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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.07 00:50:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Empyre
Edited by: Empyre on 07/09/2008 00:03:45
Originally by: Gamesguy
Hahaha, good one.
Because pirates in real life were all about "honor" and "fairness" and went around fighting warships, they didn't run from warships and go after defenseless merchants right?
Look up the definition of a pirate before you spout this crap.
Actually some were. It was quite a common thing, however, for crews to trade their loyalty to whoever the ruling captain was. Some pirates even took up command of fleets for "non-pirate" folk who were willing to get their ship from point A to point B at whatever cost. I hardly think honor and fairness followed any doctrine you've established in your head, times were different. So if you want to start defining what a pirate is or was, let's pick a time period and area and we'll discuss it. But I'm not going to get into childish neener games over the definition of a really broad term.
Honor and Fairness are fundamentals of cohesive existence with other people if you expect to get anywhere at any rate. They aren't defined by whatever suits your definition for the moment.
I'll tell you one thing that's for sure, pirates of any age aren't (for the most part anyway) on speed dial of the people they've robbed.
(You're a sucker for punishment, aren't you?)
edit: took out too too many words.
Originally by: Malcanis
That's fine, and actually I couldn't agree more. I just think social penalties should be enacted by players.
Eve already has this to an extent much moreso than I observe in any other game that is still in the market strong. It's one of the things that drew me in.
Please find the the pirates that were about "honor" and "fairness". Convoy raiders in the two world wars were not pirates, they were military units of their respective nations.
Pirates are just a glorified word for thieves and murders and rapists, at any period in history. You watch too many movies if you think pirates were anything like the ones in say, pirates of the carribean.
The the whole freaking point, pirates are not supposed to get along with other people, do you get along with mass murders? How about serial killers or rapists? I don't think you understand the concept of pirates.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.07 01:13:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Please find the the pirates that were about "honor" and "fairness". Convoy raiders in the two world wars were not pirates, they were military units of their respective nations.
Pirates are just a glorified word for thieves and murders and rapists, at any period in history. You watch too many movies if you think pirates were anything like the ones in say, pirates of the carribean.
The the whole freaking point, pirates are not supposed to get along with other people, do you get along with mass murders? How about serial killers or rapists? I don't think you understand the concept of pirates.
Actually, it seems most people get along with mass murderers, rapists and serial killers just fine. In fact, these individuals are often touted as being extremely charismatic and friendly, sometimes being outstanding members of the community or religious figures.
'Petty' criminals are a far different breed than the crazies, I tell you. A dumb villain knows to hide his crime and try and fake it. A 'smart' villain often can be found with possessions, returning to the scene of the crimes, etc, etc.
It's not the guys who are jack-asses you have to watch out for. It's your favorite neighbor or the uncle you idolized since grade school. These are the creeps.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.09.07 01:47:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Empyre on 07/09/2008 01:49:04
Originally by: Gamesguy
Please find the the pirates that were about "honor" and "fairness". Convoy raiders in the two world wars were not pirates, they were military units of their respective nations.
Pirates are just a glorified word for thieves and murders and rapists, at any period in history. You watch too many movies if you think pirates were anything like the ones in say, pirates of the carribean.
The the whole freaking point, pirates are not supposed to get along with other people, do you get along with mass murders? How about serial killers or rapists? I don't think you understand the concept of pirates.
You were the one who brought honor and fairness into this, not me. I simply was responding to another post, you started getting all defensive about those terms. In fact, I never ever used them in my post.
Seriously. Does BoB do any quality control anymore for its pilots?
Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish. |
Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.07 03:28:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
Originally by: Elise Randolph
He INVADED in a defenseless shuttle though, by your definition you shouldn't have killed him since - "on his best day" he couldn't have attacked you back. Right?
Your thread should have been "I hate people who suicide in high sec" and not "people who shoot defenseless people are deplorable". You've clearly dabbled in the latter.
That's just foolishness - have you EVER been to 0.0?
If you have, you're making a straw man argument intentionally harping upon a point which is irrelevant in context. If you haven't you're entirely ignorant and should exit the conversation when talking with people who know what it is they're talking about - because clearly you do not.
In 0.0 for many/most players metagaming is king. Scout Alts, cyno Alts etc. Many/most of them in NPC corps so their true affliation isn't known.
*I* fly around in shuttles in 0.0 quite frequently and I'm a valid war target to my enemies when I do so for very good reason. I'm flying in a shuttle - to where I'm going. I'll be flying BACK in a combat ship, probably a new combat ship.
It's a logistics run and interrupting those is about as valid as it gets.
