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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 09/09/2008 03:09:30
What if you could search an any character, deleted or not, and find all characters past and present who are either on the same account, or the account is owned by the same player?
The player's real name or any RL information would not be shown, obviously, but all characters you control or have controlled would be permanently logged and shown as one linked group.
Some interesting benefits:
1. Spies have to actually go BE in the enemy alliance/corp instead of just using an alt. Raises the value and risk, and arguably the fun, of being a spy.
2. The end of alt-forum posting (yay)
3. Scammers would have to hide from or deal with the resulting reputation.
4. Enough trust could be built to support real banking and stocks.
Honestly I see very little bad that could come from it.
What does the forum think? Discuss.
 Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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TYCONDEROGA
Amarr
EMPERIAL ARMOR
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:17:00 -
[2]
I have nothing to hide
Those that do, I'm sure will make their feelings known here. 
He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
TheG2
Gallente
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:18:00 -
[3]
Well, for the record, we already have several banks.
But theres no real difference to the real world. In the real world, I can create fake ID's, or even steal someones identity to commit fraud or scams.
Although alt-posting should be brought to an end and the use of Alts for everything in-game ruins some aspects (sec status penalties have hauler alts for example)
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TheG2
Gallente
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: TheG2 on 09/09/2008 03:19:12
*double post*
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:21:00 -
[5]
I'm up for it, but I'm sure many people will disagree.
9 out of 10 blueprints prefer New Eden Research!
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: TheG2
Well, for the record, we already have several banks.
But theres no real difference to the real world. In the real world, I can create fake ID's, or even steal someones identity to commit fraud or scams.
Although alt-posting should be brought to an end and the use of Alts for everything in-game ruins some aspects (sec status penalties have hauler alts for example)
Taking loans out from those banks is difficult because you have to give them collateral to get loans, because otherwise they can't find you if you run off with their money.
In the real world you can indeed create fake ids, but the fakeness only goes so far, and you can't delete the original you.
Perhaps one could bribe pirate agents with a huge sum to unlink a character from your association, effectively creating a fake ID. It should be expensive and have its own difficulties though.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:27:00 -
[7]
There will be no way to have accounts reasonably traced back to individual owners. I know for I fund several accounts not all of which are my own. (Family, friends, its nice being an isk maker!) That being the case: Originally by: Synapse Archae
1. Spies have to actually go BE in the enemy alliance/corp instead of just using an alt. Raises the value and risk, and arguably the fun, of being a spy.
Can be bypassed via multiple accounts. Trust me, I've done it. Originally by: Synapse Archae
2. The end of alt-forum posting (yay)
Can be bypassed via multiple accounts. Trust me, I watch it done all the time. Originally by: Synapse Archae
3. Scammers would have to hide from or deal with the resulting reputation.
Can be bypassed via multiple accounts. A good scam, a good to great one, can easily pay for 1 - 2 years of game time and facilitate the transfer/purchase of toons. Originally by: Synapse Archae
4. Enough trust could be built to support real banking and stocks.
Eve General discussion is the least likely place to really discuss this in any detail. Add in the fact that not only has this been discussed, ad infinitum ad nauseum, in the Market forum but there is 3 functioning banks of varying success and reputation. Many many more good stocks in play. On #4: You simply don't what you are talking about. Removing of alts won't change the basic nature of losers. Just make them expend 1, maybe 2, more iotas of effort. It will also create a very false sense of security just as the API did. (Or haven't you heard - the first api scam took place a month or so ago. Can't stop losers.)
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:31:00 -
[8]
Bad that could come out of it:
1. A lot of alts would have no point, since they've been specifically created for forum posting, spying, anonymity, etc. Result: fewer active accounts, less money for CCP.
2. It would eliminate spying, theft, scamming, alt forum posting, etc., which are valid ways to play the game, even if YOU don't like such activities. What should we all be limited to, missions and mining?
3. There's no trust for "real" banking and stocks. You can eliminate people who have a past criminal record, but you know, here: I've been an exemplary carebear for the past 5 years, let me borrow 15 billion, and I think I can live with the "reputation" once I run away with the money. There's no trust.
