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Celestial Divinity B'haxed Productions	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:24:00 - [1] I think eve is a great game, that said it is not noob friendly. don't get me wrong, they a lot of corps to help new people, vets to give advice etc.. The problems is isk and skills. No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, I will never be able to compete with people that have 50+ mil SP. This last month I am reminded over and over again of how weak and feeble I am compared to so many others. I play mmorpg's to have fun, being frustrated nonstop because almost everyone is stronger than me is not my idea of fun. Any other game all I would have to do is grind a bit more and eventually catch up. In eve I feel for every 1 step I take forward the people ahead of me are taking 3 steps forward. The days where people got rich with T2 lotteries, and that kind of stuff is long gone. I am so tired of what feels like work so I can fool myself actually thinking I can catch up with people that have billions of isk ot crazy amounts of skill points. My final straw was 30 minutes ago when I can baited a hauler. The guy was in a badger II, I got my incursus frigate with 3 top named light neutrons and a scrambling setup. I couldn't break his shields.. He wasn't even boosting, it was a passive tank on a hauler I couldn't break... Its not like I want to play WoW, where I can get instant gratification and max level in1 month, But I want a game that with hard work will get me at least someone close to the rest of the population.
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:27:00 - [2] Stuff can i haz it?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:27:00 - [3] Train a week or two, go back in a cruiser, show that badger who's it's daddy It's really hard at start, but keep at it, it'll get better step by step. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Diversity 101	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:31:00 - [4] You tried something and it didn't work. Don't be down hearted because this one time it didn't work. Try a different badger and you might luck out next time. Also you don't need to worry about having more or less SP than other pilots you just keep in mind what you want to train for and max the skills that allow you to do just that. To be great using frigates, only require about 5-6M Skill points. Cruisers, probably an extra 3M on top of that. People with more skill points flying exactly the same ship as you, may be able to use T2 modules and guns, but that doesn't mean they'll destroy you instantly, if you know how to pilot the ship. Really in this game, experience counts more than skill points in most flexible situations like pvp. Good luck and if you do decide to quit eve I don't really want your stuff. Life is about memories the more the better. http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp)
XFranc Caldari Traders Industrialists and Miners of EVE	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:31:00 - [5] Badger IIs have a lot of midslots, so why not shove them full of med shield extenders. Try joining a friendly corp - 4 people with 10 mil skillpoints would own 1 player with 60 mil. As well as offering real game satisfaction, playing EVE alone, is definately not noob friendly.
Takon Orlani Caldari Chaos Monkeys Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:35:00 - [6] What part of space to you live in? The only requirement for my corp is the willingness to learn and the ability to listen to instruction. There are many such corps around. I might have been interested in helping you, but you seem to have a quitters attitude. Maybe if you change your attitude you might have more fun.
Death Cry Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:36:00 - [7] o/ u do realize a badger 2 has 6 count em 6 mid slots..were u being disrupted?? thats a lot of slots for a shield tank also..and well i would have sent an alt to kill you while u were messing with my industrial alt...personally good luck in the game and know your enemys potential.... He who seems least dangerous is most dangerous....
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Celestial Divinity No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, I will never be able to compete with people that have 50+ mil SP. You can't put 50 millions sp in a single ship, not even a capital, that means at any time your 50 millions sp vet won't be using nearly all his sp. Veterans have the advantage of being able to do lots of stuff, but you can be as good as them in some areas quite quickly if you specialize properly. And you could always be a successful trader (need seldom any sp) and buy a high skilled char (I personally dislike the idea, maybe you don't). -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
SuckySycky5dolla	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:38:00 - [9] Edited by: SuckySycky5dolla on 03/09/2008 15:39:09 This game is about understanding complexities of eve and trying to exploit it to your benefit. In your case, you just too young to break a tank on a hauler. That said, I was able to easily tank a rupture cruiser pirate until the sentries made him run, i was in a t2 transport. So it summary, train for 1 more month by which time flying a cruiser should be tons of fun. Making isk to replace cruisers will be rough but in good corp those are usually free.
