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Falcon Not overpowered?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ethan Hunte TARDZ	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:19:00 - [1] Think again. Sensor stength of 101 with two tech 2 eccms on a combat recon ship and still get perma jammed. Yeah chance based my ass. the only recon ship in game with a definitive electronic warfare that (since the boost) works 100%. whine whine whine
Fuglife Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:22:00 - [2] I see your in the right corp.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:25:00 - [3] You're doing it wrong. 6 racials on a falcon nets a total of 80-odd jam strength which isn't even cumulative so your chances of being jammed are only about 60% with that strength. So one ship has a 60% chance every 20 seconds of taking the other out of the fight, and to do so has to dedicate its entire fit to it, while having bubblewrap for protection. Sounds quite good to me. Fail troll is fail. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:32:00 - [4] i demand racial modules for all ewar, u hear me CCP? i want my anti caldari web which stops them right there, a TP which will make them planetsizzed, and TD... ermmm scratch that RSD to make them whimper with 5 km targeting range. and I WANT IT NOW ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Fuglife I see your in the right corp. ________________________ I'M POOR
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:34:00 - [6] i demand racial modules for all ewar, u hear me CCP? i want my anti caldari web which stops them right there, a TP which will make them planetsizzed, and TD... ermmm scratch that RSD to make them whimper with 5 km targeting range. and I WANT IT NOW ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Kano Sekor Amarr Burning Steel Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Akuma Tsukai i demand racial modules for all ewar, u hear me CCP? i want my anti caldari web which stops them right there, a TP which will make them planetsizzed, and TD... ermmm scratch that RSD to make them whimper with 5 km targeting range. and I WANT IT NOW WTB Caldari Racial TD best module in game :D ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Akuma Tsukai on 05/09/2008 14:48:08 man triple post? some lag today. ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Cautet Precision Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:18:00 - [9] Edited by: Cautet on 05/09/2008 15:20:45 Edited by: Cautet on 05/09/2008 15:19:44 Originally by: Akuma Tsukai i demand racial modules for all ewar, u hear me CCP? i want my anti caldari web which stops them right there, a TP which will make them planetsizzed, and TD... ermmm scratch that RSD to make them whimper with 5 km targeting range. and I WANT IT NOW You want webs that only work on 1/4 of ships so you need to dedicate 4 midslots to using webs to guarentee you have the races all coverered, plus another midslot for galenti because they are very common. Plus all the lowslots to making the midslots work. Plus all the rigs to making the midslots work. I HAVE THE SOLUTION FOR YOU: THE 'SPECIAL' 5 STEP PLAN FOR RACIAL WEBBIFIER 1. Buy a set of coloured crayons. 2. Open you ship fitting window, make active a ship with as many midpoints as you can find. I suggest the Pilgrim because of it's cloaking bonus. Fill the mids with webs and don't forget a cloak. Don't bother with other fittings, unless you want to jam some short range weapons on it for giggles. 3. Drink a bottle of vodka. 4. Make sure you have only active modules visable and undock. 5. Setup your new 'special' webs by colouring in the racials on your screen Away you go!!!!! Don't forget to log in to vent and x up for some once in a lifetime pew pew Edit: don't be discouraged if you die a few times, as it can be quite a steep learning experience.
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:27:00 - [10] falcons are fine, eccm needs some modifying, arazu/lach need strength boost to 7.5% or 10%... then its all cake.

