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Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:25:00 - [1] I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear?
Valrandir Gallente Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:26:00 - [2] Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? Do not stay in safe areas, it will teach you little. Keep trying! If BC are to expensive switch to cruisers. This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
Benco97 Gallente The Star League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:27:00 - [3] Just practice, that's all you need. Try doing it in more easily affordable ships if you like so that you'll not be so risk-averse. You'll soon get the hang of it. You'll gradually get to know what to do and where and what you should be in at the time. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:28:00 - [4] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 03/09/2008 14:28:40 It's not about the ship, hull size, fittings/rigs, or skillpoints... It's about YOU.
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:29:00 - [5] Start off small, so frigates. Rifter is a great frig for solo pvp when ya just starting. Learn to use your scanner, theres a thread somewhere around here, just search it. ----------------------------
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:32:00 - [6] Edited by: Maria Kalista on 03/09/2008 14:32:02 Meh, just join us carebears, PvP is overrated (and dead by some whiners on these forums) anyway. :) --- Serious now.. You could try to get a PvP course from agony unleased Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:34:00 - [7] IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent My last ship loss I was running away from a typhoon that happened upon me and I was sitting in a sniping ferox and I jumped through the gate and he jumped through as well... as luck would have it he jumped through and ended up right next to me but in between me and the gate so I could not warp nor could I get back to the gate nor because it was a sniping setup could I tank it so I simply pinned me there, (for some reason my ship wouldn't even turn towards the gate) and blew me up
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 03/09/2008 14:41:48 First off, kudos to you for continuing to try. A lot of people I've talked to tried PvP once or twice, failed miserably to more experienced opponents, and then quit. There's a lot going on in any PvP fight and you have to keep track of all of it in order to be successful. Who is your target? What are they capable of? What are you capable of? Is that person who just entered local going to jump us or not? The list goes on and on. Mind you, this is not an attempt to scare you away. To the contrary, you just need to practice more so that everything going on around you becomes second nature. I have three sugegstions for you: 1. Switch to smaller ships. Early on while you're learning you will lose ships. Period. There's no way around it, so it's better to soften the blow financially by learning in less expensive ships. 2. Make sure that your ships are fit properly. Ask your gangmates what they need you to do; do they need you to tackle your target, act as bait and tank a lot of damage, or just dish out the damage yourself?. Training fitting and support skills will make it easier to fit your ships. 3. Keep asking questions. There are no dumb questions as long as you are relly trying to learn. You may get flamed on the forums for asking noob questions, but eventually someone will answer you and having an answer is better than not. Keep it up. Once you get comfortable with PvP it's a lot of fun. EDIT: Originally by: Commander Yassir IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent This is not necessarily true. Although the engagement you mentioned seems to favor your opponent (PvP 'Phoon vs sniping Ferox), the bigger, better-equipped ship does not always win. The confidence, patience, and ability of the person sitting behind the keyboard matters at leats as much as what ship you're in and how it's fit. Many good PvPers will take on ships bigger than the ones they are in and win because they know what they can do and what their opponent's limitations are. Also, suggestion #4: Learn how to pick your fights. That lesson above all will help you out with PvP. If you find an opponent that you can't beat, don't engage. If you're sitting on a gate waiting for targets, make sure you have friends with you so you're less likely to get overwhelmed. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:39:00 - [9] PVP in Eve takes practice and good skills, both in terms of experience and SP. First off, make sure your gunnery skills are good or your guns are no better than pea shooters. Secondly, make sure your setup is right for PVP in the ship you are using, most PVPers will point you in the right direction for that if you approach them and ask. There is also a forum for ship fitting tips, it might be wise for you to go there. Nobody is "cut out" for PVP, it takes a lot of practice to become good and the best have been doing it for a long time. Expect a lot of losses while you learn and accept advice about setups and the best ships to use when it's offered. Ask people for advice, even those who have just killed you, you'll find they want to pass on their knowledge of the game. Most of all, don't get worked up and start smack talking if you lose a ship, talk nicely to your opponent, be civil and they will be more likely to help you with advice and tips. Finally, don't go doing PVP in a BC unless your skills to fly it are very good. For a new player, a BC is too slow and cumbersome to be any use, you would probably be better off in a cruiser which is far more agile, (and less expensive to lose). -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:39:00 - [10] Several solutions to this.... Start of small. Fit the best frigate or cruiser you can, and focus on smaller targets. For bigger targets you might want to use some sort of Electronic Warfare or sensor disruption to help out your gang members. Train your skills and be more focused and specialized in weapons and armor than trying to fly bigger ships. Bigger ships arent always the best for the job. Max out your offense and defense, then start flying the ships. Tell us what race ships you fly and what skills youre training and we may be able to help you more.
