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Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:52:00 - [1] Come on guys, blasters have sucked for too long and now they're getting another nerf. Hell the best pure tank/gank blaster boat going is caldari! Give our BS (hype/mega) more space for drones! Make sensor dampers useful again, for ANYTHING I don't care, make them good for mining or something for all I care but pls make them useful! Post it like you mean it, it worked for amarr!
Xevious Baltar Gallente Dark Ministry	Posted - 2008.09.02 11:53:00 - [2] You have got to be kidding me... If you think blasters suck, then you are doing something seriously wrong.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:02:00 - [3] If you think torps on a raven or blasters on a rokh aren't much better you're doing a lot wrong. Raven: + No cap usage + 30km range with normal ammo (lets face it, its gonna be a raven) + 900+ (from just torps) DPS while running 2 heavy neuts... + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment Rokh: + 30km Blaster range + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. Trouble is imo blasters don't do enough extra damage to make them viable over other close range weapons. Also drone ai still suck ass!
Snow Banshee	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:10:00 - [4] Actually none of the feared changes will be deplyed, so things are good as they are (imho). Blaster DPS is good, the problem is tracking , but until come feared "web + scrable + mass" change they are ballanced so no changes are needed. The fact that those changes will not come live during the next patch it means that CCP are aware of the problem. P.S) IMHO if blasters ( but also autocannons ) will be screwed by incoming changes mean that those need to be rebalanced, not that ships need to change their rule.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:29:00 - [5] Yeah, Gallente definitely need a boost. Problem: Caldari got everything - they have the Falcon and they have torp spitting Ravens of Doom. We Gallente have only our sucky drones and the Arazu. Fix: - 5 heavy drones/sentry drones should be able to do approximately the same dps like the Raven's torps. - Sensor dampeners should be as effective at denying targets as ECM! - Large blasters need at least an optimal range of 30 km Please CCP - Nano is nothing against this imbalance!!
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:57:00 - [6] hehe is this the first in the series of threads, just like the boost amarr campaign I am in, boost gallente!
Nerfmycap	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Wil Smithx Come on guys, blasters have sucked for too long and now they're getting another nerf. Hell the best pure tank/gank blaster boat going is caldari! Give our BS (hype/mega) more space for drones! Make sensor dampers useful again, for ANYTHING I don't care, make them good for mining or something for all I care but pls make them useful! Post it like you mean it, it worked for amarr! Ok. If you compare ECM to sensor damps then damps is obviously worse. A Falcon can permajam 2-3 ships while an Arazu can damp 1 ship so it cannot be locked, or leave itself vulnerable but dampen 3 targets to reduce their lockingrange somewhat (could be useful in a fleet engagement but the arazu have to be within 50km for it to even be useful which means you die, falcon can be at 200 off and almost completely safe. Blasters: damn good at pirating but well face it, pulse is better because it has a kind of medium range. A blasterboat tracks very badly sice little movement gives a huge transversal when your close up. Blaster have AWESOME DPS so they are not completely bad. In the age of nanof[insert the end of stupid word here, I'd suggest "leets"] having 1km optimal range is COMPLETELY worthless. Comparing a deimos to a zealot in the normal fleet fights in 0.0 where these ships could be used (nano fleet vs nanofleet or support vs supportfleet) the zealot is superior. With scorch and a tracking enhancer or two the range is amazing for a shortrange gank fit while the deimos (very heavy) will have trouble getting close enough to actually shoot something. Gallente in general: Sweet drones on ishtar and domi, if you have t2 sentries it's amazing. Blasters have bit failure range for common 0.0 warfare but pretty ok in a pirating point of view. Ships in general are pretty solid. All BS:es are useful, the thorax is a pretty mean gankmachine.. The recons are useful in some situations and can even work solo quite a bit but ofc having to be a bit picky with what to engage but so does other recons, bit weak in fleet warfare. HAC:s... Ishtar is amazing. Deimos bit weak in fleet warfare. Flying Gallente I specced towards Caldari's railgun ships. Not because gallente is weak but because I don't like to entrust my drones (ccp coded AI) with my DPS and security... Now flying Eagle (awesome longranged anti-support for the age of nano). Vulture (220km ranged eagle without powergrid issues and a better tank). Rokh (pro fleet sniper, easily DD tanked and when you want it.. loooong range or high dps, hell, slugging antimatter and ridiculous ranges ftw).
