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Ttocs Draw	Posted - 2008.09.14 09:06:00 - [1] Looking for competitive players and investors who want to harness the power of teamwork and scale to make their ISK and corporation value grow. This is a business venture with the goal of making ISK. We will be using and adapting a proven and highly successful business model. I have been playing for about a year and half and I probably average an hour of eve time a day. My current worth is about 10B and I will be investing 4.5B of my own money in the Tactical Trading Partnership (TacTP). We will be improving on and expanding my current highly successful, proven and very low risk business plan. I've grown as large as I can as a one man business and now I'm looking to expand. We are accepting applications for members and investors. The IPO is for 1000 shares. Investors may purchase shares for 10,000,000 ISK. Members may buy in for 9,000,000 ISK per share. We are looking for serious 1. Industrialists. 2. Traders. 3. Industrial and freighter pilots. 4. Miners and refiners. 5. PvP'ers for protection and ratting for salvage. of all experience levels. All member expenses and losses will be covered while working on corp business. Members must own at least one share. Shareholders may sell back to the corp their shares at any time -- give one month for liquidation. 1 share value = net corporate value including assets / total shares outstanding. As shares are sold back to the corp the remaining shareholder's value increases. The funds raised in the IPO will be used to start up the corp and all profits will be reinvested in the corp, exponentially growing its value. The exact business model is a company secret of course. Member and shareholder input and involvement is highly encouraged. Members and shareholders can be involved as little or as much as they like. Corporate offices will be filled based on shares owned, time in corp and interests and skills. The corporate headquarters is Yulia in Genesis and will operate over many regions. The corporate mission is to make as much ISK as possible, as efficiently as possible, while having as much fun as possible. Our corporate emblem "The Golden Eye" represents knowledge and power. We win because we play smarter. CEO and Founder Ttocs Draw Feel free to evemail me with any questions.
Caste Ling	Posted - 2008.09.14 09:17:00 - [2] Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:28:18 Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:19:06 Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:18:35 This may be just me, but when I look at an offering on this forum I expect the company to be ready to act with the isk right away - I do not expect them to be recruiting for members within the same post as they are asking for isk. I think giving a little idea of what your business plan is would be necessary; you hint at it via the types roles you're looking for in recruitable pilots, but that just looks like an average 'bla we're recruiting everybody' corp recruitment blurb. I read the post and felt like I didn't get any new information about anything. Focus it up a bit more? -- Also, do not sell more than half of your shares to the public (you likely already know this, but I just gotta check), you are offering 1000 shares, make sure you retain over 50% or someone could buy up all the shares from the individual shareholders and take over your corp. -- Same post?
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.14 09:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Caste Ling -- Also, do not sell more than half of your shares to the public (you likely already know this, but I just gotta check), you are offering 1000 shares, make sure you retain over 50% or someone could buy up all the shares from the individual shareholders and take over your corp. Only a director can start such a vote. You can give away 100% of a corps shares, but unless a director kicks of the "vote for a new ceo" vote, nothing will happen. --
Neidhardt Foster Sternenschauer AG	Posted - 2008.09.14 10:52:00 - [4] I have a few questions concerning the organisation of this IPO. Is anyone that contributes something to this IPO, as Trader/Hauler/whatever, required to join the corp? Will it be possible to maintain own business while working with you, or are members required to perform all their actions for your IPO? Do you plan (and possibly allready have) some sort of internal Toolsupport for you operations or is everything going to be microed by a collection of players? How are you going to establish the trust, needed for such a business to work, between the members? I like the general idea of working together and thus get more of it than the sum of the invested work and knowledge. However I'm still at a loss how this could work out for a small amount of persons I trust and am therefore very skeptical at an idea of your scale. Nevertheless I'm interested and Genesis is close enough.