Ashlee Darksky Minmatar Forum Insurgency	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:39:00 - [10] For an evil twist, you could try can baiting in a badger - it's been done Seriously though, as everyone said here don't give up. Re-think, re-fit and re-try. I felt the very same way when I started and it's very frustrating. Now the most frustrating thing is to wait for skills that take 30+ days to train :( Keep at it, you'll get there! --- > I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing > Bring me the heads of 10 carebears, 5 bottles of BBQ sauce, firewood and a box of matches!
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:40:00 - [11] Edited by: baltec1 on 03/09/2008 15:44:34 Nothing is impossible, if I can climb Snowdonia with a stitch and blisters on my feet then you can adapt to this game. If you want even more insperation I once destroyed 23 light drones from a carrier while tanking them and moved onto the carrier itself (was in a fleet at the time). I did have to warp out a few times but it didnt kill me. The best thing I did was this. I not only did I jam him but also went in and tackled him with a badger. So just because they have more SP and a bigger ship doesnt mean you will die.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:40:00 - [12] Don't give up, keep trying! I would also suggest using a Tristan (the "Fat man") for can baiting. It has more mids, more highs, can carry one more drone, and is tougher than the Incursus. Also, since it can mount rockets and missles, you can pack some EM missles or rockets to chew through his shields. Alternately, train up a bit more and grab an Assault Frigate. The Ishkur is based on the Incursus, but with more slots all around, more armor, and can carry a buttload of small drones. 5 little Hammerheads, even the T1 ones will eat a badger alive. Trust me, you don't need a cruiser or larger to PVP, some of the most fun I've had PVPing is in cheap disposable frigates vs other cheap disposable frigates. Just remember to fully insure your frigs before you head out. That way you don't blow all your cash at once. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:41:00 - [13] First off if you want some serious PvP, join a PvP corps (obviously) and take as much advice as you can from the veterans. Second analyse what went wrong, for example was your DPS to low, why would that be (was it skills/setup/etc, or a combination offc), get info on your targets. For example in the beginning I was surprised my Navy comet could take alot more damage and do more DPS then my Minmatar Trasher. A quick analyse made clear it was alot of things. As a Gallente I had gunnery for frigates maxed (for Minmatar obviosly not), a destroyer is slower (more damage from missiles), I was doing absolute noob things in my destroyer and so on. And last as a newby, fly with the big boys in a fleet, learn as much as you can about how and when they engage another player etc etc. You will no learn EVE overnight.
ThoRHammer6213 Gallente MINER's GUILD INC	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Celestial Divinity I think eve is a great game, that said it is not noob friendly. don't get me wrong, they a lot of corps to help new people, vets to give advice etc.. The problems is isk and skills. No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, I will never be able to compete with people that have 50+ mil SP. This last month I am reminded over and over again of how weak and feeble I am compared to so many others. I play mmorpg's to have fun, being frustrated nonstop because almost everyone is stronger than me is not my idea of fun. Any other game all I would have to do is grind a bit more and eventually catch up. In eve I feel for every 1 step I take forward the people ahead of me are taking 3 steps forward. The days where people got rich with T2 lotteries, and that kind of stuff is long gone. I am so tired of what feels like work so I can fool myself actually thinking I can catch up with people that have billions of isk ot crazy amounts of skill points. My final straw was 30 minutes ago when I can baited a hauler. The guy was in a badger II, I got my incursus frigate with 3 top named light neutrons and a scrambling setup. I couldn't break his shields.. He wasn't even boosting, it was a passive tank on a hauler I couldn't break... Its not like I want to play WoW, where I can get instant gratification and max level in1 month, But I want a game that with hard work will get me at least someone close to the rest of the population. Thats what you get for can-baiting. It seems too me that you got exactly what you deserved so go ahead and leave EVE. This just means that in the EVE universe there will be one less can-baiting, pirate, scum-bag that I'll have to deal with. "I shall Dispense No MercY"