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:40:00 - [11] ok thanks for your suggestion... Now where to get about 20 suicide kessies and fittings....
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:41:00 - [12] I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Commander Yassir IT just seems to me that to be a pvper you have to be in a bigger ship with better modules and more skills then your opponent My last ship loss I was running away from a typhoon that happened upon me and I was sitting in a sniping ferox and I jumped through the gate and he jumped through as well... as luck would have it he jumped through and ended up right next to me but in between me and the gate so I could not warp nor could I get back to the gate nor because it was a sniping setup could I tank it so I simply pinned me there, (for some reason my ship wouldn't even turn towards the gate) and blew me up Experience would've helped you here. Should've forced him to aggro you on the gate and then bailed. This is done easily enough: try to warp away from the gate you're gonna jump through. Soon as he sees you begin to align, he'll pretty much have to scram you. When he does, you just jump instead. But the advice given by most here is sound: fly frigates. Not just because they're cheap, but because you'll learn actual piloting as well. The finer aspects of staying close but out of web range, keeping up transversal, reading other peoples' orbits, knowing when it's time to bail out, all kinds of good stuff that can make the difference in larger ships as well.
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:43:00 - [14] Also, flying a battlecruiser isnt reccomended unless you have Battlecruiser Level 5. They are very very slow and you will get better resistance bonuses depending on what ship you fly
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Commander Yassir on 03/09/2008 14:45:35 Alright I will remember that gate escape trick thanks. As for pvp classes from Agony, well they don't like me or my alliance much...well at all really. But if you have battleship 5 then you should also prolly have the ability to fit all t2 modules so why not just fly a t2 fitted command ship? Oh wait....I don't have frig 5 wither, can I not fly frigs... or maybe I should just train up for a cloaking device and then fit that to all the ships I fly...
cpu939 Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:45:00 - [16] if your just starting off in pvp might i recomend a pvp school just to get you use to fittings and what not.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Commander Yassir I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins? In general, sniping ships (not just Caldari ones) have fairly limited roles in PvP. Their job is to deal instant damage at long ranges and they do that very well, but if someone gets close to them they're in trouble. They're okay to use with a gang to support you (i.e. gang on the gate camping it, you sitting 70km off or so), but don't use them solo unless you really know what you're doing. One thing you may want to try is fitting blasters instead of railguns. Much shorter range, much higher damage, same skill requirements as railguns. A MWD/rocket/blaster Merlin can be a tough little cookie. A rocket Kestrel is also a very good choice for Caldari flyers. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Leviathan9 Start off small, so frigates. Rifter is a great frig for solo pvp when ya just starting. Learn to use your scanner, theres a thread somewhere around here, just search it. This. It really is all about practice. Well, and knowing your ships, the other ships you might encounter, your fittings, etc. ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:49:00 - [19] Ive heard from other pilots that Caldari werent good for PvP but Ive never seen proof of this so i tell them to STFU. You might want to practice in smaller ships first as someone reccomended. Knowing how to align, orbit and bail out are key to pvp. especially bailing out when you dont have a chance. If i were you since you are caldari, Id get more familiar with the Blackbird. Its variant the Rook and Falcon are deadly Pvp ships. They use Ewar modules to jam ships. How can you shoot something you cant lock? Yeah I reccomend training to fly The Caldari Force Recons as best as possible. They can perma jam anything but a titan or mothership. Go for Caldari Force Recons
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:00:00 - [20] Protip: try to tackle in frigates. Less loss on your end (in ships and/or isk if the ship pops, as frigates are quite replacable and/or maneuverable) for your gang. web scrambling is a vital part of PvP, and if you learn that, you have a stable base to work off on to branch out. -
