Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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FLAME AWAY! I take pride that this post will **** off many and cause them to waste more collective man hours responding to this than the 5 minutes it took me to write this

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Originally by: soldieroffortune 258

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"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"

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Never pay ransom! Fight to the bitter end!

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Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Originally by: Cyphah

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Yeah, two can play at grammar ****. I think you might've forgotten the rules though eh kupo?

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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ROFLMAO

Nobody reads what I wrote. I did not lump pirates into a category. I simply said, do not pay ransom and offered tips regarding this.

Please! For the love of whatever you hold dear, if you're going to insult my writing ability, use proper grammar. Complete sentences, capitalization and punctuation go a long way in making you sound more credible than a keyboard mashing chimpanzee.

Grammar tanking FTW!

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Nobody reads what I wrote.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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1) There are too many variables. If they have you scrambled and webbed and demand ransom. Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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2) Your ransom directly funds pirate activity, don't pay and watch em squirm with just whatever mods you drop, if any.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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3) Never, ever, smack talk, or whine in local, it fuels their rather low self esteem in RL. They are fond of mentioning that carebear tears fuel their POS (read self esteem). Nothing will be more confusing and irritating than a silent victim. Note they will typically open up a private chat for ransom. Your response should be 2 words: "fug off." Nothing more.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Ransoms are a pain in the ass just blow the freaks up and leave it up to the pirate gods what loot drops.

SKUNK

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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1) Set the pirate and his corp to red. Next time you know to avoid them like the plague. See red minus in local = time to leave.

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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You can still steal their st

Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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Although it's comforting to note that the majority of pirates will be remaining single for the foreseeable future.

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Originally by: ponieus

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Real Pirates always honor their ransoms.


Do not lump in real pirates with the wanna be's out there.

Thats like saying all 0.0 alliances are crap like the NC.. Kinda dont make sense now does it.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Show me a nice pirate then? One that goes, "Oh, I caught you, I will let you go peacefully if you send me some ISK for my hard work in catching you." As opposed to one that goes, "100M" in chat and leaves it at that while they take your ship into structure. Doesn't quite set the picture that you will make it out anyways.

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Anyway Pirates are actually very nice people (when were not shooting at you of course =), its the carebears you have to watch out for. Usually Pirates/PVP'ers in general are people who come home from work and wanna blow up some pixel spaceships to let off some steam.

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Originally by: Kahega Amielden

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Quote:

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Anyway Pirates are actually very nice people (when were not shooting at you of course =), its the carebears you have to watch out for. Usually Pirates/PVP'ers in general are people who come home from work and wanna blow up some pixel spaceships to let off some steam.

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Scarily enough this is actually true in my experience. So-called "Carebears" (mainly hisec missioners) are, on the whole, the most angry, spiteful group of EVE players I've ever played. On the contrary, the pirates tend to be pretty calm, collected and nice even while blowing up your internets spaceships.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The only flaw in this equation is the 2 minute countdown to self-destruct.

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Originally by: DEATHsyphon

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IDLE EMPIRE Honors Ransoms And If you pay or not we dont care more points for us on the KB to win some isk from the allaince.

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Originally by: ceyriot

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Awwwww, which pirates blew up your failboat?

Learn from your mistakes...not FLAMEPIRATESONFORUM***GOTRY

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Originally by: H Lecter

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The OP is a good example for the kind of mentally imbalanced carebears who do not enjoy this game but rather see it as work. I almost wonder if he isn't selling ISK himself as this game money obviously has a big rl value for him...

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Originally by: timov

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=> what is "OP"? case u mean me - u fail in 5 points here

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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You obviously did not read the OP.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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1) There are too many variables. If they have you scrambled and webbed and demand ransom. Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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1) Set the pirate and his corp to red. Next time you know to avoid them like the plague. See red minus in local = time to leave.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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2) Fly insured T1 ships. Let them blow you up. They get nothing. You get insurance payout!

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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3) Jump clones FTW!
4) On board ship scanner FTW!

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Stiffle the flow of big isk to the pirate "economy" which will consist of rats and 'roids only.

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Originally by: timov

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just one important: learn to enjoy a fight. learn that it doesnt really matter to win or loose. learn to make ur own desicions ;)

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/09/2008 03:00:29

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The only flaw in this equation is the 2 minute countdown to self-destruct.

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It wasn't always there - at one point, you could self destruct at will and they changed that, so you cannot deny the spoils of war (or piracy) when you see a fight isn't going your way.

Basically, you already screwed up by getting caught in the first place. You don't get the 'deny all loot' button, and you shouldn't, either.

By the way, self-destruct getting you insurance and letting your pod live must be broken by your account, too ;)

Furthermore, you're just dead wrong about self-destruct. Try scuttling a ship. It takes a while. There's no 'insta-boom' mechanism.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Never pay ransom! Fight to the bitter end!

1) There are too many variables. If they have you scrambled and webbed and demand ransom. Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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2) Your ransom directly funds pirate activity, don't pay and watch em squirm with just whatever mods you drop, if any.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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3) Never, ever, smack talk, or whine in local, it fuels their rather low self esteem in RL. They are fond of mentioning that carebear tears fuel their POS (read self esteem). Nothing will be more confusing and irritating than a silent victim. Note they will typically open up a private chat for ransom. Your response should be 2 words: "fug off." Nothing more.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Some tips for everyone!

1) Set the pirate and his corp to red. Next time you know to avoid them like the plague. See red minus in local = time to leave.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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2) Fly insured T1 ships. Let them blow you up. They get nothing. You get insurance payout!