Presidio Hug Nutz	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:42:00 - [15] You gave it a try. Personally though I think flying small ships is way more fun then flying big ships (capitals+). Flying caps and supercaps comes with a great deal of responsibility and you can't just do whatever you want, you need ton of support to do anything. As far as 0.0 combat goes. Interdictor pilots or other tacklers are always in high demand. You will die a lot but your role will be one of the most important roles in the fleet. Think about it for every Titan or a Mother Ship killed in the game there must have been a interdictor pilot or two responsible for tackling. Interdictors are a lot of fun. Also you won't spend much isk replacing your ships compared to cap pilots. I say give it another shot. Join a 0.0 alliance and do some fleet battles, you will have fun. Many of those who have 50mill +sp are cross trained in bunch of other things. I have ton of skill points in minmatar ships I never fly, just because I have a high number of SPs doesn't mean I can fly a certain ship better then you. -
Roc Wieler Freeform Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:43:00 - [16] Ok, I am going to try to be nice. Have you ever played another MMO? Let's even say WoW. You start at lvl1. Did you immediately try to play with lvl70 characters? Or kill lvl70 NPCs? If you did, you learned how inferior you were quickly. So instead, you played at your appropriate level. Eve is different than that, and actually more effective. You can go anywhere you choose in EVE at any level. Surviving is a whole other matter. But because you can go anywhere, you can take on harder risks, thus increasing your "real life piloting skills" more quickly. You come to understand the game faster than grinding out crap. So stick with it. If you're having trouble, stick to noob stuff until you're not a noob. We've all been there. As for your argument about being inferior to vet pilots. Rubbish. I've killed many pilots with far greater SP than me, and been killed by pilots with far fewer SP than me. I hope you continue. EVE is an incredible experience. "Never start a fight you can win." - Roc Wieler
Quincunx Minmatar Subspace Anomaly	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Celestial Divinity No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, I will never be able to compete with people that have 50+ mil SP. You can't put 50 millions sp in a single ship, not even a capital, that means at any time your 50 millions sp vet won't be using nearly all his sp. Veterans have the advantage of being able to do lots of stuff, but you can be as good as them in some areas quite quickly if you specialize properly. This.
Judge Ment Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:52:00 - [18] I almost cried Get a hold of yourself young man
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:52:00 - [19] Ahh a Can baiter that failed. You probably did it wrong. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Verizana Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:55:00 - [20] Originally by: XFranc Try joining a friendly corp - 4 people with 10 mil skillpoints would own 1 player with 60 mil. This is false, but anyway, what you need is patience. If you keep trying and join a friendly corp blablabla its all been said. But eventually you'll find that pilots younger then you have joined the game, thats when you get your revenge and start killing...eh...giving them lessons, and they will feel like you once did, and you will start to really enjoy the game like I do.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:09:00 - [21] I have about 70mil Skill Points I "FOLLOW" the leadership of folks with maybe a bit more than half of that. In fact, assuming you have a highly experienced veteran's understanding of the game (which has absolutely NOTHING to do with your skill points), and assuming you've shown folks you have a knack for clever solutions and REAL LIFE leadership skills, you would find that 80mil skill point veterans would be HAPPY to FOLLOW such a person even at 10mil SPs. Heck, if there was some way to identify a talented leader when he first starts playing, you'd have the most veteran alliances in game, BoB included, seeking the great leaders out on their 1st day in Eve. Reliable and talented managers are almost as popular (trust me on this one....). If you are a talented and reliable manager, AND a talented leader, you are pretty much guarenteed a senior position in a major allaince within 2 years. Even at 1/4 the SPs of the senior veterans, the major alliances DREAM of getting more such people. Again, the "2 years" is more a matter of building your reputation than skill points. If such leaders could be identified and vetted for security faster, they'd be BEGGED to join the major allainces faster. However, someone who just 'thinks' they are a great leaders will not necessarily actually BE a great leader. Then we get to simple old "reliable". Reliable troops are also VERY popular, and often fill mid level leadership positions (and many folks ACTIVELY do NOT want higher leadership). "Reliable" folks are the backbone of every major alliance in game. You'll need a few more skill points to impress the veterans, but nothing outragous. 