike and WoW, and closer to being able to noticably affect others. If they have less means of quickly replenishing their ships and equipment, you can actually STOP those pirates from coming back! Well, that's actually best case scenario. More than likely you're going to get your but kicked, cause you spent the last six months preaching in the newbie corp about how PvP was ebil and nobody can force you to do anything, and you don't know slick snot about hwo to actually defend yourself. But that wouldn't change if CCP gave you an insta-respawn, either. You'd still have the mindset of a victim. I have the mindset of someone that's tired of this kind of convoluted warped logic that's meant to do nothing more than provide pirates with more targets. Fail.... .
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Akita T Boe-hoe, I'm too chicken to even try lowsec/0.0, can't be bothered to team up with other people to do it, and too insignifiant/worthless/lazy to join an alliance or even rent space from a big 0.0 power bloc. But I DEMAND the same level of reward like the people who bothered doing all of the above. Fear me, I am subscription payer supreme, my wallet is the law ! First off it boo hoo and second not everyone wants to deal with the bullshit that ALWAYS goes along with Corps and Alliances. Another thing exactly what space does your corp hold...lol. -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Ruze All the other good nerf arguments had already been had. The 'nerf pirates' and the 'nerf pvp' and the 'nerf chocolate' and the 'nerf minmatar'. What else did you expect us to talk about? You, sir, need to be taken outside, preferrably behind the bike sheds, and sound beaten. How can you mention nerfing chocolate. Those of us with a wife or a girlfriend in our lives know that chocolate is a basic necessity for a sane life. You need to seriously remove any mention, ever, of nerfing chocolate. Chocolate is the one sane and useful thing in this universe!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:43:00 - [55] Originally by: Ruze Actually, everyone thought that the speeds reached WERE intended until they released a dev blog about it. No, lots and lots of people knew thew weren't intended because they lived through the removal of multiple MWD's/afterburners for pretty much the same reasons. It was clear that the level of speed tanking available was unintended, but people clung on desperately to the advantage given by their broken game mechanic. I was never in any doubt that nano-ships were faster than could be considered reasonable, especially based on past experience of speed balancing. You know, some people are able to think for themselves, without having to have a devblog written to explain "fair" to us. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Avon No, lots and lots of people knew thew weren't intended because they lived through the removal of multiple MWD's/afterburners for pretty much the same reasons. It was clear that the level of speed tanking available was unintended, but people clung on desperately to the advantage given by their broken game mechanic. I was never in any doubt that nano-ships were faster than could be considered reasonable, especially based on past experience of speed balancing. ^^ This FFS. Why are we even still having a discussion about nano ships. CCP's intent for ship speed should have been made clear when they withdrew multiple MWD's. Now recruiting! Click FFS! :X
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Originally by: Ruze All the other good nerf arguments had already been had. The 'nerf pirates' and the 'nerf pvp' and the 'nerf chocolate' and the 'nerf minmatar'. What else did you expect us to talk about? You, sir, need to be taken outside, preferrably behind the bike sheds, and sound beaten. How can you mention nerfing chocolate. Those of us with a wife or a girlfriend in our lives know that chocolate is a basic necessity for a sane life. You need to seriously remove any mention, ever, of nerfing chocolate. Chocolate is the one sane and useful thing in this universe! Chocolate is WAY overpowered and imbalanced. And it deprives us of much neaded sexual entertainments. It definitely needs nerfed. And not enough people like vanilla. Vanilla needs buffed. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:47:00 - [58] Edited by: Ruze on 26/08/2008 19:47:19 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Avon No, lots and lots of people knew thew weren't intended because they lived through the removal of multiple MWD's/afterburners for pretty much the same reasons. It was clear that the level of speed tanking available was unintended, but people clung on desperately to the advantage given by their broken game mechanic. I was never in any doubt that nano-ships were faster than could be considered reasonable, especially based on past experience of speed balancing. ^^ This FFS. Why are we even still having a discussion about nano ships. CCP's intent for ship speed should have been made clear when they withdrew multiple MWD's. I totally agree with both. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:11:00 - [59] Edited by: Kelli Flay on 26/08/2008 20:11:49 Originally by: Ruze Edited by: Ruze on 26/08/2008 19:35:42 Originally by: Kelli Flay Edited by: Kelli Flay on 26/08/2008 19:27:24 Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Amazing how "nano nerf whiners" where whining for a valid point but "level 4 whiners" aren't. You seem very determined in your view on this. Could it be because you are biased beyond words? Except the speeds reached through Nano setups were not what the devs intended when they created the game. The amounts of mission pay, LPs ect from lvl4 high sec agents are what the devs intended since they are the ones who set those parameters. Guess that blows your whole stupid and sarcastic statement out of the water? Actually, everyone thought that the speeds reached WERE intended until they released a dev blog about it. Well, not everyone, because some players posted complaints, while many others were saying 'this is how it is designed to be used, deal.' And truthfully, who's to say they weren't intended up until that morning before the post? They could have been a mechanic functioning 'as designed' all the way up until they decided to change it, who knows. Same goes for mission running. Who, besides a developer, can honestly say that current mission rewards are balanced, and are intended? Seems to me that these developers can't predict every use of their code, and are also not omnipotent gods with the ability to see every reaction of every coding choice. As such, sometimes things work, and they leave it be. And then later, when presented with evidence (or at lease, well thought out skepticism), they may revise their 'as intended' philosophy. Because if everything already in game is 'as intended', then why are the developers constantly tweaking and adjusting their code? Why do we keep receiving new patches, and do they announce a new 'fix' about once a month over the past five years? Could it not be that 'as intended' is a motto for a moment, and not a rule of eternity? Is your battleship sinking yet? Bottom line is Devs said those speeds and the immunity to many weapon systems were never intended. Even if this was stated by them AFTER the whines, the fact remains that they validated the whining in public. The Devs set the mission payouts. If they want to change them that is up to them. Until i read a blog though where they say they never intended "this much isk" to be made in High sec. i stand by what i said. Your entire post is complete speculation and your opinions: AKA: B.S
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:23:00 - [60] Edited by: Ruze on 26/08/2008 20:24:32 Originally by: Kelli Flay Bottom line is Devs said those speeds and the immunity to many weapon systems were never intended. Even if this was stated by them AFTER the whines, the fact remains that they validated the whining in public. The Devs set the mission payouts. If they want to change them that is up to them. Until i read a blog though where they say they never intended "this much isk" to be made in High sec. i stand by what i said. Your entire post is complete speculation and your opinions: AKA: B.S That speculation and bullsht part works both ways. Which, of course, is why posts like these are made. To voice speculation and opinion, to name biased viewpoints and observations, and to allow a player to describe a problem he or she perceived, so that CCP can take a look at the situation and put their own evidence to test. Or, to denounce the opinions of others, and to attempt to call out hidden intentions and ulterior motives. Like 'Your just a pirate wanting grief targets' or 'You probably sell isk for cash and don't want to lose your golden goose'. Everything else, all this tribble and forum warrioring back and forth, is just entertainment for the masses. Of which I am a proud contender! Here's to hoping that one day soon, developers will address this issue in a thoughtful and considerate way, nay? Quote:* If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.

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