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This lag has to go NOW.

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Earthan	Posted - 2004.06.13 11:32:00 - [61] Originally by: surrender now Hmm i think its either your secret setup ........... or Server provider ISP .......... Because i use a 700k connection and i get no lag....... fleet battles allways lag esspically if real large get over it if u warp in and its laggy and u cant do nothing then turn of eve so your ship auto warps away then log back in ........ its not rocket science. I think u all moan to much its not that laggy for me .... and u say u have a 512k or whatever well thats probably why get 1mb then you have the right to moan if it lags. Guys the bandtwith has nothing to do with it imho. Look how much the client exchanges data with the server , its really little . Propably a 128 kbits works as fine for Eve as 30 mb.What matters is the time of response between the client and the server. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Cerryh	Posted - 2004.06.13 11:39:00 - [62] My guess is that the problem is the following, and CCP simply forgot about it: In a cluster every single machine talks to every other machine. Meaning if you have 2 machines, they talk to each other with say 10kb/s. Now add another 2 machines. suddenly you have 60kb/s instead of the 20kb/s you expected. Since machine A is talking to B, C, D (30kb/s, B is talking to C and D (another 20kb/s) and C and D are talking to each other (another 10kb/s). Now take a cluster with 20 machines, and suddenly double that, and you have one seriously overloaded internal network. (All data-rate numbers are made up, and this is just a guess what went wrong, not a offical CCP explaination. It's based upon experience though, and explains those problems nicely)
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.06.13 12:11:00 - [63] Quote: In a cluster every single machine talks to every other machine. Meaning if you have 2 machines, they talk to each other with say 10kb/s. Now add another 2 machines. suddenly you have 60kb/s instead of the 20kb/s you expected. Since machine A is talking to B, C, D (30kb/s, B is talking to C and D (another 20kb/s) and C and D are talking to each other (another 10kb/s). I doubt it, since clusters tend to be on gigabit ethernet or better. I've had lag problems I haven't encountered before either, like when you hit an npc, the damage circle takes a full 4 seconds to update after your weapons shows the damage inflicted. Or drones taking longer to respond to commands. People tend to automatically think that it's always a hardware problem, but often when you upgrade a cluster, you have to re-optimize the MPI (Message Passing Interface) with new settings for the new perfomance. If you don't, the system will insert wait states in there. In short, CCP is probably STILL re-tuning after their upgrade, and isn't telling us about it (as usual). Not that I blame them, because sometimes no network engineer REALLY knows what's going on, no matter how smart they are. It's just a matter of monitoring the perfomance of the network and playing with the settings. Obviously, given the track record of the downtime for the hardware upgrades, CCP needs to hire better network engineers, or at least pay them better so that they DO care.
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.06.13 12:23:00 - [64] Originally by: surrender now Hmm i think its either your secret setup ........... or Server provider ISP .......... Because i use a 700k connection and i get no lag....... fleet battles allways lag esspically if real large get over it if u warp in and its laggy and u cant do nothing then turn of eve so your ship auto warps away then log back in ........ its not rocket science. I think u all moan to much its not that laggy for me .... and u say u have a 512k or whatever well thats probably why get 1mb then you have the right to moan if it lags. You clearly have no clue what your talking about. I have been in fleetbattles, since almost day 1 in this game. I had no package loss, nor mem loss, during the battle last night. I have ghosted my machine, i have ckecked everything, nothing wrong with my provider eiter. My machine is built for gamming, is a highend machine, and my connection is 1024/512, cable. So please dont tell me to get over it, i have been around since Beta, your answer clearly showes you have not. please think before responding. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.06.13 12:35:00 - [65] We need some kind of official posting on this matter. A dev blog perhaps ?
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.06.13 12:54:00 - [66] i really dont understand where your lag comes from i have already stated that i have a 1.7ghz celeron cpu 80 gig hd, 256mb ram, and 64 meg nividia gforce i jumped into about 50 ships today gthering outside a station and it lagged for about 10 seconds and after that it was fine my ship didnt grow unresponsive or jump around like a riddlin kid i defrag my hdd regularaly and i have modified the preformance of my chipsets and video cards and close all other programms including my antivirus software one thing i do is reboot my computure every 5 hours so my ram flushes and it works really well, only time i tend to lag is when i am in asteroid feilds funnily enough lol oh also my computure just have eve and windows xp as well as a few things like office ect, maybe its just lack of maintance on your computure I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Hardin	Posted - 2004.06.13 12:57:00 - [67] FFS it is not maintenance... You have here a LOT of experienced long term players of this game on this thread who are saying that LAG has got WORSE since the upgrade... We are not all IMAGINING it!