It could be a scout run or a cyno run (shuttle in, buy a cyno and frig and *bang* instant cap fleet if the system has no cyno jammers) etc.
Ignoring 'defenseless' ships in 0.0 unless you KNOW the person is a true noob is just downright foolish.
I see my post went right over your head. Not really much I can do about that honestly.
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I need a good sig, someone make one for me. |
DiamondEdges
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.09.07 03:36:00 -
[215]
sounds like this man simply got ganked too many times in his poor little hauler. whine moan and groan.. Haulers can have great loot, and as a PIRATE, thats what yer going for. it don't matter how old you are, what your in or who your with.
It's all about making isk off other peoples drops, plain and simple, what the heck do you think a real life pirate did?, think they made sure to ask permission to plunder and all that? you think they went after only the hardened navy ships? you're kidding youself man, grow up stop whining and next time make your post with a bit more thought.
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althan gnartians
Gallente
Bipolar Barnstorming
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Posted - 2008.09.07 10:49:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Forge Lag
In EvE you have my consent the moment I undock. And this comes from carebear that will not fight unless cornered
So you will make every war dec mutual and in general favor the removal of concord entirely?
Stop pretending you want a with no safezone if you make your living in empire under concord protection as the empire pvp'ers like to do.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.07 11:05:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/09/2008 11:09:02
Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/09/2008 11:08:44
Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/09/2008 11:07:13
Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/09/2008 11:05:51
Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/09/2008 11:05:35
Originally by: Empyre
Edited by: Empyre on 07/09/2008 01:49:04
Originally by: Gamesguy
Please find the the pirates that were about "honor" and "fairness". Convoy raiders in the two world wars were not pirates, they were military units of their respective nations.
Pirates are just a glorified word for thieves and murders and rapists, at any period in history. You watch too many movies if you think pirates were anything like the ones in say, pirates of the carribean.
The the whole freaking point, pirates are not supposed to get along with other people, do you get along with mass murders? How about serial killers or rapists? I don't think you understand the concept of pirates.
You were the one who brought honor and fairness into this, not me. I simply was responding to another post, you started getting all defensive about those terms. In fact, I never ever used them in my post.
Seriously. Does BoB do any quality control anymore for its pilots?
That was more to the OP than to you. I was merely too lazy to delete your part of the post.
Originally by: OP
My point here is simple... if you believe "non-consensual" PVP means picking on the weak and defenseless, you are pathetic beyond words. It takes no skill, no effort, and no honor to gank a noob or a hauler or an afk missioner. It takes only a complete lack of self respect and honor.
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lollerwaffle
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.07 12:46:00 -
[218]
Edited by: lollerwaffle on 07/09/2008 12:46:39
Best downtime read I've had in ages, and yes, read the whole thread. Dont normally post anything but this one tickles my fancy 
Anyway could the OP please provide some decent counter-arguments to the arguments made in posts 185, 160, 164 etc.? All I see is the OP calling 'pirates/gankers' names while not understanding the term 'non-consensual', while only quoting and replying to weaker posts and completely ignoring well thought out arguments. Any chance you could prove me wrong mate?
BTW if this was trollpost, 10/10 for making it go 8pages long. Also,
Originally by: Morgon Borga
OP is obviously a roleplayer
wins thread imo
edit: was gonna linky/quote examples but meh eve is back up
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.07 12:54:00 -
[219]
I sstoped as soon as you hindged your argument on any notion of 'honour' or for that matter 'self-resepct'.
I say get rid of concord and lets lock and load!!
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GO BLUE!! |
TimMc
Gallente
SolaR KillerS
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:33:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Gojyu
Quote:
Honor is, but at this point I seriously doubt you're capable of understanding it, much less employing it. Please, surprise me and show some comprehension and analytical skills. Or don't, I mean I wouldn't want to tell you what to do.
Eve online is a video game, a game that actively encourages aggressive behaviour, gives players complete anonymity and provides an environment where your actions have zero consequences. If you want honorable behavior and fair play, I'd suggest a local sporting team, not a video game
Thank you for proving my point so thoroughly. Although, I'm guessing most here won't even hear it woosh as the points flies past them.
So you were whining about people who whine about whiners?
oh dear... please stay off the forums.
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RagnhildR tu
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:40:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Though even I'm not craven enough to bother trying to kill shuttles all the time.
As long as people keep hauling tons of valuable stuff in shuttles, I'll keep killing shuttles whenever I get the chance to.
The absolute best ISK any of my corpmates got was from a noobship. Not POS theft (done that), not killing freighters with faction BS (done that, too), not faction-fit battleships, not even high-value industrial/transport ships. Best loot any of us ever got was from a noobship.
