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Count Triton	Posted - 2008.08.28 22:34:00 - [61] How about introducing these new regions without any stargates, and require them to be constructed? They could also be seeded with unique materials/ores/salvage to make them worth exploring and holding.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 22:46:00 - [62] Originally by: Count Triton How about introducing these new regions without any stargates, and require them to be constructed? They could also be seeded with unique materials/ores/salvage to make them worth exploring and holding. OK now that could be interesting. Let me think on that. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Vin Fell DARKFELL EXCURSIONS	Posted - 2008.08.28 22:48:00 - [63] Edited by: Vin Fell on 28/08/2008 22:51:58 Edited by: Vin Fell on 28/08/2008 22:49:37 scroll up two posts mate. That link is what I'm talking about.... Perhaps even in the seperate non-sharded off-shoot new empire there would be no gates. But the Trans-warp drives. Available in mod or ship-built in. note those ships wouldn't have Standard Warp-drives associated with jump-gates... so there would be Jump-drive modules too :)
MeGrand Gallente Life INC	Posted - 2008.08.28 23:11:00 - [64] Hum interesting If I've understood this properly one of the problems your finding, is that as eve has become more popullas theirs a lack of a frontier (as defined by something remote with few people where life is hard but intresting) Seems like a good idea, set up some additional regions with long jump gates too (call them empire nation/pirate nation bastions or something rp ish) with a few npc stations and not much else, kind of a remote version of syndicate/ore regions. reasons? 1) could please a number of people, specfically i would think the more casual players of 0.0 - people with time can join alliances which are good but kind of time consuming, or that can try to slip into alliance terriroty and live alone (hard), i could see this kind of area pleaseing folks (without the mass fleets issues in syndicate (sometimes)). 2) Who would it harm? even if the ideas a bust you would just get a V empty 0.0 system only catch i could see is trying to get around the possibility of a single empire/long pipe camp issuse p.s. good or bad it a well constructed argument, and a number of reasoned replies edit p.p.s having read to the end... atacking an argument = fine, attacking a person not sensible, means i will just dismiss anything you say as childish All the right letters - just not nessacarily in the right order
imouttahere	Posted - 2008.08.28 23:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Sodium Phosphate Why does it matter when he posted his suggestion? Could you please contribute to the discussion instead of posting with and alt and trying to discredit the OP? Offer some suggestions of your own. Because Drunk Driver has long since lost the plot completely. When the discussion started going over his head, he started trolling. It's a common phenomenon... ... in stupid people. Oh the Irony.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.28 23:39:00 - [66] Eve is what I / you make of it yourself, sandbox with mines, remember? Still doesn't mean some pirate can't come blow me up, that's what he chose to do :D
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2008.08.28 23:56:00 - [67] okay an idea for the pile. not actually thought it out, it just popped up in my head and I'm too tired now to actually think if this is good or bad, so you decide. scattered regions, not connected with stargates. randomly (random system, random location, random open duration, sometimes they have to be scanned out to be even detectable), wormholes pop up giving access to and from the isolated regions. how's that? --- Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:25:00 - [68] Edited by: Johncrab on 29/08/2008 00:26:02 Originally by: Malcanis On the one hand we have a set of players who expect and desire EvE to be competitive in all aspects. (I am in this set) On the other, we have those who believe that "leaving others alone" entitles them to be left alone. Now as such, if someone is crazy enough to want to do nothing more in EvE than to endlessly grind the extremely sub-par PvE content, I say more power to them. Some people genuinely like German opera, so it just goes to show that no matter how incomprehensibly tedious an activity is, it will have it's fans. The core issue is that when someone is grinding L4s in this way, they're not leaving me alone. They're driving up the price of fancy faction items I want to buy. They're driving down the price of minerals and salvage I want to sell. They're funding pirates