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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.30 22:19:00 -
[1]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=859291
Posted in wrong location initially, sorry for the other post but i was told this section is best for investments.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.31 00:15:00 -
[2]
6% ROI for low sec pos operations, is below my notice.
Thank you.
--
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.31 01:15:00 -
[3]
Regardless of the trustworthiness and competency of the OP (and neither has been anywhere near established), I wouldn't dare put towers in low sec for 6%. Even if I were the guy running said towers, I wouldn't risk them for 6%.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.31 15:26:00 -
[4]
I updated the rate of return and the stock payouts
please see the linked thread at the top of this post and read my post on the bottom.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.31 17:00:00 -
[5]
Why do I need to have an alt in your corp?
POS-Tracker 2.1.0 Hosting |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.31 17:14:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Johnathan Roark
Why do I need to have an alt in your corp?
to allow investors to see the books
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.31 17:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
to allow investors to see the books
As an idea, great. In practice, not so great. There are several better ways to do this. Firstly, you could just find a community accepted whistleblower. He'd join your corp and if something whacked out happens, he blows the whistle. This could also be done via API monitoring as well. Hmmmm... don't know a real second tbh. Just let me point out, having every investor being able to look at your books is NOT a good idea. Period.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.31 17:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: ShadowandLight
to allow investors to see the books
As an idea, great. In practice, not so great. There are several better ways to do this. Firstly, you could just find a community accepted whistleblower. He'd join your corp and if something whacked out happens, he blows the whistle. This could also be done via API monitoring as well. Hmmmm... don't know a real second tbh. Just let me point out, having every investor being able to look at your books is NOT a good idea. Period.
Thanks for that info, id prefer an independent auditor that the investors could hire....
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.31 18:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
Thanks for that info, id prefer an independent auditor that the investors could hire....
You'll find the investors are only going to express an opinion on suitability. They will not, directly as a group, hire or pay for an independent auditor. (IRL this is also the case.)
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.01 17:07:00 -
[10]
up |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.01 17:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
up
This ain't one of the sell forums. And even there you are supposed to say something more than bump. |
Inoshuu
Caldari
Lance Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.01 17:48:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Inoshuu on 01/09/2008 17:48:27
I've been watching this with a eagle eye and something that doesn't quite click with me...
Quote:
While this is the 1st time ive done this kind of business transaction in EVE, the numbers seem quite fair.
Ok, this isn't a good statement. Why would I want to invest my hard earned (not really) isk in a corp that is run by someone who hasn't done this thing before? Especially when asking for well over 20 billion?
Rule of thumb around here is that we invest in somebody who has experience and who's been around on the MD forum.
Also, this "IPO" has been going for 3 days and you still haven't gotten the Alliance leader to come in and confirm that the alliance will help defend the POS network.
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ShadowandLightsMojo
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Posted - 2008.09.05 06:43:00 -
[13]
up, please read the new update
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.05 07:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
Full Update
I am in the process of buying a T2 Component / Moon Mining Corp.
4 Faction Towers - Production T2 Components
4 Standard Towers - Moon Mining
Income is approx. 1.5 to 2 Billion ISK per WEEK in profit
I have full details available in a ingame mailing list
We have raised 20 out of 30 billion for the corp, and I am looking to reach 30 billion total.
As for returns, we are offering a MINIMUM of 25% return on investment per month, for as long as the investor stays with the corp. Rates could reach as high as 40% depending on market conditions and the corp expansion plans.
1 billion ISK is the minimum amount to invest, with only 7 Billion left to purchase stock wise.
I have decided to have the corp join a 0.0 alliance that is very close to the space the corp currently is in, for guaranteed protection services.
Corp Assets and BPO's have been verified through 3rd party AND Screenshots of the BPOs and Towers.
More Updates to come.
Quoted this so as to keep a history with which to discuss changes. Post Begins Originally by: ShadowandLight
Corp Assets and BPO's have been verified through 3rd party AND Screenshots of the BPOs and Towers.
Does this third party have a name? Originally by: ShadowandLight
I have decided to have the corp join a 0.0 alliance that is very close to the space the corp currently is in, for guaranteed protection services.
Still... I see no alliance representative or leader confirming your project and their willingness to support it should it come to a gunfight. Originally by: ShadowandLight
I have full details available in a ingame mailing list
If it can be fully detailed via an in game mailing list what is the problem with doing so here? Originally by: ShadowandLight
We have raised 20 out of 30 billion for the corp, and I am looking to reach 30 billion total.
