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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
63
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:53:00 -
[121] - Quote
VaMei wrote: Give the Supers a 3% bonus and 3 links so they can support fleets in major combat.
That would solve the buffer problem in fleet fights, give Supers a purpose again, make Command ships the best at their single purpose, and get the gang boosters on the battlefield without having them evaporate before they drop out of warp.
Wasn't there a ship for that? Oh yeah, it was called the Titan....
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
23
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:43:00 -
[122] - Quote
- Rebalance the existing fleet command ships so they have +10% shield or armour HP depending on hull, to match the Damnation - Give the T3 command subsystem a HP bonus that's not quite as good (to reflect the command bonus being higher) but enough to give them more survivability on grid |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
23
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:45:00 -
[123] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Pro-tip: You have access to offgrid boosting as well. Opps...sorry for pointing that out. If you don't want to be a booster or don't want to put it off grid since you want to be in the action....why is that a problem? Remember, you can do this too and I don't see a problem if you pull the same **** as the other guy...except its when the other guy pulls this **** because he can "meta-game" better then you by putting his booster off grid (remember, you too can catch the booster before it flies off grid...if you can't then you deserve to lose BUT you have the option to bring your own booster). Its not risk, its adapting how to win while reducing risk and EVE being EVE....nothing is fair or riskless unless its actually exploiting the game like Monkeysphere going invisiable to local This is the same argument used for pre-nerf Falcons by the way.
"You can do it too" is the worst kind of balance argument just FYI. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1637
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:47:00 -
[124] - Quote
boost kin |
Hicksimus
Slaxtopia Reverberation Project
122
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:16:00 -
[125] - Quote
This sounds like one of the final game changes that can be made to make EvE PvP more favourable for blobbing. Want to not have large fleets using it? Make the bonus decrease as size of fleet increases. But don't force the command ship on field and ruin it for the few people who have the balls/isk to try to PvP without outnumbering an enemy.
If you guys want the command ship on grid then I'm sure you will be just fine with: A charging time for jump drives No range bonus to logi ECM optimal and falloff reduced to 1/5 of current values
Things I have realized from the EvE forums: Many people beleive cost means money and only money If you use it then it needs a buff. -áIf you don't use it then it needs to be nerfed. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1468
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:21:00 -
[126] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Wasn't there a ship for that? Oh yeah, it was called the Titan....
titans do not and have never had an effectiveness bonus to ganglinks EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Kyoso Oni
Sigma-Six Symptom Inc.
2
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Posted - 2012.07.27 11:40:00 -
[127] - Quote
Industrial bonuses should remain as is (no penalty). Rest off-grid boosting should be -50% offgrid, 100% in grid.
Another option would be to restrict the number of bonuses that can be off-grid (for example 1-2).
T3 should never surpass a CS booster effect, and CSs should be remodeled to tank better, as the Damnation.
Posts regarding "don't change my playstyle" and "just because the other fleet is not as smart to have an off-grid", well, get over it. If changes come (they will, they just don't have to be the ones I mentioned) they will apply to everyone and that will be your new playstyle.
IMO it's a ship game, it has fleet battles, it's epic! If CCP can make it so it's fun and good to have a CS in the front line, I have to agree it's for the better. |
Y'nit Gidrine
Gold Horizons Industrial
12
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Posted - 2012.07.27 11:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
A lesser tank is not an issue if you have competent logi pilots.
Remember to give your logi pilots lots of love to help them grow big and strong! |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2012.07.27 12:05:00 -
[129] - Quote
As someone who uses them frequently in small gang combat, please nerf off-grid boosters. They discourage, quick fluid PvP because you have to get your boosters set up in system (off-grid) knowing the opponent will also have them, to the point where they're practically mandatory for any engagement.