who want to gank my blockade runner. They're supporting alliances I want to crush beneath my heel. And worst of all, they're trashing the price of LP store goods that I want to sell after I run missions. Now frankly, as far as I am concerned: screw hi-sec. I don't like it. It's boring and crowded and bad men instapop my ship just for innocently accidentally shooting non-blues. You guys are welcome to it - all I want from there is skillbooks and low-priced T2. So help me out here: if you can think of suggestions for making hi-sec basically irrelevent to my 0.0 lifestyle, we can talk about them, refine them and put them forward as a proposal that the majority can support. One idea that occured to me: Let's make 0.0 really big. Let's triple it in size. And make most of the new space on the far side of the current outer regions. (I'm all for adding a few new NPC sov regions with lots of empire access points to encourage new 0.0 players but that's a different issue). Basically, I envision areas of 0.0 so far from empire that even with cap ships and jump freighters, it's still worthwhile developing a local economy rather than importing stuff from empire. Maybe with a few "islands" of lo-sec where NPCs can sell skillbooks and T1 BPOs... and perhaps the "islands used to link the new space to current 0.0 so no one alliance can set up a jump bridge network the whole distance. The new space would have to be above average quality to compensate for the loss of empire supplies (or else the inhabitants wouldn't be able to compete with close-to-empire alliances). I'm just throwing this idea out for the dogs to sniff. I recognise it's hardly perfect, but tbh I'm bored of the slanging matches, Let's have a productive discussion. let's hear some ideas. All of this coming from a char in a npc corp is, to say the least, a contradiction. Oh, and 0.0 is full of farming carebears. How do 0.0 alliances fund their super capitals...? From looting in pvp it isn't that's for sure
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:44:00 - [69] Originally by: Johncrab All of this coming from a char in a npc corp is, to say the least, a contradiction. Oh, and 0.0 is full of farming carebears. How do 0.0 alliances fund their super capitals...? From looting in pvp it isn't that's for sure The difference is if you don't like my carebearing ways or want my carebearing isk you can always come and try to take it from this carebear. So, how about it? Wanna try?
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:52:00 - [70] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Johncrab All of this coming from a char in a npc corp is, to say the least, a contradiction. Oh, and 0.0 is full of farming carebears. How do 0.0 alliances fund their super capitals...? From looting in pvp it isn't that's for sure The difference is if you don't like my carebearing ways or want my carebearing isk you can always come and try to take it from this carebear. So, how about it? Wanna try? Alredy did but the damn system didn't even load So I'm back in losec where I can actually load a system and enjoy a fight. Drop a line to come and visit anytime you like. No officer modules ok?
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:54:00 - [71] I like the idea, but there is a problem. How would you "introduce" the new systems as how FW introduced the region Black Rise were anything but bizarre, and I am nitpicking.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:56:00 - [72] I'm really starting to get the impression that someone is angry about the proposed Empire security changes. .
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:59:00 - [73] More space! more space! morre space! moar spac! moar spase1 more space!
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:05:00 - [74] the industry is backed by carebears and industrialists, local economy can't exist without them
Count Triton	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:30:00 - [75] Originally by: Digital Solaris I like the idea, but there is a problem. How would you "introduce" the new systems as how FW introduced the region Black Rise were anything but bizarre, and I am nitpicking. If new regions were introduced without an existing stargate network, it would not be the regions themselves but rather the techngology to discover them and build connecting infrastructure which would be introduced. In theory the systems would have been there all the time, we just wouldn't have been able to access them (I believe this was the case with the drone regions - the regions had been on the map from the start but were only released later. Black Rise was special in that it was the first region created from scratch in a long time).