Who provided this first 20 billion? Can we talk to them? Originally by: ShadowandLight
Income is approx. 1.5 to 2 Billion ISK per WEEK in profit
Thank you for telling us what you hope to get. What is the possible downside numbers if you would. Originally by: ShadowandLight
As for returns, we are offering a MINIMUM of 25% return on investment per month, for as long as the investor stays with the corp. Rates could reach as high as 40% depending on market conditions and the corp expansion plans.
This here is where I think you start to lose my interest. High returns (with possible higher returns) from someone with no reputation, with a weakly delivered highly revised offering, and little to know practical experience (as evidenced) in several aspects of running a large project within Eve... ... I trailed off because the supposition I would make, given the data of the moment, is less then favorable. In the extreme.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Mossreach
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Posted - 2008.09.05 12:07:00 -
[15]
Which t2 bpo's are you getting as part of this deal? Deduct the market value of them and the 8 towers from 30b and the balance you're effectively paying for this corp cant be more than a few weeks profit, if it's making 2B per week. Either my math is off or that's one highly motivated seller..
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.05 12:31:00 -
[16]
Get the alliance leader in here, a relative location of the network (no specifics needed just an idea), and an audit, and bump the return rate and...maybe.
But even then... my gut is telling me know based on what little history you have. |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.05 13:52:00 -
[17]
You went from a 6% per month return to a 25% per month return after apparently securing investors for up to 20b of the offering.
I call bs tbh. If you had already raised 2/3 of the capital you wouldn't be rising the interest rate especially by such a huge margin.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.09.05 14:25:00 -
[18]
A perfect example of a scam in progress, take note folks. If you are going to scam, try not to make it so obvious.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nido Gentz
A perfect example of a scam in progress, take note folks. If you are going to scam, try not to make it so obvious.
im sorry you feel this is a scam, but ive done everything i can in game and out of game to prove my sincerity in the situation.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: ShadowandLight on 05/09/2008 16:03:40
double post, bad response
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mossreach
Which t2 bpo's are you getting as part of this deal? Deduct the market value of them and the 8 towers from 30b and the balance you're effectively paying for this corp cant be more than a few weeks profit, if it's making 2B per week. Either my math is off or that's one highly motivated seller..
they are 50 T2 Component BPO's, worth in total about 500 Million BEFORE the research that has been done to them
so lets say 1 billion since they are all above 33 PE / ME
Figure 10 billion in assets, 15 billion for the corp, 3 - 4 months on paper for investor dividends to pay them back and for them to start making profits
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ricdic
You went from a 6% per month return to a 25% per month return after apparently securing investors for up to 20b of the offering.
I call bs tbh. If you had already raised 2/3 of the capital you wouldn't be rising the interest rate especially by such a huge margin.
6% interest in the long run was putting the corp in a hole.
I did the math, and figured it would be easier to understand and slightly cheaper for the corp to pay a pure dividend based on the investment every month.
at 25% dividend, according to current corp profit vs expenses, the corp will be clearing 1.7 billion ISK per month after paying expenses and dividends
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:22:00 -
[23]
ANSWERS TO SHAR TEGRAL
- 3rd party's are Quinti Aurelius and SunBurnedFrog
- Ive been trying to get Alliance Diplomat into here to comment, but they have been busy. I will keep on this, its out of my control.
- Investors right now I am keeping anonomys, but only because I dont know if all of them want to be known. However, please EVEMAIL me for access to the internal game mailing list, and once that happens u can post a request for investors to contact you that way.
- 25% dividend the corp is projected to make 1.7 billion ISK / month and pays out 6.0 billion. At 30%, the corp makes 564 million and pays out 7.2 billion isk. If the corp is able to expand its operations and grow the profit margin, we MIGHT be able to hit 35 - 40 % return rates, no promises. 25% right now works for everyone and makes the corp wallet able to grow a cushion.
- Downside numbers would be based on NOT selling t2 components and only selling Moon Minerals ( r32 ) if that happens, worse case, we sell the 4 faction towers that are producing t2 components and downsize, slashing out expenses.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:26:00 -
[24]
Please see the 1st post, now updated with screen shots and link to the spreadsheet i am working on with the financial data.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
- 3rd party's are Quinti Aurelius and SunBurnedFrog
No direct insult to these gentlemen but "who"? Ah... sorry you didn't say trusted unaffiliated 3rd parties. Originally by: ShadowandLight
- Ive been trying to get Alliance Diplomat into here to comment, but they have been busy. I will keep on this, its out of my control.
