EVE Search - The New Target Breaker Module: Massive Impact on Fleet Fights?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The New Target Breaker Module: Massive Impact on Fleet Fights?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Revolution Rising Gentlemen of Better Ilk 115	Posted - 2012.03.25 10:42:00 - [31] - Quote I think it would be OMFGWTFBBQ awesome to get rid of the entire idea of... primaries. I know right. But, engagements would be far far far more fun. Smaller gangs working together as part of a larger fleet taking down ships they are designed to take down perhaps ? I think that would be awesome to not just be one cog in someone's machine that just targets what they are told to and hit f1 - it is boring as hell. My EVE YouTube Channel
Tobiaz Spacerats 59	Posted - 2012.03.25 10:47:00 - [32] - Quote Nairb Hig wrote: I like anything that is anti-blob. I would be concerned about implementation and balancing, as usual, but by merely suggesting this module they show what they are thinking about. Which pleases me. Best anti-blob measure would be nerfing strategic projection of forces: ie. nerfing warpspeed, cutting highway gates and increasing fuelcosts for jumpbridges and such. It's the main reason for the players' ability to blob. This module might affect the tactics of fighting against a blob a bit, but it will be extremely hard to balance between 'must-have' and 'useless', and it won't, not even in the slightest, reduce players blobbing up. I like it though. It will lessen alpha (though a good FC will just stagger his primary call to counter it), smaller ships will be a bit more effective in big fights, and perhaps people will stop whining about ECM and focus on this for a while about how it messes with their DPS. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures!
Savage Creampuff Ion Corp. Citex Alliance 2	Posted - 2012.03.25 10:50:00 - [33] - Quote +1 for friendly locking
Trading Unknown Republic University Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2012.03.25 10:58:00 - [34] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: So, do we get a lock warning alarm other than auto target back to go with this thing? You can watch your overview. :P
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 1076	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:01:00 - [35] - Quote This is on the stream right now. Up to part 2, talking about what they're actually doing.
Sendo Jarix GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:06:00 - [36] - Quote The problem with this is how do you balance it to scale from 30 people all the way up to 1000 ? Secondly maximum TiDi fights get rather tedious as it is with how long they last, this is just going to result in less people dying over even longer periods. That said though they were pretty clear these are all work in progress and may not show up at all not much point worrying about it till it hits SiSi.
gfldex 395	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:33:00 - [37] - Quote Before Target Breaker you have to one volley ships in fleet fights because of tons and tons of logis. After Target Breaker you will have to one volley ships in fleet fights because of tons and tons of logis. The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 908	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:39:00 - [38] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: My first thought is that large long engagements are now going to be large really, really long engagements. Mr Epeen That's exactly my thoughts too. If it changes the "one shot" concept (bye artillery?) it only helps logistics making fights looooong.
Tobiaz Spacerats 60	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:40:00 - [39] - Quote gfldex wrote: Before Target Breaker you have to one volley ships in fleet fights because of tons and tons of logis. After Target Breaker you will have to one volley ships in fleet fights because of tons and tons of logis. cough ECM cough http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures!
Cindy Marco Expanse Security 67	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:50:00 - [40] - Quote I don't think the lock breaker will make much of a difference. It would have been useful before TIDI, but these days you can reasonably expect that the server will actually accept commands. If anything, alpha will matter more. Now you will just start locking later, so your guns are ready to cycle when you lock. With your guns already active, they fire immediately upon locking. Hence, no chance for the module to break your lock. If your fleet has high alpha you pop the ship before a 2ed volley would be needed anyway.
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 391	Posted - 2012.03.25 11:55:00 - [41] - Quote Nothing for nothing. So...an item that makes all other targeted modules ineffective. BUT, it only works when you're in the large alliances...kinda like war dec mechanics...you have to be able to AFFORD to war dec Goonwaffles now... Welp. Why not? Leave people sitting around picking their bellybutton lint long enough and they'll suddenly think of something! Maybe that's not such a good idea. One thing's for sure about all this NEW EVE genius - nothing for nothing. What're they going to call this new game, or are they keeping the old name? Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
ElQuirko Gravit Negotii Rogue Elements. 458	Posted - 2012.03.25 12:06:00 - [42] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Nothing for nothing. So...an item that makes all other targeted modules ineffective. BUT, it only works when you're in the large alliances...kinda like war dec mechanics...you have to be able to AFFORD to war dec Goonwaffles now... Or you can just go shoot them and take sov in null without paying for anything and still have no repercussions? If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA?
