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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
32
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Posted - 2012.04.23 12:34:00 -
[91] - Quote
The biggest reason not to nerf off-grid boosting is that it becomes a disincentive to splitting your fleet into smaller groups. A fleet of 250 will have to stay mobbed up around their booster or lose all of their bonuses.
Off-grid boosters allow the same fleet to split up to perform different missions within the same system and although there is not yet a true incentive to do that it has been said many times that that is what CCP want to achieve. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
270
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 12:35:00 -
[92] - Quote
If your Fleet CS are being volleyed, then using something with more EHP would be sensible. Should carriers and Titans get Fleet CS-like bonuses to warfare links? Moving TItans away from a direct combat role might be sensible, but they already give gang bonuses and I'm not sure about the balance implications for carriers. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
68
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:36:00 -
[93] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:mining concerns If you are in a 'safe' area then bring the fat-boy in with you .. saves a ton of logistics as you can compress on site. If you have roamers playing tag with the always inept patrol fleets (speaking as an old miner, damn pew'ers were always late ) then you bring a CS .. costs you 10-15% bonus at most and he can double as rat controller freeing up whomever was/is doing that.
Jacob Holland wrote:The biggest reason not to nerf off-grid boosting is that it becomes a disincentive to splitting your fleet into smaller groups. A fleet of 250 will have to stay mobbed up around their booster or lose all of their bonuses.... Sure, if you absolutely want to put all your eggs in that one basket. Imagine if you brought more than one booster though, one per wing .. one per squad .. with the fleet booster tagging along to be present when the **** hits the ventilation. The reason for fleets only having the one booster is squarely on the fact that we can currently get away with having the one 5-6 link hull sitting somewhere safe, whereas we have all gotten accustomed to redundancy in all other -secondary- hull types with fleets being padded with DPS after tackle/ewar/logis is in place .. about time links were treated in a similar fashion.
Gypsio III wrote:... Should carriers and Titans get Fleet CS-like bonuses to warfare links? ... No need, it falls under "using the right tool for the job". Same as for wanting eWar (non-ECM variety) deployed in blob fights, the ships with bonuses wont survive so one sacrifices efficiency for survivability by fitting the modules to BCs/BS'/Capitals.
If the CS gets volleyed repeatedly stripping you of all bonuses, then accepting the ~15% lower bonus from a carrier/SC would be infinitely better as you actually get to enjoy the bonuses, albeit lower, for the duration of the fight .. or at least longer than a flock of Sebo'd tier3 BC takes to lock.
It is all about choice and consequence.
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Lord Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Fleet boosters belong on grid. Do whatever you have to do to balance them properly but they belong on grid.
No support for the OP here. Agreed. |
Din Tempre
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
6
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:I just remembered one of the new modules for anti blobs. The new module was to shake off any lock on yourself, and the more locks on you the better chance at disrupting all locks. Added way to shave off dps in inferno and upped survival chance if for at-least a little while longer of such ships.
Won't this likely be a mid-slot? So shield command ships will have to sacrifice tank while armor will have to sacrifice nothing? |
Addrake
Origin. Black Legion.
24
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Removing off grid boosters is a ******** idea and I'll explain why;
- You force another layer of complexity onto an already cumbersome system for fleet boosting.
- You concede yet another boost to defense in 0.0 warfare due to fighting on pos grids. (tcu's, tech moons, cyno jammers, etc)
- When you are a smaller force fighting 'the blob' there is a point when no tank whatsoever is going to save that command ship from being volleyed. So if you are, lets say a 40 man gang going up against 120 man maelstrom fleet, you might as well write off that command ship the moment you land on grid.
So lets look at why people are really pissed off about off grid links.
- People using offgrid boosters to enhance their 100mn tengu's are making people rage in lowsec.
- Small gangs using offgrid boosters to provide bonuses with what appears to be 0 risk.
The interesting thing here is you can counter offgrid links with probes. I've seen it done effectively. If it's too hard for everyone then sure ccp should look at adding an increase in sig when you have command processors fitted to your ship, which is the only decent idea I've read in this entire thread. But the problem with getting rid of them entirely is that it will become exceptionally difficult to take on massive gangs with a substantially smaller force, which is already difficult to do as is.