Says to me that they are probably to busy to worry about defending your little operation as well. Originally by: ShadowandLight
- Investors right now I am keeping anonomys, but only because I dont know if all of them want to be known. However, please EVEMAIL me for access to the internal game mailing list, and once that happens u can post a request for investors to contact you that way.
You are keeping them anonymous? So you are not informing them that there is a thread where they could post their confidence in your project? Come on, you could do better than this. Originally by: ShadowandLight
- 25% dividend the corp is projected to make 1.7 billion ISK / month and pays out 6.0 billion. At 30%, the corp makes 564 million and pays out 7.2 billion isk. If the corp is able to expand its operations and grow the profit margin, we MIGHT be able to hit 35 - 40 % return rates, no promises. 25% right now works for everyone and makes the corp wallet able to grow a cushion.
Numbers that have no real relevance. I'll be looking at your spreadsheet in an effort to understand the context of your numbers. Originally by: ShadowandLight
- Downside numbers would be based on NOT selling t2 components and only selling Moon Minerals ( r32 ) if that happens, worse case, we sell the 4 faction towers that are producing t2 components and downsize, slashing out expenses.
When I said downside I meant what about poor sales of components themselves. I suspect, readily, that your numbers are the best possible outcome representation. Have you factored in a downside scenario including such things as competition, sudden expenses(losses), and an overall saturation of market? These are serious considerations that will have an effect. I do not prefer to have discussions in game over these kinds of matters. In game conversations and eve mails are considered "non-proof". Mailing lists can be censored and edited. Even screen shots are also considered highly suspect. For instance: The POS screenshots could be from Sisi. The wallet screenshot could be from anyone though I suspect if we contact some people on that list to back track who they bought stuff from there would be a trail. And, finally, why (for heaven's sake) would you have a screen shot of a web page all about "Faked Photographs/Screen shots" open on your screen shot of some proof? Also one must consider that after all of your care in removing identifying marks from other screen shots that you suddenly oops and leave the "stargate" on your overview.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:01:00 -
[26]
Scam alert.
OP just edited and changed the BPO screenshots as I was looking at them.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Scam alert.
OP just edited and changed the BPO screenshots as I was looking at them.
I just organized the BPO list by name so people can see that the corp owns multiple copies of the same BPO
jeez, calm down
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
And, finally, why (for heaven's sake) would you have a screen shot of a web page all about "Faked Photographs/Screen shots" open on your screen shot of some proof? Also one must consider that after all of your care in removing identifying marks from other screen shots that you suddenly oops and leave the "stargate" on your overview.[/justify]
can u clarify this? im not sure what u mean
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
can u clarify this? im not sure what u mean
What I mean is that you had one screen shot up that showed your entire desktop. This included your browser window which was open to page about faking photographs. You then changed the screen shots removing that portion. As an example: Original BPO1.JPGEdited bpo1.jpgOriginal BPO2.JPGEdited bpo1.jpgOriginal BPO3.JPGEdited bpo3.jpgIMHO, the fact that you have decided to act as if you don't know what I am talking about simply confirms your scammer status. Oh don't worry, we know that you haven't scammed yet and thus you can cry that you weren't going to scam. However changing screen shots after the fact just absolutely destroys your credibility to such that... who cares anymore? You may leave now.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:38:00 -
[30]
Edited by: ShadowandLight on 05/09/2008 17:43:05
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: ShadowandLight
can u clarify this? im not sure what u mean
What I mean is that you had one screen shot up that showed your entire desktop. This included your browser window which was open to page about faking photographs. You then changed the screen shots removing that portion. As an example: Original BPO1.JPGEdited bpo1.jpgOriginal BPO2.JPGEdited bpo1.jpgOriginal BPO3.JPGEdited bpo3.jpgIMHO, the fact that you have decided to act as if you don't know what I am talking about simply confirms your scammer status. Oh don't worry, we know that you haven't scammed yet and thus you can cry that you weren't going to scam. However changing screen shots after the fact just absolutely destroys your credibility to such that... who cares anymore? You may leave now.
lol that was a STORY on DIGG.COM about FAKE photographs that have become FAMOUS on the internet
if i was TRYING TO SCAM PEOPLE i wouldnt be STUPID enough to have PHOTOSHOP open while EDITING the pictures.... give me a break
Orignial Story
Digg.com Link
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