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:38:00 - [76] Oh look. Yet another L4 mission nerf whine. Just how do L4 mission runners effect the price of faction goods, pray tell? I'd love for CCP to take missions completely out of the game all of the sudden for a month. I bet you an alt of mine half of you would be back here whining because mineral prices are too high and people aren't producing enough wares to support your pvp activities. This perpetual whining is what is going to ultimately cause me to close my last two accounts, not any nerf. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Xavier Zedicus Priory of Zorrabed	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:38:00 - [77] Adapt or have Pie
Gonada Gallente R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:42:00 - [78] you are all missing the point. The point is, that EVE is a sandbox game, where you can do anything you want. that means anything. I am truely sorry that most of you were brought up easy - mode games, truely. there is great freedom of mind in making choices, and descisions, but you have lost that will it seems, always taking the easy way out, rash and impetuous. you all have come here from other games, like myself. you all have lost interest in those games, for whatever reason, and yet you come here, to this game, and TRY TO CHANGE IT into what you came from. think about that for a min. you know its true. So why not embrace the chaos that is EVE, break free from your mindless embrace of a defined world, and realize EVE for what it is. Please, jump into traffic
Dharmic Vision Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:43:00 - [79] Personally, I would welcome these changes, but only if any rare mineral moons were added at the ass-end of the new regions, to make them a challenge for a single entity to control. Right now, my understanding is that these are the targets of war-- which is great, gives market incentive to fight, but the short distances quoted by Malcanis make it too easy to establish and maintain control of them. For NPC goods such as Robotics, why not add an upgrade platform available for Outposts to allow production of these goods? Hell, you could add this as a rare BPC drop from exploration plexes or officers or something. You could add another outpost upgrade drop that allows for limited skill production-- remember, these aren't actually books but things you stick into your capsuleer implants and passively absorb. Someone's gonna crack this system and figure out how to create bootleg copies. But only a certain number per day, or one category at a time, or both. Would help ease the need to hop back and forth and make Outpost upgrades meaningful. One thing to keep in mind is that expanding Eve in this way would inevitably affect mineral and component availability throughout New Eden. If a significant proportion of players moves out to take advantage of the new regions, removing them from the local economy will have its impact on highsec. The challenges of populating such an area would particularly bleed off people interested in logistical challenges, perhaps impacting the ability of more local organizations to maintain their own moon mining operations. If you separate the markets by distance, there WOULD be other effects just from the exodus of people. I get the impression that not too many people have memories stretching back past the last couple of weeks. What I'm reading here isn't a response to the CONCORD changes and stuff, it is an extension of concepts that Malcanis has posted on before in light of those changes. To the guy accusing him of being in an npc corp, look at his employment record, lots of deep space and lowsec alliance work. He's in between employers now. I've often enjoyed reading his posts, they are usually well thought out.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:46:00 - [80] Originally by: Empyre Oh look. Yet another L4 mission nerf whine. Just how do L4 mission runners effect the price of faction goods, pray tell? I'd love for CCP to take missions completely out of the game all of the sudden for a month. I bet you an alt of mine half of you would be back here whining because mineral prices are too high and people aren't producing enough wares to support your pvp activities. This perpetual whining is what is going to ultimately cause me to close my last two accounts, not any nerf. I would love higher mineral prices. I want to see 110mil ravens again, whats wrong with that exactly? People will just fly smaller ships, but f*cking deal.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:50:00 - [81] Malcanis for dev, etc. - DesuSigs
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:52:00 - [82] Originally by: Gamesguy I would love higher mineral prices. I want to see 110mil ravens again, whats wrong with that exactly In much the same way as the richest 2% of the world want the social divide to be an immeasurable chasm, this makes sense. Scale the prices and you've effectively forced smaller corporations and alliances out of the fight. But I'm guessing that's exactly what the type of thing your alliance would love. Originally by: Gamesguy but f*cking deal. ..but this explains everything. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:52:00 - [83] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 29/08/2008 01:54:50 Originally by: Malcanis The core issue is that when someone is grinding L4s in this way, they're not leaving me alone. They're driving up the price of fancy faction items I want to buy. They're driving down the price of minerals and salvage I want to sell. They're funding pirates who want to gank my blockade runner. They're supporting alliances I want to crush beneath my heel. And worst of all, they're trashing the price of LP store goods that I want to sell after I run missions. To paraphrase: nerf everyone else's playstyle because it cramps my own. What use is an economy without competitors? What use is a blockade runner without blockades? Should CCP start planting NPCs who will buy your LP store goods at inflated prices, or should you adapt your industry to make a profit where there is a profit to be made? It's all about risk vs reward. There is little risk in mission-running, and the rewards are naturally scaling to reflect the low risk. Welcome to a player-driven economy in a player-versus-player environment. There's no need to adjust the universe to suit your playstyle when it's much easier for your playstyle to adjust to suit the universe. Adapt or die.