I would like to engage without them, but since we're often outnumbered links are needed to just maintain parity. Also, on-grid only would be a boost to BC's as command ships (which I've always liked) because you can slot in a couple command BC's in a normal BC fleet and have them blend in. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
351
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Posted - 2012.07.27 12:30:00 -
[130] - Quote
i hope ccp do introduce on grid boosting, because i will save a plex every month on my booster alt since i wont have to use boost links to be able to fight everyone also with boost links :D
Now would ccp want less plex sales, hmmmmmmmmmmm http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
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Riknarr
Midhalla
19
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Posted - 2012.07.28 11:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
I can think of a couple more possible options:
Introduce a formula for bonused ships off grid from the command ship so that the bonus reduces to 50% e.g. 0.5+(1/(2n)) This would mean that if the command ship was off grid then boosts would be poor on the gang as it increases in size. Everything on the same grid as the command ship gets 100% bonus. (options to have different boost values and stacking penalties of course)
Other option is to create a new fleet role of command bridge ship. A special class of ship could be assigned to bridge the bonuses onto its grid at 100%, drawback being that it is identified in overview with a special icon.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
675
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Posted - 2012.07.28 11:18:00 -
[132] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:E man Industries wrote:AraniFyr wrote:It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk Agreed, how ever command ships are primary....they need mor eof a buffer when boosting to exist on grid. The Damnation is a prime example of how a CS should be build, like a motherfucking tank. Give the other CS's bonuses to their tanking as well, AND nerf off grid bonuses.
Yes, and no.
The Damnation is great for slow big fat ass blobs. It's horrible for skirmish combat. There's actually people out there playing this game who want to play without potentially crashing the server while trying to jump. You know, where individual player skill matters, where you are mobile and can roam multiple regions on a daily basis, etc.
That being said: * The offgrid boosters needs a fix because a) they make command ships useless, and b) they are making small scale gangs using them too powerful. * The simple fix would be to make sure CS gets the full effect, and if they are on-grid, and make the non-Damnations in line with it to suit blob warfare. * Meanwhile, the t3 boosters would be the option for the smaller mobile gangs, so let them keep their boost offgrid, but at a partial effect.. and they need a slight nerf to how many links they can fit as well.
This game need to cater for everyone, from the blobs to the mid-size, as well as soloers. Ultimately balance should not be based on blobs alone. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
378
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Posted - 2012.07.28 11:44:00 -
[133] - Quote
Battlecruisers have this as their role bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules.
When was the last time you fit a Warfare link module to your drake exactly?
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Sarmea Moon
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
19
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
Don't want offgrid boosting? Fine. Command ships and fleet skills were a nerf to leadership in the first place.
Now you want to nerf the nerf even harder. How about we go back to the way it was- No fleet setup, everyone in gang receives the highest bonus in the gang, no max number in gang.
Gangs now have to be smaller, gangs now have to be setup with a heirarchy, gangs only get a few boosts. Joy.
Links were added. Then T3. If you want to nerf offgrid boosting, make it so only carriers and command ships can fit them.
Of course, no one in this thread apparently has even been in a proper large mining op. It's not just the rorq that would be nerfed (and you say it could be left out). But think about all the other things that would be nerfed as well- no gang bonuses unless in a single belt- can't go out cherrypicking all the belts at the same time, so they can move to another system quickly. |
Zeomebuch Nova
Metalworks
18
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:16:00 -
[135] - Quote
Talkietoaster wrote:I could imagine something like this
- on grid: no nerf - on safe spot: little nerf - near own POS: medium nerf - near Station / Gate: considerable nerf
IMO something like this:
- on grid: 100% - safe spot close to the fight: 50% - off grid within force field or docking range: 0%-10% |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
556
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:17:00 -
[136] - Quote
AraniFyr wrote:It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk
All the advantages for almost 0 risk because a well fitted one will require you have a well skilled toon/T2 ship/mods/rigs and virtue set If they keep them out of gridd they should at least give to boosting links sign radius drawback enough so you can easily scan them and pop them.
I'm for the only reasonable option that is to forcing those to be on grid. brb |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:27:00 -
[137] - Quote
Y'nit Gidrine wrote:A lesser tank is not an issue if you have competent logi pilots.
Remember to give your logi pilots lots of love to help them grow big and strong! It does depend on the size of the blob.
The coordinated F1-ing of 1400mm artillery can be very pronounced in their effects on a ship's structural integrity. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
80
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Posted - 2012.07.28 14:15:00 -
[138] - Quote
DO NOT REMOVE OFF-GRID BONUSES. Yes, there is LITTLE risk involved.
Solution: Make Command Proccessors increase signature radius. That way if they fit 1 link they are nerfing themselves and can be unprobable. BUT if they fit 2 or 3 for 3 or 4 link T3's, then they are probable, and therefore adds element of risk.