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Shanur on 03/09/2008 15:05:29 Originally by: Commander Yassir But if you have battleship 5 then you should also prolly have the ability to fit all t2 modules so why not just fly a t2 fitted command ship? Oh wait....I don't have frig 5 wither, can I not fly frigs... or maybe I should just train up for a cloaking device and then fit that to all the ships I fly... You are right that it is often better to fly a T2 version of a smaller size class ship than a larger ship (except for the price. A T1 battleship is much cheaper than a properly fitted command ship), one of the reasons HAC's are such popular ships in PvP. They are still fairly fast and agile while packing as much punch as a regular BC. Smaller ships tend to be designed to be more forgiving of not having all necessary support skills up to snuff than their larger counterparts are. They rely more on their speed and small size to survive than on brute force, and brute force is where the dependence on skills really kicks in. And the other argument for small ships wals already given several times: You WILL lose ships while you learn how to fight and how to pick the fights you can win. Might as well lose ships that cost chump change to replace instead of BC's that take a noticable bite out of your wallet to fit a replacement for. If you want to snipe in Caldari ships i'd suggest the Merlin. Kestrels can do fairly well with rockets, but that's strictly an in your face style of fighting where the impact delay for missiles doesn't matter as much.
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? Those guys that know what they are doing were where you are now at some point. And it takes more the twice to get the hang of it. Bigger ships are not always better. And nano is not always the answer. A guy in a slow ass thorax can deliver a hell of a lot of pain. Blackbird's can just ruin some ones day. Cheap ass slow ships can and do work. Its about the choices you make. And your choices will change as you go out more and more. And then you will have a guy you fly with asking you "How do you know what to do?" And you will smile and give him the "Birds and the Bee's" spiel.
Zeknichov Realm Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:10:00 - [23] Edited by: Zeknichov on 03/09/2008 15:10:25 The only way to play EVE is to have three accounts. Account 1 - Your main in some 0.0 alliance that flies carriers but you never log on because you hate POS warfare. Account 2 - Your Datacore farming alt that dabbles in invention and tech1 ship production. Account 3 - Your Jita trade alt that also has a secondary PvP char which you use to kill newbies doing FW. Then just sit on account 3 making trades or ganking n00bs in tama while talking about EVE and the good old days in random chat channels with good buddies of yours.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:10:00 - [24] Begin with smaller ships first. Frigs can do an awesome job. And if not, nothing much is lost! They are fast and cheap, great for tacking big, slow ships - keep them webbed and scrambled. Or you could try cruisers, they are more expensive though. Battlecruisers? To expensive to start with! Just start with frigs! And ask your corp mates for advice. If they frown at you because of this, leave corp and join some more newbie friendly corp. If your are not cut for pvp? Well, you will lose ships. If that worries you and if you don't like this, then you shouldn't do pvp. Otherwise, if you can have a good laugh because of the fun you had even when you lost a ship, yes, then you are made for pvp
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:15:00 - [25] I suppose the general consensus is use frigs and i guess you guys are right, whenever I flew figs and lost them it was fun and fine because they are not worth much however losing battlecriusers is not fun.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Commander Yassir I fly caldari and I am trying to train for sniping ships i.e. ferox moa and rohk so maybe suicide merlins? I think thats your first mistake to be honest. Caldari ships are not very flexible in fittings and roles to play in pvp. Missles are sub-par. Rails do too little damage and shoot further then you really need to, but they make great ECM boats. Overall, Amarr and Gallente have a really good gang/solo pvp balance. Minmatar do well solo, but lack something for gang (because artis are really sucky). So you really are stepping into the race we spend more time killing. Overall Caldari are good at PvP, but I would never wish it on anyone. Caldari tend to lose more ships learning how to pvp because they have such inferior ships for pvp outside of those very narrow specilizations. . .of which only ECM is really that useful. ----
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:18:00 - [27] I trained gallente for a little while and I have fairly good skills in armor tank so maybe back to gallente?
