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baltec1
Bat Country
1726
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:I can't imagine the number of lost subscriptions any on-grid booster nerf would result in.
Im going to go with none. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
440
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 19:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:I can't imagine the number of lost subscriptions any on-grid booster nerf would result in.
Go ahead, whine and troll me for saying it, but it's the truth and CCP knows it.
It would also be another buff to blob warfare and a nerf to solo pvp.
The truth? Well CCP can carry on making the same mistake Mythic did with Buffbots in DAoC until they finally clued in they were gaining buffbot accounts at the expense of real players bailing on lame gameplay.
..and if running 2 or 3 accounts (Combat main, Booster, Falcon) is "solo" PvP, then I say nerf it! If that's solo, it wasn't worth keeping to begin with.
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
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Posted - 2012.07.28 21:08:00 -
[153] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:lulz
Whiners whine when they can apply the same tactics against their enemy.
They chose to not put a command ship off grid, they lose, so its the fault of the other guy.
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
bad logic is bad
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2012.07.28 22:22:00 -
[154] - Quote
YUMAD BRO wrote:I have a great Idea....
How about you fking train it up on a char like everyone else and do it to??
you Fkn Downy..
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1047
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 23:22:00 -
[155] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:i hope ccp do introduce on grid boosting, because i will save a plex every month on my booster alt since i wont have to use boost links to be able to fight everyone also with boost links :D
Now would ccp want less plex sales, hmmmmmmmmmmm So your saying that, if the enemy fleet had 12 on grid boosters, you wouldn't bring yours? Yeah ok good luck with, have fun losing. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
24
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Posted - 2012.07.28 23:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
Being a long-term command ship pilot for pvp alliance i can say: removing off-grid boosting abilities would require re-balancing the command ships so they at least can match the tanking ability of damnation, otherwise they would be pretty much useless in anything but small fights. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1047
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Posted - 2012.07.28 23:28:00 -
[157] - Quote
REDNECKMINING wrote:If the OG bonuses are removed, the requirement for the Rorqual to be sieged in order to give out bonuses needs to be removed as well.
Just introduce off grid boosters. The catch being to.boost off grid, you have to enter a Seige type mode. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
442
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:23:00 -
[158] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: Just introduce off grid boosters. The catch being to.boost off grid, you have to enter a Seige type mode.
That would be a reasonable alternative to on-grid only boosting. I would add that near unprobability should also go. You shouldn't need a dedicated probing alt with billions in implants to scan a boosting T3.
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Togg Bott
One Clone Gang
33
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:27:00 -
[159] - Quote
i am a CS pilot. i have never had a problem with putting my ship at risk. but i will say that since i fly the sleipnir, it would be nice to have a slightly better tank. maybe not as massive as the Damnation but enough that when combined with the sleipnirs speed i have atleast the survivability of the Damnation.
side note, i was really disappointed to find that all the time i spent skilling up for the CS was basicly tossed out the window when the T3 came along and made my ship obsolete. a Jack-Of-All-Trades should never be a good as a specificly tuned ship. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1048
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 02:44:00 -
[160] - Quote
Xorv wrote:MotherMoon wrote: Just introduce off grid boosters. The catch being to.boost off grid, you have to enter a Seige type mode.
That would be a reasonable alternative to on-grid only boosting. I would add that near unprobability should also go. You shouldn't need a dedicated probing alt with billions in implants to scan a boosting T3.
the nice part of having to go into seige mode is you might want to think about having a small defence fleet to protect the booster fleet. If the booster fleet couldn't move.
Do you think maybe t3 should be on grid only, on top of getting slightly nerfed bonuses since command ships should be better at boosting? I'm not quite sure where to go with it, but some kind of off grid boosting ship..... and a stronger on grid boost ships. maybe let them stack? one on grid and one off grid stacking together? thus giving an advantage to the side who brings more to risk? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
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Y'nit Gidrine
Gold Horizons Industrial
13
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Posted - 2012.07.29 15:07:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Y'nit Gidrine wrote:A lesser tank is not an issue if you have competent logi pilots.
Remember to give your logi pilots lots of love to help them grow big and strong! It does depend on the size of the blob. The coordinated F1-ing of 1400mm artillery can be very pronounced in their effects on a ship's structural integrity.
There are higher hp alternatives to command ships once fleet sizes have attained critical mass. People don't like risking ships, though.
Also, don't sit still at the enemy's optimal range. |
Freezehunter
241
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 15:56:00 -
[162] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:I can't imagine the number of lost subscriptions any on-grid booster nerf would result in.
Go ahead, whine and troll me for saying it, but it's the truth and CCP knows it.
It would also be another buff to blob warfare and a nerf to solo pvp.