Auri Hella Downwind Trading Guild	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:28:00 - [5] Same post again? This 'offering' to me seems like nothing but a standard recruitment blurb with the added spice of asking for a few billions. Meh.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.09.14 14:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Caste Ling -- Also, do not sell more than half of your shares to the public (you likely already know this, but I just gotta check), you are offering 1000 shares, make sure you retain over 50% or someone could buy up all the shares from the individual shareholders and take over your corp. Only a director can start such a vote. You can give away 100% of a corps shares, but unless a director kicks of the "vote for a new ceo" vote, nothing will happen. you can run for ceo outside of the corp if you have enough shares and it does not even need to be half of all Trashed sig, Shark was here
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.14 16:31:00 - [7] Originally by: SiJira you can run for ceo outside of the corp if you have enough shares and it does not even need to be half of all How sure are you of this. I was fairly certain this wasn't possible unless something has changed.
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Ttocs Draw expanding my current highly successful, proven and very low risk business plan. I've grown as large as I can as a one man business and now I'm looking to expand. Originally by: Ttocs Draw All member expenses and losses will be covered while working on corp business. Originally by: Ttocs Draw The exact business model is a company secret of course. Member and shareholder input and involvement is highly encouraged. Members and shareholders can be involved as little or as much as they like. Corporate offices will be filled based on shares owned, time in corp and interests and skills. Originally by: Ttocs Draw The corporate mission is to make as much ISK as possible, as efficiently as possible, while having as much fun as possible. Quote: Our corporate emblem "The Golden Eye" represents knowledge and power. We win because we play smarter. Hmm. The sad part is the emblem and motto are almost exactly like the concept I picked for LDD Investments. Not sure what that says. Anyhow, seeing as all this is about what you would get out of an infomercial, MLM scheme, or other shady business, I don't see why it matters what 'protections' are offered. A lot of window dressing and no reason to trust any of it. It might be legit but who can and can't be CEO won't protect you if things go south. - Lexander Morinex
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Ttocs Draw The exact business model is a company secret of course. If I'll invest or not is a secret as well. Maybe if you tell me your secret I'll tell you mine! Secrets when asking for money on this forum are a surefire way to get lots and lots of money!
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Shadarle Secrets when asking for money on this forum are a surefire way to get lots and lots of money! Shad, don't give away our secret! Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:14:00 - [11] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 14/09/2008 19:14:48 Originally by: Ttocs Draw We will be using and adapting a proven and highly successful business model. Marketing drivel, as is the entire post. You haven't said anything about yourself that would make me want to join in. A series of questions that have popped into my head: Who are you? Why "Ttocs"? What's it stand for as I see a number of people with that name. Why are you "draw"? This is just the first of many questions that have come to mind. The who are you is truly my first sticking point though. Not everyone is trustworthy as a CEO or competent as a leader. Adding in IPO manager... it is a very pertinent question. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 03:51:00 - [12] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 15/09/2008 03:56:03 Originally by: Neidhardt Foster I have a few questions concerning the organisation of this IPO. Is anyone that contributes something to this IPO, as Trader/Hauler/whatever, required to join the corp? Will it be possible to maintain own business while working with you, or are members required to perform all their actions for your IPO? Do you plan (and possibly allready have) some sort of internal Toolsupport for you operations or is everything going to be microed by a collection of players? How are you going to establish the trust, needed for such a business to work, between the members? I like the general idea of working together and thus get more of it than the sum of the invested work and knowledge. However I'm still at a loss how this could work out for a small amount of persons I trust and am therefore very skeptical at an idea of your scale. Nevertheless I'm interested and Genesis is close enough. 1. Member/shareholders will do the "work" of the corp and shareholders will be active to silent investors. We'll looking for that good deal and expanding into different markets so investor tips and advice will be highly valuable. I expect that we will form business relationships with investor corps (supply ships, mods and ammo to an investor's PvP corp at a mutually agreeable price for example.) I also imagine trusted non-member shareholders will do specific jobs (pick up and deliver an Obelisk BPC for another example.) 