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murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:22:00 -
[1]
Marauders are supposed to be the best at running missions. They need a little footnote next to the ship description: "Marauders are great at running missions in *high security space*.
If you're not some whiney carebear and try to use a Marauder in lowsec/0.0 to run missions with, you're in for a surprise. Due to their god awful sensor strength in conjunction with their huge signature radius they are extremely easy to probe out and the end result is that you're dead within 30-60 seconds of warping in to your mission if they pirates know what they're doing with a probe launcher.
Marauders need at least double their current sensor strength, if not triple. How are they supposed to operate 'a long way from their base of operations' if they keep getting probed out in under a minute while running a mission?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:25:00 -
[2]
Heavily pre-nerfed, never buffed content.
CCP's specialty.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:26:00 -
[3]
Try pulling in your drones.
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murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:38:00 -
[5]
Been saying this for ages, mauraders sensor strength is basically ridiculous, it should be around 50, bs's sensor strength which is already too low is around 20-25, carriers around 75.
A maurader is a costly ship both in terms of isk and skills, if used in pvp then it will become a primary target for ecm, to combat this it should have a relatively high sensor strength.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
The Cosa Nostra
La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Quoting for epic.
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Spenz
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Drones are the issue. Why? That is what the pirates are probing out. CCP made it very very hard to probe out someone in a complex. However, they did nothing about the drones. So in turn, pirates always probe for someones drones, not for their ship.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
bnogo
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Drones are the issue. Why? That is what the pirates are probing out. CCP made it very very hard to probe out someone in a complex. However, they did nothing about the drones. So in turn, pirates always probe for someones drones, not for their ship.
as someone who has probed people down in missions, drones rock, but even missions can be probed down relatively easy. but ultimately, i would bet its the drones that are allowing you to get scanned out that quick.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:15:00 -
[9]
ccp already said they will not make marauders good at pvp. So, that means bad sensor strength, to purposely dissuade people from using them in pvp.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Drones are the issue. Why? That is what the pirates are probing out. CCP made it very very hard to probe out someone in a complex. However, they did nothing about the drones. So in turn, pirates always probe for someones drones, not for their ship.
Murder one is a pirate and a expert in probing people in low sec. He know his stuff, so if he think that a Marauder is too easy to probe, you can be pretty sure that it is too easy to probe.
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Kenneth McCoy
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:29:00 -
[11]
*Shrug*
I mission with my Kronos in lowsec all the time.
And as far as PVP goes, ECCM works wonders.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:35:00 -
[12]
Give them higher sensor strength and they dont have any disadvantages compared to normal BS, except their price. I doubt CCP would do something stupid like that.
Double their sensor strength and it takes 60-120 seconds to probe them down (roughly). Sounds like a big difference...
Doing missions in low sec is a bad idea anyway, doing them in a t2 battleship is just stupid unless you are sure there wont come pirates in system.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.09.13 21:24:00 -
[13]
Just because he say he cares about mission runners doesn't mean he doesn't just want to be harder to jam in PvP....
--
I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.09.13 22:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Drones are the issue. Why? That is what the pirates are probing out. CCP made it very very hard to probe out someone in a complex. However, they did nothing about the drones. So in turn, pirates always probe for someones drones, not for their ship.
You are pretty clueless. I won't even bother explaining. It's not worth feeding a carebear any helpful tidbit, they will simply latch onto you and never let go.
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Armoured C
Gallente
The Aztecs
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.09.13 23:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
they are in drone space
and pew pewing them 
remember carebears arnt people they are flying pinyata's
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.13 23:09:00 -
[16]
Own a marauder? Check
Build Marauders? Check
Would never take it out of high-sec? Check
Question in my mind is, why would I? It's obviously (very obviously) intended just as murder says it is. It's a T2 ship for those who've been flying a CNR forever and now want something else to brag about. End of story.
Can you take it out of high-sec? Sure. Can you PvP with it? Sure. Can you cost justify doing either based on what it costs and how much better it would be than something that cost a fifth as much? I don't see it.
