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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.02 02:21:00 -
[1]
I'm not going to complain about The Assault in particular. I have this problem in more than one mission. But it is VERY noticable in The Assault with Guristas as the Jamming is excessive.
I've added an ECCM Mod (Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I) and pushed my Ladar strength on my Vargur up to 21 points but I still can't stop even one Pith rat from jamming. This doesn't seem right. Another ECCM mod would be a bit of compromise on my tank.
Except for Rigs which I don't have the slots for what other options do I have for ECCM that would be better than what I've done? (And don't tell my to fly another race ship 21 points should be good enough) |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 02:25:00 -
[2]
ECCM doesn't work against rats. |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 04:00:00 -
[3]
FoFs and drones. That's the only thing that works in that mission.
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.02 04:04:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Clair Bear
FoFs and drones. That's the only thing that works in that mission.
Thanks for the replies.
Truly unfortunate about FoF which I would use except the Vargur is a Turret ship and can't mount launchers. |
Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2008.09.03 17:25:00 -
[5]
Typically doing my missions with a logistics alt tagging along, I use a couple projected eccm's. Works just fine for me. *shrug*
note: Onieros & Navy Mega if that makes any difference.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.09.03 17:37:00 -
[6]
Dual accounts work very well for the missions with heavy dampening and ECM.
------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kritinana
Typically doing my missions with a logistics alt tagging along, I use a couple projected eccm's. Works just fine for me. *shrug*
note: Onieros & Navy Mega if that makes any difference.
So I'm being told ECCM on my own ship won't work and projected ECCM from an alt will.
I'll give that a try with an alt. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:22:00 -
[8]
No you are not being told that.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter
Originally by: Kritinana
Typically doing my missions with a logistics alt tagging along, I use a couple projected eccm's. Works just fine for me. *shrug*
note: Onieros & Navy Mega if that makes any difference.
So I'm being told ECCM on my own ship won't work and projected ECCM from an alt will.
I'll give that a try with an alt.
Well, i know that other guy said eccm's don't work on npc's, and tbh i have no clue wether he's right or not (unless he's thinking projected's included then i know he's wrong). I'm just saying from my own experience using two projected's from my alt has always worked just fine.
Though note my friend was complaining about this very mission last night and he was only using 1 eccm not 2, so that may be the magic number.
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.09.03 23:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kritinana
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter
Originally by: Kritinana
Typically doing my missions with a logistics alt tagging along, I use a couple projected eccm's. Works just fine for me. *shrug*
note: Onieros & Navy Mega if that makes any difference.
So I'm being told ECCM on my own ship won't work and projected ECCM from an alt will.
I'll give that a try with an alt.
Well, i know that other guy said eccm's don't work on npc's, and tbh i have no clue wether he's right or not (unless he's thinking projected's included then i know he's wrong). I'm just saying from my own experience using two projected's from my alt has always worked just fine.
Though note my friend was complaining about this very mission last night and he was only using 1 eccm not 2, so that may be the magic number.
Very true.
CCP is supposed to claim officially that jaming is chance based.
But me just like you have noticed that in practice ECCM works for some unexplicable reason.
All marauders have preety low sencor stregth. that means that whereareas you were good with 1 ECCM on a normal BS in a Marauder you need 2 ECCMs.
Now some may say i speak noncenses but trial and error has proved me so far that the ECCM truly helps. Try it for yourselves.
Speaking of witch... the Vargur sucks against Guristas.
Try them with a simple Raven using kinetic missiles and one ECCM. Works wonders. |
Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.09.04 04:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mr Friendly on 04/09/2008 04:10:14
I always thought rat ecm was chance based regardless of ship strength until I fitted an eccm and *seemed* to get jammed a lot less. I didn't spend much time testing it though before I quit missions altogether, so I don't really know. Also, it could be each new npc has the same likelihood to jam as a set, but has an individual probability of a jam. As such, you'd need to test the same mission npc spawn (instead of the same mission type, but a different spawn) with different setups to see if you get jammed as often or not. Good luck.