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 03/09/2008 14:32:02 Meh, just join us carebears, PvP is overrated (and dead by some whiners on these forums) anyway. :) --- Serious now.. You could try to get a PvP course from agony unleased learning how to cloak and safespot with wcs fitted isnt really pvp :P
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:23:00 - [29] The only rule to pvp is never fly what you cannot afford to lose. So with that in mind fly what you want and dont be scared to try something new or ask for advice. This is how I learned, at first my setups were laughable but as time went on I got better and better. I now generaly only fly retributions in pvp as its my favorate ship. Most would laugh at my choice but I find it fun to fly and not all that shabby and realy thats what counts.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Diversity 101	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:23:00 - [30] There's fitting suggestions for all kinds of ships at battleclinic, and the suggestions that people leave behind are usually constructive and polite. Whatever it is you can currently bring to your gang, will be important, even if it's just a frigate/cruiser that flies around the enemy, if you can use target painter, webber or warp jammer it WILL make a difference. If you can use ECM all the better as it means someone else could add more damage/tank to their own ship. Don't be afraid to lose ships. Also use a combination of Eve Mon and the battleclinic load outs to see what skills would be better to train sooner than later. Just remember it's not just about being able to fit ecm bursts or smart bombs if during the heat of battle you forget to turn them on (I've only did this once and got my jamming kestrel blown out of the sky by a few t2 drones, so embarrassing). Anyway after the engagements, win or lose talk to your gang mates ask them questions about what they were doing and why they did it. Speak to the FC AFTER the engagement to understand why he called that ship primary before any other, and look at the market and read descriptions about other racial ships you come across to understand what their bonus's are and where their weaknesses lie. PvP'ing in Battlecruisers and indeed command ships require medium size modules and weapons. A much faster training time than you need for a T2 fitted Battleship, and with the exception of the Command Ship class, it'll be cheaper to fit, maintain and replace. Saying that though, I doubt you need to get into anything higher than a cruiser for the time being. What I like to call tiertary ship skills, which consists of the skills that improve power grid, aligity, cpu, shield/armour bonus's are all very very important to squeeze every 0.01% ability out of whatever ship you're flying too. Then comes the bonus's for the weapon platforms you're going for on top of it. Finally add on top of that implants for extra damage, lower cpu, faster rate of fire and well, it's expensive but could make all the difference. Keep turning up in your gang with ships you can afford to fit and lose keep asking questions and eventually the penny will drop in place and you'll get to like blowing other people up. Life is about memories the more the better. http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp)
Foulque	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Commander Yassir I was sitting in a sniping ferox and I jumped through the gate and he jumped through as well... as luck would have it he jumped through and ended up right next to me but in between me and the gate so I could not warp nor could I get back to the gate nor because it was a sniping setup could I tank it so I simply pinned me there, (for some reason my ship wouldn't even turn towards the gate) and blew me up If you were running from a single guy, or even a couple you could have held on the gate for a bit before you jumped and waited for him to engage. Once he engages jump through and he has to wait 30 sec before he can follow. You just have to fly with people who know what they're doing and leech every little bit of knowledge you can off them. Eve isn't easy, there's lots of little tricks and tactics to learn, most of them are survival. Also BCs are great ships if you can afford to lose them, don't move to a battleship unless you can actually fly it very well or else you'll get creamed. Just comes down to flying what you can afford to lose and what you can fly well.