4. Someone who has an Amarr character and a Minmatar character and is keeping them separate and tries to roleplay with each, won't be able to continue doing so because they're shown as a "linked group".
5. Say I have a sweet eye for one of the CSM girls, cause, like, she posted her pics, and I know her CSM character name. By all means do link all of her characters so I can harrass to my hearts content, no matter how she tries to hide.
6. Ditto with any other EVE famous or infamous persons: alliance leaders, corp leaders, just about anyone. Find out all their alts, use locator agents, go kill them over and over, just to harrass. Heck, anyone, camp a player on all his alts, frustrate him out of the game. Log in, boom, dead, repeat forever.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:36:00 -
[9]
Well, almost on topic, take a note from PlanetSide. You can only switch characters on the same account every 24 hours.
I hate the function in that game, but it's there for a reason. Too easy to hop to an alt, check out the enemies defenses, then hop to your main and break the bank.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
or the account is owned by the same player?
How would they be able to tell?
IP? What if more than 1 person in the same house?
Comp? What if person is using more than 1 comp for their accounts?
Billing info? What if they pay with GTCs?
- Infectious - |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Synapse Archae
or the account is owned by the same player?
How would they be able to tell?
IP? What if more than 1 person in the same house?
Comp? What if person is using more than 1 comp for their accounts?
Billing info? What if they pay with GTCs?
Too many ways around it. My ISP cycles and randomizes IP addresses. I could use GTC's and various different methods of payments. I could get my wife to use her maiden name for purchases. I have MANY different comps, and have been known to play on wireless pickups.
I know it's annoying, but no game has figured out how to stop players from using multiple accounts, not that I know of.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Mystic Pete
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:52:00 -
[12]
Only use an second character every 24 hours?
I have been known to use an alt to test corp settings and security. This can often mean switch several times to ensure everythings corret. Are you saying I shouldn't be able to do this, or that it's far too easy? Your coming up with ideas without any real thought.
As for the general idea of inking characters;
As was said previously, at least in part; If you have two seperate characters you should be able to use them both freely without consequence. If your main has got their sec murdered and a fleet full of war targets on their tail shouldn't they be able to log onto another charater for a break?
Basically what you doing is seriously messing with how accounts work for no benefit. In all honesty would it even be so bad if we could train three characters on one account even?
Short answer. No, no, and no.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mystic Pete
Only use an second character every 24 hours?
I have been known to use an alt to test corp settings and security. This can often mean switch several times to ensure everythings corret. Are you saying I shouldn't be able to do this, or that it's far too easy? Your coming up with ideas without any real thought.
As for the general idea of inking characters;
As was said previously, at least in part; If you have two seperate characters you should be able to use them both freely without consequence. If your main has got their sec murdered and a fleet full of war targets on their tail shouldn't they be able to log onto another charater for a break?
Basically what you doing is seriously messing with how accounts work for no benefit. In all honesty would it even be so bad if we could train three characters on one account even?
Short answer. No, no, and no.
Hmm, maybe it wasn't clear enough. I just brought up a method used by a completely separate game. I even mentioned not liking it personally.
Options are options though, no matter how bad they are. I don't think this 'issue' can be fixed, personally. But if it's been done in another game to combat the issue, it's worth bringing up.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:43:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 09/09/2008 04:51:04
Linking separate accounts could be done with a combination of billing data. GTCs would represent an issue to be overcome. Some development would have to be done, but not an insurmountable or even really difficult amount of work. I do program and I do work in software so I'm not totally speaking out of my ass here.
IP address, while not admissable in court, could conceivably play a part in an algorythm, so long as it wasn't heavily relied upon.
To create an alt beyond this would be certainly possible, but would require a separate shipping address, a separate credit card with a separate billing address, a separate email address, and a Pseudonym which wouldn't break Eve's EULA...If a scam breaks the EULA, you could back that up with threats of GM's banning your account and redestributing stolen isk, if theres enough of it. I wouldnt want to see GM's running around playing utopia for every lost 10m. Stealing tens of billions would still be fine so long as you didn't break the EULA to do it.