Oh and that anti-blob module that everyone is huff puffing about is a horrible idea. There already is a great counter to the blob, it's called stealth bombers, transversal, sig, spies calling out primaries, etc etc. But lets instead try to introduce a module that will make the game more one dimensional. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
69
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Posted - 2012.04.24 04:21:00 -
[97] - Quote
Addrake wrote: You force another layer of complexity onto an already cumbersome system for fleet boosting. Clicking "assign as booster" is cumbersome? If that is your tolerance level then it is a wonder you are playing Eve to be honest - Imagine if an FC could not only assign a booster but have a boost-list to manipulate, so whenever one booster goes offline (dead, warps, etc.) the next one down is automatically applied ..
Addrake wrote: You concede yet another boost to defense in 0.0 warfare due to fighting on pos grids. (tcu's, tech moons, cyno jammers, etc) - POS/Sov is being revamped (again), Dust is looming near and Moons are likely to be hammered at some point. Imagine if something like a cyno-jammer was attached to a planetary orbital structure (think POCO) and vulnerable from both space and surface, no one is advocating a straight switch to on-grid as it would likely break more than is healthy. Or simpler still .. what if links were unable to activate while inside a forcefield?
Addrake wrote: When you are a smaller force fighting 'the blob' there is a point when no tank whatsoever is going to save that command ship from being volleyed. So if you are, lets say a 40 man gang going up against 120 man maelstrom fleet, you might as well write off that command ship the moment you land on grid.[/list] So in that super extreme scenario you believe the bonuses from said links would be able to save the day? And you do not see a problem with what is essentially an invulnerable ship projecting that kind of power? .. foot meet shotgun.
Addrake wrote:The interesting thing here is you can counter offgrid links with probes. I've seen it done effectively ... So being able to increase the power of up to 250 people by 50%+ from anywhere in a system is perfectly fine because a max skilled, implanted and faction fitted covert can catch them provided they are stationary and AFK/dual-boxed? Doesn't matter if you give them a sig size of a Titan, you are still left with a mechanic that provides almost unlimited benefit without being in direct danger.
PS: Boosted Tengu's are yesteryears news, now its boosted AF's .. just sayin'
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Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
472
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Posted - 2012.04.24 04:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Sure if you buff command ships. I have more space likes than you.-á |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
321
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 07:21:00 -
[99] - Quote
I disagree 100% with 'don't nerf my booster-alt' OP
Off-grid booster-alts have become both mandatory and a choice with no consequence. The double whammy of fail. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
568
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 09:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
nerf them HARD
and I have maxed leadership skills, With the new target breaker module these ships will have lasting power.
Bonuses should be based on range with the closer you are to the command ship the better the bonuses.
edit: they need to rewrite the system, no more fleet boosters. Just pure simple, if on grid or within 250km of command ship, give 10% bonus to shields. And if there is more than one command ship the one with better skills get his effect has final say.
I want to say something, I have 13,000 posts on these forums. 7 years as an eve online player, and I have have never seen a dumber statement in my time here on the forums.
Quote:also: Nerfing off-grid boosting will only buff blobs.
slow clap |
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
554
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Allrigth, throwing in my two cents on this matter, after reading most but not all of the posts to thei thread are about Combat activities, but to be honest, not all aspects in Eve are just combat focused, please remember about the industrials / miners which enjoy the bonus given from a Off grid Rorqual or Ecellent skilled Orca pilot beeing on Safe spot or under POS FF, Remove the complete Off grid Boost will hurt them such massively Miners will get another knife in their back brougth to them by CCP and favorited by the whiney PvPlers not beeing able to find a solution for enemy boosters.
Most of you PvPlers brougth very valid points but selfish and egoistic like most of yours are forget there are other aspects jobs wihtin Eve also profiting from this Off grid bonus......So please....Stop whinning find another solution then removing Off grid Boosts PERIOD.
Sure was worth digging up a ~25day old post for this? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Khumar Taarr-Sett
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:45:00 -
[102] - Quote
Just a couple of questions here.
Would having an on grid requirement increase the load on the server at all?
What would you guys think about a Counter Warfare link module? Could be system wide link dampening and/or revealing any active warfare (not foreman) linking ships as a warp to point for fleet members. Yeah it would be tricky to implement but could be fun. Maybe these modules could keep some CS's off grid while allowing a counter and perhaps it would lead to new tactics. |
Elisha Starkiller
Viziam Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2012.04.24 10:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Death to no risk off grid boosters!!!!!
really they are spoiling small gang pvp, if you want the boost they should be on grid to take effect! make command ships worth it again!
me out! |
Aedron
Aedron Holding.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Command ships should give better bonuses than the do it all T3s anyway, and yes command linking ships should be on grid with their fleet.