Yeah, I could put an ECCM on it and get a Halo set and be pretty uber, for a very big price tag. That's swimming up stream, IMO.
Use it for what it's intended for, which is grinding high-sec missions. Oh, and buy yours in Lonetrek. The ones they sell up there are better. 
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Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
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Posted - 2008.09.13 23:21:00 -
[17]
What CCP and many players ignore is that low sensor stregth gets involved in Gurista missions where you are perma jammed with such a low sensor stregth.
Of cours now i ll get many replies suggesting that the jamming in missions is chance based but practice has proved to me that for some strange reason ECCM really works.
So the low sensor stregth gets you in trouble. I think it should be at least equal to that of a Tier 3 BS |
fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.13 23:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: fairimear on 13/09/2008 23:28:54
HAHA not just marauders mate.
The scorpion for example;
"The few that have been built are but prototypes"
"not much is know about its ability's"
or some such.
There are several like it.
Descriptions never fit game play or RP.
Would be good if they stopped making EVE chronicles for a month and put the writers to work on some interesting and (shock and horror) relevant ship descriptions.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
masternerdguy
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Posted - 2008.09.14 02:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Reptzo
ccp already said they will not make marauders good at pvp. So, that means bad sensor strength, to purposely dissuade people from using them in pvp.
but the description says they are pvp ships! "exactly the ship for going on extended trips behind enemy lines."
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.14 02:28:00 -
[20]
they would make excellent pvp ship with a logstics information warfare backup. 4 cannons with overheat and 3 heat sinks between the and 4 and of course half heat gain of a normal 8 gun ship that would cook its guns off in 2 vollies.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.09.14 02:30:00 -
[21]
Plenty of Golems in minnie and gallente space. That behind enemy lines enough for ya?
Also, not all marauders are PvE godlings. Take the Vargur, for example. Sad little thing, that one. Not that great for PvE, awful for PvP. I have no idea why people build them and even less idea why people BUY them.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.14 02:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Plenty of Golems in minnie and gallente space. That behind enemy lines enough for ya?
Also, not all marauders are PvE godlings. Take the Vargur, for example. Sad little thing, that one. Not that great for PvE, awful for PvP. I have no idea why people build them and even less idea why people BUY them.
Resell when boost comes.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.09.14 02:38:00 -
[23]
IMA GUN SHOOT U WITH MAH MUFFINAUDER!!!
T2 BS < Faction BS
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.09.14 03:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reptzo
ccp already said they will not make marauders good at pvp.
Where? Link or reference please?
Originally by: Furb Killer
Give them higher sensor strength and they dont have any disadvantages compared to normal BS, except their price. I doubt CCP would do something stupid like that.
Sorry, how is that "stupid"? They are more expensive, they are T2, why wouldn't we expect them to be better?
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.14 03:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zaran Darkstar
What CCP and many players ignore is that low sensor stregth gets involved in Gurista missions where you are perma jammed with such a low sensor stregth.
Of cours now i ll get many replies suggesting that the jamming in missions is chance based but practice has proved to me that for some strange reason ECCM really works.
Just use a Golem vs. Guristas like you're supposed to and load fofs... Problem solved.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Zo5o
Gallente
Longcat is Long
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Posted - 2008.09.14 04:36:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Of cours now i ll get many replies suggesting that the jamming in missions is chance based
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619821&page=2#49
The dev there isn't suggesting it, he's stating it as fact.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.09.14 04:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zo5o
Quote:
Of cours now i ll get many replies suggesting that the jamming in missions is chance based
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619821&page=2#49
The dev there isn't suggesting it, he's stating it as fact.
Suggestion: try it.
Steps for the lazy.
1 Buy abiddon.
2 tank to hell and back with 7 lows and 3 rigs.
3 Fit 4 eccm in mids.
4 Go to guristas gay jamming mission (any of them work)
5 Sit there for a while and see how many jamms you take.
6 Turn on all 4 eccm.
7 repeat 5
8 Whine on forums how the devs lied to us (optional)
*disclaimer* ive not actually done this, i have better things to do with my time. HOWEVER, I note that I get a lot less shooting time in my pally than my abby against guristas... Might be my imagination, but hey, never hurts to test.
