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Am I not playing EVe the right way??

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Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:25:00 - [1] I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear?
Valrandir Gallente Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:26:00 - [2] Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? Do not stay in safe areas, it will teach you little. Keep trying! If BC are to expensive switch to cruisers. This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
Benco97 Gallente The Star League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:27:00 - [3] Just practice, that's all you need. Try doing it in more easily affordable ships if you like so that you'll not be so risk-averse. You'll soon get the hang of it. You'll gradually get to know what to do and where and what you should be in at the time. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:28:00 - [4] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 03/09/2008 14:28:40 It's not about the ship, hull size, fittings/rigs, or skillpoints... It's about YOU.
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:29:00 - [5] Start off small, so frigates. Rifter is a great frig for solo pvp when ya just starting. Learn to use your scanner, theres a thread somewhere around here, just search it. ----------------------------
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:32:00 - [6] Edited by: Maria Kalista on 03/09/2008 14:32:02 Meh, just join us carebears, PvP is overrated (and dead by some whiners on these forums) anyway. :) --- Serious now.. You could try to get a PvP course from agony unleased Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:34:00 - [7] IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent My last ship loss I was running away from a typhoon that happened upon me and I was sitting in a sniping ferox and I jumped through the gate and he jumped through as well... as luck would have it he jumped through and ended up right next to me but in between me and the gate so I could not warp nor could I get back to the gate nor because it was a sniping setup could I tank it so I simply pinned me there, (for some reason my ship wouldn't even turn towards the gate) and blew me up
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 03/09/2008 14:41:48 First off, kudos to you for continuing to try. A lot of people I've talked to tried PvP once or twice, failed miserably to more experienced opponents, and then quit. There's a lot going on in any PvP fight and you have to keep track of all of it in order to be successful. Who is your target? What are they capable of? What are you capable of? Is that person who just entered local going to jump us or not? The list goes on and on. Mind you, this is not an attempt to scare you away. To the contrary, you just need to practice more so that everything going on around you becomes second nature. I have three sugegstions for you: 1. Switch to smaller ships. Early on while you're learning you will lose ships. Period. There's no way around it, so it's better to soften the blow financially by learning in less expensive ships. 2. Make sure that your ships are fit properly. Ask your gangmates what they need you to do; do they need you to tackle your target, act as bait and tank a lot of damage, or just dish out the damage yourself?. Training fitting and support skills will make it easier to fit your ships. 3. Keep asking questions. There are no dumb questions as long as you are relly trying to learn. You may get flamed on the forums for asking noob questions, but eventually someone will answer you and having an answer is better than not. Keep it up. Once you get comfortable with PvP it's a lot of fun. EDIT: Originally by: Commander Yassir IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent This is not necessarily true. Although the engagement you mentioned seems to favor your opponent (PvP 'Phoon vs sniping Ferox), the bigger, better-equipped ship does not always win. The confidence, patience, and ability of the person sitting behind the keyboard matters at leats as much as what ship you're in and how it's fit. Many good PvPers will take on ships bigger than the ones they are in and win because they know what they can do and what their opponent's limitations are. Also, suggestion #4: Learn how to pick your fights. That lesson above all will help you out with PvP. If you find an opponent that you can't beat, don't engage. If you're sitting on a gate waiting for targets, make sure you have friends with you so you're less likely to get overwhelmed. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:39:00 - [9] PVP in Eve takes practice and good skills, both in terms of experience and SP. First off, make sure your gunnery skills are good or your guns are no better than pea shooters. Secondly, make sure your setup is right for PVP in the ship you are using, most PVPers will point you in the right direction for that if you approach them and ask. There is also a forum for ship fitting tips, it might be wise for you to go there. Nobody is "cut out" for PVP, it takes a lot of practice to become good and the best have been doing it for a long time. Expect a lot of losses while you learn and accept advice about setups and the best ships to use when it's offered. Ask people for advice, even those who have just killed you, you'll find they want to pass on their knowledge of the game. Most of all, don't get worked up and start smack talking if you lose a ship, talk nicely to your opponent, be civil and they will be more likely to help you with advice and tips. Finally, don't go doing PVP in a BC unless your skills to fly it are very good. For a new player, a BC is too slow and cumbersome to be any use, you would probably be better off in a cruiser which is far more agile, (and less expensive to lose). -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:39:00 - [10] Several solutions to this.... Start of small. Fit the best frigate or cruiser you can, and focus on smaller targets. For bigger targets you might want to use some sort of Electronic Warfare or sensor disruption to help out your gang members. Train your skills and be more focused and specialized in weapons and armor than trying to fly bigger ships. Bigger ships arent always the best for the job. Max out your offense and defense, then start flying the ships. Tell us what race ships you fly and what skills youre training and we may be able to help you more.
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:40:00 - [11] ok thanks for your suggestion... Now where to get about 20 suicide kessies and fittings....