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:17:00 - [8] this forum would be somehow boring without trolls and useless posts
Red zeon Caldari Circle of Shadows Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:19:00 - [9] gallente got the anti assault frig af :P iskur, kills on sight domi with ownage neut and nos combo in highs, maybe some cap transfer, sucks anyone dry, lets face it, domi sucks a raven dry of cap and kills with drones before the raven with torps chews the domis armor, i fly raven, and dam i only llike won 1time over a domi in meh raven. in 1v1, if you dont got shield booster and resist, you dont stay alive long enough to kill domi solo, (good domi ofc) and if he sucks you dry you can tank for shit.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic this forum would be somehow boring without trolls and useless posts No, no, we're not trolling. As a matter of fact we're absolutely serious At least we're asking for a boost instead of a nerf - much nicer, isn't it?
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:39:00 - [11] Originally by: H Lecter No, no, we're not trolling. As a matter of fact we're absolutely serious At least we're asking for a boost instead of a nerf - much nicer, isn't it? Ammar boost ended up with explosion and em resists being nerfed. :) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
Noelle Fay SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:45:00 - [12] Hi. I'm an Arazu. I'd like to effectively use my form of EW like the Caldari and Amarr, but somehow my sensor dampening isn't as good as I thought it would be. Could I please have a bonus to sensor dampening strength of 10% rather than 5%? -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:48:00 - [13] Edited by: Omarvelous on 02/09/2008 14:48:47 Originally by: Wil Smithx If you think torps on a raven or blasters on a rokh aren't much better you're doing a lot wrong. Raven: + No cap usage + 30km range with normal ammo (lets face it, its gonna be a raven) + 900+ (from just torps) DPS while running 2 heavy neuts... + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment Rokh: + 30km Blaster range + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. Trouble is imo blasters don't do enough extra damage to make them viable over other close range weapons. Also drone ai still suck ass! Does your raven have a MWD? If so - there is NO way you can fire 900 DPS AND have 2 heavy neuts. Your examples gave two ships with no tackle. What are they providing their gang besides dps (Raven - Rokh blaster dps is not top notch)? I fit tackle gear on my BS - NOT because they are the gang's tacklers - but because they help sustain the tackle on a target - incase your gang's tackler gets jammed/or popped. Gallente blaster boats are able to tackle - and tank and throw out dps. They just have to get close for it. Albeit that is going to be much harder now. I'm not saying Gallente are not getting screwed pretty hard here - just saying, that you get to tank pretty hard while throwing a point on target - the Caldari ships you mentioned have to tackle OR tank. So maybe there needs to be a range bonus to compensate for that weakness... Tbh I would have left blaster boats alone - they're 1 trick ponies and if you make it any tougher to get into extremely short range the Gallente blaster pilot is pretty screwed (a pilot that probably has more skillpoints in gunnery than the average missile boat pilot has in missiles AND engineering). As a Caldari blaster boat - I feel your pain, but I'm still jealeous that I have to sacrifice tank to put a point on target. At least the range bonus helps us avoid the 'mandatory' aspect of having a web too. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:54:00 - [14] Fix minmatar first thanks
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:59:00 - [15] Boost gallente and then minmatar! *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:59:00 - [16] Originally by: AstroPhobic Fix minmatar first thanks I swear that if I see you post this one more time in one more thread, my brain might explode. Do you ever leave the forums and actually play Eve? :) ----- My Pirate Blog: http://evenewb.blogspot.com/ My Ransom Board: http://www.pcransomboard.com/