Takon Orlani Caldari Chaos Monkeys Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:38:00 - [32] Edited by: Takon Orlani on 03/09/2008 15:39:19 Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 03/09/2008 14:32:02 Meh, just join us carebears, PvP is overrated (and dead by some whiners on these forums) anyway. :) --- Serious now.. You could try to get a PvP course from agony unleased They fill up very quickly, I wanted to get in and pad my killmails with some frig fleet kills, but no luck :( http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewforum.php?2
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:39:00 - [33] Originally by: Commander Yassir Edited by: Commander Yassir on 03/09/2008 14:45:35 Alright I will remember that gate escape trick thanks. As for pvp classes from Agony, well they don't like me or my alliance much...well at all really. I've taken two of the Agony classes; during a class both students and pilots are expected to suspend any hostilities they might have for anyone else in the class. If you're not an ass to them, they'll give you the same respect. In fact just signing up for the class probably shows in their eyes that whatever dumb noob things you might have been doing, you're willing to learn better. Now on the other hand, if you think they don't like you much because they keep shooting you, well, they do that to everybody else too.
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:40:00 - [34] well the problem is they want the space we are currently residing in and we don't want to move.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:41:00 - [35] Firstly, cudos for trying to do what your doing, if you stick with it, and keep that mentality; one day you will be a pvp terror. That said; you are using sniping ships and primarily a sniping ferox. Unfortunately, those ships have an extremely niche role. Railguns border on broken when it comes to anything but fleet combat and pos shooting. Thats not to say they are useless; its just that in the MAJORITY of situations, anything 1 vs 1 will beat a railgun sniper. Now as for your perception that people with better ships and more skills tend to beat you, well there is some truth to that; their skills and ships give them an advantage and often that can suplant whatever advantage you have. The trick to PVP in EVE is to have an advantage that the other guy can't counter. In 99.99999% of situations; that advantage will not apply to all engagements. What I mean by that is a drake with ECM drones has a huge advantage over a BS due to the fact that it can keep a BS jammed and is still able to do enough damage to pop a BS yet its tank is sufficient incase a jam cycle fails. However; put that same drake up against a vagbond and its advantage no longer applies. In order to be victorious; the number 1 most important thing is to know what you can do and pick your engagements based on that. I personally find that I get the most kills using unconventional setups on ships that people assume are setup a certain way (Drake is a good example, scorpion is another). Basically its your ship selection thats hurting your chances, I highly suggest you learn the pros and cons of each weapon system and to a lesser extent which ships use which one. That will help a lot in terms of selecting a ship for yourself as well as choosing when to attack. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
XFranc Caldari Traders Industrialists and Miners of EVE	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:43:00 - [36] They dont normally mind that, politics is politics, business is business. Ask them - dont assume :)
Commander Yassir Therapy. YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:49:00 - [37] I don't think my alliance would like it either
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises Chances of Misfortune	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:04:00 - [38] Edited by: Druadan on 03/09/2008 16:08:46 I learned to pirate solo almost two year ago, against the rules of my corp at the time, by getting a thorax and heading out to my local lowsec to get into fights. I used safespots and got to grips with the scanner to locate targets ratting, analyze their movements, and meet them at the warp-in for the belt I decided they'd be in next. It didn't take long for me to start racking up the kills, and it served as a tremendous learning tool for the combat my corp would get into later in life, mainly at my behest as when my CEO noticed my sec status was just on the negative side of zero, he removed the no-piracy rule and I became our first fleet commander. Piracy back then was a pretty awesome profession, so it helped that getting into it was fun as well as challenging. Over the past twelve months, however, it has become something of a dying art due to the proliferation of fleets in lowsec, due to FW and outlaws fleeting to kill FW fleets, and the nano problem. If you've got your wits about you, learning to fight is simple, and it comes down to the perfection of the art of staying alive long enough to find a fight you can win, which means perfecting the art of staying alive, and the art of picking your fights. I suspect what's going to hurt you the most is the prevalence of nano ships and large fleets, neither of which I had to contend with back then as the game wasn't nearly as overcrowded as it is now. This means you've got your