UndergrounD	Posted - 2004.06.13 13:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Reloaded INC i jumped into about 50 ships today gthering outside a station and it lagged for about 10 seconds and after that it was fine my ship didnt grow unresponsive or jump around like a riddlin kid I'm not one of the games better PvP players, but I'm pretty sure 10 seconds can often make or break a battle or combat scenario. It certainly makes all the difference if you are in a frigate. -----------------------------------------------
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.06.13 13:11:00 - [69] Originally by: UndergrounD Originally by: Reloaded INC i jumped into about 50 ships today gthering outside a station and it lagged for about 10 seconds and after that it was fine my ship didnt grow unresponsive or jump around like a riddlin kid I'm not one of the games better PvP players, but I'm pretty sure 10 seconds can often make or break a battle or combat scenario. It certainly makes all the difference if you are in a frigate. Indeed, put it this way, if you jumped into an SA/CA blockade, within 10 seconds your armour would be gone and you would have multiple cruisers/frigates orbiting you web/scramling you... In a fight LAG means life or death... if you lag, you die, simple... Aneu ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Tsual	Posted - 2004.06.13 13:44:00 - [70] Edited by: Tsual on 13/06/2004 13:47:01 Originally by: Hardin FFS it is not maintenance... You have here a LOT of experienced long term players of this game on this thread who are saying that LAG has got WORSE since the upgrade... We are not all IMAGINING it! Being a player means you only face the tip of the iceberg of a game. So when this is only the tip of the iceberg, then I wonder how big the iceberg itself realy is. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar.
Tristan	Posted - 2004.06.13 13:47:00 - [71] Reloaded INC, i am a sys admin IRL. i manage a network of around 250 worskstations + servers which is part of a much larger country wide network (changes in size due to laptops, palmtops, and people moving etc) Please dont patronise me and other people, i know full well how to maintain my machine. Like Einheriar i have been around since beta and the only other time i have seen lag as bad as this was during Armageddon day. I was one of 4 CA ships that briefly engaged an enemy apoc yesterday after the fleet battle in UQ and the lag then was terrible, never mind with 50 ships in system.
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.06.13 16:41:00 - [72] Well the game is very very choppy still, i have tried defferent setups, maxing my machine and the connection i have. still something wrong, i can seriusly say now its not me, its somethin with the game. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.06.13 19:09:00 - [73] An official response from CCP would be much appreciated... Aneu ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Heritor	Posted - 2004.06.13 20:56:00 - [74] Very laggy for me as well.......forums also seem to take longer than usual to load
Kulach	Posted - 2004.06.13 21:01:00 - [75] Originally by: Heritor Very laggy for me as well.......forums also seem to take longer than usual to load Yeah. And still no reply from CCP Just because something is fixed doesn't mean you can't break it
Tristan	Posted - 2004.06.13 22:18:00 - [76] At least respond with something CCP, dont just ignore us. We arent flamming we just want to help fix this problem in any way we can, provide any info we can in order to put you guys on the right track so you can find and nail the problem. Lag has killed mmpog's in the past, please take our concerns seriously and bash the servers into shape. (some affected by this lag would be glad to help out, abeit with a big lump hammer)
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2004.06.13 22:34:00 - [77] i think they're trying to find out the cause of these lags and then make a meaningful response instead of just saying "we're looking into it"... just a thought. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.06.13 22:40:00 - [78] i can run 2 accounts fraps and loads of **** in background with zero lag under good "net speed days" Im telling ya these guys didnt upgrade server they just leached onto UK2's network... [UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2][UK2] "Teh lord of Nonni"
Jonkai	Posted - 2004.06.13 22:48:00 - [79] Everything is fine for me, must be something wrong somewhere though for all these peeps to have problems
Totty	Posted - 2004.06.13 23:27:00 - [80] The lag is a lot worse that we have had recently, I blame it on the hardware changes, somethings not right since then. It seems to depend on where you are in the EVE universe. I run 2x accounts on 2x pc's... one char can be in a busy system with no problems, the other can be approaching a stargate in an empty system and the ship bunny-jumps to the gate. At other times, I can have both cars in space together, most times they are well synchronised, but recently on occasions one screen shows things happening 3-4 seconds after the other. Both computers run through the same WLAN.
Larossa	Posted - 2004.06.13 23:34:00 - [81] Edited by: Larossa on 14/06/2004 00:50:36 Edited by: Larossa on 14/06/2004 00:01:42 I often do missions which involves a lot of docking at stations and over a couple of hours I will black screen at least once or twice while docking. It does not clear and only a relog will fix it (not the same station either). Before the upgrade I rarely if ever experienced ctds, now I usually get one a day. Another edit ~ at eve time 00.40 there was a battle in HLW and it would seem to have been a reasonable sized one. My point is that our side (CA) reported little or no lag so this lag issue seems to be somewhat random. This lag can also affect mining, its not so bad when the excess ore disappearing into space is Veldspar but if it's the rarer ores ..........