At least sensor boosters work on Serps (god I hate those buggers)---> oh, only 1.25 minutes to lock that 25k Elite Frigate once it gets within 11km's??! Thanks CCP:) Lol.
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Ashmira
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Posted - 2008.09.04 04:39:00 -
[12]
ECCM simply doesn't work against NPC's, period. Suggest drones and patience.
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Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2008.09.04 05:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ashmira
ECCM simply doesn't work against NPC's, period. Suggest drones and patience.
You can say this all you want, but since I started using them I've never (emphasize NEVER) been jammed by npcs while they're in use, over a period of serval months of missioning. And yes, this includes many many runs of 'the assault'.
you do the math.
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.04 15:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ashmira
ECCM simply doesn't work against NPC's, period. Suggest drones and patience.
I fit an alt with two projected ECCM and I WILL report back to this thread on the success or lack thereof after I get results from two or three jamming missions.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Relationships are ours to make; we define them,
day by day, by who we choose to love and how
we choose to love them. And, by these choices,
define ourselves. Richard N. Patterson |
Acheron Watcher
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Posted - 2008.09.04 16:14:00 -
[15]
I also noticed that ECCM and remote ECCM helps. Ofc since you don't know when a rat is trying to jam you but fails, no side can prove their claims in this debate.
But why wouldn't an ECCM work?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.04 17:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Acheron Watcher
I also noticed that ECCM and remote ECCM helps. Ofc since you don't know when a rat is trying to jam you but fails, no side can prove their claims in this debate.
But why wouldn't an ECCM work?
The exact quote from CCP on this is:
Quote:
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.
This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.
in this thread:
CCP on Signal strengths
Its about 2/3 of the way down the page. Basically unless they altered something, there is no difference. Which is why your Command Ships still get jammed in level 2 missions.
Now in the last couple of months I have noticed a considerable decrease in the success rate of jamming in most missions, so CCP has obviously tweeked something.
-------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.09.04 18:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Now in the last couple of months I have noticed a considerable decrease in the success rate of jamming in most missions, so CCP has obviously tweeked something.
not necessarily... ccp guy sez "not sig strength dependant" but never said "its NOT affected by the amount of eccm you fit".
it could as well be that: got one? 50% jammed. got two? 0% jammed. or something.
look at the npc cap mechanics (or at least how they always used to be since i can remember): you drain them to zero cap (should still work, even with % dependant nos), all the while you receive that cap. then theyre empty, and you cannot drain anymore. they still web you, scram you, pewpewlaz0r you. they still rep.
BUT supposedly the "rep chance" is lowered.
whoever knows how all this crap around npcs REALLY works from patch to patch... im not sure if theres one guy at ccp that knows, even 
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Slobodanka
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Posted - 2008.09.05 06:38:00 -
[18]
ECCM modules are not magic wands, all they do is raise your signal strength. Player ECM modules operate on ECM strength/sensor strength ratio, and NPC ECM works on chance only (that is unless CCP changed something in between).
Claiming that you never ever got jammed in 3 months doing pith missions is... well... unbelievable. Unless you fly mission against other pirates and not guristas.
BTW: I noticed that NPCs have tendency to leave you unjammed longer if you have less ships targeted... Ofcourse I have no proof of that, but if I don't go and target every dire NPC in room chances of me being jammed seem to be lower. Anyone wanna test this one out?
P.S.: NPCs don't fly same ships as players do; they have uber ECM, they have torps that fly 100+k, they have drones that do 3000m/s and web you from 90k away... and all that on ships equiped with T1 modules, sometimes even miners and stuff. Amazing...
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Kritinana
Minmatar
Jackie Treehorn Productions
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Posted - 2008.09.07 08:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Slobodanka
Claiming that you never ever got jammed in 3 months doing pith missions is... well... unbelievable. Unless you fly mission against other pirates and not guristas.