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 49	Posted - 2012.03.25 14:23:00 - [43] - Quote Morgan North wrote: If I was there I would've asked this (And if a Dev look at this question maybe he can respond :) ): Why for shield boosters, which naturally should use cap, and not for armor repairers, that evidently need material to replace the damage? Although not explicitly stated, its not hard to imagine that they have an armor and hull variant in the works also. They just gave a brief overview of what new concepts they're currently considering.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 1330	Posted - 2012.03.25 14:27:00 - [44] - Quote CCP stated outright that they are introducing new modules to the game. THIS WILL BREAK THE GAME AS WE KNOW IT! This is not a bad thing. This makes new fits and new fleet compositions instead of being the dull same old same old that it is right now. Just because it breaks how the current game works does not mean it will not be a better game in the long run. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 42	Posted - 2012.03.25 15:01:00 - [45] - Quote Anti-blob module that also benefits the blob .. going to be a Must HaveGäó I fear. Just hope it is a high-slot module or it will be yet another indirect nerf to Amarr's midslot deficient lineup. Questions: - Will super-capitals be prohibited from using it? - Will drone locks count? Big enough swarm and module user is effectively invulnerable to drone damage, could be an awesome counter for Dreads against SCs.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide. 110	Posted - 2012.03.25 16:35:00 - [46] - Quote Veshta Yoshida wrote: Anti-blob module that also benefits the blob .. going to be a Must HaveGäó I fear. Just hope it is a high-slot module or it will be yet another indirect nerf to Amarr's midslot deficient lineup. Questions: - Will super-capitals be prohibited from using it? - Will drone locks count? Big enough swarm and module user is effectively invulnerable to drone damage, could be an awesome counter for Dreads against SCs. Why rely on hostiles using drones? logistics drones require a lock, have everyone deploy 5 small armor bots on the friendly primary and he could easily have 2000 locks just from friendly ships, would probably give him a guaranteed lock-break
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 49	Posted - 2012.03.25 16:37:00 - [47] - Quote Veshta Yoshida wrote: Anti-blob module that also benefits the blob .. going to be a Must HaveGäó Only for massive fleet fights of hundreds of people. Chances are though, only half of the people in your fleet need to actually have one; the rest can get away with it. Being frustrating in every other primary is enough of a deterrent to prevent overwhelming focus fire. Questions: Veshta Yoshida wrote: - Will super-capitals be prohibited from using it? According to another poster, it was said to be restricted from capitals. Carriers and dreads could still feasibly be allowed to use this module imho. Veshta Yoshida wrote: - Will drone locks count? Big enough swarm and module user is effectively invulnerable to drone damage, could be an awesome counter for Dreads against SCs. Unknown but imho it would be nice if they still counted percentage wise but had a much smaller effect than a ship lock.
Kattshiro Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 24	Posted - 2012.03.25 16:44:00 - [48] - Quote Large Collidable Object wrote: I love the idea - anything that helps moving fleet fights away from the horrendous ctrl click primary hit f1 idiocy is great. However this may be a bit problematic with titans and supers where successfully taking the sip down requires a huge amount of players to lock the target (provided anyone still flies titans and supers when it comes out due to goons nerfing them beyond uselessness). Hope to god it wont be able to be fit on anything above a BS... That or you're going to need to bring a lot more dread to the fight and split it. Also MAKE THIS MOD FIT IN A HIGH SLOT!!
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 49	Posted - 2012.03.25 16:52:00 - [49] - Quote IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Why rely on hostiles using drones? logistics drones require a lock, have everyone deploy 5 small armor bots on the friendly primary and he could easily have 2000 locks just from friendly ships, would probably give him a guaranteed lock-break This has been the issue with other proposals involving changes to targeting mechanics but I think this module idea that CCP is considering skirts around the issue quite elegantly. If everyone can't primary one target, then dps is being split--multiple ships are being hit at once. Remember, this module only breaks locks, you can retarget easily. Unless a fleet has "hive mind-like" characteristics, its going to be next to impossible to lock everyone whose tank is breaking. This module would break the locks of friendly ships and those friendly ships would be constantly retargeting other friendly ships which takes an impossible of coordination to use effectively. The fleet can't keep up with 20, 30 or 40 broadcasts of multiple people who are low on hp. So while fleet fights might last slightly longer because of friendly locking, I don't think we're going to be anywhere close to the issue of fleets being somewhat invulnerable to each other. Remember that this solution removes logistics locks too so that while no dps is being applied to you, no one is repping you also in the meantime as everyone is retargeting you. Also, the issue of drones could be solved by having a successful lockbreak reset a drone's orders. The ship with the logi drones would have to retarget the ship being repped again.
Isonda The Candiru None Of The Above 0	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:05:00 - [50] - Quote so, Primary will break lock, making all shield / armor xfer mods stop, then it will be a rush to land the damage. This is a stealth missile buff. In the seconds after the lock breaker mod has triggered, all remote reps stop, and, missiles hit. 200 CM ravens at range would actually be useful after this. Now they are useless because of remote reps.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 404	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:09:00 - [51] - Quote Great, fleet fights will take even longer and small gang combat will have even more people running away. Awesome.