work cut out for you on the staying alive side. Nevertheless, practice makes perfect. My advice is to practice on a budget and start with a cruiser: thorax, vexor, stabber, rupture. Every time you fail, think about why you failed, and what you could do to prevent it next time. Make good use of EFT (I'd link it for you but I'm using Google Chrome and can't find the favourites =/), but remember that the proof of the pudding is in the shooting so no EFT fit is worth anything until you see it successful on the field of battle. Also, friends make PVP much better :) -Dru P.S. On shiptypes, go with close-range stuff unless your game is fighting outside of the enemy's range and being able to stay there. Sniping is fine but if you don't kill your target before he gets too close for you to hit, you've lost the fight already. High-damage high-HP is a good way to go, so plated thorax, plated rupture, etc., or high-speed works too - a stabber can be nano'd decently enough for training in without needing to touch rigs. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:42:00 - [39] Edited by: Valan on 03/09/2008 16:44:59 This may sound strange but certain ships certain players. I'm rubbish in frigates the only useful thin I can do in a frigate is self destruct to distract the enemy. I'm a half decent fleet Battleship pilot but thats the sheer amount of DPS I lay down. I'm ususally on the kill mail. I hate POS war though, with a passion. 0.0 is just a no go for me I don't have the patience for it. I steer clear of BCs, damage output is too low for me and they're slow including the command ships. Cruiser size ships suit me down to the ground. A good mix of speed, tanking and damage dealing. Guess its because it suits my favourite type of PVP which is skirmish. You can tell I'm more comfortable with it as I'll attack greater numbers in one. EDIT: By the way the guy above is correct with ship load out. Conversley go all damage and just go for it you'll be surprised how well the 'shit he's coming straight for us' thing works out. Plating up does give you thinking time in the early stages though. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Syringe Morphine Inc	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:59:00 - [40] Aye - best way to start is to grab a frig (incursus and rifter are my personal faves) and start can-flipping. Sounds a little lame, but most people will come back in another ship and put up a decent fight. Sometimes they'll tear you to pieces, but sometimes you'll get battlecruiser kills with your little frigate while his 3 other friends concord themselves trying to kill you (hey, it happens). When you're a little more comfortable with that, get a t1 cruiser and go harass people in low-sec. --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:10:00 - [41] TBH most of the Caldari ships are nothing more than support for gang PvP. Try picking a different race to PvP with. I am not saying it is impossible, but just go take a look at the Video section of the forums and tell me how many of the videos the pilot is flying primarily Caldari. It is not many. If you what to stay with your Caldari, train up your e-war and become a "god" at it and run around with a small gang. I have flown with some Caldari pilots that keep stuff jammed from here to Jita and back perm and it is great. You can't shoot what you can't lock. As some have said, it really has nothing to do with SP or ship size, you have to pick your battles properly and teach yourself how to PvP (no one can teach you that...they can give your setups and advice, but in the end it is you). Good luck m8. Keep trying and it will come to you I promise. -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? Short answer: Stop trying to PvP in battlecruisers. Start out with frigates. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:15:00 - [43] Originally by: baltec1 I now generaly only fly retributions in pvp as its my favorate ship. Most would laugh at my choice but I find it fun to fly and not all that shabby and realy thats what counts. One midslot yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah! hi5 __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Kilostream Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:34:00 - [44] Edited by: Kilostream on 03/09/2008 17:37:47 Originally by: Commander Yassir I am trying to be a pvper, but it seems to me that I am just awful at it for some reason. The other people that I roam around with all seem to know exactly what is going on and what to do at all times. I can't do this. The last two times I have tried to pvp in a battlecruiser I have been popped by better ships. (I have only ever tried to pvp in battlecruisers twice). Should I just stay in safe areas ratting and training skills until I can get into either a nano so no one can touch me or a battleship? because battlecruisers and everything without either crazy fast speed or something like a battleship will get killed, or am I just not cut out for pvp and should i go be a carebear? I remember feeling how you do once! First things first - as a wise man once said, you don't get good at PVP by not doing it! There's so much to pvp that it's not possible to condense it all into one post, but I'll try and give you the basic building blocks to look for in your gang / fleet ops. Firstly you really need voice comms such as TS or Ventrilo or something - typing to each other is not going to cut it for you. Second your basic gang needs to comprise three fundamental blocks (there are other areas, but for now look out for these) 1) Scout(s) - Knowing what is going on around you is key - it's no good engaging someone without knowing what (if any) backup the target has. Covert ops, Interceptors and Covert recons all qualify as decent scouting ships. 