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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So in short: NEVER PAY RANSOM! Stiffle the flow of big isk to the pirate "economy" which will consist of rats and 'roids only. And I'm not just talking about asteroids... the 'roids they will get from sitting around in local for hours waiting for a victim once more people become more educated about dealing with pirates. By not paying ransom you can rest assure your dignity is still intact, and they got nothing from you save a few random mods from your ship.

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Originally by: Cyphah

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So... grammar tanking eh?

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Originally by: Soporo

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TBH I might let a younger pirate ransom me, but most of you old farts can kma.
Cept VETO. I'd let them ransom me just for the coolness factor.

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Originally by: Artemis Rose

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As being stated many times in this thread, the majority of pirates will honor ransoms. They can kill just fine without having to dishonor ransoms to pile up kill mails/loot.

It may be really shocking, but just because they shot at you for being in range, doesn't make them griefers, low self-esteem bullies or whatever assumption you want to make against them.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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It is about the right to say "no" to the oppressor.

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THE OPPRESSOR

Originally by: My'kel An'jelo

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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It is about the right to say "no" to the oppressor.

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This. Congratulations for hitting the nail on the head.

Originally by: My'kel An'jelo

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THE OPPRESSOR

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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to violently, instantaneously and without warning beforehand destroy the space frame and its contents and render it unsalvageable.

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Originally by: Transval

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Quick question...

Is it the case that self destruct is announced in local when activated?

If so, would it make any significant difference to either party involved if this feature was removed? What would it mean to either party?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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We are discussing charges already in place, activated by a simple procedure and set off at will. For a space faring species this should not be an insurmountable challenge.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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My daddy told me to lock this thread.

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Originally by: Nuts Nougat

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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We are discussing charges already in place, activated by a simple procedure and set off at will. For a space faring species this should not be an insurmountable challenge.

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Does this also mean every time I shoot at your ship, I have a chance to hit one of your self destruct charges, blowing your ship up instantaneously? Does this also work for rats? Is it optional?

If not, this is wrong.

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Originally by: Kaeten

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shoudl always get info on the corp befroe you pay ransom, see if they are trustworthy

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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Although it's comforting to note that the majority of pirates will be remaining single for the foreseeable future.

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Originally by: White Chasm

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As I stated previously, BIBO honors ransoms.

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When you're ransomed, you have two options:
a) you don't pay. You are guaranteed that your ship will go *poof*.
b) you pay. Depending on who's ransoming, you have a chance to get your ship out alive. No guarantees though.
[Agor Dirdonen]
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Some tips for everyone.

Don't pay EVERY ransom, but if you REALLY need to get that ship out, it has to be worth the risk than just giving up. Most pirates will give a very reasonable ransom rate and chances are, if your insured, it wont be that big a deal to lose that AND your ship. Then you can name and shame and cause those guys to (in theory) lose many millions of isk more in ransoms because they've proven they can't be trusted.

Of course if they let you go, then you've cut the amount you've stood to lose by a vast amount and the pirate gets a little dough.

Flame away? OK. You're an idiot. You expect everyone to just do what you say because YOU weren't careful, and YOU shelled out money to disreputable folks and then YOU weren't brave enough to name and shame with YOUR main? Idiot.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 09/09/2008 18:27:47
Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 09/09/2008 18:24:34

Originally by: Artemis Rose

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As being stated many times in this thread, the majority of pirates will honor ransoms. They can kill just fine without having to dishonor ransoms to pile up kill mails/loot.

It may be really shocking, but just because they shot at you for being in range, doesn't make them griefers, low self-esteem bullies or whatever assumption you want to make against them.

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Apparently some concepts have a hard time sinking in. It is not about honorable pirates versus dishonorable pirates. It is not about the pirates. It is about the right to say "no" to the oppressor.

Having an effective self-destruct mechanism in place that robs the pirate of the prize is a choice the victim makes for themselves. Being denied the option means they can only stand in the corner with their hat in their hand, baas Ganzendonk style, and say please and thank you and 'can I go now, please?'

The reason why the self-destruct mechanism was rendered useless, it turns out, is that too many people used it, thereby depriving the pirate of the prize. Because the pirate learned a lesson about the human condition: that people, if given the choice, would rather say "kust gij ne kier dik mijn kluuten, smeerlap" than to bow down and give in to their bullies.

And the pirates can't have that, and CCP appears to be of the same opinion.

See how effective piracy would be if people had the ability to deny the pirate the prize, how many people don't care about the honor-among-thieves and rather leave with nothing than to hand it over.

It is not about honoring ransoms, it is about the fact that it's not the pirate's stuff and they can't have it and the only way for the pirate to inflict themselves upon people is to whine at CCP's doorstep to take away the one tool for the victim to say "From Hell's heart I stab at thee" and rather lose everything than to part with anything.

I shall strive to restore the self-destruct mechanism to useful functionality: to violently, instantaneously and without warning beforehand destroy the space frame and its contents and render it unsalvageable.

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

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Originally by: Arthur Frayn

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How much to ruin all your holes, luv?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The victim has a right to decide what to do with his or her assets, whatever the opinion of interested parties.

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Originally by: Terianna Eri

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 09/09/2008 18:27:47
Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 09/09/2008 18:24:34

Originally by: Artemis Rose

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Your idea would destroy piracy and PVP forever. Nobody would ever get any loot from PVP - why would they? The targets would always just self-destruct.

Your idea smacks of "aww whaaaa, someone actually caught me, well nyah nyah you can't have my stuff, so there, I WIN!"

Did you get harassed by bullies a lot when you were a kid?