I'd call that a significant increase to the trustworthyness of people.
I don't want to remove or prohibit scamming or spying. I just want both to be tied to a real threat of reputation. A good spy will be able to cast enough doubt to rebuild his career. A good theif should only have to steal once to be set for life. A good scammer will find scams that people don't run a background check before they jump in (10x your isk anyone?)
A healthy dose of trust would make an evil, dark, world that much more evil and dark, when scammers and theives go on to build their own corps with no regrets.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Neesa Corrinne
Dark Destiny Inc.
Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:46:00 -
[15]
The OP is basing this topic on the premise that people only have one account.
Many people in this game have multiple accounts and it's really not that expensive to start another account for your spy toon if you really wanted to.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The OP is basing this topic on the premise that people only have one account.
Many people in this game have multiple accounts and it's really not that expensive to start another account for your spy toon if you really wanted to.
Next time, read the actual post.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The OP is basing this topic on the premise that people only have one account.
Many people in this game have multiple accounts and it's really not that expensive to start another account for your spy toon if you really wanted to.
Next time, read the actual post.
While I understand much of your reasonings, it would seriously hurt the 'roleplay' aspect of the game in my opinion.
I have many characters. I play them completely differently. Some would argue that this type of play is 'dishonest', when in fact we are nothing more then actors on a stage in a video game.
While I don't have pirates or scammer alts, I have many alts in positions where they are ... vulnerable. Do I, as the player, use the information these alts gather and find? Yes. But do my characters use this information? Rarely, if ever.
Try to hardcode a reputation into the game, and you do take away alot of the roleplay aspect.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Neesa Corrinne
Dark Destiny Inc.
Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The OP is basing this topic on the premise that people only have one account.
Many people in this game have multiple accounts and it's really not that expensive to start another account for your spy toon if you really wanted to.
Next time, read the actual post.
Quote me where I'm wrong please. I read the whole post and what I said is factually true. Multiple accounts is a complete and total workaround for what you are talking about.
Please have completely thought out ideas before hitting the post button.
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Soleramnus
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:59:00 -
[19]
An even more interesting question would be if people felt what they did in the game world had weight on their conscience in the real world.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Soleramnus
An even more interesting question would be if people felt what they did in the game world had weight on their conscience in the real world.
Why should it, though?
While I understand someone who has personal moral codework that they don't wish to upset (like me and how I feel about theft or scamming), I also think that EvE is still a game, to be treated as such.
Killing someone in a video game doesn't make you a homicidal maniac. Of course, it's also how far you take it, and your mentality while doing so. Are you killing new players and getting a b*ner while your at it, working up a sick sweat? Yeah, you might have problems.
But I'll pop another ship over a cup of tea and it's not a big thing. There's no menace to it, very little emotion involved. To me, it's something to do.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
|
Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Quote me where I'm wrong please. I read the whole post and what I said is factually true. Multiple accounts is a complete and total workaround for what you are talking about.
Please have completely thought out ideas before hitting the post button.
From the first line:
Originally by: Synapse Archae
...,or the account is owned by the same player?
Post #14 is entirely about elaborating on that point. Like I said, please read my posts first.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Soleramnus
An even more interesting question would be if people felt what they did in the game world had weight on their conscience in the real world.
Why should it, though?
While I understand someone who has personal moral codework that they don't wish to upset (like me and how I feel about theft or scamming), I also think that EvE is still a game, to be treated as such.
Killing someone in a video game doesn't make you a homicidal maniac. Of course, it's also how far you take it, and your mentality while doing so. Are you killing new players and getting a b*ner while your at it, working up a sick sweat? Yeah, you might have problems.
But I'll pop another ship over a cup of tea and it's not a big thing. There's no menace to it, very little emotion involved. To me, it's something to do.
I don't think having to stick with a single character would drag your conscience into it any more than the current mechanics do. It's still a personality entirely separate from your own. The difference would be that you'd have to take more long term consideration about the reputation of your persona.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
|
Neesa Corrinne
Dark Destiny Inc.
Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Quote me where I'm wrong please. I read the whole post and what I said is factually true. Multiple accounts is a complete and total workaround for what you are talking about.
Please have completely thought out ideas before hitting the post button.
From the first line:
Originally by: Synapse Archae
...,or the account is owned by the same player?
Post #14 is entirely about elaborating on that point. Like I said, please read my posts first.
You quite and very specifically said to read the entire post first. I did. I read the entirety of your first post.
Now if you wanted to me to read the entire thread first, then maybe you should have said that, but to be honest, I couldn't be arsed to care what other people have to say about a bad idea in the first place so I never made it past your first post in the thread.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:28:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 09/09/2008 05:30:24
I don't know how much more direct I can be. There was a basic addressing of multiple accounts on the first line of the first post. If you want to discuss, then you'd better be up to date. If you don't want to discuss, then don't post. It's that simple. You're wasting both of our time here.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 09/09/2008 03:09:30
What if you could search an any character, deleted or not, and find all characters past and present who are either on the same account, or the account is owned by the same player?
[...]
What does the forum think? Discuss.
Not possible since you can pay with GTCs, use multiple e-mail addresses and CCP cannot reliably determine a common owner of the accounts due to multiple/dynamic IP addresses and people using multiple PCs etc. It will just add a false sense of trust when people successfully circumvent it.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:46:00 -
[26]
GTCs would be something to be fixed, they would have to be changed a little to have this system.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
I don't think having to stick with a single character would drag your conscience into it any more than the current mechanics do. It's still a personality entirely separate from your own. The difference would be that you'd have to take more long term consideration about the reputation of your persona.
I value my reputation on this character. Sure, I'm seen as something of an arrogant know-it-all, but that's right along with my character.
But I have many characters over many accounts, and not all of them are the same. Some COULDN'T be, if players could backtrack my 'main' easily.
I understand the issue your trying to address. I'm just not sure if it's good for the game.
But, some systems you might want to look into for comparison. Like, Tabula Rasa's geneology system. Or LOTRO ancestor or family line or whatever that was.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Karanth
Gallente
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.09.09 06:33:00 -
[28]
This member of the forums says GET OUT.
How can this even be considered a reasonable idea in Paranoia EVE Online? It is simple to circumvent, a waste of time for negligible benefit to only a few, and will result in mass account cancellations.
And If I hear one more "argument" about how if I have nothing to hide, I shouldn't worry, I'll blow a forehead vein. There is no merit to such a foolish position, and the mere fact I need to give my privacy up "just in case" means that I am now forced to utilize trivially simple workarounds for a stupid idea that shouldn't be implemented to begin with.
If what I or any character of mine does doesn't violate the EULA, you have no place to complain. If it does, file a petition, and let the GMs deal with it. Either way, your "right to know" ends right where my right to privacy begins.
tl;dr: GET OUT.
---
Wheel of Whineage |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.09.09 06:37:00 -
[29]
This is an RPG ... means you should be able to play a role, ANY role you like. Why does that have to be identifiable to the person behind the keyboard?
I see no reason nor logic behind your suggestion.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.09 06:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 09/09/2008 05:47:46
What if you could search an any character, deleted or not, and find all characters past and present who are either on the same account, or the account is owned by the same player? GTCs are the obvious way around this, but adding some identifier to GTCs wouldn't be that hard. A requirement to provide your name or your mailing address perhaps.
The player's real name or any RL information would not be shown, obviously, but all characters you control or have controlled would be permanently logged and shown as one linked group.
Some interesting benefits:
1. Spies have to actually go BE in the enemy alliance/corp instead of just using an alt. Raises the value and risk, and arguably the fun, of being a spy.
2. The end of alt-forum posting (yay)
3. Scammers would have to hide from or deal with the resulting reputation.
4. Enough trust could be built to support real banking and stocks.
Honestly I see very little bad that could come from it.
What does the forum think? Discuss.
Fine by me.
My characters are:
Main Alt
Malcanis (Scoutart)
Pheusia (Vr0ngar)
Bossy Lady (Iscynokka)
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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