2) Tackle - The scout can often provide this service too, or you can have a few dedicated tackling ships - these will be fast ships able to intercept and warp scramble the target (and web too if need be). Whatever damage these ships can provide is a bonus, but plays second fiddle to locking down the target 3) Damage - Exactly what it says - these are the bruisers you warp in at optimal ranges to do the bizz. Third, When you are going out on your ops, you should have an appointed target-caller (this is often but not always the FC) along with a backup target caller - this guy needs to know his onions because if the scout reports a potential engagement with multiple targets he needs to quickly decide a) whether to engage at all and, b) what targets need to be disposed of first (these will usually be the ones that can either incapacitate you or prevent you from warping out). That's what to look for in your fleet - now for a couple of things you can do to help yourself: 1) Only fly what you can afford to lose - this rule should in fact be applied every time you undock, regardless of what you are planning to do - but certainly for pvp you should accept that whilst you are learning you WILL **** up, and you WILL die (possibly a LOT!) 2) Know where you are - I remember my first few pvp engagements, everything was a blur, my heart was pounding, I was pressing all the wrong buttons, panicking! you name it! - However trying to pin down two key things here will help: a) Pick a point for your warp out and align to it (Sun, planet, whatever) so you can warp quickly from the point you decide you need to. b) Have shiptypes on your overview so you know which stuff is able to scramble you and how far away from you it is. 3) Don't get disheartened when you die - instead have a debrief, either with your fleet, or with yourself - try to identify what specific mistake caused you to lose your ship on that occasion (could have been anyone's - the scouts, the FC's, yours) and figure out what steps you can take to avoid that mistake next time - remember losing a ship is not really a loss if you learn from it. Finally - the very fact that you came to this forum and phrased your question in this way rather than whining like a big girl / quitting the game / crying for a nerf tells me you have potential because you have a good attitude. Keep at it - once you got your first killmail, the losses leading up to it will all be worth it!
Norma Stitz	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Commander Yassir I trained gallente for a little while and I have fairly good skills in armor tank so maybe back to gallente? I like gallente because they tend to be 2nd best at everything. Never 3rd or 4th. Very flexible
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:53:00 - [46] The hardest part I found about making the transition from 'mission runner' to 'PvPer' was the mindset shift. When missioning, it's typically better to get in the biggest thing you can fly, even if the fit is terrible. When PvPing, find the biggest thing you can fly, then go a step or two down, both because those are the things you fly _well_ and because you can typically afford to lose a few. But bottom line, there's two kinds of PvPer in EVE. Those that have lost a lot of ships, and those that are _going_ to lose a lot of ships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Kilostream Good advice I'd just add a 4th component to your required gang, and it's especially important to mention because it's very accessible for new players: Originally by: Kilostream 1) Scout(s) - Knowing what is going on around you is key - it's no good engaging someone without knowing what (if any) backup the target has. Covert ops, Interceptors and Covert recons all qualify as decent scouting ships. 2) Tackle - The scout can often provide this service too, or you can have a few dedicated tackling ships - these will be fast ships able to intercept and warp scramble the target (and web too if need be). Whatever damage these ships can provide is a bonus, but plays second fiddle to locking down the target 3) Damage - Exactly what it says - these are the bruisers you warp in at optimal ranges to do the bizz. 4) Electronic Warfare. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
nicetry	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:24:00 - [48] Since your flying Caldari, maybe I can suggest 2 ships which dont require that much sp. Try training up to a Crow for tackling and train for the Blackbird ECM cruiser. While require some training to be effective it just taakes a few weeks to fly them. Bth these ships have duties in gangs that you can do, just make sure that you come in ships that your gang asks if you can.
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Commander Yassir I don't think my alliance would like it either If you're really that paranoid, you can roll an alt that will meet the skill pre-reqs for the Basic class with less than a week's training. (Military career, no mater what race).