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What part of losing a space frame, plus rigging and content, feels like winning to you? Are you familiar with basic economics?

Writing off assets is the ultimate executive decision. Is it your contention that the owner should be denied the privilege of deciding what the best use of their assets is and when and how that judgment should be exercised? Are you comfortable with the idea of strangers accosting you in the street and telling you what you should do with your belongings? Are you at peace to be the minder of your assets at the behest of third party aggressors?

If you are, that would go a long way to explain the poor lack of understanding of basic economic concepts on display and I would know you thanks if you would forego the opportunity to inflict your warped sense of property ownership on me.


Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2008 00:03:51

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The victim has a right to decide what to do with his or her assets, whatever the opinion of interested parties.

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No, he doesn't. The moment you get caught is the moment someone is holding your assets at his mercy.

Fact is, you just want to kill piracy on the spot, and leave it only to the people who kill for fun (and would just kill & pod you, no questions asked, no ransoms offered).

So take your rubbish ideas somewhere else.

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Are you comfortable with the idea of people simply killing you instead of giving you the choice to throw said belongings away or taking your money and leaving?

Than I suggest you sit down and shut up, young one.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The owner of an asset has the right to choose what to do with the asset. The mere fact that someone wants to steal it is not a reason to have to give in to the demand. Is that a difficult concept for you?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Your contention that I want to kill piracy is utter nonsense. EVE is an environment where everybody should be able to do and say exactly what they feel.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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If it is the pirate's liberty to restrain players and hold them ransom is it not the victim's privilege not to comply? Does freedom in your universe only work one way?

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Originally by: Dhaaka Vincatar

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Despite the way he said it, Rudy is 100% correct, just like I noted myself. Your choice is as follows:

Currently:

1. Pay isk and save your ship and/or implants.
2. Try to commit suicide and die before it triggers.
2. Die.

After Abulurd self-destruct change:

1. Commit suicide.
2. Die.

I don't think this is a really a step forward.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2008 06:27:15

Self destructing takes time, but that is a difficult concept for you somehow.

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Your contention that I want to kill piracy is utter nonsense. EVE is an environment where everybody should be able to do and say exactly what they feel.

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Since when? EvE is a game with mechanics. They enable you to do certain things (or prevent you from doing them). You can't do all you want to be able to, particularly not with people holding a gun to your head. Why can't I rob the contents of your hangar in station, for instance? Surely in a environment where I should be able to do exactly what I feel it should be possible!

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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If it is the pirate's liberty to restrain players and hold them ransom is it not the victim's privilege not to comply? Does freedom in your universe only work one way?

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Does freedom outside EvE work when you get caught with a gun pointing to your head? Does your car have a self-destruct mechanism when someone's robbing you? Your assets? Can you in fact press a button and make them all vanish when there's a risk of someone robbing them? Really?


You can't have a 0 second self-destruct (in fact, it was changed a long time ago - it did exist at one point and it was indeed horrible). You've got precisely all the same tools pirates do (and more, in fact) to defend your assets. Use them. Stop being the poor victim, maybe?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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I know that the self-destruct sequence takes time, that was my whole point. Apparently it existed before and it worked well. So good in fact that the poor pirates were left without a crutch to limp through existence.

The pirate apparently -must- have a choice to engage, the victim -must not- have the option to accept or decline the aggression.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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But this functionality has in fact existed so I'm not asking for a feature that cannot be implemented. It is just being denied to the victim and was replaced with a feature that robs the action of all meaning.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Whatever doesn't inconvenience you is fine so long as you can keep the choice to inconvenience others.

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Originally by: Absurd Boniface

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RABBLE RABBLE

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Quote:

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Originally by: Absurd Boniface

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RABBLE RABBLE

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Lolwhat?

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Originally by: Jarek Switchblade

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Abulurd, I think you're looking at this from one side only, and it's making for an extremely biased point of view.

While you take into consideration the rights of the victim in every post, you seem to fail to see the "rights" of a pirate, ironically.

A pirate undocks, and depending on the region, can spend hours searching belts looking for targets before he happens upon something he can take on, whether that be the same class ship as his, or different.

So, when he does finally find a target, beat him in combat, AND get him to submit to demands to stop firing and negotiate a ransom, why should the victim (which is a bad term by the way - more on that in a sec) get a "LOL I WIN" button that makes hours of scanning and searching worthless?

It's kind of like a high-sec player mining for hours, only to have their can self destruct on its own, or a missioner being told by his agent that "Oh sorry, you can't have the reward for that last one."

Now, why "victims" is a bad term is because NO ONE is a victim until they lose the engagement...if you don't want to be put in the situation in the first place, FIGHT, and try to kill the pirate. If you can't beat him, strive to MWD away. If you can't fight, don't get caught! Prevention is better than cure, so just use the scanner wisely.

Pirates, especially solo, often warp into danger themselves, and these "hapless victims" are often far from defenceless - pirates often risk losing their ship in combat just as much as the victim, with only a better knowledge of how their ship runs well dictating the winner.

So, please try to consider the rights of the pirate as well as a defeated "victim", and try to shake this unrealistic attitude of all pirates being seemingly invincible forms of THE OPPRESSOR - far from it, pirates are players that work extremely hard in most cases for their targets, and do often risk themselves in the process.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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If the victim cannot have the benefit of their assets, why should the pirate?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Rights for pirates?!? When did that happen? You sat around for hours, actively planning to make a dent in someone's day. At what point did this transition into a right to the prize?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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You have no argument, you lack fluency and you put words in my mouth I never used.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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You have no argument, you lack fluency and you put words in my mouth I never used.