NightmareX MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:11:00 - [17] LOL, those who say that Minmatar doesn't need a boost might have an exploded brain already, because they can't use it to anything. Minmatar is the race that absolutely need a boost now. Well i'm not saying Minmatar is crap, i'm saying they are pretty ok, but could need a little boost anyways.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Omarvelous Does your raven have a MWD? Yes Originally by: Omarvelous If so - there is NO way you can fire 900 DPS AND have 2 heavy neuts. Fitting modsà Originally by: Omarvelous Your examples gave two ships with no tackle. What are they providing their gang besides dps (Raven - Rokh blaster dps is not top notch)? A lot of cap drain and I find this fairly good at ending stuff. Also switching to javelin torps is nice for hitting speed tanks after you hit them with double neuts. But its hard to time it well enough for them not to just flee. Originally by: Omarvelous I fit tackle gear on my BS - NOT because they are the gang's tacklers - but because they help sustain the tackle on a target - incase your gang's tackler gets jammed/or popped. We (my alliance) tend to use bubbles and most hacs fit points anyways. Originally by: Omarvelous Gallente blaster boats are able to tackle - and tank and throw out dps. They just have to get close for it. Albeit that is going to be much harder now. This is true. Originally by: Omarvelous I'm not saying Gallente are not getting screwed pretty hard here - just saying, that you get to tank pretty hard while throwing a point on target - the Caldari ships you mentioned have to tackle OR tank. They donÆt tank anything like caldari or amarr (would say maelstrom but people tend to flame me for it, I still donÆt really understand why) Originally by: Omarvelous So maybe there needs to be a range bonus to compensate for that weakness... That would be nice :D Originally by: Omarvelous Tbh I would have left blaster boats alone - they're 1 trick ponies and if you make it any tougher to get into extremely short range the Gallente blaster pilot is pretty screwed (a pilot that probably has more skillpoints in gunnery than the average missile boat pilot has in missiles AND engineering). As a Caldari blaster boat - I feel your pain, but I'm still jealeous that I have to sacrifice tank to put a point on target. At least the range bonus helps us avoid the 'mandatory' aspect of having a web too. I already have caldari BS 5 already, but I want to be able to use gallente ships because I much prefer them. Also IÆm quite proud of the fact that I have never flown a caldari battleship :D
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Wil Smithx TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. That's a pretty big qualification. Given 2 caldari pilots, you can have 1 raven and 1 tackler. Given two gallante pilots, you can have 2 megathrons. Where is your raven DPS now? That to the side, a megathron has versatility a raven can't match. But the raven is slightly more effective in it's niche... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:31:00 - [20] Originally by: AstroPhobic Fix minmatar first thanks This tbh. There's nothing wrong with Caldari ships that tracking computer scripts for missile velocity/explosion velocity wouldn't fix (F*ck the speed nerf) as long as they're flown to fit their niche. But minmatar ships really need some love - especially the poor battleships. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Wil Smithx TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. That's a pretty big qualification. Given 2 caldari pilots, you can have 1 raven and 1 tackler. Given two gallante pilots, you can have 2 megathrons. Where is your raven DPS now? That to the side, a megathron has versatility a raven can't match. But the raven is slightly more effective in it's niche... My personal opinion is that the raven is more versatile than a megathon due to the 2 utility high slots and the fact that it can (albeit badly) armour tank and carry a massive amount of EW in meds. Imagine an armour tanked raven with tracking disruptors and an armour plate tank with 2 smarts in the highs along with its tackler against your megathrons now - that is what I call versatility. That said a raven can't snipe...
Nerfmycap	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:05:00 - [22] Edited by: Nerfmycap on 02/09/2008 16:06:27 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic Fix minmatar first thanks This tbh. There's nothing wrong with Caldari ships that tracking computer scripts for missile velocity/explosion velocity wouldn't fix (F*ck the speed nerf) as long as they're flown to fit their niche. But minmatar ships really need some love - especially the poor battleships. You'd think a max cerb could deal damage to nano HAC's with 2x Explosion velocity rigs and almost maxed skills (expl velocity maxed ofc, among other..), atleast a bit. But no. It deals roughly 0.1 dmg to a MWD:ing hac doing 5km/s+. All other medium weapons can atleast somewhat track and deal damage to cruisersized nanoships within their intended optimal range (longrange weapons at medium to long range, shortrange weapons at relatively short range). But cerb can indeed hit rapiers and the ppl that doesn't fly nanoships properly (either no claymore or no implants/boosters/pimped nanomods).