Nalha Saldana Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 182	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:27:00 - [52] - Quote Veshta Yoshida wrote: Just hope it is a high-slot module or it will be yet another indirect nerf to Amarr's midslot deficient lineup. Because shield tank ships dont use all their mid slots if they want to get close to armor tank ehp? Armor ships usually have more mid slots to use for utility. Full tank + this > sacrifice tank for this.
Alice Katsuko Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing 85	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:27:00 - [53] - Quote The effect would depend on the exact formula used to calculate chance to break lock, so no-one aside from the developers can say exactly what effect it would have on fleet fights. I suspect that the purpose of the module is to discourage massed fire by large fleets of 100 or more, and reward coordination and player skill over raw numbers. It will probably take that many people locking a target to make fitting the proposed lockbreaker module worthwhile, since the lockbreaker module will occupy the space that could be used by something else that might well be more useful, like another gun or a tank module. So most likely small gang warfare involving less than twenty or thirty persons to a side will not be significantly affected. At least, I don't think that's the target fleet size for the module. Big nullsec fleets will be affected, but the change may be for the better. For example, under the currently FOTM alpha fleet doctrine, it only takes thirty or so Maelstroms to one-shot a properly tanked Abaddon, which is the heaviest-tanked tech-1 battleship in the game.* But nullsec fleets of 100 Maelstroms or more will still usually have only a single primary target, which is an enormous waste of damage. Which is why some alliances have experimented with 1200mm artillery, since it has a significantly shorter cycle time than 1400mm artillery; the smaller alpha strike of 1200mm artillery doesn't matter when you have 200 alpha ships on field, but being able to fire twice as often does. Being forced to assign multiple targets could make such fleets more efficient. A second issue is how logistics and other friendly support will be affected by this module, if at all. A third is whether drones will count. This is all speculative, of course. *Although some would say that the Rokh can fit a marginally heavier tank.
Muestereate Two Geezers in Space 16	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:28:00 - [54] - Quote Hey if it gets those Sansha off my ass , I'm all for it.
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 50	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:31:00 - [55] - Quote Muestereate wrote: Hey if it gets those Sansha off my ass , I'm all for it. Assuming npcs count.
Muestereate Two Geezers in Space 16	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:39:00 - [56] - Quote Well if they don't I'm not for it. I am content to let the blob warfare guys grind on wearing out their f1 key. In fact nerf the f1 key by making a module where the enemy has to use all 8 fingers
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 499	Posted - 2012.03.25 17:41:00 - [57] - Quote How do you counter something like this? Hmmm....lets see.... Bring back AoE Titans? F**** Awesome! I nominate this suggestion. Any seconds! I second it. Approved! Motion carries! /sarcasm Really stupid ***** idea. Is basicly a placate to fix the blob, but the whiney players just can't fix alpha themselves. Pro-tip: Bigger buffer, bigger ship = cap ship = HTFU and train for something more then a battleship! This sounds so ripe for abuse unless it has really long cycle time, its so great that the player base creates blob fleets to counter the opponents who then bring a bigger blob fleet which in turn requires another blob fleet rinse repeate ad nausem. Eventually, you will have people just lagging the hell out of each other, time dilation doing its thing, and everyone just go watch TV as nothing is achieved.
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 52	Posted - 2012.03.25 18:58:00 - [58] - Quote Sendo Jarix wrote: The problem with this is how do you balance it to scale from 30 people all the way up to 1000 ? My engineering mind thinks that a rising exponential function would be best suited. Its of the form, e ^ (-constant / variable) where, in this case, the variable would be the number of ships locking you, the constant indicates how fast the percentage rises. If you set the constant to 50, when 50 ships lock a target, there is a 37 percent chance that the target breaker will succeed. If you set the constant to 100, when 100 ships lock a target, there is a 37 percent chance that the target breaker will succeed. here are graphs with a constant of 75: From 0 to 300 From 0 to 1500 Note that the graph approaches 100 percent chance but never touches it. All one has to do is select a good constant.
Ris Dnalor Black Rebel Rifter Club 263	Posted - 2012.03.27 01:38:00 - [59] - Quote I look forward to there being a reward for diversifying targets. Save the Miners!
Neo Agricola BLACK-MARK 203	Posted - 2012.03.27 13:14:00 - [60] - Quote Ardamalis wrote: I searched around and I'm surprised that a topic on this hasn't been made already, but one of the things announced in the modules presentation was the concept of a target breaker module. Here is a quick run down of how it works: Each time the module cycles, it has a % chance to break and reset all other target locks on your ship from other ships. This % chance is extremely low, but for each additional ship that locks your own ship, the target breaker has a bigger % chance of breaking and resetting everyone's lock on you. So if you're fighting one person, chances are the module will have negligible effect. If there are 200 people in a massive fleet fight targeting you, then you're likely to almost always reset their locks. ... What does everyone else think? .... Great. This Modul will make Titans and Supers nearly invulnerable... No more 200 Maels shooting at one Super, one cycle of that module and they all lose lock... nice... DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.