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Akita T
yawn
I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.14 04:50:00 -
[28]
just about everything is too easy to probe 
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.14 04:57:00 -
[29]
So CCP makes the ultimate mission ship, and people complain that it's too easy to probe out and engage in non-consensual PvP. Figures.
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.09.14 06:41:00 -
[30]
I too support Marauder sensor strength boost.... so it's harder to probe.... yes that's it... :) |
Maaku
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.09.14 08:25:00 -
[31]
CCP deliberately gave Marauders a low sensor strength to inhibit their use in PVP.
If they decided that they were indeed too easy to probe down, their logical recourse would be to give the Marauder a special bonus so that it would be (at least) no easier to probe down than its T1 counterpart.
Problem solved without taking away the Marauder's weakness. I still wouldn't take one into lowsec, though.
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.09.14 10:32:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zaran Darkstar
What CCP and many players ignore is that low sensor stregth gets involved in Gurista missions where you are perma jammed with such a low sensor stregth.
Of cours now i ll get many replies suggesting that the jamming in missions is chance based but practice has proved to me that for some strange reason ECCM really works.
So the low sensor stregth gets you in trouble. I think it should be at least equal to that of a Tier 3 BS
It is chance based, CCP has said it is chance based. For shits and giggles I took a Gurista mission and killed everything except the jammers then left, came back with 4x ECCM - Gravimetric IIs for a sensor strength of over 150 from memory and got jammed as much as I did with base sensor strength.
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.09.14 10:50:00 -
[33]
Marauders are fairly good as PvP ships, it would get used more if it wasn't so expensive. Cost is the only problem with them.
Sensor strength is not the issue, you can fit 1 ECCM which will boost the sensor strength past that of the T1 ship. Raven is 22 SS, Golem + 1x ECCM = 27.4 and it gets an extra mid slot I think.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.14 10:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Reptzo
ccp already said they will not make marauders good at pvp. So, that means bad sensor strength, to purposely dissuade people from using them in pvp.
proof pls
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.09.14 11:29:00 -
[35]
Marauders aint even that much better than a BS for PVP. THe Paladin, for instance, is worse than an Abaddon.
The sensor strength makes no sense at all.
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fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.14 11:38:00 -
[36]
Marauders should get a sensor strength buff.
Who cares if they get used for pvp and become the wtf pwn mobiles.
ATM they are used 99.99999% of the time for mission running in empire.
And of the marauders used the GOLEM is the mainstay.
A entire class OF ADVANCED BATTLESHIP's in All but entirely safe space.
Its bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!
Keep prices at 500mill, buff sensor strength = balanced for pvp.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 11:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Give them higher sensor strength and they dont have any disadvantages compared to normal BS, except their price. I doubt CCP would do something stupid like that.
Double their sensor strength and it takes 60-120 seconds to probe them down (roughly). Sounds like a big difference...
Doing missions in low sec is a bad idea anyway, doing them in a t2 battleship is just stupid unless you are sure there wont come pirates in system.
b..b..but that's what the piwats told us to do!
Whhaaaaa!
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.09.14 12:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Redback911
Marauders aint even that much better than a BS for PVP. THe Paladin, for instance, is worse than an Abaddon.
The sensor strength makes no sense at all.
Yeah, they are a very risky investment for small gang pvp, and a massive waste of money for larger gang pvp.
There isn't that much in it as you say. Abaddon only has much noticably worse capacitor but you have an extra rig slot and cap charge boosters and massive plate endurance tank ftw anyway! :D
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Tasuk
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Posted - 2008.09.14 12:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
just about everything is too easy to probe
this ^
... not that i am complaining about it though
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murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:01:00 -
[40]
I don't see massive fleets of Marauders roaming around wrecking people and terrorizing the galaxy. Very few people, if any at all, use them for PVP, and even when they do the low sensor strength isn't an issue. The sensor strength of marauders has nothing to do with how viable they are for PVP. If CCP didn't want them to be used in PVP they should just remove their guns/launchers.