T'el'Alana Luathin	Posted - 2004.06.14 00:53:00 - [82] Yes. I'm also experiencing lag whence I didn't before, and a agent runner friend of mine has CTD'd when he didn't before.. So I cast my "you really should look into this CCP" vote onto the table with the rest of u guys. T. -- always look on the bright side of the cloning facility.
Tristan	Posted - 2004.06.14 01:15:00 - [83] Edited by: Tristan on 14/06/2004 01:16:35 I have heard rumours that it was caused by faulty wiring in a switch, and that the problem is now fixed. odd that the lag still hasnt gone away. Although. it isnt ALWAYS as bad as it was earlier. Still, a reply would be nice one whats going on CCP! Because its STILL too laggy.
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2004.06.14 04:33:00 - [84] the lag was nasty and during a jumpin at 60 it took every bit 30 to 40 sec to load screen. I started fighting scrambling then found myself being fired on by 2 tempests and that DAMN blackbird. I took alot of damage but finally warped back to station 800k later {few seconds} I headed back into the vol gate at 60. But this time the screen took way to long I hit my hot keys to floorit. and clicked on the screen to move and sat and sat, no mods, no screen, no STAIN or CFS Or Xetic... THEN Ship out of control was the next thing I seen just before returning to my clone station, Never seen who what or with what. But , ship and pod lost............ I normally survive all fleet battles. and I have lost alot of ships learning. BUT, dont kill me with fn lag...... That really sucks and takes away the fun of the fight.... TEMPEST Killing me is ok. BUT NOT LAG!!!!! come on!!!! the lag is worse............. FIRE SOMEBODY!!! I dont care about the loss of my ship.. its just the way it was lost................. but, GF anyways. Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters Ghost Fleet Pilot
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.06.14 08:24:00 - [85] The lag is still there, there is still something wrong. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
illuminati	Posted - 2004.06.14 09:29:00 - [86] Edited by: illuminati on 14/06/2004 10:01:13 I'll buy the explanation of interior workload. The number of lines required between n nodes is *(n(n-1))/2**. Try drawin dots on a paper and connect the dots with lines if you want to. Reguardless of speculation concerning connection speed or nature of switching, adding nodes brings more overhead and less efficiency per node. It could be something else of course but my guess is either switching is strange or some code is non-optimal. I'll second the fine and correct concept that: m is milli b is bit M is mega B is byte Feel free to combine those, but having a millibit connection isnt as cool as it may sound :) Edit: No, connection speed doesnt matter much, it lags just as much on my 12Mb/9Mb computer as it does on a modem, with the exception of marketquotes and starting game.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.06.14 09:59:00 - [87] We have a number of small issues causing some very interesting problems, that cause us not to be able to show that performance increase that was supposed to come (being worse in many cases). We are working our asses off fixing this "#$% &$%$& $%&&%$$%&, and will post a devblog about this and it's affect on patch release, since I don't really feel like adding a patch onto the current problems _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
fras	Posted - 2004.06.14 10:19:00 - [88] What I find a bit frustrating, and I'm well over it and do appreciate the effort being put into fixing this, is that a problem clearly exists being outlined here by both players and devs, yet when you lose a ship you are told it's tough luck. In the rules section this is what it says: "Ships lost during PVP combat may be replaced only in cases where a bug has been verified as the cause of the loss. Such reimbursement would only be done after an investigation and at the discretion of a GM." That's a very open statment that might aswell say GM's can do whatever they want(perhaps rightly so), but it implies that if a bug is verified then there are grounds for reimbursement. Does this thread not serve as any kind of verification? I'm not the richest player but I'm lucky in that a BS loss is reasonably easy to take. Means by which to authenticate ship losses would be a very welcome addition. I'm sure some players would quit or feel like quiting after a loss due to something that was out of their control.
Mandros Aslay	Posted - 2004.06.14 10:19:00 - [89] Edited by: Mandros Aslay on 14/06/2004 10:20:33 Thanks for the reply ....and yes dont patch with the current problems. The next patch could be glorious....thats if its not bogged down with whines about lag..... I would rather play as is now and wait ... I of course use MWD at the moment for battles so am biased...
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.06.14 10:19:00 - [90] Edited by: Scorpyn on 14/06/2004 10:25:33 Originally by: illuminati I'll second the fine and correct concept that: m is milli b is bit M is mega B is byte Feel free to combine those, but having a millibit connection isnt as cool as it may sound :) Hello Mr.Besserwisser I have to make some corrections : m is milli True, but milli is never used with computers. When m is used, we mean M. b is bit Depends... could also be byte, depending on the situation. Best thing is to write out the whole bit. M is mega Yup. 1024^2 in the computer world. B is byte No, it's a letter. (Just joking. Most frequently it is.) MB : Megabyte Mb : Mebabyte/Megabit mb : Megabyte mB : Not in use (or typo) mbit : Megabit If you add "per second", you almost always refer to bits and not bytes.

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