10 to 20mil is fine "IF" you have any sort of decent rep as a reliable player. If you can be reliable, and keep your inner emo to a minimum, you can succeed greatly in this game. Having said that, merely "THINKING" you are 'reliable' is not the same as 'BEING' reliable. Use some self honesty here, or you might have a painful game experience. Having said all that, if you live and breath 1 vs 1 'fair fight' duels, then yes, the SP issue is a game breaker and you better quit. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Celestial Divinity Its not like I want to play WoW, where I can get instant gratification and max level in1 month, But I want a game that with hard work will get me at least someone close to the rest of the population. Back on August 12th, the OP's VERY FIRST POST, promised us he was leaving, yet he's still here, whining up a storm. His FIRST POST to the forums is a whine post! His second post is yet ANOTHER WHINE, this time about macro haulers. And his next post is an even BIGGER WHINE, where he actually threatens legal action against people who pod kill him, and complains about bounties put on his head! Does anyone else sense a trend here? -Grid
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Verizana Originally by: XFranc Try joining a friendly corp - 4 people with 10 mil skillpoints would own 1 player with 60 mil. This is false Only false if the 60-mil SP pilot is in a cap ship, if he flies a faction-tank-pimped battleship, or if he's nanoed to hell and back (soon no longer such an enticing option). In pretty much any other case, 10 mil SP is more than enough to have an impressive damage output and adequate buffer tank, and the four 10 mil SP pilots SHOULD be able to kill it (assuming they're not complete morons and work together, while not having their SPs all over the place). _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises Chances of Misfortune	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:16:00 - [24] Edited by: Druadan on 03/09/2008 16:16:25 Your problem is not that you'll never be able to match a 50mil SP player, it's that you're not yet thinking about EVE in the right way. You didn't fail to kill that Badger because he was an older player; you failed to kill that Badger because a Badger can get a decent passive setup on it. You didn't bring big enough guns. You should learn pretty quickly that while frigate can put out a surprising amount of DPS, yours cannot... yet. What makes you able to catch up to a 50mil SP player is specialization. That 50mil SP player is not always going to be a better HAC pilot than you. You can overtake him by specialising. A 50mil SP player can do more, but he is not necessarily better than a 15mil SP dedicated droneboat pilot. This fact is evident when you look at things like skill levels and attribute points... The amount of SP/hour you train is equal to (level in current skill's primary attribute)+(level in current skill's secondary attribute)/2, which means each additional attribute point you get is worth a little less than the one attained before it. When you look at skill levels, you can see that the fifth level of each skill takes a hell of a lot longer than the fourth level, despite providing the same bonus (and thus a slightly smaller relative bonus). It is this which allows you to catch up. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Gridwalker Originally by: Celestial Divinity Its not like I want to play WoW, where I can get instant gratification and max level in1 month, But I want a game that with hard work will get me at least someone close to the rest of the population. Back on August 12th, the OP's VERY FIRST POST, promised us he was leaving, yet he's still here, whining up a storm. His FIRST POST to the forums is a whine post! His second post is yet ANOTHER WHINE, this time about macro haulers. And his next post is an even BIGGER WHINE, where he actually threatens legal action against people who pod kill him, and complains about bounties put on his head! Does anyone else sense a trend here? -Grid I am reasonable sure at least one of those was a scam attempt. A clumsy scam attempt, but he is new. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Arkeladin	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:24:00 - [26] To the OP: Bub-bye. CYA. And this time, MEAN IT. Seems all the OP ever does is come on the Forums and show us all what a emo crybaby he is. WAAAAH, I got podded. WAAAAH< there are bounties on me! I'll sue! WAAAAAH, I can't kill a tanked Badger! WAAAAAAAH, everyone's got more skillpoints than I do. OP, GROW UP. HET A SPINE. EvE is NOT a game for the ADD-riddled short attention span instant-gratification types. You want that, GO ELSEWHERE. EvE is a game all about long-term goals, as if the realtime-based skilltraining wasn't a dead giveaway. EFFORT INVESTED = REWARD GAINED< just like in Real Life, which the OP probrably fails at too. Either way, OP, just SFTU. Nobody whats to hear your emopanda whines any more. HET A GRIP OR GET OUT.