I'm not arguing with children.

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Originally by: Jarek Switchblade

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Quote:

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Never pay ransom! Fight to the bitter end!

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Now this is what I don't understand, and, imo, it destroys your whole argument instantly.

I mean, if you stand a chance against the pirates, fair play. If you're hopelessly dying though, what's the point?

See the story below -

A while back we had a guy that thought like this, he was flying a ship that was, if I remember correctly, worth 150 mil - 100 of that was mods.



He was offered a TOTAL ransom of 50 mil, but he steadfastedly declined. Since there were several of us attacking him, the 50 mil wouldn't have "funded more piracy" that much anyway between us, and instead he popped and lost all that cash...much of which dropped and was worth much more than the ransom asked.

The result? Good times for us, and very bad times for him.

We now regularly ship-scan our targets while ransoming, to ensure fair ransoms.

And as ALWAYS, The Bastards personally honour ransoms - in threads like these, its pretty much mandatory to say.

So yeah, I've said it once and I'll say it again, if the guy who is ransoming you is a nervous fool that seems to scream obscenities into chat and smack like a idiot, paying up isn't clever.

If you're being ransomed by the real deal, it is often in your best interests to pay, regardless of whether "more piracy" is funded or not - your attackers will get cash anyway, and will not hesitate to kill you...plus if you're smart and you pay up, you will likely save a great deal of time and not get caught next time, as you will be aware of the dangers if you are smart.

Also, you say you are not tarring us all with the same immature, inaccurate brush, but then you go and throw out stuff like -

Quote:

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Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

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Well, comments like that show a distinct ignorance, or a poor experience with nub wannabes in the past.

Show the profession some respect, and maybe people will respond in kind to you too

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Originally by: H Lecter

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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You have no argument, you lack fluency and you put words in my mouth I never used.

I'm not arguing with children.

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Your eloquent style of argumentation leaves me deeply impressed. You have now convinced me - I will end this gruesome way of playing the game and defend the poor helpless victims of New Eden side by side with you Sir!

I shall send daily petitions to CCP to ban piracy from EVE forever. Instead they should offer activities like pony riding or bible quizzes! We will all enjoy a much brighter world with no harm to anybody.

...NOT!

I guess this is the right game for you!

And can I haz your stuff?

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2008 06:27:15

Self destructing takes time, but that is a difficult concept for you somehow.

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Your contention that I want to kill piracy is utter nonsense. EVE is an environment where everybody should be able to do and say exactly what they feel.

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Since when? EvE is a game with mechanics. They enable you to do certain things (or prevent you from doing them). You can't do all you want to be able to, particularly not with people holding a gun to your head. Why can't I rob the contents of your hangar in station, for instance? Surely in a environment where I should be able to do exactly what I feel it should be possible!

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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If it is the pirate's liberty to restrain players and hold them ransom is it not the victim's privilege not to comply? Does freedom in your universe only work one way?

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Does freedom outside EvE work when you get caught with a gun pointing to your head? Does your car have a self-destruct mechanism when someone's robbing you? Your assets? Can you in fact press a button and make them all vanish when there's a risk of someone robbing them? Really?


You can't have a 0 second self-destruct (in fact, it was changed a long time ago - it did exist at one point and it was indeed horrible). You've got precisely all the same tools pirates do (and more, in fact) to defend your assets. Use them. Stop being the poor victim, maybe?

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I know that the self-destruct sequence takes time, that was my whole point. Apparently it existed before and it worked well. So good in fact that the poor pirates were left without a crutch to limp through existence.

The pirate apparently -must- have a choice to engage, the victim -must not- have the option to accept or decline the aggression.

I appreciate that the game mechanics do not allow for any and all action the player chooses. I used the word 'should' for a reason. But this functionality has in fact existed so I'm not asking for a feature that cannot be implemented. It is just being denied to the victim and was replaced with a feature that robs the action of all meaning. It does not bother you that the game contains useless code as long as it does not interfere with how you want to play the game. You are absolutely at ease with the fact that it takes away a choice about how someone else may choose to play the game. Whatever doesn't inconvenience you is fine so long as you can keep the choice to inconvenience others.

When you have guests at your house, do they have to fight and defend the food on their plate or don't you bother with quaint antics that involve some of the finer social graces?

Also, you seem to lack any grasp of the freedom to act outside of EVE, even with a gun pointed to your head. Which is why we are having this whole discussion in the first place. Don't fret about it. It'll be fine, I'm here. You will be educated. It will take time but we'll get there. Such is my love for my fellow human.

About that stuffed animal, any preference as to color, texture, fabric, size and shape?

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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3) Never, ever, smack talk, or whine in local, it fuels their rather low self esteem in RL. They are fond of mentioning that carebear tears fuel their POS (read self esteem). Nothing will be more confusing and irritating than a silent victim.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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ROFLMAO

Nobody reads what I wrote. I did not lump pirates into a category. I simply said, do not pay ransom and offered tips regarding this.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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A load of shit.

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Quote:

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Almost cared... well not really

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Your HelloKitty suggestion is not original, it has been brought up before.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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Although it's comforting to note that the majority of pirates will be remaining single for the foreseeable future.

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Originally by: Kaya Valda

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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A load of shit.

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You sir are an idiot. .

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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It's still more fun to lock them down get your ransom.. then kill the noob anyways.. kinda win win

Ransom + mods+ crying noob = Pure Enjoyment

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Originally by: ScaR97731

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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It's still more fun to lock them down get your ransom.. then kill the noob anyways.. kinda win win

Ransom + mods+ crying noob = Pure Enjoyment

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You are a total poster child representing the trash-people of EVE. You have serious issues. Do you take medication? If not you should.