supr3m3justic3 Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Fuglife I see your in the right corp. ha ah aha ha aha ha ah ah aha __________________________________________________
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.05 17:05:00 - [12] I see this- Originally by: Ethan Hunte whine whine whine And this- Originally by: Ethan Hunte falcaon waa And this- TARDZ and i lol Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Evanade You're doing it wrong. 6 racials on a falcon nets a total of 80-odd jam strength which isn't even cumulative so your chances of being jammed are only about 60% with that strength. So one ship has a 60% chance every 20 seconds of taking the other out of the fight, and to do so has to dedicate its entire fit to it, while having bubblewrap for protection. Sounds quite good to me. Fail troll is fail. Maybe you failed to notice that even a ships that fits defences agaisnt it is still screwed ? Any ship with 2 sensor boosters wont get hit quite hard by a Lachesis. Any ship with 2 cap boosters wont get cap drained too badly by a curse. Any ship with 2 ECCM will still get jammed by a falcon .... Any ships can get webbed by rapiers but thats about to be changed, so.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Trevor Warps Maybe you failed to notice that even a ships that fits defences agaisnt it is still screwed ? Any ship with 2 sensor boosters wont get hit quite hard by a Lachesis. Any ship with 2 cap boosters wont get cap drained too badly by a curse. Any ship with 2 ECCM will still get jammed by a falcon .... Any ships can get webbed by rapiers but thats about to be changed, so. The thing about it is that no ewar counter eliminates that ewar's effect. It is reasonble to be jammed by a falcon if you fit an eccm. This is especially true as you consider that a Falcon devotes alot more raw slottage to ewar than an Arazu/Lachesis. Now, all of this isn't to say that the Arazu/Lachesis are fine (they're not), but is to say that ECCM should probably be boosted some before we start considering an all out nerf of ecm/ewar. Also, you neglect the effect that TD's have against Minnie ships. Falloff based ships (projectiles, really) are 100% screwed and without any counter whatsoever to tracking disruptors. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:08:00 - [15] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 05/09/2008 20:10:04 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Trevor Warps Maybe you failed to notice that even a ships that fits defences agaisnt it is still screwed ? Any ship with 2 sensor boosters wont get hit quite hard by a Lachesis. Any ship with 2 cap boosters wont get cap drained too badly by a curse. Any ship with 2 ECCM will still get jammed by a falcon .... Any ships can get webbed by rapiers but thats about to be changed, so. The thing about it is that no ewar counter eliminates that ewar's effect. It is reasonble to be jammed by a falcon if you fit an eccm. This is especially true as you consider that a Falcon devotes alot more raw slottage to ewar than an Arazu/Lachesis. Now, all of this isn't to say that the Arazu/Lachesis are fine (they're not), but is to say that ECCM should probably be boosted some before we start considering an all out nerf of ecm/ewar. Also, you neglect the effect that TD's have against Minnie ships. Falloff based ships (projectiles, really) are 100% screwed and without any counter whatsoever to tracking disruptors. -Liang you can fly closer against damps or pilot manually against TDs, you can put your drones on that curse or minmatar recon, you cant do anything against being jammed by a falcon but prey your eccm or mate saves you, that is the difference and that makes ECM somehow too strong. luck should not determine the result of a fight and especially flying a falcon has nothing to do with skill, you warp in @150km and start jamming and when they tune speed down with the patch they will be even stronger (it will be next to impossible to force one off effectively or get one, its a useless attempt now too because they just warp @150km on the other side)
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:11:00 - [16] Quote: Also, you neglect the effect that TD's have against turret ships. turret based ships are 100% screwed and without any counter whatsoever to tracking disruptors. fixed for ya. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic you can fly closer against damps or pilot manually against TDs Flying manually doesn't generally work due to the recons being much smaller than you are. Flying closer generally isn't an option. Quote: you can put your drones on that curse or minmatar recon, you cant do anything against being jammed by a falcon but prey your eccm or mate saves you, that is the difference and that makes ECM somehow too strong. Put your drones on the falcon? Wait, he's a long way away. Did you bring anything to the fight to counter range? No? I'm crying for you - really. Quote: luck should not determine the result of a fight and especially flying a falcon has nothing to do with skill, you warp in @150km and start jamming and when they tune speed down with the patch they will be even stronger (it will be next to impossible to force one off effectively or get one, its a useless attempt now too because they just warp @150km on the other side) If you assume that a Falcon is only 150km away, the counters are legion. Fit or fly one. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Methesda	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:23:00 - [18] If ECM got a nerf, no-one would use it, imho. sorry, but !/signed. Originally by: northwesten troll? learn what a troll is moron!
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Methesda If ECM got a nerf, no-one would use it, imho. sorry, but !/signed. That's really one of the problems with Eve. Either CCP overboosts something else (and thus there's no real point in flying ECM) or they overnerf it (and there's no real point in flying ECM). That said, I think the thing that kills people about ECM is that you can't target for 20 seconds. Maybe we should just change the cycle time/duration on ECM to ~5s. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Liang Nuren That said, I think the thing that kills people about ECM is that you can't target for 20 seconds. Maybe we should just change the cycle time/duration on ECM to ~5s. -Liang 5 seconds? Even a 50% jam chance would literally perma jam a bs 10 seconds maybe, but it's not like 20 seconds is that long. It's also how long the ECM is useless if it misses a cycle, and that much longer to change to the interceptor that's suiciding toward you

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu 5 seconds? Even a 50% jam chance would literally perma jam a bs 10 seconds maybe, but it's not like 20 seconds is that long. It's also how long the ECM is useless if it misses a cycle, and that much longer to change to the interceptor that's suiciding toward you Thou shalt not block my stealth boost! At any rate, people's frustration with ECM entirely stems from the appearance that they're just "sitting there" any more than if another form of ewar is on them. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Borat Sangdiev	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Liang Nuren That said, I think the thing that kills people about ECM is that you can't target for 20 seconds. Maybe we should just change the cycle time/duration on ECM to ~5s. -Liang 5 seconds? Even a 50% jam chance would literally perma jam a bs 10 seconds maybe, but it's not like 20 seconds is that long. It's also how long the ECM is useless if it misses a cycle, and that much longer to change to the interceptor that's suiciding toward you another problem is its not only the 20 seconds that you are jammed, its another 5+ seconds to re-lock your target and have the modules activate depending on your targets signature radius. ECM is totally superior to all other forms of ewar, there is no rival.
