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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive The Mockers AO
33
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why redesign?
- Inferno was war themed, therefore we wanted to look at it.
- Big enough problem to dedicate a team to.
- Examined and war system was underutilized. lacks clear concept. Used for mutual fights or griefing
- Decided to give wars more structure. Make them harder to get out of.
- Does this fit all the game play styles?
- Explored several designs on how to fit more aggressive/hardcore war system
- Kept it simple in the end: Every player corp needs to accept that they can be war decc'd regardless of play style.
- The only way to avoid war decs is to stay in an NPC corp. Need to keep an eye on this.
- Players will have more options when conducting war. More ways to get involved. More ways to counter
- Declaring also has higher changes of backfiring, keeping them in check. Declaring war is more of a commitment.
- Wanted to add more clarity want to expand system to be become interesting outside of hi sec.
- To do this, wars need to provide solid structure and provide more information
Goals
- Tighten so it becomes clear how start/proceed/end
- Make clear how the war is progressing for strategic and status
- Make fighting a war a viable career path for merc corps.
Summary so far.
- Wars are harder to get out of
- wars have better structure
- Info about status is improved
- More options for corps at war
- Career path for Merc Corps.
All still work in progress. Slated for inferno release. Stuff is subject to change.
- Removes war shielding: Remove number of wars defender is in from the war cost forumal. Number of wars the aggressor is in is still a modifier. *applause here*
- War shedding (phony alliance) Corps leaving an Alliance continue all wars the alliance has as a new independent war. *applause here*
- If we find further ways to escape, they will be plugged. Policy is to make wars more impactful, therefore you can't easily escape them
- Base prices is now 20mill, rather than 2. Improves isk sink and makes it more of a consideration
- Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.
- CEO/Director makes decision. No more voting *applause*
- Wars can no longer be retracted by the aggressor when their want. Therefore more committing.
- Defender can only declare war mutual in 24 hours before war starts. Will remain mutual. Undecided on this one yet.
- Wars will last for a minimal of a week unless one side surrenders.
- Before week is up, aggressor chooses to extend. You pay the cost to extend it. Cost can change from week to week, based on size of target corp.
- Either side can offer a surrender, but can only have one offer at a time. Offer can include ISK. Other side has 24hours to respond or make a counter offer.
- If surrender is concluded, enforced peace period of a week starts between corps. You cannot war dec each other for 7 days
War Report
- All losses inflicted by each side are tracked in a war report
- Details include links killmails, ship classes, timelines for major battles. Losses in ISK/ships.
- Reports is available to all war participants
- Everything can now have value calculated for it. (e.g. titans)
- Killmails have had face lift, more graphics and more data. Shouldn't affect API, but will assist if it does.
- In game killmail looks like a killboard page.
War history
- Every corp and alliance will have a publicly available war history. All active and concluded wars
- Shows losses inflicted on both sides in the war and allies involved. Details not nailed down yet.
- Rank lists based on win/loss ration isk values etc. Probably not in Inferno, but planned
- Character war history, show if the character deserts corps! Probably not in Inferno, but planned.
War Options
- Defender corp can call an ally to their aid. This can be another corp or alliance. An aggressor can never call an ally. Joins after 24hours of accepting
- There restrictions to how many allies a corp can have *applause*
- Ally joins the defender on the report and stays till war ends.
- Ally contract can involve isk. Paid up front and does not recur every week.
Mercenary Marketplace
- Working title not in game name.
- Get to it through War ui or contract ui
- CEO/Director can create new type of contract. Tentatively called Ally Negotiation. More like an application of willing to help, or notice of needing help.
- Negotiation can occur over contract. Accept, Decline, Counter-offer
- Several entities can negotiate, but only one offer can be accepted.
- Considering Treaty systems. Non-aggression pacts etc
- Other things in the mix, but not being released yet as under heavy debate.
Questions:
- Current cost: 20mill + 500,000 per member in target corp.
- Review the rating of allys/contracts. Not in inferno, but being considered.
Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net |
gfldex
392
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Before the whining that is ENDLESS starts I would like to point out that war decs have a function. It tells a bad CEO that he or she is a bad CEO and need to change that. And yes, small *beep*y corps are *beep*ed.
Props to Velicia Tuoro for shamelessly fast typing. :) The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
49
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are going to be so many new mercenary corps!
As for carebear corps not being able to 'take control of the wardec and stopping it themselves' : just hire a while punch of mercs to pound them into submission. Once allied, the mercs will remain around and at some point the wardeccer will just stop paying. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive The Mockers AO
33
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Props to Velicia Tuoro for shamelessly fast typing. :)
My fingers hurt after this one!
Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net |
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive The Mockers AO
35
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Great tweet here:
Quote:Matt B GÇÅ @Northern_Goblin So that's 770 mil a week to dec E-Uni folks. Have fun with that. #EVEFanfest #Tweetfleet
http://tinyurl.com/7jot4up Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net |
Maria Solano
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Looking forward to this :)) |
BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
126
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit).
Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
114
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wonder why they haven't allowed for a non-wardec option at the inception of a corp. So the corp cannot take part in wardecs at all EVER for the serious carebear high-sec miners/researchers ? My EVE YouTube Channel |
Tam Althor
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
2
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
wow, this guy keeps saying they want war decs hardcore, but the aggressor is always allowed to drop the dec by not paying. Make it real hardcore.... you start a dec you get locked into it no matter how many allies your target brings until you surrender. |
Lucas Kell
Fodder.
19
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wow this war dec stuff seems like its going to kill small starting up corps completely. Now there's no way out of wars, no downside for aggressors but a massive downside for defenders. It's basically going to be, disband your corp or log off.
There needs to be a downside for the aggressor too. Like they said, most war dec corps are made of alts. Hell, my alts are in war dec corps lol. |
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 12:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
BeanBagKing wrote:Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit). Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?
Because bot tengu #59356373208346076 could really care less if it was caught for botting, as the account ban it will get is far more serious. |
Benny Ohu
The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 12:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tam Althor wrote:wow, this guy keeps saying they want war decs hardcore, but the aggressor is always allowed to drop the dec by not paying. Make it real hardcore.... you start a dec you get locked into it no matter how many allies your target brings until you surrender.
If the defender has balls and makes it mutual the aggressor cannot pull out until they surrender. |
gfldex
392
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
BeanBagKing wrote:Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?
Because of alts.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Geister Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.
This of course should be the other way around! The agressor should pay a fee based on the number of members the agressing corp has. Otherwise it will be an extorsion-fest for the griefing, bigger corps. Also: during the war, members of the agressing corp can leave, but none can join. |
ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
14
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Heh, I think I saw my first DEV flee from a presentation(the Warddec pres.). Didn-¦t look too happy about the round-table later either.
And come on, the removal of the rise in wardec fee by number of corps who have declared will be a total rapetrain by alt higsec campers. That-¦s just what struck me from watching the presentation. Haven-¦t thought much about it yet, too fricken early for that. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
49
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Velicia Tuoro wrote:Great tweet here: Quote:Matt B GÇÅ @Northern_Goblin So that's 770 mil a week to dec E-Uni folks. Have fun with that. #EVEFanfest #Tweetfleet http://tinyurl.com/7jot4up
Not to mention that EVE-U could probably get a ton of PvP-orientated corps to ally with them for free.
That's also why small corps really shouldn't be too scared of wardecs. 25 million ISK for a 5-men corp is just not worth it. And even then they can likely get a ton of cheap mercs to join them.
The amount of people that are going merc in Inferno is going to be insane. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't like the new war dec thingy...it looks like they replaced a fcked up system with another fcked up system, but renamed "retract war" with "don't pay bills anymore". |
ColumnaLcis
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
3
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well this looks interesting indeed. Noir. Academy is Open -á-á-áPVP with purpose. -á-á-áOrganisation, Discipline, Practice. http://noirmercs.com |
BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
126
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:BeanBagKing wrote:Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit). Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters? Because bot tengu #59356373208346076 could really care less if it was caught for botting, as the account ban it will get is far more serious.
First and second bans are only temporary (what is it? like 3 days or something?) so they aren't really that serious. As for alts, I'm sure some are. I think the point is more that this is something a lot more players have suggested and care about in the past, and is certainly seen as something more serious (from, IMO, both an in game and EULA perspective). With the blemish thing, they've shown they are willing to "mark" players, so why would they not go ahead and do it to botters, even if 90% of them don't care. I'd say 90% of people that bail on a corp during a war probably don't care either. |
Gordon Fell
Acura Tech
5
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Geister Bob wrote:Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.
This of course should be the other way around! The agressor should pay a fee based on the number of members the agressing corp has. Otherwise it will be an extorsion-fest for the griefing, bigger corps. Also: during the war, members of the agressing corp can leave, but none can join. (Corp being decced: maybe other way around...)