It's not solo if you have alts/friends boosting you with huge bonuses safely off grid, stop talking out of your anus.
And no, no one but fail PVPers would quit because of that, and that is a good thing. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Freezehunter
241
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Posted - 2012.07.29 15:58:00 -
[163] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Do not forget to consider implications in all kinds of gameplay. Ninjas for example... it is difficult enough to get the bear to shoot at you as it is. Imagine if you have to show up at the mission's grid with the command ships behind you.
Here's a thought: do real PVP instead of shooting mission runners like a ***. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.07.29 16:30:00 -
[164] - Quote
Nerfing off-grid boosters will be yet another blow to small-gang pvp and varied gameplay. Think about it, if people are at risk of losing their boosting ships, they won't bring them at all, meaning that warfare links will become just yet another useless novelty mod in the market window. Not to mention all the unsubbed booster accounts.
If anything, the lesson we should be taking from off-grid boosters is that if EVE pvp is going to be saved from homogeneous mediocrity, more support roles should be moved off-grid or to a POS. Maybe then some people will actually start making use of the wide range of support ships EVE already includes, like logistics and Falcons, instead of just undocking in buffer battleships. GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
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Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
107
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Posted - 2012.07.29 16:30:00 -
[165] - Quote
There is no reason to nerf offgrid ganglinks. It's already very impractical (and dangerous) to use for anything but solo; you're without links while the t3 is creating its safespot.
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:How about a sig explosion when using boosters. Easier to scan down when you are putting out such massive electronic signals. Why do you want to nerf the on-grid Damnation into the ground? |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
208
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Posted - 2012.07.29 16:50:00 -
[166] - Quote
Katalci wrote:There is no reason to nerf offgrid ganglinks. It's already very impractical (and dangerous) to use for anything but solo; you're without links while the t3 is creating its safespot. Offgrid ganglinks greatly improve local tank, letting solo players engage greater odds than before -- nerfing offgrid nerfs solo. Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:How about a sig explosion when using boosters. Easier to scan down when you are putting out such massive electronic signals. Why do you want to nerf the on-grid Damnation into the ground?
Lol, since when is using "offgrid boosters" playing solo?
As someone with a command ship toon I say nerf the offgrid....Then I don't have to fly two ships in combat...
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
672
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 19:29:00 -
[167] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:It should be on-grid only, but I agree this could lead to command ships being primaried. Therefore, they should have an increase of, say, 25% in the tank of command ships while engaging the boosters as well as the tank given by the boosters. While in small fights this could lead to having one tough nut to crack, in big fights it means that the 400+ alpha battleships don't just tear it to pieces in two volleys and so the logis have a little more time to react.
In the case of Gallente command ships, they just need a massive revamp.
Command ships already are some of the toughest cookies in the game. Not to mention that if they are going to be forced to be on-grid, large fleets will likely start building in some redundancy anyway.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Mariner6
EVE University Ivy League
87
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 21:20:00 -
[168] - Quote
I've never really understood the complaining about this on grid/off grid stuff. The game is fairly well balanced in this regard with only a few exceptions.
Bottom line, what's is the complaint? That you come into a system and there is someone who is faster, has longer point, and stronger shield/armor than you? Well, simple. You bring a couple of Corps mates and spend the damn time and bring your own boosts. Two fleets that are boosting the same stuff in the same system have ZERO advantage over the other. The one current advantage one side may have over the other is that one might be in a POS. Ok, so i suppose CCP could make it that your not able to activate in a POS and its absolutely balanced.
If your unwilling to dedicate the time, corps mates, etc then make some friends. Solo be damned. If you want a truely fair 1v1 then arrange the fight and fleet up together to ensure no boosts are pushed. But at the end of the day the most fair way to make boosts works is to bring your own and it works the same way for everyone.
On grid boosting requirement is about the dumbest idea out there. Why? 1) all advantage lies with the defense as they can have their boosters well positioned on the field. 2) WTF is on grid anyway? Its so easy to jack with the grid, you just have to do some Fu and can easily kite a force off grid from its booster. 3) There is often action on more than one point of a system and if your defending multiple spots being forced to only one spot with current mechanics of fleet formation would limit options.
I think all the whining about this is people who just don't want to spend the time training leadership skills. I fleet boost and FC all the time from a T1 BC. Most the time I am on grid and target painting while I call primary and run two command links at the same time. I don't use an alt to do it. Look at my loss mails and you'll see them. So don't think I'm defending a tactic that I personally use. But the most balanced and fair way is very simple: Bring your own, its system wide, you figure out how to make it work. What I would change?