Celestial Divinity B'haxed Productions	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:27:00 - [27] I sometimes get real upset and say stuff I don't mean. The first I Quit post was legitimate but of course I meant it for about 1 hour. The BOUNTY post paid for my First Battlecruiser I made a nice 48 Million isk with that, I do Not like the word scam though, I like to think of it as a cool idea. I think I need to reevaluate what my goals are in eve. Maybe I should focus on bettering my character SP and ISK wise before even bothering to pvp. I need to also find people to gang up with which has been tough. I now know solo it just can't cut it. I am as usual not going to quit , but just need some time to cool down.
Hel O'Ween Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Celestial Divinity The problems is isk and skills. No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, I will never be able to compete with people that have 50+ mil SP. This is a common misconception in EVE. It might be true for the ISK part (or not, depending on how much that 50+ mil char is after the money). But it is definitely not true for skills. You see, even a 50+ million SP player can't have his frigate skill (or any other skill, for that matter) higher than level V. Once he and you got there, you two are on par with each other. next you train your small hybrid/missile/projectile to level 5. And so on. If you focus on a single ship (class), you'll reach the vet in a relative short amount of time. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:57:00 - [29] -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
DrAtomic League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Celestial Divinity The BOUNTY post paid for my First Battlecruiser Hehehe, it was bloody creative for sure, it's ashame peepz saw through it that quick could have ended in something very spectacular. Originally by: Celestial Divinity I think I need to reevaluate what my goals are in eve. I've been there, coming off DAOC I was used to grinding till I was super tinked out then off to pvp. In EvE that's something that will never happen, even the guy with the most SP only has a third of all possible SP. It's fairly easy to come on equal terms SP wise with a 80 mil SP character with about 15-20 mil SP yourself if you focus your SP towards one goal (ie max out being a Gallente HAC pilot). You'll be surprised how many people you will actually pass by sticking to that focus, SP wise in that focus field that is. The real drawback of the SP system is that you can't compete and enjoy all content of the game without having heaps and heaps of SP, this leaves you the option to focus on one thing and only when that has been reached turn towards the next focus, opening new content with each focuspoint. This works great for being a strong competitor early on but as said it takes ages to be able to enjoy other parts of the game, something lot's of people solve by opening or buying a second account or even more. Common multi account focus: -. one pure pvp pilot for certain race -. another pure pvp pilot for different race -. Hauler/industry alt -. Mining alt -. Exploration/scanning alt -. Logistics alt -. capital alt -. cyno alt -. missioning alt Originally by: Celestial Divinity Maybe I should focus on bettering my character SP and ISK wise before even bothering to pvp. It doesn''t have to be, just make sure you focus on one thing and stick to it, bigger is not better SP wise. The biggerships require way more SP to specialice in then the smallerships. Go Interceptor or Interdictor and join a 0.0 alliance you'll be loved for it, only be able to fly a big ship in such a way that you can mission with it or rat with it, forget pvping with them untill you reach it as focus point. Originally by: Celestial Divinity I need to also find people to gang up with which has been tough. Corp hop till you find a place that has great teamwork (requires you to be a teamplayer as well offcourse), bigger is most often not better (a corp that manages to have about 12 bodies online at your primetime and does a lot of teamwork is way better then a 500 man corp where everyone just goes about it's own biz). Originally by: Celestial Divinity I now know solo it just can't cut it. Then don't, see previous. Originally by: Celestial Divinity I am as usual not going to quit , but just need some time to cool down. Fool around with EFT, decide what you want to fly, set yourself a focus, stick with it. Plan it out with Evemon to see if it's an acceptable focus if not find a smaller focus first and above all find a corp that gives you enjoyment out of the game through teamwork. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...

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