"Hauling tons of stuff in a shuttle" WTF how do you haul tons of stuff in a shuttle.
Those carebears that are deemed to be legitmate targets are what keeps this game going, so go ahead blow them all out of Eve, soon you'll have the whole game to yourself, If you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, then you have no eggs at all, morons. It's the carebears that produce the stuff you clowns fly around in, drive the carebears out and you clueless bunch will be able to gank empty space.
What are you doing in my pod? GTFO! |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:42:00 -
[222]
Quote:
"Hauling tons of stuff in a shuttle" WTF how do you haul tons of stuff in a shuttle.
BPOS, IMPLANTS to name two
Tons as a slang term for "a hell of a lot" not literally tons.
SKUNK
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.09.07 16:30:00 -
[223]
Originally by: RagnhildR tu
"Hauling tons of stuff in a shuttle" WTF how do you haul tons of stuff in a shuttle.
Those carebears that are deemed to be legitmate targets are what keeps this game going, so go ahead blow them all out of Eve, soon you'll have the whole game to yourself, If you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, then you have no eggs at all, morons. It's the carebears that produce the stuff you clowns fly around in, drive the carebears out and you clueless bunch will be able to gank empty space.
I build my own stuff, so you can all go to hell (in game) as far as I'm concerned.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2008.09.27 02:54:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Dez Affinity
Actually there's lots of skill involved in getting people to fight who don't want to.
Also go get a definition of consent.
Heh - No sh!t :-P
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Sin Fae
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.09.27 07:39:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Sin Fae on 27/09/2008 07:39:32
I don't pick on the weak and defensless, I pick on the spineless and stupid. Here is a video of me engaging in PvP in a shuttle for crying out loud. And the other party would not even defend his stuff AGAINST A FRIGGING SHUTTLE.
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halp me
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.09.27 07:45:00 -
[226]
Inconceivable!!!
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Daevonar
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:48:00 -
[227]
I personally couldn't care less about morals, or honour or any of that, this is in part a roleplay game, the aim of which is to have fun and enjoy yourself and as such you can choose to play your character with as much or little of those qualities as you like.
However there is one responsibility you cannot ignore. This game has to be fun for everyone, else people will stop playing it, numbers will drop, and the servers will be turned off. Then no-one will be able to play, including you.
Anyone in 0.0 space is fair game... all new players are warned, continuously, by the tutorial and by everyone they meet that 0.0 space is no-holds barred, dangerous space to be in.
However if you continuously harrass and annoy new players by blowing them to pieces just becasue they are weaker than you and you can, you are ruining the fun for them, and they wil leventually log-off, cancel their account, and tell all their friends what a rubbish and impossible game EVE is.
Even if they stick around they will find it very hard to actually progress to the point where they can start doing meaningful things, or making a meaningful contribution to the game... and yes, providing a decent and worthwhile target for your gunsights.
By ganking on new players you are hurting the game, not in some moral or altruistic sense, but in a very real and viscal way.
Grow up, and have some responsibility for the game you supposedly want to keep playing. |
Keeves
Minmatar
the evil ones
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:29:00 -
[228]
Posting in a "im standing on a moral highground" thread spouted from the lips of an elitist hypocrit.
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
United Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:31:00 -
[229]
Jonny Depp is portrayed as romantic adventurer, he is nowhere close to a pirate, he rather is a hero and a passionate lover, not to mention his delicate taste and touch.
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Lord Makk
Phaze-9
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:21:00 -
[230]
They are there. In your way. Obliterate them.
It's really not harder than that.
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Kellen Tavadon
Caldari
Orion Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:48:00 -
[231]
I'd like to throw it out there that EVE is literally a sci-fi real life game.
There's no such thing as a safe place 'less you're in the grave :P
You can be punched in school, shot in a mall, murdered in a bathroom stall,etc.
So why should you be safe if you're absentminded and flying into dangerous air space with hostiles in it?
That said the only type of concensual PVP is duels, wars (sometimes), and tournaments.
And surpringly coming from a person like me who is a carebear I just have to say:
"Suck it up buttercup." |
Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:20:00 -
[232]
Why was this crap thread necroed?
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Darius Falc
Gallente
Deathwatch Ltd
Utterly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:26:00 -
[233]
This is one of the silliest topics I've seen on the boards for a *very* long time.
non-consensual means simply "without consent". In other words the person doesn't agree to be engaged. Whether they happen to be flying a defenseless shuttle or a Titan is a completely moot point.