2. So you can join the corp and buy in or just buy in. 3. I use EVETycoon and a spread sheet of my own design to keep track of the profit margins. We will be using an expanded version of my current business plan. It is almost impossible to loose ISK on minerals and salvage which is bought at half the price it sells for at Jita. My profit margins range from 10% to 500% without too much effort. I hesitate to get into too much detail since it really is pretty simple. 4. Access to company ISK and assets will be based on shares owned and time in corp, and therefore a player will be essentially bonded. I'm not going to let you drive the Obelisk unless u've been in a long time or you have a Billion or more invested. 5. A board of trustees will have to formed to ensure MY honesty. Books will be audited, spread sheets will be posted. 6. This business plan works great with one member playing one hour a day. Over time I have moved into increasing expensive trade goods. It has gotten so that I can't move around 10B all by myself. I generate more ISK then I can spend. I buy expensive ships and get them blown up for fun because I dont know what I'm doing and I've got nothing else to do with all my ISK. I've topped out. Its time to scale up. I'm essentially giving anyone the opportunity to hop on my gravy train in whatever capacity you would like.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:07:00 - [13] Okay, at this point I'm uninterested. Alot of marketing hype but no substance. Invest Now, 10% to 500% returns Secret to success, just send money first I'm not greedy, come share in my wealth The other phrase that comes to mind: To good to be true. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Caste Ling Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:28:18 Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:19:06 Edited by: Caste Ling on 14/09/2008 09:18:35 This may be just me, but when I look at an offering on this forum I expect the company to be ready to act with the isk right away - I do not expect them to be recruiting for members within the same post as they are asking for isk. I think giving a little idea of what your business plan is would be necessary; you hint at it via the types roles you're looking for in recruitable pilots, but that just looks like an average 'bla we're recruiting everybody' corp recruitment blurb. I read the post and felt like I didn't get any new information about anything. Focus it up a bit more? -- Also, do not sell more than half of your shares to the public (you likely already know this, but I just gotta check), you are offering 1000 shares, make sure you retain over 50% or someone could buy up all the shares from the individual shareholders and take over your corp. -- Same post? Thanks for the post and I appreciate your criticism. I will be purchasing 51% of the shares. I will be putting down 4.5B. Thats 501 shares x 9,000,000 is 4.5B. I don't really NEED any investors or members, but I thought it would be fun. This plan works fine with one member and zero investors, the only limit on my profits at this point is time. With more members I can expand, exact same business just an increment bigger. Members leave or investors sell back, exact same business just an increment smaller. I have anywhere from 1 to 7 B on the market at any given time as it is. No real difference only I'll be collaborating with cool people. How do I know they will be cool? Cuz I'm the CEO and I get to pick them. A*holes need not apply. As for specifics, its already all there. Wuts to know? I'm based in Yulai, Genesis region, thats high sec (although I do run into 0.0 if the price is right.) I make stuff. Anything. If the profit margin drops off, I stop makin it. I buy stuff. If its cheap and I know I can sell it for more, I buy it. If its expensive and I cant sell it, I dont buy it. Is it that I dont have a link to some bullsht "prospectus" thats bothering you? lol. To tell you exactly what I am buying and where I am buying it could destroy my business. Although your desire for more specifics is very understandable and more will be forthcoming -- mainly about corporate structure though.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Shar Tegral Edited by: Shar Tegral on 14/09/2008 19:14:48 Originally by: Ttocs Draw We will be using and adapting a proven and highly successful business model. Marketing drivel, as is the entire post. You haven't said anything about yourself that would make me want to join in. A series of questions that have popped into my head: Who are you? Why "Ttocs"? What's it stand for as I see a number of people with that name. Why are you "draw"? This is just the first of many questions that have come to mind. The who are you is truly my first sticking point though. Not everyone is trustworthy as a CEO or competent as a leader. Adding in IPO manager... it is a very pertinent question. yes who am I is a very good question. Ttocs Draw.. Ttocs Draw.. think about it. Why so many Ttocs you ask. How about ttocS? Got it now? I'm 35 and my name is Scott. I live in Seattle, USA. I have degree in Cellular and molecular biology. I work in healthcare. Lots of whining about details. It really ain't all that complicated. Anyone with any interest feel free to post an actual question I can answer for you or send me and evemail. Or just keep whining.. whatever.