I didn't say I havn't been jammed in 3 months, i specifically said WHILE DUAL ECCMS ARE ACTIVE. I get jammed all the time before my alt warps in to turn on the juice. And yes, like i said already, the majority of my missions are against gurristas.
As far as 'unbelievable', sure, I really don't care who believes it or not. People should test stuff out for themselves. But the guy asked a question and I gave an answer based on my personal experience. I really don't know or care what the exact mechanics are of how ecm works, but based on what i've seen personally, people saying 'zomg eccms don't work on npcs PERIOD' are flat out incorrect.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.07 21:56:00 -
[20]
and I have barely been jammed recently in general so w/e
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Slobodanka
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Posted - 2008.09.08 06:58:00 -
[21]
Quote:
CCP Lingorm
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.
This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.
That is what CCP said.
This is what ECCM description says:
Quote:
ECCM Projectors utilize a sophisticated system of electronics to fortify the sensor strengths of an allied ship allowing it to overcome jamming.
Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized.
To make it even more weird: T2 ECCM projector increase targets sensor strength by 20%. According to EFT you can not change this % with skills, modules or implants. Flat 20%.
Now we have a situation where:
a) CCP is lying on public forums and giving out wrong informations.
b) You are full of faeces but are in so deep you can't get out.
I know CCP has done some (more like a lot...) morally questionable things in the past, but lying about this one doesn't give anyone any advantage... I vote for "b". And good luck with projected ECCM in your future endeavours.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.09.08 08:41:00 -
[22]
Do not blame ECCM, blame being lucky.
ECCM does not work against NPC rats. If it would they would not jam titans and motherships that are, as we all know, immune to all forms of electronic warfare.
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Clarence X
Enlightened Research and Logistics
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Posted - 2008.09.16 21:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Clarence X on 16/09/2008 21:31:14
When I use Conjunctive Gravimetric whatever on my caldari ships in missions, I get jammed less by Guristas.
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.17 01:23:00 -
[24]
A little early for me to report yet. I've not had enough missions with multiple Pith Jammers to make an assessment.
However, so far the ones I have had with jamming the projected ECCM did not seem to make a difference.
I did watch carefully for jamming attempts that failed but didn't see any more than I normally would. |
Chomapuraku
Caldari
Templar Republic
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Posted - 2008.09.17 16:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kritinana
Originally by: Slobodanka
Claiming that you never ever got jammed in 3 months doing pith missions is... well... unbelievable. Unless you fly mission against other pirates and not guristas.
I didn't say I havn't been jammed in 3 months, i specifically said WHILE DUAL ECCMS ARE ACTIVE. I get jammed all the time before my alt warps in to turn on the juice. And yes, like i said already, the majority of my missions are against gurristas.
As far as 'unbelievable', sure, I really don't care who believes it or not. People should test stuff out for themselves. But the guy asked a question and I gave an answer based on my personal experience. I really don't know or care what the exact mechanics are of how ecm works, but based on what i've seen personally, people saying 'zomg eccms don't work on npcs PERIOD' are flat out incorrect.
there are a number of reasons that eccm -appears- to do something against rats jamming you. you go to the trouble of hooking up an alt to project eccm onto you, and you believe that it helps, so you're going to pay less attention to the times you got jammed before your alt warped in (which is 90% of the times you get jammed anyway. right when the spawn first aggroes you and the five jamming cruisers all roll the dice at once) and more attention to your not being jammed after those first few cycles (at which point, if you have half a brain, you pop the jammers first).
you're talking about things like "from what i've seen" and "in my experience". did you sit down and crunch the numbers? if ECCM makes a difference, i should be getting jammed twice as often in my golem than in a raven, but lo and behold, it's pretty much the same every time.
the devs aren't gonna lie about the game mechanics like that. if they say NPC ECM is chance-based, it's chance-based. it works on a separate game mechanic from player ecm, so it is not counterable by eccm or projected eccm. the only effect it has on your being jammed is the placebo effect. fit two remote sensor boosters on your logistics alt instead and see what happens
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