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:41:00 - [12] I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Commander Yassir IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent My last ship loss I was running away from a typhoon that happened upon me and I was sitting in a sniping ferox and I jumped through the gate and he jumped through as well... as luck would have it he jumped through and ended up right next to me but in between me and the gate so I could not warp nor could I get back to the gate nor because it was a sniping setup could I tank it so I simply pinned me there, (for some reason my ship wouldn't even turn towards the gate) and blew me up Experience would've helped you here. Should've forced him to aggro you on the gate and then bailed. This is done easily enough: try to warp away from the gate you're gonna jump through. Soon as he sees you begin to align, he'll pretty much have to scram you. When he does, you just jump instead. But the advice given by most here is sound: fly frigates. Not just because they're cheap, but because you'll learn actual piloting as well. The finer aspects of staying close but out of web range, keeping up transversal, reading other peoples' orbits, knowing when it's time to bail out, all kinds of good stuff that can make the difference in larger ships as well.
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:43:00 - [14] Also, flying a battlecruiser isnt reccomended unless you have Battlecruiser Level 5. They are very very slow and you will get better resistance bonuses depending on what ship you fly
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Commander Yassir on 03/09/2008 14:45:35 Alright I will remember that gate escape trick thanks. As for pvp classes from Agony, well they don't like me or my alliance much...well at all really. But if you have battleship 5 then you should also prolly have the ability to fit all t2 modules so why not just fly a t2 fitted command ship? Oh wait....I don't have frig 5 wither, can I not fly frigs... or maybe I should just train up for a cloaking device and then fit that to all the ships I fly...
cpu939 Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:45:00 - [16] if your just starting off in pvp might i recomend a pvp school just to get you use to fittings and what not.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Commander Yassir I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins? In general, sniping ships (not just Caldari ones) have fairly limited roles in PvP. Their job is to deal instant damage at long ranges and they do that very well, but if someone gets close to them they're in trouble. They're okay to use with a gang to support you (i.e. gang on the gate camping it, you sitting 70km off or so), but don't use them solo unless you really know what you're doing. One thing you may want to try is fitting blasters instead of railguns. Much shorter range, much higher damage, same skill requirements as railguns. A MWD/rocket/blaster Merlin can be a tough little cookie. A rocket Kestrel is also a very good choice for Caldari flyers. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Leviathan9 Start off small, so frigates. Rifter is a great frig for solo pvp when ya just starting. Learn to use your scanner, theres a thread somewhere around here, just search it. This. It really is all about practice. Well, and knowing your ships, the other ships you might encounter, your fittings, etc. ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:49:00 - [19] Ive heard from other pilots that Caldari werent good for PvP but Ive never seen proof of this so i tell them to STFU. You might want to practice in smaller ships first as someone reccomended. Knowing how to align, orbit and bail out are key to pvp. especially bailing out when you dont have a chance. If i were you since you are caldari, Id get more familiar with the Blackbird. Its variant the Rook and Falcon are deadly Pvp ships. They use Ewar modules to jam ships. How can you shoot something you cant lock? Yeah I reccomend training to fly The Caldari Force Recons as best as possible. They can perma jam anything but a titan or mothership. Go for Caldari Force Recons
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:00:00 - [20] Protip: try to tackle in frigates. Less loss on your end (in ships and/or isk if the ship pops, as frigates are quite replacable and/or maneuverable) for your gang. web scrambling is a vital part of PvP, and if you learn that, you have a stable base to work off on to branch out. -
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Shanur on 03/09/2008 15:05:29 Originally by: Commander Yassir But if you have battleship 5 then you should also prolly have the ability to fit all t2 modules so why not just fly a t2 fitted command ship? Oh wait....I don't have frig 5 wither, can I not fly frigs... or maybe I should just train up for a cloaking device and then fit that to all the ships I fly... You are right that it is often better to fly a T2 version of a smaller size class ship than a larger ship (except for the price. A T1 battleship is much cheaper than a properly fitted command ship), one of the reasons HAC's are such popular ships in PvP. They are still fairly fast and agile while packing as much punch as a regular BC. Smaller ships tend to be designed to be more forgiving of not having all necessary support skills up to snuff than their larger counterparts are. They rely more on their speed and small size to survive than on brute force, and brute force is where the dependence on skills really kicks in. And the other argument for small ships wals already given several times: You WILL lose ships while you learn how to fight and how to pick the fights you can win. Might as well lose ships that cost chump change to replace instead of BC's that take a noticable bite out of your wallet to fit a replacement for. If you want to snipe in Caldari ships i'd suggest the Merlin. Kestrels can do fairly well with rockets, but that's strictly an in your face style of fighting where the impact delay for missiles doesn't matter as much.