Seems more like it should cut both ways, have the modifier mix **** up anything but a 'fair' fight (rougly equal numbers against equal numbers). I feel cheap grieving is always lame; if you want to screw someone, pay up in sec and gank ship isk. |
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Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
new cost to dec eve uni will be 826mil. 1552 members eve uni 50mil ally and 776mil for members 500.000 isk per member |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
472
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wish, guys. Epic flashback too 2004. Follow me back to the 1st famfests.
All of these changes were introduced by hilmar in 2004. I remember, I was there. Why it stayed on the back burner for so long....
...
Oh ! And remember eve used to have s page that listed all current, future, and big dream feature lists. Why can't we have the cool future plans page ?? So we can keep up with what you guys are seeing coming up some day soon
Well this talk he just gave us, was that old 2004 proposal.. I wonder why it took them so long to bring it to light? It was promised in 2005 by the latest, and only now it might be happening? We'll see what happens. |
Ion Dogun
Drunken Fighters
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
The defender can make a war mutual only in the first 24 hours befor the war is going to start. Which highsecbased industrycorp with no interest and skills in pvp will do this? But the guy at the podium seems like having not done his homework properly only presenting some slight changes and raised cost for wardecs while not tackling the coreproblems. Im very diasapointed. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1403
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
On balance I like it.
Whats the situation with alliance on alliance warfare though in terms of declaration costs do we know?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
264
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like, or am neutral to, most of these changes. However, costs scaling up with the size of the defender corporation is absolutely insane. So, it's going to cost my tiny corporation a few billion ISK per week to declare war on a major power bloc? That's absolutely ridiculous. Member counts will be the new dec shield, with corporations creating trial accounts, filling them with characters, and padding their member counts.
If anything, the cost of war should scale inversely with member size. A large corporation declaring war against a small one should be paying proportionally more than a small corporation declaring war on a large one. |
Gummy Plaude
University of Caille Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have mixed feelings here.
War is about objectives. Wardecs still haven't any objectives other than metagaming ie extorsion, pvp or plain grief.
In my opinion Corporations should choose to commit into the War system by gaining access to certain ISK faucets and facilities or stay in a neutral status by renouncing those goodies.
One of the main advices given to new players is to join a corporation, but for a large part of hisec corporations wardecs are periods where they're strongly encouraged not to undock. I can't see this changing with the new system. |
Diva Ex Machina
Son's of The Hammer The Methodical Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I like, or am neutral to, most of these changes. However, costs scaling up with the size of the defender corporation is absolutely insane. So, it's going to cost my tiny corporation a few billion ISK per week to declare war on a major power bloc? That's absolutely ridiculous. Member counts will be the new dec shield, with corporations creating trial accounts, filling them with characters, and padding their member counts.
If anything, the cost of war should scale inversely with member size. A large corporation declaring war against a small one should be paying proportionally more than a small corporation declaring war on a large one.
The Dev indicated that trial accounts wouldn't count towards the total member number in determining cost. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
264
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Diva Ex Machina wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I like, or am neutral to, most of these changes. However, costs scaling up with the size of the defender corporation is absolutely insane. So, it's going to cost my tiny corporation a few billion ISK per week to declare war on a major power bloc? That's absolutely ridiculous. Member counts will be the new dec shield, with corporations creating trial accounts, filling them with characters, and padding their member counts.
If anything, the cost of war should scale inversely with member size. A large corporation declaring war against a small one should be paying proportionally more than a small corporation declaring war on a large one. The Dev indicated that trial accounts wouldn't count towards the total member number in determining cost. What about inactive accounts?
I want to repeat myself: the cost of war should scale inversely with member size. A large corporation declaring war against a small one should be paying proportionally more than a small corporation declaring war on a large one. Just thing about it, it makes perfect sense. A large corporation declaring on a small one creates quite an imbalance, and should pay more to make up for the extreme numerical superiority it possesses. A small corporation should pay less because it is taking on a more difficult target, and because under the proposed system, taking on very large targets will be virtually impossible from a financial standpoint.
Also, have they mentioned removing the 3-war-limit from corporations? |
Sneakybustard
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:new cost to dec eve uni will be 826mil. 1552 members eve uni 50mil ally and 776mil for members 500.000 isk per member
and that would be 4billion 126million to dec goonswarm plus 50 mil ofc with current 8252 members.. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
188
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Posted - 2012.03.24 13:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:Wars can no longer be retracted by the aggressor when their want. Therefore more committing...
Before week is up, aggressor chooses to extend. You pay the cost to extend it. Cost can change from week to week, based on size of target corp. Hmm. This seems contradictory. |
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