1. Sure can't activate in a POS just to shut up whiners. Again, I don't really think this is neccessary because again you can bring your own boosts and everything is equal in system. 2. Command ships need the +5 instead of the T3's and while some are beefy tank, some really suck. Ie, the Astarte and EOS blow. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
208
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 21:57:00 -
[169] - Quote
Mariner6 wrote:I've never really understood the complaining about this on grid/off grid stuff. The game is fairly well balanced in this regard with only a few exceptions.
Bottom line, what's is the complaint? That you come into a system and there is someone who is faster, has longer point, and stronger shield/armor than you? Well, simple. You bring a couple of Corps mates and spend the damn time and bring your own boosts. Two fleets that are boosting the same stuff in the same system have ZERO advantage over the other. The one current advantage one side may have over the other is that one might be in a POS. Ok, so i suppose CCP could make it that your not able to activate in a POS and its absolutely balanced.
If your unwilling to dedicate the time, corps mates, etc then make some friends. Solo be damned. If you want a truely fair 1v1 then arrange the fight and fleet up together to ensure no boosts are pushed. But at the end of the day the most fair way to make boosts works is to bring your own and it works the same way for everyone.
On grid boosting requirement is about the dumbest idea out there. Why? 1) all advantage lies with the defense as they can have their boosters well positioned on the field. 2) WTF is on grid anyway? Its so easy to jack with the grid, you just have to do some Fu and can easily kite a force off grid from its booster. 3) There is often action on more than one point of a system and if your defending multiple spots being forced to only one spot with current mechanics of fleet formation would limit options.
I think all the whining about this is people who just don't want to spend the time training leadership skills. I fleet boost and FC all the time from a T1 BC. Most the time I am on grid and target painting while I call primary and run two command links at the same time. I don't use an alt to do it. Look at my loss mails and you'll see them. So don't think I'm defending a tactic that I personally use. But the most balanced and fair way is very simple: Bring your own, its system wide, you figure out how to make it work. What I would change?
1. Sure can't activate in a POS just to shut up whiners. Again, I don't really think this is neccessary because again you can bring your own boosts and everything is equal in system. 2. Command ships need the +5 instead of the T3's and while some are beefy tank, some really suck. Ie, the Astarte and EOS blow.
Your argument makes no sense.....if everything is equal, then why wouldn't it be better for the ships to be on the field...equally?
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 04:20:00 -
[170] - Quote
on grid boosters remind me of the old way of warfare with muskets. wihere everyone formed up in lines fired and then walk 2 paces and fire again.
then when the British had to fight Americans they they had to deal with Morons who would use cover and keep shooting their officers.
when removing the Off grid boosters all together it sounds like dumbing down the game to chivarly standards of the old British Musketiers
. With the POS Fix coming out in the future and the POS shields disappearing. The Boosting from a POS game breaking feature will be removed.
Many many more rorquals will end up dieing for it. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
673
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:45:00 -
[171] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:on grid boosters remind me of the old way of warfare with muskets. wihere everyone formed up in lines fired and then walk 2 paces and fire again.
then when the British had to fight Americans they they had to deal with Morons who would use cover and keep shooting their officers.
when removing the Off grid boosters all together it sounds like dumbing down the game to chivarly standards of the old British Musketiers
. With the POS Fix coming out in the future and the POS shields disappearing. The Boosting from a POS game breaking feature will be removed.
Many many more rorquals will end up dieing for it.
It's the off-grid boosters that are the part dumbing down the game. It takes zero skill to maintain them and are a mandatory 'choice' for any fleet.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Lyskal Oskold
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
745
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:51:00 -
[172] - Quote
Off-grid boosts are lame, lame like blobbing. They make carefree skirmish warfare lame too.
If you want bonuses for an entire fleet or to make insane roaming frigates, risk it by taking the booster too. Cry harder. Nerf it IMO. Pirates are red, buddies are blue, if you're unlucky enough to be orange, I'll f*cking kill you.I wonder if all the pickles in the forums are tax exempt? |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:07:00 -
[173] - Quote
For me what crystallises the debate is when someone says "it's not difficult you can do it yourself". That, to me, indicates that something is at the very least imbalanced. If you're fighting 1v1 and the other guy can do everything 30% better, but you can't see why and can't remove this advantage - then something is wrong imo. |
Molokhe
Little Giant Killers Illuminati.
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 16:26:00 -
[174] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:So.. let me see if I've got this right.
Some people want to have EvE changed so that command ships have to be on grid in order to be effective, but the primary concern is that they will be shot up because they don't have enough tank. So the immediate response, from some, is to buff the CS so they have more tank.
Please explain how "fit more tank" and "yield vs. tank" do not apply here?
You could add "risk vs. reward" as well.