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? Those guys that know what they are doing were where you are now at some point. And it takes more the twice to get the hang of it. Bigger ships are not always better. And nano is not always the answer. A guy in a slow ass thorax can deliver a hell of a lot of pain. Blackbird's can just ruin some ones day. Cheap ass slow ships can and do work. Its about the choices you make. And your choices will change as you go out more and more. And then you will have a guy you fly with asking you "How do you know what to do?" And you will smile and give him the "Birds and the Bee's" spiel.
Zeknichov Realm Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:10:00 - [23] Edited by: Zeknichov on 03/09/2008 15:10:25 The only way to play EVE is to have three accounts. Account 1 - Your main in some 0.0 alliance that flies carriers but you never log on because you hate POS warfare. Account 2 - Your Datacore farming alt that dabbles in invention and tech1 ship production. Account 3 - Your Jita trade alt that also has a secondary PvP char which you use to kill newbies doing FW. Then just sit on account 3 making trades or ganking n00bs in tama while talking about EVE and the good old days in random chat channels with good buddies of yours.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:10:00 - [24] Begin with smaller ships first. Frigs can do an awesome job. And if not, nothing much is lost! They are fast and cheap, great for tacking big, slow ships - keep them webbed and scrambled. Or you could try cruisers, they are more expensive though. Battlecruisers? To expensive to start with! Just start with frigs! And ask your corp mates for advice. If they frown at you because of this, leave corp and join some more newbie friendly corp. If your are not cut for pvp? Well, you will lose ships. If that worries you and if you don't like this, then you shouldn't do pvp. Otherwise, if you can have a good laugh because of the fun you had even when you lost a ship, yes, then you are made for pvp
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:15:00 - [25] I suppose the general consensus is use frigs and i guess you guys are right, whenever I flew figs and lost them it was fun and fine because they are not worth much however losing battlecriusers is not fun.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Commander Yassir I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins? I think thats your first mistake to be honest. Caldari ships are not very flexible in fittings and roles to play in pvp. Missles are sub-par. Rails do too little damage and shoot further then you really need to, but they make great ECM boats. Overall, Amarr and Gallente have a really good gang/solo pvp balance. Minmatar do well solo, but lack something for gang (because artis are really sucky). So you really are stepping into the race we spend more time killing. Overall Caldari are good at PvP, but I would never wish it on anyone. Caldari tend to lose more ships learning how to pvp because they have such inferior ships for pvp outside of those very narrow specilizations. . .of which only ECM is really that useful. ----
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:18:00 - [27] I trained gallente for a little while and I have fairly good skills in armor tank so maybe back to gallente?
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 03/09/2008 14:32:02 Meh, just join us carebears, PvP is overrated (and dead by some whiners on these forums) anyway. :) --- Serious now.. You could try to get a PvP course from agony unleased learning how to cloak and safespot with wcs fitted isnt really pvp :P
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:23:00 - [29] The only rule to pvp is never fly what you cannot afford to lose. So with that in mind fly what you want and dont be scared to try something new or ask for advice. This is how I learned, at first my setups were laughable but as time went on I got better and better. I now generaly only fly retributions in pvp as its my favorate ship. Most would laugh at my choice but I find it fun to fly and not all that shabby and realy thats what counts.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Diversity 101	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:23:00 - [30] There's fitting suggestions for all kinds of ships at battleclinic, and the suggestions that people leave behind are usually constructive and polite. Whatever it is you can currently bring to your gang, will be important, even if it's just a frigate/cruiser that flies around the enemy, if you can use target painter, webber or warp jammer it WILL make a difference. If you can use ECM all the better as it means someone else could add more damage/tank to their own ship. Don't be afraid to lose ships. Also use a combination of Eve Mon and the battleclinic load outs to see what skills would be better to train sooner than later. Just remember it's not just about being able to fit ecm bursts or smart bombs if during the heat of battle you forget to turn them on (I've only did this once and got my jamming kestrel blown out of the sky by a few t2 drones, so embarrassing). Anyway after the engagements, win or lose talk to your gang mates ask them questions about what they were doing and why they did it. Speak to the FC AFTER the engagement to understand why he called that ship primary before any other, and look at the market and read descriptions about other racial ships you come across to understand what their bonus's are and where their weaknesses lie. PvP'ing in Battlecruisers and indeed command ships require medium size modules and weapons. A much faster training time than you need for a T2 fitted Battleship, and with the exception of the Command Ship class, it'll be cheaper to fit, maintain and replace. Saying that though, I doubt you need to get into anything higher than a cruiser for the time being. What I like to call tiertary ship skills, which consists of the skills that improve power grid, aligity, cpu, shield/armour bonus's are all very very important to squeeze every 0.01% ability out of whatever ship you're flying too. Then comes the bonus's for the weapon platforms you're going for on top of it. Finally add on top of that implants for extra damage, lower cpu, faster rate of fire and well, it's expensive but could make all the difference. Keep turning up in your gang with ships you can afford to fit and lose keep asking questions and eventually the penny will drop in place and you'll get to like blowing other people up. Life is about memories the more the better. http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp)

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