The low sensor strength only hurts the ships in PVE vs. ECM rats and the original point of the thread which is being disproportionately easy to probe out while flying missions in lowsec/0.0. Marauder pilots who have the balls to run missions with them in lowsec should at least have the same measure of security as a regular T1 BS pilot. And fitting ECCM doesn't help much at all, because the base sensor strength is so low in the first place adding one or two 96% ECCM doesn't add much when compared to applying the same modules to a normal T1 BS with normal sensor strength.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 22:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
Drones are the issue. Why? That is what the pirates are probing out. CCP made it very very hard to probe out someone in a complex. However, they did nothing about the drones. So in turn, pirates always probe for someones drones, not for their ship.
Murder one is a pirate and a expert in probing people in low sec. He know his stuff, so if he think that a Marauder is too easy to probe, you can be pretty sure that it is too easy to probe.
Thanks Venkul. ^-^
@ Spenz: I know what I'm doing. No, drones are not the issue. Yes, I'm well aware of the mechanics concerning probing out drones instead of the target ship itself.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Akita T
Heavily pre-nerfed, never buffed content.
CCP's specialty.
Truth.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:17:00 -
[43]
Originally by: murder one
Marauder pilots who have the balls to run missions with them in lowsec should at least have the same measure of security as a regular T1 BS pilot.
Marauder is a better mission ship. Better mission ship means more ISK/hour, or in other words more reward. More reward = more inherent risk should be involved.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: murder one
Marauder pilots who have the balls to run missions with them in lowsec should at least have the same measure of security as a regular T1 BS pilot.
Marauder is a better mission ship. Better mission ship means more ISK/hour, or in other words more reward. More reward = more inherent risk should be involved.
More risk is involved: same risk of death, but bigger risk of losing ISK, because you paid 8x the cost for the ship. Its also more risky because its a nice shiny kb icon, so people like me will more actively and persistantly hunt it.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Breaker77
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:51:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 14/09/2008 22:51:02
Originally by: masternerdguy
but the description says they are pvp ships! "exactly the ship for going on extended trips behind enemy lines."
"exactly the ship for going on extended trips behind enemy lines" =/= "this is a PvP ship"
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.14 23:11:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Give them higher sensor strength and they dont have any disadvantages compared to normal BS, except their price
You're forgetting the extra month or two it takes to get itno one.
Like others have said probably: It's the usual Pre-nerfed to hell and forgotten.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.09.14 23:31:00 -
[47]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
You sir, no nothing about probing then.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 23:39:00 -
[48]
Actually, marauders are JUST FINE.
What the OP needs to invest in is some skill, because getting caught with your pants down by an enemy scout is laughable, esp. when you're in a ship that is worth that amount.
If you cant keep local open and watch the intell channels, maybe you should just fit a stab to your maruader, and buy yourself an extra minute to ignore the red in system.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
RaWBLooD
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 00:09:00 -
[49]
They were made to be for mission running. A boost would be against that original purpose.
miners-you can: switch, rob, wardec, nerf, scam them, buy below market, pirate them on their way to sell. mining < trading, ratting, manufacturing from market bought minerals,they still wont go away |
murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 00:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Schalac
Try pulling in your drones.
Drones arn't the issue here genious.
You sir, no nothing about probing then.
I know quite a bit about probing, in fact.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 00:11:00 -
[51]
Can an experienced manufacturer answer me this: just how low of a price might we eventually see Marauders drop to? What is the minimal potential price where the makers could still turn a marginal profit?
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murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
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Posted - 2008.09.15 00:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Actually, marauders are JUST FINE.
What the OP needs to invest in is some skill, because getting caught with your pants down by an enemy scout is laughable, esp. when you're in a ship that is worth that amount.
If you cant keep local open and watch the intell channels, maybe you should just fit a stab to your maruader, and buy yourself an extra minute to ignore the red in system.
Who said anything about ever being caught?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
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