Borat Sangdiev	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Atsuko Ratu 5 seconds? Even a 50% jam chance would literally perma jam a bs 10 seconds maybe, but it's not like 20 seconds is that long. It's also how long the ECM is useless if it misses a cycle, and that much longer to change to the interceptor that's suiciding toward you Thou shalt not block my stealth boost! At any rate, people's frustration with ECM entirely stems from the appearance that they're just "sitting there" any more than if another form of ewar is on them. -Liang I think its more than appearance liang, in effect a victim of ecm is made no more useful than a shuttle in a fight, less useless perhaps depending on your mass.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Liang Nuren That said, I think the thing that kills people about ECM is that you can't target for 20 seconds. Maybe we should just change the cycle time/duration on ECM to ~5s. -Liang 5 seconds? Even a 50% jam chance would literally perma jam a bs 10 seconds maybe, but it's not like 20 seconds is that long. It's also how long the ECM is useless if it misses a cycle, and that much longer to change to the interceptor that's suiciding toward you I would go with 5-10 seconds of jam, and a 20 second cycle timer hmmm or maybe make it ecm strength/sensor strength -> % of jam cycle time you are jammed.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Borat Sangdiev I think its more than appearance liang, in effect a victim of ecm is made no more useful than a shuttle in a fight, less useless perhaps depending on your mass. Drones aren't useless, FOFs aren't useless, smartbombs, you can still be remote repped and sponge damage/Ewar, etc. You are not useless. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I would go with 5-10 seconds of jam, and a 20 second cycle timer hmmm or maybe make it ecm strength/sensor strength -> % of jam cycle time you are jammed. The problem with that is that it leaves Falcons 100% vulnerable to fast moving interceptors. They literally could not jam them. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:21:00 - [27] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 05/09/2008 21:22:43 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I would go with 5-10 seconds of jam, and a 20 second cycle timer hmmm or maybe make it ecm strength/sensor strength -> % of jam cycle time you are jammed. The problem with that is that it leaves Falcons 100% vulnerable to fast moving interceptors. They literally could not jam them. -Liang in the first case 14 strength on a falcon / 12 sensor strength on a crow -> 100% chance to jam, gets jammed for n seconds, falcon warps out/cloaks 14 strength on a falcon / 12 sensor strength on a crow -> 100% chance to jam and 14/12>1 so I guess it would truncate to a 1, aka the full 20 second jam cycle, same as it was (hmm or would it get extra jam time ) now on a carrier you won't jam it very often (as it is now, unless he say fits all racials just to get a <carrier type>) but when you do jam it you would only have it jammed for a few seconds, plus it would give arazus a bit of a role with scan res scripts to keep them shut down while the falcon is cycling for another jam
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton in the first case 14 strength on a falcon / 12 sensor strength on a crow -> 100% chance to jam, gets jammed for n seconds, falcon warps out/cloaks 14 strength on a falcon / 12 sensor strength on a crow -> 100% chance to jam and 14/12>1 so I guess it would truncate to a 1, aka the full 20 second jam cycle, same as it was now on a carrier you won't jam it very often (as it is now, unless he say fits all racials just to get a <carrier type>) but when you do jam it you would only have it jammed for a few seconds, plus it would give arazus a bit of a role with scan res scripts to keep them shut down while the falcon is cycling for another jam Eh, it might work. I'd have to play with it before knowing really. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton right, just in the idea phase, haven't gotten around to number crunching, and tbh I'm a wee bit lazy to do that then there is the issue of if it misses a jam and gets hit it is dead after 2 hits from just about anything, and it barely survives the first. falcons are also rather situational, as gang size goes up they seem to get less useful. but in them 3 man pirate gangs they are almost too good. Heh, really if damps on specialized ships were as useful as they really should be you wouldn't see so many Falcons in pirate gangs. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.05 22:12:00 - [30] I can't beleive we see peopel whining about ecm beign weak or dampeners beign weak. I have only 2 words for those. TARGET PAINTERS! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough



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