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Shar Tegral Okay, at this point I'm uninterested. Alot of marketing hype but no substance. Invest Now, 10% to 500% returns Secret to success, just send money first I'm not greedy, come share in my wealth The other phrase that comes to mind: To good to be true. heres a good example of whining. yes keep it up. whine, bump. whine, bump. Im wondering what you do with your ISK if you think trading for 10 to 500 % is so shocking. You must be a miner.. I agree that security is the biggest problem. A board of trustees will be formed before any ISK is accepted. I will post excerpts of my current books in the near future.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:02:00 - [17] Perhaps you should put these "no details" complaints to rest once and for all by putting togeather an informational packet detailing your proven isk making methods to distribute to your investors. Just to be sure that this is not a scam if they are still in doubt offer a full isk back guarantee within 30 days if they are not satisfied with the business.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Enihcam Xes Perhaps you should put these "no details" complaints to rest once and for all by putting togeather an informational packet detailing your proven isk making methods to distribute to your investors. Just to be sure that this is not a scam if they are still in doubt offer a full isk back guarantee within 30 days if they are not satisfied with the business. yes good idea. i will.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Ttocs Rox I'm 35 and my name is Scott. I live in Seattle, USA. I have degree in Cellular and molecular biology. I work in healthcare. Well, even healthcare needs janitors. Myself, I'm a bit familiar with HPLC and other assays so feel free to try out my molecular biology knowledge. Of course being in health care you don't understand GMP. Which is probably why you've topped out at health care janitor instead of pharma/biotech. What my post was about was totally about GMP. And you sir have fulfilled the second scam-like behavior, ridiculing someone with doubts. How many more scam like behaviors will we be seeing from you? 3? 4? But please feel free to call me a miner. I'm proud of the ore I've dug. I'm also proud of the ammo, ships, guns, carriers, faction towers, that I've built. I'm also proud of firing those guns, shooting those ships and carriers, and popping towers as well. I've also handled more isk than you will likely ever do so in game. Ever. So, please, refrain from whining about my whining. My e-peen is much larger, and longer, than yours. PS: Also you are cute for a youngin. Shame you can't be me when you grow up. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Originally by: Shar Tegral Okay, at this point I'm uninterested. Alot of marketing hype but no substance. Invest Now, 10% to 500% returns Secret to success, just send money first I'm not greedy, come share in my wealth The other phrase that comes to mind: To good to be true. heres a good example of whining. yes keep it up. whine, bump. whine, bump. Im wondering what you do with your ISK if you think trading for 10 to 500 % is so shocking. You must be a miner.. I agree that security is the biggest problem. A board of trustees will be formed before any ISK is accepted. I will post excerpts of my current books in the near future. Oops. This post of yours was a big mistake. It shows you have no clue what you are getting yourself into. You haven't done even elementary research into the IPO market. How do I know this? Because you don't know who Shar is and because you're making many of the same mistakes most failed IPO's make. Calling someone a whiner who is asking you questions is quite odd behavior. You're hear asking people to give you money in return for a guarantee you will pay them back in the future. All they have is your word, thus they must trust you. Yet you're attacking the people who are actually taking time to ask for more information. Not very smart from a business perspective. You see, we see this same thing happen over and over again. You are not the first to come here asking for money and you won't be the last. I've read probably 100 different threads such as this. They are all remarkably similar. It's very easy to pick out the good investments from the bad ones when you have read that many. It's all about the person. How they handle themselves. If they start insulting people or attacking those who raise concerns then it's a major warning sign. You've already ruined your chances to get me as an investor with your current behavior, but others here aren't quite as tough to please, so perhaps if you were to shape up now and change your tack you'd still have a chance with some. I wouldn't bet much on it though.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ttocs Rox I'm 35 and my name is Scott. I live in Seattle, USA. I have degree in Cellular and molecular biology. I work in healthcare. Well, even healthcare needs janitors. Myself, I'm a bit familiar with HPLC and other assays so feel free to try out my molecular biology knowledge. Of course being in health care you don't understand GMP. Which is probably why you've topped out at health care janitor instead of pharma/biotech. What my post was about was totally about GMP. And you sir have fulfilled the second scam-like behavior, ridiculing someone with doubts. How many more scam like behaviors will we be seeing from you? 3? 