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:11:00 - [23] Fit your cerb with AML's and watch it hit for more than .1 damage. It's no big surprise that you won't hit for jack with HML's, because heavy precisions suck. Light precisions, on the other hand, are quite nice.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:14:00 - [24] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 02/09/2008 16:14:37 Originally by: Malcanis That's a pretty big qualification. Given 2 caldari pilots, you can have 1 raven and 1 tackler. Given two gallante pilots, you can have 2 megathrons. Where is your raven DPS now? That to the side, a megathron has versatility a raven can't match. But the raven is slightly more effective in it's niche... I agree, PvP is more than one-on-one. But since so many people tend to focus on that, let's have a look: 1. Torp Damage out to 30km 2. Good tank 3. Tackle 4. Target Painter Pick three and put them on a PvP Raven. Without 1, 3, and 4 your solo DPS will be lousy because your targets will leave or you won't do full torp damage. Something that a lot of people tend to forget is that in order to get that lovely EFT Torp damage, even against most battleships, you need a target painter. A Torp Raven without a Target Painter does less-than-stellar DPS against anything aside from Tier 3 battleships, Capital ships, or anything stupid enough to keep a MWD on whilst webbed. You can't have a Raven doing full torp damage (i.e. torps + TP), tackling, and sporting a good tank all at the same time. Seems fairly balanced to me. EDIT: In other words, Malcanis is right even if you don't consider a 2v2. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Nerfmycap You'd think a max cerb could deal damage to nano HAC's with 2x Explosion velocity rigs and almost maxed skills (expl velocity maxed ofc, among other..), atleast a bit. But no. It deals roughly 0.1 dmg to a MWD:ing hac doing 5km/s+. All other medium weapons can atleast somewhat track and deal damage to cruisersized nanoships within their intended optimal range (longrange weapons at medium to long range, shortrange weapons at relatively short range). But cerb can indeed hit rapiers and the ppl that doesn't fly nanoships properly (either no claymore or no implants/boosters/pimped nanomods). Caracals! with normal lights, hurt my interceptor a lot while I'm orbitting at around 5km/s.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:22:00 - [26] Oh god. Did you really just post that the Gallente need a buff because the Raven is too good in PVP? Up is down! Black is white! EVE RELATED CONTENT
Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Wil Smithx If you think torps on a raven or blasters on a rokh aren't much better you're doing a lot wrong. Raven: + No cap usage + 30km range with normal ammo (lets face it, its gonna be a raven) + 900+ (from just torps) DPS while running 2 heavy neuts... + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment Rokh: + 30km Blaster range + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. Trouble is imo blasters don't do enough extra damage to make them viable over other close range weapons. Also drone ai still suck ass! True, quote for life! (sadly)
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Bronson Hughes I agree, PvP is more than one-on-one. But since so many people tend to focus on that, let's have a look: 1. Torp Damage out to 30km 2. Good tank 3. Tackle 4. Target Painter Pick three and put them on a PvP Raven. Without 1, 3, and 4 your solo DPS will be lousy because your targets will leave or you won't do full torp damage. Something that a lot of people tend to forget is that in order to get that lovely EFT Torp damage, even against most battleships, you need a target painter. A Torp Raven without a Target Painter does less-than-stellar DPS against anything aside from Tier 3 battleships, Capital ships, or anything stupid enough to keep a MWD on whilst webbed. You can't have a Raven doing full torp damage (i.e. torps + TP), tackling, and sporting a good tank all at the same time. Seems fairly balanced to me. EDIT: In other words, Malcanis is right even if you don't consider a 2v2. And blasters never miss do they When you're using blasters, you are fighting in falloff. And if you're not fighting in falloff your tracking is screwed, so your EFT damage isn't anything close to what you see either. Not to mention a large portion of the megathrons damage is in drones and I for one almost always fit a smartbomb to a pvp ship just for killing drones. AND when your megathron runs out of booster charges, you wont have enough cap to run your guns... Also you can fit a target painter and just sacrifice a little buffer or the mwd, since the torps go 27km anyway on a gate they will always be in range. Fact is the poor old mega has seen better days, I doubt a full gank mega could do anything to a raven now. And thats a sad day.
Arkadrel	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:58:00 - [29] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic Fix minmatar first thanks This tbh. There's nothing wrong with Caldari ships that tracking computer scripts for missile velocity/explosion velocity wouldn't fix (F*ck the speed nerf) as long as they're flown to fit their niche. But minmatar ships really need some love - especially the poor battleships. YES! fix min BS before anything else please. boost to minmatar before gallente too btw, and please dont make caldari THE best mission runner and pvp ships in the game (along with haveing the best starting attributies of any race).
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Wil Smithx And blasters never miss do they They most certainly do, but any blaster Mega pilot worth his salt will fit a web or two to help with tracking issues. My point was that I see a lot of torp Raven pilots not fitting target painters the same way that Mega pilots fit webs so the perception of "Tank & Gank from 30km" is slightly skewed. Originally by: Wil Smithx other points... Fact is the poor old mega has seen better days, I doubt a full gank mega could do anything to a raven now. And thats a sad day. You do have very valid points. While I don't think that Gallente necessarily need a boost (assuming that the nano-nerf doesn't mess up blaster boats), they're certainly not king of the hill anymore. If a blaster Mega has to MWD through torp range to get to a torp Raven, that Mega will probably get eaten alive even if the Raven doesn't have a target painter. If a blaster Mega manages to warp in right beside a torp Raven, it's the Raven that is likely going down. Everything in between is something of a toss-up. Again, seems fairly balanced to me. A well-fit Pulse Apoc could likely screw either of them under the right circumstances though. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne

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