Also, I say never pay the ransom; don't give them any money, and always make it a habit before your ship gets blown up to insult the pirate. Also if you plan to fly in a risky area, do it in a cheap ship with all lame, t1 parts. Keep those filthy animals living on welfare down in the lower sectors where they belong.

Pirates = Trash which = Scum

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I have yet to hear one argument that stands the test of reason why piracy would no longer be possible if both sides of the argument engage on an equal footing.

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Originally by: Jarek Switchblade

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Quote:

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I have yet to hear one argument that stands the test of reason why piracy would no longer be possible if both sides of the argument engage on an equal footing.

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What? Seriously, what sort of reason do you need? You're either an extremely successful troll, or you have no idea what goes on in low-sec and below.

As has already been pointed out, these "victims" often also fly enormous battleships, which are often more expensively equipped and often more lethal (if used well...) than the stuff I fly myself.

So why are you acting like they are forced to fly untanked haulers full of billions in blueprints?

And, more fundamentally, why do you seem to think that if someone wins a fight, they shouldn't get a reward? If anything's lacking, it's reason on your part - you continue to post the same psuedo-profundic drivel over and over.

Note - this is a game forum, there is no need to address people as "Sir", "Madam", or "Archbishop of Canterbury", and doing so actually comes across as pompous and sarcastic...

So anyway, please define why exactly the "victim" and pirate don't engage on "equal footing"?
If the victim isn't "engaging" on equal footing, it's his fault for

A: Not bringing a ship prepared for combat
B: Knowingly going to parts of space where he can't handle the inhabitants.

It's the same if you're a pirate and your victim is better prepared.

Also, if someone were to just mug you on the street, would you really expect to engage in "fair terms"? Would you like a big knife too, y'know, just to balance things out a bit?
Oh, and of course if the guy gets your wallet it'll explode, so it's all good ¼_¼

There's no logic in your posts. At all.

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Quote:

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And, more fundamentally, why do you seem to think that if someone wins a fight, they shouldn't get a reward?

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Quote:

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Why do you believe the pirate should receive a reward?

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I derive no joy from having to repeat myself.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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It's still more fun to lock them down get your ransom.. then kill the noob anyways.. kinda win win

Ransom + mods+ crying noob = Pure Enjoyment

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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TBH the way i look at it is the person whom you are going to ransom 9 times out of 10 is not going to make the same mistake twice.. so as for repeat business from said person it's well probley not going to happen....

So to max your profit Get your ransom then kill the person.. collect your Mods + mail. and go find the next victim.. or are they really a victim or just someone not paying attention..

I know if i go into a bad area of town at 2am on a saturday night and start walking around well i'm gonna run into a problem. i might win the fight i might not.. point is i put myself into a bad spot by not READING THE SIGNS.

I'm sure alot of you will not understand my point or my way of thinking but this is how i have and will keep playing the game.

Plus there is nothing more sweet then a noob crying.. and some isk to boot

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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It's still more fun to lock them down get your ransom.. then kill the noob anyways.. kinda win win

Ransom + mods+ crying noob = Pure Enjoyment

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You just made my case. Thanks.

I think the intelligent reader can deduce for themself the quality of character from their responses in these forums.

Those who resort to name calling amongst other purile behaviors as a debate strategy need to grow up.

Now... why would I want to be harrased by this kind of immature behavior in game? Or become a target for so-and-so to make my game play a little more difficult than it needs to be?

Now you know why I won't post with my main.

Abulurd Boniface: You've put the issues out there quite eloquently and I totally agree with you.

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Originally by: Jarek Switchblade

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Also, if someone were to just mug you on the street, would you really expect to engage in "fair terms"? Would you like a big knife too, y'know, just to balance things out a bit?
Oh, and of course if the guy gets your wallet it'll explode, so it's all good ¼_¼

There's no logic in your posts. At all.

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Originally by: My'kel An'jelo

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look at all these words about e-honour

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Originally by: Solomon XI

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As a fellow pirate, I must say that not honoring ransoms is bad for business. Those who do not honor ransoms are the lowest of the low and will quickly find themselves public enemy #1 to most pirate corporations. Not like it'd matter anyway.

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Originally by: Solomon XI

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As a fellow pirate, I must say that not honoring ransoms is bad for business. Those who do not honor ransoms are the lowest of the low and will quickly find themselves public enemy #1 to most pirate corporations. Not like it'd matter anyway.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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subject of unwanted aggression

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Originally by: Greckor Monmouth

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Edited by: Greckor Monmouth on 13/09/2008 18:44:02

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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subject of unwanted aggression

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I did everything I could to point out this sentence to you. Just because you don't want something to happen, doesn't mean you can make it so it can't. Let me put it this way. I go to college, in college I have homework. Do I WANT to do this homework? No. Is it required? Yes.

This translates into eve because by undocking, you sign an agreement that you CAN and most likely WILL get shot at. It is a feature of the game, get over it.

Your moronic and absurd suggestions frankly disgust my sensibilites. Why should I have to play your version of a game because you don't like to do what I like to do? Stay in high sec if you don't want to have a chance of getting attacked.

In your view, someone who harms someone else doesn't deserve any enjoyment in the game? Then I demand that all those people that make mods and sell them n the market get nerfed!!! They keep undercutting me and I am not making money!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

EDIT-WoW might be a better option to you. I say this not because it is an overused meme, but because that fits better your idea of what you want PvP to be.