This. I'd like to see the numbers for nerfing the boost-bonus in a T3. A command ship is built for that and has that purpose, thus should be giving the best boost possible in-game if fit right, and not the Tengu (taking the Shield example of tengu/35% vs. Vulture/31%).
I for one will be looking forward to the nerf. I'm not in favor of removing the OGB ability, but will take the T3 nerf. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
61
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Drew Solaert wrote:How is an a pro 1v1 pvper going to work if you can't have your off grid booster! Shock Horror!
Don't forget your covops alt to scout, and falcon alt in case your "solo" pvp starts to go all hairy like :P
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
562
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:58:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Drew Solaert wrote:How is an a pro 1v1 pvper going to work if you can't have your off grid booster! Shock Horror! Don't forget your covops alt to scout, and falcon alt in case your "solo" pvp starts to go all hairy like :P
It's just the insurance vs the other '1' guy who has a cyno, titanbridge and hundreds-of-alliancemates online. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
128
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:AraniFyr wrote:It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk Agreed, how ever command ships are primary....they need mor eof a buffer when boosting to exist on grid.
What if Supers were given the bonus to gang links too?
Give Command ships the 5% bonus, so they have a purpose in small to medium fights. Give T3s the 3% bonus so they can support black-ops teams, and be the Swiss Army knife, with out rendering Command ships obsolete in conventional fights. Give the Supers a 3% bonus and 3 links so they can support fleets in major combat.
That would solve the buffer problem in fleet fights, give Supers a purpose again, make Command ships the best at their single purpose, and get the gang boosters on the battlefield without having them evaporate before they drop out of warp. |
Barakkus
1526
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Posted - 2012.04.24 14:29:00 -
[108] - Quote
Make them be on grid, half the people I know won't pvp anymore without an OG booster, it's lame. http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Holy One
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
192
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Posted - 2012.04.24 18:05:00 -
[109] - Quote
AraniFyr wrote:It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
5
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Posted - 2012.04.24 19:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
Neddy Fox wrote:A fleet command ship belongs in the frontline.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
5
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Posted - 2012.04.24 19:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Allrigth, throwing in my two cents on this matter, after reading most but not all of the posts to thei thread are about Combat activities, but to be honest, not all aspects in Eve are just combat focused, please remember about the industrials / miners which enjoy the bonus given from a Off grid Rorqual or Ecellent skilled Orca pilot beeing on Safe spot or under POS FF, Remove the complete Off grid Boost will hurt them such massively Miners will get another knife in their back brougth to them by CCP and favorited by the whiney PvPlers not beeing able to find a solution for enemy boosters.
Most of you PvPlers brougth very valid points but selfish and egoistic like most of yours are forget there are other aspects jobs wihtin Eve also profiting from this Off grid bonus......So please....Stop whinning find another solution then removing Off grid Boosts PERIOD.
If you're not willing to risk or protect your boosting orca in your belt, you should't be in that belt in the first place.
No support for offgrid boosting. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
593
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Posted - 2012.04.24 19:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
Pro-tip: You have access to offgrid boosting as well.
Opps...sorry for pointing that out. If you don't want to be a booster or don't want to put it off grid since you want to be in the action....why is that a problem? Remember, you can do this too and I don't see a problem if you pull the same **** as the other guy...except its when the other guy pulls this **** because he can "meta-game" better then you by putting his booster off grid (remember, you too can catch the booster before it flies off grid...if you can't then you deserve to lose BUT you have the option to bring your own booster). Its not risk, its adapting how to win while reducing risk and EVE being EVE....nothing is fair or riskless unless its actually exploiting the game like Monkeysphere going invisiable to local |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1552
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 19:38:00 -
[113] - Quote
Can't wait for offgrid boosting to be nerfed to oblivion. There will be an ocean of tears that day! EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1289
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 20:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
I'm inclined to keep off grid as is.
What I would recommend, though, is that if inside a POS shield , the modules don't work.
This keeps a balance between aggressor and defender in that both can scan and destroy the others booster ships. This goes for Rorqs as well. I see no reason to have to take out a POS just to kill a booster. Way to unbalanced.
Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Crazyy Ivann
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.01 11:33:00 -
[115] - Quote
So the people who currently utilize the tactic with offgrid booster cries because a lot of their advantage will go down the drain when you suddenly will have to drastically change your semi-afk tengu alt tactic, to a very much active role on the battlefield for effective bonuses.
In theory this is not a bad thing, we will probably see tengu pilots being sold on the char bazaar for half of current prices.
But also the command-ship pilots that usually are on grid wants more because they think they have too little EHP on their ships afraid of alpha and want MORE ehp, which will be just as bad, since a ship with stupid high EHP will never be primaried (until the fight is won by other means) so command-ships will just be a necessary evil in all fleets, never killing stuff, never getting killed.
It's all just a game of who gets the most advantage at any given point, it's hard to tell what is right and what is wrong.
But i do agree something should be done, but i don't think the solution is as easy as some people seem to think. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp Relativity Alliance
127
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Posted - 2012.07.27 05:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Fleet boosters belong on grid. Do whatever you have to do to balance them properly but they belong on grid.
No support for the OP here.
you sound as butt hurt as everyone else wanting them nerfed when you invade a system and they got someone boosting their fleet. you know what this is called right? Home ground advantage. yeah you too can bring one in and hide in system somewhere.
You do realize that this will affect not just command ship pilots but also orca/Rorq pilots.
This is just a stupid idea to force booster pilots on grid. not my fault if you do not have a booster pilot in your fleet helping.
I do agree on one thing. the T3 Strat Cruisers, yes their boosting power needs to be nerfed. It shouldnever have exceeded the command ship bonuses as this is a very specialized path of training.
If CCP does nerf the command ships to where they need to be on grid i will not bother re upping that accounts subscription |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1464
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:46:00 -
[117] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Fleet boosters belong on grid. Do whatever you have to do to balance them properly but they belong on grid.
No support for the OP here. you sound as butt hurt as everyone else wanting them nerfed when you invade a system and they got someone boosting their fleet. you know what this is called right? Home ground advantage. yeah you too can bring one in and hide in system somewhere. You do realize that this will affect not just command ship pilots but also orca/Rorq pilots. This is just a stupid idea to force booster pilots on grid. not my fault if you do not have a booster pilot in your fleet helping. I do agree on one thing. the T3 Strat Cruisers, yes their boosting power needs to be nerfed. It shouldnever have exceeded the command ship bonuses as this is a very specialized path of training. If CCP does nerf the command ships to where they need to be on grid i will not bother re upping that accounts subscription
wow i actually agree with you a rogue goon |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1043
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 07:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
NERF THEM
everyone has maxxed out boster skills by now anyways. so both sides have all boosters running at full in every fright off grid.
This makes combat slate and boring. If everyone gets 10% more shields and 10% more armor, does either side really have an advantage? I mean whats the point if both sides get an unkillable boost from off grid? might as well not even have them in the game if that's the case.
Bring them into combat zone gives them risk vs reward. meaning the side that's willing to risk more wins.
the people that don't want them nerfed are the whiners, they don't want to have to bring command ships, they don't want to have to risk anything.
oh and if the goal of the whiners in here is you want a home field advantage then they can introduce system wide command modules for POS. maybe weaker than normal command ships, but just as safe as off grid boosting. But killable. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1043
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 07:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Allrigth, throwing in my two cents on this matter, after reading most but not all of the posts to thei thread are about Combat activities, but to be honest, not all aspects in Eve are just combat focused, please remember about the industrials / miners which enjoy the bonus given from a Off grid Rorqual or Ecellent skilled Orca pilot beeing on Safe spot or under POS FF, Remove the complete Off grid Boost will hurt them such massively Miners will get another knife in their back brougth to them by CCP and favorited by the whiney PvPlers not beeing able to find a solution for enemy boosters.
Most of you PvPlers brougth very valid points but selfish and egoistic like most of yours are forget there are other aspects jobs wihtin Eve also profiting from this Off grid bonus......So please....Stop whinning find another solution then removing Off grid Boosts PERIOD.
They could just make those non pvp ships ignore the on grid rule, come on, think outside the box http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
63
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 07:47:00 -
[120] - Quote
Having boosters not being on grid is akin to cheating. The command ships have a decent enough tank to withstand some punishment, and T3 boosters with 5 links should die fast and in a fire.
I vote for on grid or no boost. |
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