The thing that confuses me is the comments saying this would increase blobs. Wouldn't it be a case of less semi-afk Command Ship alts because if you want the bonuses, you'd have to switch some of your active pilots in your fleet to Command Ships? So the number of actual active ships wouldn't go up, unless the current situation is that most of the Command Ships aren't flown by alts of people in the main fleet?
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Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis Cascade Imminent
255
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:03:00 -
[175] - Quote
Been out of this thread a bit, breezed over, so will cover a few points.
1. Small gang end of boosts - This is a falsitiy. Much like any other small gang warfare, you bring ships to match your fleet. The Commships can be fit to meet in with small gang. If you are worried about the cost, then you do what I did for years. T1 battlecruisers with a ganglink.
2. Alpha striked commships - Very valid. I think one major benefit would be if commships were also able to fit the lock breaker, or a proper antiblob mechanic. My thought was always a secondary "Ewar" effect that is caused by damage. As more damage is ensued, this value increases and damage falls off. Fluff would fit easily simply because of the energy/shrapnel/etc makes it harder to hit a ship. Related to sig size and damage mod. Topic for another thread though.
3. Alphastrike commships pt 2 - Need a bs sized booster possibly. Stronger than a commship and costs more, but maybe only two links or a slightly lesser bonus, dunno. Also people mentioned ganglink carriers, I have fits for those, they work nice within a capital fleet. |
Garreth Vlox
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
26
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:03:00 -
[176] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:At fan fest some dev mention a preference to have command ship command bonus requiring ships to be on grid.
My question are: With this not remove the Planet Hugging/Safe Spot hiding/POS staging Command ship or t3 cruiser which may have lesser of a tank? Will this not remove the role of the Combat Scanner Role in mega fleet fight that is to find out the location of these Ships? Will not change the Role of Command Bonus for Mining. Placing the Rorqual at the belt in Industrial mode? There for removing the need for a hauler at a belt. Due to the selection of ore coming out of the belts, the Rorqual has a hard time compressing ore unless it is at a POS with access to a corp hanger.
I am concerned about forcing a certain type play style over another.
May I recommend a compromise: Tech I Command modules can be off grid but Tech II Command Modules provide their Bonuses while on grid.
Forcing most command ships to be on grid does remove them from the game, because they get primaried and if fit to boost they die, FAST.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
26
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:11:00 -
[177] - Quote
Who primaries a Damnation first in any fight?
(admittedly not every command ships is a Damnation but I see no reason why the bonuses for the other fleet command ships can't be reworked to be similar) |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:26:00 -
[178] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Mariner6 wrote:I've never really understood the complaining about this on grid/off grid stuff. The game is fairly well balanced in this regard with only a few exceptions.
Bottom line, what's is the complaint? That you come into a system and there is someone who is faster, has longer point, and stronger shield/armor than you? Well, simple. You bring a couple of Corps mates and spend the damn time and bring your own boosts. Two fleets that are boosting the same stuff in the same system have ZERO advantage over the other. The one current advantage one side may have over the other is that one might be in a POS. Ok, so i suppose CCP could make it that your not able to activate in a POS and its absolutely balanced.
If your unwilling to dedicate the time, corps mates, etc then make some friends. Solo be damned. If you want a truely fair 1v1 then arrange the fight and fleet up together to ensure no boosts are pushed. But at the end of the day the most fair way to make boosts works is to bring your own and it works the same way for everyone.
On grid boosting requirement is about the dumbest idea out there. Why? 1) all advantage lies with the defense as they can have their boosters well positioned on the field. 2) WTF is on grid anyway? Its so easy to jack with the grid, you just have to do some Fu and can easily kite a force off grid from its booster. 3) There is often action on more than one point of a system and if your defending multiple spots being forced to only one spot with current mechanics of fleet formation would limit options.
I think all the whining about this is people who just don't want to spend the time training leadership skills. I fleet boost and FC all the time from a T1 BC. Most the time I am on grid and target painting while I call primary and run two command links at the same time. I don't use an alt to do it. Look at my loss mails and you'll see them. So don't think I'm defending a tactic that I personally use. But the most balanced and fair way is very simple: Bring your own, its system wide, you figure out how to make it work. What I would change?
1. Sure can't activate in a POS just to shut up whiners. Again, I don't really think this is neccessary because again you can bring your own boosts and everything is equal in system. 2. Command ships need the +5 instead of the T3's and while some are beefy tank, some really suck. Ie, the Astarte and EOS blow. Your argument makes no sense.....if everything is equal, then why wouldn't it be better for the ships to be on the field...equally?
If it's all equal, why have any boosting ?
Remove boosting entirely. |
ugh zug
24
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Posted - 2012.07.30 21:23:00 -
[179] - Quote
AraniFyr wrote:It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk
I agree.
Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
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