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.29 02:00:00 - [84] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 29/08/2008 02:00:53 Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 29/08/2008 01:54:50 Originally by: Malcanis The core issue is that when someone is grinding L4s in this way, they're not leaving me alone. They're driving up the price of fancy faction items I want to buy. They're driving down the price of minerals and salvage I want to sell. They're funding pirates who want to gank my blockade runner. They're supporting alliances I want to crush beneath my heel. And worst of all, they're trashing the price of LP store goods that I want to sell after I run missions. To paraphrase: nerf everyone else's playstyle because it cramps my own. What use is an economy without competitors? What use is a blockade runner without blockades? Should CCP start planting NPCs who will buy your LP store goods at inflated prices, or should you adapt your industry to make a profit where there is a profit to be made? It's all about risk vs reward. There is little risk in mission-running, and the rewards are naturally scaling to reflect the low risk. Welcome to a player-driven economy in a player-versus-player environment. There's no need to adjust the universe to suit your playstyle when it's much easier for your playstyle to adjust to suit the universe. Adapt or die. I've highlighted the flaw in this otherwise valid argument. While the effects of mission *****s on the market are due to the market having PvP freedom, the fact that there are so many doing it with so little loss is because the source of that PvP effect (the market) is essentially an increasingly pure PvE environment (the missions). And the OP's suggestion is just about getting away from this effect, not changing it directly. - DesuSigs
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.29 02:12:00 - [85] One foolproof way for you to get away from the carebears and the "carebear effect" would be to cancel your accounts. Just trying to be helpful. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.29 02:13:00 - [86] Originally by: Opertone the industry is backed by carebears and industrialists, local economy can't exist without them I agree. Without the carebears the Pvp'ing quickly dies down to no resources and no mins to make any ships or ammo, etc and thus PvP'ing quickly dies. Without the Constant source of Trit and other High sec ores going through the systems the ability to make equipment/ships becomes extremely unlucrative (sp?). Worse still is that if Anyone could Podkill/pvp anyone else with no consequences in any area then the only distinction between the regions would be the types of minerals in them (sec status wouldnt matter; there would be no such thing as high or low sec - its all 0.0). You would need to set up gangs of (eventually) 100+ ships simply to mine a belt and who wants to take their dreadnought or titan or three into a mining belt just to watch a miner crush ore, on the off chance that another faction/alliances/corp may come in a want to get the mins they need to fund their own ships/expeditions??? Not to mention the feasibility of such a such expeditions.... The current system, while not perfect, is quite close in that you CAN pirate in Highsec, but if you do, you can expect the authorities to come down on you to protect the innocent (miners and industrialists) - without them you can get your T2 goodies that you crave... Of course you COULD simply aim to get good enough skills, ships, & equipment to be able to take out the Concord that DO show up! Not THATS a PvE challenge! I think there are youtube vids of people claiming to have done this..... While I DO understand your issues (the issue gets more emotive when your making a living from the high end T2 stuff and all the details you've prevuiously mentioned), posting this in a General Discussion forum Does make the OP seem more like an Extremely well constructed Troll.. If you follow the rules of the game and the market then if people are flooding a market with the goods you have then you have several options open to you: - go to a different market (theres the 40 hops you want for a "wide open space") to sell your goods. - Sell different goods - ones that arent flooded onto the market.... Its all Economics really... You may not like the fact that your not making the billions of isk you were before but the market adjusts to the supply and demand of the goods and services. You just need to think a little laterally and adjust to the changing market forces.... Regards, Jason Brisbane
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.29 02:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Opertone the industry is backed by carebears and industrialists, local economy can't exist without them And carebears and industrialists only exist in highsec, yes? - DesuSigs
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:19:00 - [88] Originally by: Johncrab All of this coming from a char in a npc corp You know not who you speak of There are some good ideas in this thread. Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. DesuSigs
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:24:00 - [89] Originally by: Empyre Originally by: Gamesguy I would love higher mineral prices. I want to see 110mil ravens again, whats wrong with that exactly In much the same way as the richest 2% of the world want the social divide to be an immeasurable chasm, this makes sense. Scale the prices and you've effectively forced smaller corporations and alliances out of the fight. But I'm guessing that's exactly what the type of thing your alliance would love. Because when ravens were 110mil each, which was not that long ago, smaller corporations and alliances stood no chance and never participated in fights right? Why would my alliance care why the newer players can afford a ship or not?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:10:00 - [90] Originally by: Gamesguy Why would my alliance care why the newer players can afford a ship or not? Just like the rest of us: Then there's more ships to blow up!

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