End of story. -Buhhd |
REDNECKMINING
Nyan Cat Logistics PNG Associates
2
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Posted - 2012.07.28 14:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
If the OG bonuses are removed, the requirement for the Rorqual to be sieged in order to give out bonuses needs to be removed as well. |
Mallak Azaria
416
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Posted - 2012.07.28 14:30:00 -
[140] - Quote
REDNECKMINING wrote:If the OG bonuses are removed, the requirement for the Rorqual to be sieged in order to give out bonuses needs to be removed as well.
I think the Rorq being able to siege inside POS shields is a bit of a joke to be honest. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
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Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
179
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Posted - 2012.07.28 15:17:00 -
[141] - Quote
Listening to the alliance tournament pre-shows the new POS's will be dock able and not a bubble you sit in. So boosting from the safety of a POS will soon come to an end. But the POS will be able to be scalable so with the ability to include plenty of guns
So next year I can see a Titan jumping in killing the Rorqual and then warping off and cloaking
then some Titan Pilot using the next store buying little Crossed off Rorquals on his ship.
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:04:00 -
[142] - Quote
I can't imagine the number of lost subscriptions any on-grid booster nerf would result in.
Go ahead, whine and troll me for saying it, but it's the truth and CCP knows it.
It would also be another buff to blob warfare and a nerf to solo pvp. |
MadMuppet
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
515
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:12:00 -
[143] - Quote
AWACS don't fly in to dogfights, the enemy has to go to them, yet they have the ability to provide a huge amount of data to the field operators.
Command ships can be scanned down and hunted. I am pretty sure the other side can have them as well. However, I do not think they should be of use when inside an active POS shield.
If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Command ships can be scanned down and hunted. I am pretty sure the other side can have them as well. However, I do not think they should be of use when inside an active POS shield.
I disagree. Having a POS should give certain tactical advantages. They should serve a greater purpose than making isk through moon mining and research. Especially considering the monthly cost of fuel blocks, which isn't a massive amount but still adds up.
I don't use a POS for boosting but I don't think it should be nerfed. |
Shameless Avenger
325
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:35:00 -
[145] - Quote
Do not forget to consider implications in all kinds of gameplay. Ninjas for example... it is difficult enough to get the bear to shoot at you as it is. Imagine if you have to show up at the mission's grid with the command ships behind you. "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" ~ The Story of the Ninja |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
179
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Posted - 2012.07.28 17:33:00 -
[146] - Quote
The removal of Off grid boosting is removing " a play style" a play style that does have a counter - Scan down its But and shoot it.
The only hault to the counter is POS shields with the Brainstorm of No Shields to boost from with the new POS system, this should eliminate this barrier. On the other hand the boosting ship will be guarded by Guns if there was enough time to set up such a POS.
Removing off grid boosting period... would be dumbing down the game eliminating the possiblities of warfare, no need for scan boats, and its is just a slug fest in 1 location.
With off grid boosters a smaller fleet at least has 1 scanable target to go after with out having to face the blob at the gate if they can get free. (unless he is in a POS)
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
MadMuppet
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
515
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Posted - 2012.07.28 18:29:00 -
[147] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:MadMuppet wrote:Command ships can be scanned down and hunted. I am pretty sure the other side can have them as well. However, I do not think they should be of use when inside an active POS shield.
I disagree. Having a POS should give certain tactical advantages. They should serve a greater purpose than making isk through moon mining and research. Especially considering the monthly cost of fuel blocks, which isn't a massive amount but still adds up. I don't use a POS for boosting but I don't think it should be nerfed.
I see your point, and I agree with it somewhat, but the ability to hide a command ship in a bulletproof shell seems a lot like being able to use an AWACS while it is parked in an concrete reinforced hangar. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:00:00 -
[148] - Quote
So.. let me see if I've got this right.
Some people want to have EvE changed so that command ships have to be on grid in order to be effective, but the primary concern is that they will be shot up because they don't have enough tank. So the immediate response, from some, is to buff the CS so they have more tank.
Please explain how "fit more tank" and "yield vs. tank" do not apply here? Profit favors the prepared |
lSD Banhammer
2
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:25:00 -
[149] - Quote
Thread lurked because HTFU - lSD Banhammer |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
180
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
lurked? LOL Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
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