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:35:00 - [50] This thread is proof that if you ask a legitamate question on these forums, without whining, you will get answers worthy of being written in stone and distributed to all players... this is what the forums are for. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.09.04 08:26:00 - [51] Originally by: Commander Yassir Edited by: Commander Yassir on 03/09/2008 14:45:35 Alright I will remember that gate escape trick thanks. As for pvp classes from Agony, well they don't like me or my alliance much...well at all really. But if you have battleship 5 then you should also prolly have the ability to fit all t2 modules so why not just fly a t2 fitted command ship? Oh wait....I don't have frig 5 wither, can I not fly frigs... or maybe I should just train up for a cloaking device and then fit that to all the ships I fly... Who ever said we don't like you? :) Even if we didn't, we don't keep reds from taking our classes, nothing wrong with having well-informed targets.
Kilostream Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Malcanis I'd just add a 4th component to your required gang, and it's especially important to mention because it's very accessible for new players: 4) Electronic Warfare. Indeed - I did mention that there were other components to a fleet, and E:war was one of the things in mind. I had considered mentioning it but a) I was running out of space and b) intended only to include the very basic fundamentals to start work on. That said, you raise a valid point that (certainly with the advent of Electronic attack frigates) e:war is now more accessible to new players than ever before, and can certainly have an effect on the progress of a battle, so perhaps it deserved mention.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Protip: try to tackle in frigates. Less loss on your end (in ships and/or isk if the ship pops, as frigates are quite replacable and/or maneuverable) for your gang. web scrambling is a vital part of PvP, and if you learn that, you have a stable base to work off on to branch out. QFT!!! I love flying frigates. I like to move fast and be "up close". While using the firgates listen to comands and do what is instructed. Learn the finer points of tackling As KS stated and all you need is T1 frig and once you have the skill iNterceptors are real fun to fly. From this you will learn the eb and flow of the various types of engagements. Soon you will be having a blast. Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. DesuSigs
Ash Vincetti Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Commander Yassir As for pvp classes from Agony, well they don't like me or my alliance much...well at all really. This is a common misconception. Agony doesn't have any allies, so in day to day operation, they will shoot anyone and everyone, no exceptions. Anyone can take their classes, and they will offer a temporary cease-fire for the students only. I recall a couple of times where they even trained enemies that were actively engaged in conflicts with. If your corpmates decide to come and play, the class will still fire on them, and you have the personal choice of helping take your corpmates down, or staying out of the fight. I would recommend that you let your corpmates know where the class is that day so they can stay away from that are. It's not personal, they just have a NASI policy for what to engage. (Not Agony? SHOOT IT!!! PEW PEW PEW!) ----- free bree!
Dashhammer II Amarr O RLY corp YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:29:00 - [55] Yassir- From this thread, an enemy of YTMND can gleem a great deal of information that you have wrecklessly provided. The reason you lost your ferox (as you have neglected to mention) was that you were not where you should have been. You were in a fleet, the FC gave you an order and you either did not hear it or did not heed it. If that typhoon had not popped you then I am sure one of the many many many other enemy ships that were fleeing the fight would have. Perhaps if you would like to become better at pvping- You should do less talking and more listening. This thread is hereby concluded. See me after class. - Dashhammer II
Glassback Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.05 11:31:00 - [56] Try this approach. Pick a type of target ie Haulers, Ratters etc. Work out a ship/setup which will kill them and a strategy to find them. Shoot Win LinkedIn
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.05 11:42:00 - [57] Small tip that I haven't seen mentioned before: Once you have a good ship setup, get a few extra ships with the same fittings as backup. If you go around roaming, and you lose your ship, simply return to your station and hop into a new ship and continue on. Don't waste all of them on the same target though, unless you know it is worth it and the target isn't repping Diary of a pod pilot
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.05 12:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Dashhammer II Yassir- From this thread, an enemy of YTMND can gleem a great deal of information that you have wrecklessly provided. The reason you lost your ferox (as you have neglected to mention) was that you were not where you should have been. You were in a fleet, the FC gave you an order and you either did not hear it or did not heed it. If that typhoon had not popped you then I am sure one of the many many many other enemy ships that were fleeing the fight would have. Perhaps if you would like to become better at pvping- You should do less talking and more listening. This thread is hereby concluded. See me after class. </thread> CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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