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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And Terra baby when ya commin home m8

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Originally by: Hells Reclaimer

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Ransom + mods+ crying noob = Pure Enjoyment

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The pirate apparently -must- have a choice to engage, the victim -must not- have the option to accept or decline the aggression.

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Originally by: Xi Tzu

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The pirate apparently -must- have a choice to engage, the victim -must not- have the option to accept or decline the aggression.

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Your supposed victim made the choice to accept any and all aggression the moment they undock.

The place for having the choice to accept aggression is in a station.

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Originally by: Xi Tzu

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The pirate apparently -must- have a choice to engage, the victim -must not- have the option to accept or decline the aggression.

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Your supposed victim made the choice to accept any and all aggression the moment they chose to go through the gate into the 0.4 or below system, there is a warning screen, you ignore it at your peril.

The place for having the choice to accept aggression is Hisec.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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The supposed victim has no choice but to venture out into low-sec when they need to gather minerals that are simply not available in hi-sec.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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You offer no argument why the victim should have no choice. You only join the consensus in this thread that holds that the victim has to accept that he has no choice.

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Originally by: Candice Dice

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Never pay the "Ransom", go down fighting and just accept the loss, better to die on your feet than be stabbed in the back on your knees and let's face it, the whole, 'we honour ransoms' to be mostly bullshit since they always find a 'loophole' or reason not to pay which usually ends up with an e-peen thread on whine and punishment.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Show me a nice pirate then? One that goes, "Oh, I caught you, I will let you go peacefully if you send me some ISK for my hard work in catching you." As opposed to one that goes, "100M" in chat and leaves it at that while they take your ship into structure. Doesn't quite set the picture that you will make it out anyways.

I repeat, don't pay ransom. It just ain't worth it due to the many variables. I'm not going to check who will honor ransom if I'm stuck in a situation where I'm going into structure.

Maybe pirate corps could benefit from a public relations department. LMAO

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Originally by: Drunk Driver

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I don't understand ransom.

Just blow up the ship and see what pops out. You know, like a space pinata!

You may not make as much money, but it's more fun that way.




.

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Originally by: Drunk Driver

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I don't understand ransom.

Just blow up the ship and see what pops out. You know, like a space pinata!

You may not make as much money, but it's more fun that way.


.

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Originally by: thisisnotanalt

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Never pay ransom! Fight to the bitter end!

1) There are too many variables. If they have you scrambled and webbed and demand ransom. Whats to say they won't blow your ship up after you pay? They are pirates afterall.

2) Your ransom directly funds pirate activity, don't pay and watch em squirm with just whatever mods you drop, if any.

3) Never, ever, smack talk, or whine in local, it fuels their rather low self esteem in RL. They are fond of mentioning that carebear tears fuel their POS (read self esteem). Nothing will be more confusing and irritating than a silent victim. Note they will typically open up a private chat for ransom. Your response should be 2 words: "fug off." Nothing more.

Some tips for everyone!

1) Set the pirate and his corp to red. Next time you know to avoid them like the plague. See red minus in local = time to leave.

2) Fly insured T1 ships. Let them blow you up. They get nothing. You get insurance payout!

3) Jump clones FTW!

4) On board ship scanner FTW!

So in short: NEVER PAY RANSOM! Stiffle the flow of big isk to the pirate "economy" which will consist of rats and 'roids only. And I'm not just talking about asteroids... the 'roids they will get from sitting around in local for hours waiting for a victim once more people become more educated about dealing with pirates. By not paying ransom you can rest assure your dignity is still intact, and they got nothing from you save a few random mods from your ship.

FLAME AWAY! I take pride that this post will **** off many and cause them to waste more collective man hours responding to this than the 5 minutes it took me to write this.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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stuff

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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I'll make demands and spew BS.

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Originally by: Boomershoot

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if you pay ransom, well done, now you have 9% to get your ship out intact. the other 90% of the times, you die.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Boomershoot

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if you pay ransom, well done, now you have 9% to get your ship out intact. the other 90% of the times, you die.

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Orly?

So are you just shitpoasting or actually pulling statistics out of your arse?

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Originally by: Ana Vyr

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Pirates, no matter how nice or polite they are, make their living ripping off other players. They are criminals. While the game mechanics allow this, and the game is structured so that it's a perfectly viable way to play...why should they be treated with anything but contempt? They are criminals.
(...)
Since they are criminals in the first place, pirates cannot be trusted to hold true to any rules of conduct. They can argue this all they want, but you know damned well they crossed the morality line long ago for their own reasons.

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Originally by: Tai Paktu

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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stuff

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Man, you're using big words. Some of us are drunk and can't comprehend your argument.

Your miner has no market for his minerals if the manufacturer can't sell his finished product to someone who needs a new ship. Now I'm no mathemtist, but I'd guess that the premier cause of needing new ships in EvE is the exlpoding of old ones, and pirates provide that service in spades.

Basically, the victim does have a choice, several in fact. In your scenario, the adventerous pilot ventures to low sec to get hard to find minerals and refuses to pay the ransom. They chose to fly to low sec, too bad. It's dangerous there. They chose to try to mine the minerals themselves to maximize profit margins. Too bad, next time just by the minerals on market. And finally, they chose not to pay the ransom. No sweat off my back, I'll scoop the loot all the same. I'd much rather let you keep your ship and not violence it too much. Hell, I may even let you finish your mission or haul your can for an extra fee.