As for the issue of honour...I laughed so hard I almost fell off my seat. I wouldn't attack a defenseless shuttle because of my honour?? If I let a defensless shuttle through when it might be a 10 day old alt carrying an absolution BPO (oh..BoB...never carry absolution BPOs in a hauler....FYI) then I'd be an idiot of gargantuan proportions.
The Eve universe is a harsh place...if you happen to be daft enough to fly through low sec when your 10 days old then you'll likely as not learn a valuable lesson that will serve you well in the days to come...I know I did.
Of course..some people never learn...
DF.
***********************************************
The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
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Rhivre
Caldari
Carlsberg Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:53:00 -
[234]
its not non consensual if you are can baited, you make the decision to retaliate.
I am big fluffy pink carebear, and even i have figured out the rules of engagement in 6 weeks playing.
Also, never make the foolish assumption that a 2 month old character is a 2 month old newbie, and even if they are, 2 month old chars can be quite scary.
If you assume a shuttle is a scout, or a rookie ship is a scout, then assume also that even a 2 week old character is the alt of someone with a big scary ship that can take down your can flipping ship in 1 volley.
non consenual means...i did not agree to it, or i was forced into it. Neither of these apply to high sec baiting. The miner/mission runner does not have to shoot you. You cannot fire at the miner/missioner unless they do something first, that means, they agree that you can shoot back at them.
Ignorance of the rules of aggression does not = non consent. If unsure, they can always ask their corp/local/whatever.
So in short, can flipping is consensual pvp because they make the decision to aggress.
I have had baiters come into my missions and take my stuff, but funnily enough, they didnt get to shoot at me because I didnt send any missiles towards the flashy red guy on my screen.
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Dracon Zethera
Gallente
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.30 16:43:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Quote:
A smarter man than me once said "If you're in a fair fight in EVE, you've done something wrong"
Indeed that man was wise. I'm not waving this banner around for a "fair" fight. Who the hell wants a fair fight? I just prefer a fight of any kind. Shooting fish in a barrel is neither fair nor a fight. Which really, that is my whole point, that it's not even really a fight to begin with.
I can say that I like a fair fight, but the kind of fight I like more is one which is stacked in the enemies favor.
I like a challenge. |
Lyta Reimalken
Minmatar
No Fear Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.09.30 17:37:00 -
[236]
To the mechwarrior initiated, i'd say my methodology for pvp resembles the clan way of thinking :) If I know what i am up against, I will take the smallest or weakest ship that I am confident will still win. I dont see the point in ganking some ****** who doesnt know what a warp disruptor is, but similarly, dropping a carrier on a ratting cruiser is astronomically gay. Be brave without being stupid :) |
Yeildtome
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Posted - 2008.09.30 18:49:00 -
[237]
Any pilot heading thru a low-sec or nul-sec gate regardless of the ship they are flying or their age (noobness) gets a popup warning stating that it is a very dangerous action that they are undertaking, if they don't get the popup they have already dissmissed it and is fully aware of its meaning.
This basically means low-sec and nul-sec is fair game for any kill, noob or not, shuttle or not, and nobody can be accused of unfairness or noob bashing or even being a hopocrite if they proclaim to be honest, if they make a kill.
A freighter pilot has to spend at least 3 months minimum in the game b4 they can fly the ship and should be well aware that ppl will covet the belongings that are in their cargo holds. same goes for any pilot in any ship (including shuttles) carrying valuable cargo, they must know its worth. So knowing this it is by no means cowardly to make profit from some1's cargo hold or module drop (in the case of CNR's etc) in high-sec. I do like the change ccp made regarding concorde response tho, as it is still possible to take advantage of profitable suicide situation in empire space, but slows down the relentless cycle ganking that was happening
It is totally fine (not cowardly) to kill any pilot and his pod in empire war decs, as the game was designed specifically to allow this, I do think perma deccing noob corps is lame greifing tho as the perpetrators only reason is to cause greif to noobs and derive pleasure from that greif and don't really make any other sort of gain from the slaughter.
On a side note I believe FW corps being decced by non FW corps that retreat to the faction space that their enemy can't go into is cowardly too.
And as a parting swipe at all the greifing noob slaughterers i can't recall anywhere where CCP actually states that this game is a non con-sensual pvp game. I deffo think that CCP want non con-sensual pvp elements embeded in into the game so as to give it a hard edge, but i think they genuinely want the new players to feel safe intil they get a handle on how the game basically works and the choices they can make.
with all the specifically designed non consensual pvp elements in-game it seems that ccp want to give you a choice to avoid it:
0.0, lowsec = don't go there
empire wars = cost something to enact, change corps.
empire ganking = don't carry enough valuable loot to warrant ganking
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