But that's your choice, not mine. I just chose to be an emotionally un-adjusted 40-something (or 11 year old) virgin living in my parents basement. (I recognize you didn't say that per se, but it's implied in a lot of carebear propaganda). At the end of the day, I chose to be an evil pirate and violence your spaceboat. You can choose to come to low sec and let me, not come to low sec and let me do it to someone else, or come to low sec and pay me not to do it. Choices are great, aren't they?

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/09/2008 13:37:43
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/09/2008 13:34:42

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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I'll make demands and spew BS.

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And we should care because?

You get a warning saying "You know, you're going to die." when you jump into low-sec. You click "Yes, get on with it." and then you want a previously broken mechanic to be broken again just so you can say 'ha ha, can't get my stuff'. Right.

It has nothing to do with ransoming at all - you just want to deny the victor any loot, even if you initiated agression and saw you were going to lose.

The idea is roughly equivalent to someone saying "hey, guys, I have a great idea, how about we remove all missions/rats/asteroids from high-sec, and make missions & rats 0.0 only?" in general discussion. The fact we didn't flame you that badly just proves how nice and considerate the pirate community is to the chronically stupid.

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Twice the argument of 'buying minerals on the market' is offered. I thought of making an Oompa Loompa rhyme for that one. Instead, I'm thinking of what Dorothy said to the scarecrow: "What would you do with a brain if you had one?" How do you think the minerals reach the market? Osmosis?

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Originally by: Moric Longshanks

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Twice the argument of 'buying minerals on the market' is offered. I thought of making an Oompa Loompa rhyme for that one. Instead, I'm thinking of what Dorothy said to the scarecrow: "What would you do with a brain if you had one?" How do you think the minerals reach the market? Osmosis?

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What would I do with brain if I had one? Hmm . . .

I would probably use it to point out the fact the apparently there are some miners out there smart enough to make it back to high sec with their cargo. Since this is the case, you don't personally "need" to go to low sec. Somebody better will do it for you, and you will pay him for it.

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Originally by: Moric Longshanks

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Twice the argument of 'buying minerals on the market' is offered. I thought of making an Oompa Loompa rhyme for that one. Instead, I'm thinking of what Dorothy said to the scarecrow: "What would you do with a brain if you had one?" How do you think the minerals reach the market? Osmosis?

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What would I do with brain if I had one? Hmm . . .

I would probably use it to point out the fact the apparently there are some miners out there smart enough to make it back to high sec with their cargo. Since this is the case, you don't personally "need" to go to low sec. Somebody better will do it for you, and you will pay him for it.

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Originally by: Karrade Krise

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Are you r3tarded?

Well...anyways obvious troll is obvious even if a bit on the stupid side...

As stated many times in this thread. Only a small fration of people dishonor ransoms. Do me a favor and stop trying to ruin our payouts.

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Originally by: Bluetippedflyer

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i've always honoured ransoms. In the end i'm saving you isk from buying a new ship. Please thank me next time it happens to you and be glad a ransom is even offered.

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Originally by: Saniyya Najat

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Originally by: Karrade Krise

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Are you r3tarded?

Well...anyways obvious troll is obvious even if a bit on the stupid side...

As stated many times in this thread. Only a small fration of people dishonor ransoms. Do me a favor and stop trying to ruin our payouts.

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Not sure if your talking to me or one of the posters above me. Since my post is closest I will retort. Since there are no numbers to quote your assertion is empty supposition. I am not claiming to know anything about pirate behavior beyond my own experience. I have been ransomed on occasion and while many pirates honored the deal they made others have not. There was even a group of pirates that would only ransom pods. Carebears aren't ruining your sweet payout, your own fellow pirates are. I will state my main point one last time (just in case). If going to low-sec paid off for me I would gladly risk the ships to go there. Simply put, if I get ransomed two or three times, or if I loose more than two or three ships I will show a loss on that particular endeavor. I understand that many of you can loose dozens of ships and not feel it in the wallet too bad. I, however, cannot. No big pay-out, no leaving high-sec. You want me to join you in low-sec then you all figure out a way to do it. Nerfing lvl 4 missions won't do it. I can still make the money I need and not have to run the risk of losing isk in low-sec.

Simply put, pirates need to stop claiming that ransoms are a sure thing, 'cause they are not. Make all the claims you want, I know better from experience.

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Originally by: Juan Ignacio

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pd = Cpt branko i remember you !!! you killed my mining badger in tama !!! becouse of u i turned to piwat .. ty for blowing me up lolx

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Originally by: Candice Dice

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Never pay the "Ransom", go down fighting and just accept the loss, better to die on your feet than be stabbed in the back on your knees and let's face it, the whole, 'we honour ransoms' to be mostly bullshit since they always find a 'loophole' or reason not to pay which usually ends up with an e-peen thread on whine and punishment.

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Originally by: Eljar Kjeldsson

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boniface is now KOS just to **** em off

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Originally by: Karrade Krise

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Originally by: Saniyya Najat

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Originally by: Karrade Krise

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Are you r3tarded?
].

Bah, you gotta be kidding me...wrote a ridiculously long post...and Internet explorer decides to take a dump on it....grrrrr..

Anyways....I was refferring to the OP. Dang it this would have been a good post too

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Try this: type your post in Notepad, save it to MyDocuments, copy/paste it into a forum text field.

When something goes wrong, a common event, you can recall your text instantly and you didn't spend all that time crafting a good argument just to see it sent to /dev/null.

Just a friendly suggestion.

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Apparently some concepts have a hard time sinking in. It is not about honorable pirates versus dishonorable pirates. It is not about the pirates. It is about the right to say "no" to the oppressor.

Having an effective self-destruct mechanism in place that robs the pirate of the prize is a choice the victim makes for themselves. Being denied the option means they can only stand in the corner with their hat in their hand, baas Ganzendonk style, and say please and thank you and 'can I go now, please?'

The reason why the self-destruct mechanism was rendered useless, it turns out, is that too many people used it, thereby depriving the pirate of the prize. Because the pirate learned a lesson about the human condition: that people, if given the choice, would rather say "kust gij ne kier dik mijn kluuten, smeerlap" than to bow down and give in to their bullies.

And the pirates can't have that, and CCP appears to be of the same opinion.

See how effective piracy would be if people had the ability to deny the pirate the prize, how many people don't care about the honor-among-thieves and rather leave with nothing than to hand it over.

It is not about honoring ransoms, it is about the fact that it's not the pirate's stuff and they can't have it and the only way for the pirate to inflict themselves upon people is to whine at CCP's doorstep to take away the one tool for the victim to say "From Hell's heart I stab at thee" and rather lose everything than to part with anything.

I shall strive to restore the self-destruct mechanism to useful functionality: to violently, instantaneously and without warning beforehand destroy the space frame and its contents and render it unsalvageable.

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

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Originally by: Salen Kane

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On a side note, I find it amusing with all these pirate corps saying "we always honor randsoms and anyone not doing so will get kicked out" because its so obvious that any corp that does NOT honor randsoms would say exactly the same thing.

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Originally by: Salen Kane

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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I can really picture this guy (who in my mind is a slightly overweight emo kid, but that's just my imagination) shouting "From hells heart I stab at thee!" and "Death to the oppressors!" as his ships gets blown up. I never actually tried any piracy, but now I feel tempted! However, being a victim is NOT the only option here. You could get some friends and fight back. Might require more effort than dedicating your life to getting the self destruct mechanisms changed, though.

On a side note, I find it amusing with all these pirate corps saying "we always honor randsoms and anyone not doing so will get kicked out" because its so obvious that any corp that does NOT honor randsoms would say exactly the same thing.

Oh, and it has been said before but it can be said again: dont fly it unless you can afford to lose it.

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I will send you a million ISK in game to get a better imagination. Whatever you are using to serve the purpose is sorely lacking.

Trust me, I know these things.

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

Originally by: Salen Kane

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From the bowels of hell, your sarcasm fails.

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Originally by: Salen Kane

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Originally by: Abulurd Boniface

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Apparently some concepts have a hard time sinking in. It is not about honorable pirates versus dishonorable pirates. It is not about the pirates. It is about the right to say "no" to the oppressor.

Having an effective self-destruct mechanism in place that robs the pirate of the prize is a choice the victim makes for themselves. Being denied the option means they can only stand in the corner with their hat in their hand, baas Ganzendonk style, and say please and thank you and 'can I go now, please?'

The reason why the self-destruct mechanism was rendered useless, it turns out, is that too many people used it, thereby depriving the pirate of the prize. Because the pirate learned a lesson about the human condition: that people, if given the choice, would rather say "kust gij ne kier dik mijn kluuten, smeerlap" than to bow down and give in to their bullies.

And the pirates can't have that, and CCP appears to be of the same opinion.

See how effective piracy would be if people had the ability to deny the pirate the prize, how many people don't care about the honor-among-thieves and rather leave with nothing than to hand it over.

It is not about honoring ransoms, it is about the fact that it's not the pirate's stuff and they can't have it and the only way for the pirate to inflict themselves upon people is to whine at CCP's doorstep to take away the one tool for the victim to say "From Hell's heart I stab at thee" and rather lose everything than to part with anything.

I shall strive to restore the self-destruct mechanism to useful functionality: to violently, instantaneously and without warning beforehand destroy the space frame and its contents and render it unsalvageable.

Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO

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I can really picture this guy (who in my mind is a slightly overweight emo kid, but that's just my imagination) shouting "From hells heart I stab at thee!" and "Death to the oppressors!" as his ships gets blown up. I never actually tried any piracy, but now I feel tempted! However, being a victim is NOT the only option here. You could get some friends and fight back. Might require more effort than dedicating your life to getting the self destruct mechanisms changed, though.

On a side note, I find it amusing with all these pirate corps saying "we always honor randsoms and anyone not doing so will get kicked out" because its so obvious that any corp that does NOT honor randsoms would say exactly the same thing.

Oh, and it has been said before but it can be said again: dont fly it unless you can afford to lose it.

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Originally by: ponieus

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Real Pirates always honor their ransoms.


Do not lump in real pirates with the wanna be's out there.

Thats like saying all 0.0 alliances are crap like the NC.. Kinda dont make sense now does it.

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Originally by: Mr Daytrading

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how about this: u are ratting in 0.0 and u hit a officer with 2 bil worth mods. Then u hit a gatecamp and they ransom u for 200 m and u are in a raven. U still dont pay ransome?

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Originally by: Goyda

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I have been reading this thread and I came up with an idea, I think it will work for about 80% of the people but there will be 20% who don't like it (well knowing this crowd more like 50/50) it's not perfect or I'm sure completely thought out, But here's the link

Linkage


Do 0.0 gatecamps actually ransom ?

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Originally by: Aalana

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Edited by: Aalana on 03/10/2008 15:09:15
In 0.0 getting them to come on TS and sing for their worthless ratting raven is far more fun.

Typically I'd just blow you up. But the comedy value of them singing for their internet spaceship is a guaranteed way to get me to let them go.

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