4? But please feel free to call me a miner. I'm proud of the ore I've dug. I'm also proud of the ammo, ships, guns, carriers, faction towers, that I've built. I'm also proud of firing those guns, shooting those ships and carriers, and popping towers as well. I've also handled more isk than you will likely ever do so in game. Ever. So, please, refrain from whining about my whining. My e-peen is much larger, and longer, than yours. PS: Also you are cute for a youngin. Shame you can't be me when you grow up. I'm the skeptics skeptic so I like where your coming from and I don't mind shoring up any holes in my plan that you point out, but your not giving me much to work with here. Just a lot of bullsht. I'm a janitor? Ok. I guess I could go to the minimal trouble of googling the two random acronyms you put up but I dont really give a sht. :) bumpy bump bump. keep it up.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Im wondering what you do with your ISK if you think trading for 10 to 500 % is so shocking. You must be a miner.. Oh & BTW Genius, I said hype, not shock. It is easy to make 500% profit on small ammo. And easy to make 10% profit on a cruiser. You just toss out numbers (attractive numbers) with absolutely no context of any kind. Thus I call you on your bs mate. There is secrecy and then there is empty phrases that mean absolutely nothing but sure is shiny. A common concept here at the MD that perhaps you should learn; "No matter how much you shine a turd, or give it a degree, it is still a turd." To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Ttocs Rox Originally by: Shar Tegral Okay, at this point I'm uninterested. Alot of marketing hype but no substance. Invest Now, 10% to 500% returns Secret to success, just send money first I'm not greedy, come share in my wealth The other phrase that comes to mind: To good to be true. heres a good example of whining. yes keep it up. whine, bump. whine, bump. Im wondering what you do with your ISK if you think trading for 10 to 500 % is so shocking. You must be a miner.. I agree that security is the biggest problem. A board of trustees will be formed before any ISK is accepted. I will post excerpts of my current books in the near future. Oops. This post of yours was a big mistake. It shows you have no clue what you are getting yourself into. You haven't done even elementary research into the IPO market. How do I know this? Because you don't know who Shar is and because you're making many of the same mistakes most failed IPO's make. Calling someone a whiner who is asking you questions is quite odd behavior. You're hear asking people to give you money in return for a guarantee you will pay them back in the future. All they have is your word, thus they must trust you. Yet you're attacking the people who are actually taking time to ask for more information. Not very smart from a business perspective. You see, we see this same thing happen over and over again. You are not the first to come here asking for money and you won't be the last. I've read probably 100 different threads such as this. They are all remarkably similar. It's very easy to pick out the good investments from the bad ones when you have read that many. It's all about the person. How they handle themselves. If they start insulting people or attacking those who raise concerns then it's a major warning sign. You've already ruined your chances to get me as an investor with your current behavior, but others here aren't quite as tough to please, so perhaps if you were to shape up now and change your tack you'd still have a chance with some. I wouldn't bet much on it though. Ive gone to the trouble of writing detailed responses to all questions which were actual questions. The above is not a question or request for more information, its crap. Its called flaming. Standard baloney. Every forums got 'em.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Ttocs Rox I'm a janitor? Ok. I guess I could go to the minimal trouble of googling the two random acronyms you put up but I dont really give a sht. :) bumpy bump bump. keep it up. Wow, you don't know High Pressure Liquid Chromatography? I mean GMP is understandable that you don't know sense at best you are a lab tech in a hospital, don't get to practice those degrees much pouring some persons stool from one place to another, but I'd expect you'd try to keep up on technology pertinent to a molecular biologist. Mind you I could ask you collegiate questions but I didn't want to strain you. Originally by:* Ttocs Rox Ive gone to the trouble of writing detailed responses to all questions which were actual questions. The above is not a question or request for more information, its crap. Its called flaming. Standard baloney. Every forums got 'em. You're the budding industrial CEO that tried to insult me as a "miner". Not exactly smart. So yeah, every forum has them, seems you are it mate. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
frank frankenson	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:36:00 - [25] I am an investor/member of Scott's proven isk making plan. Before Scott showed me how to make isk I barely managed to pay my pvp as a miner, but now thanks to Scott I earn 2 billion isk per week part time from my own station! Thanks Scott!
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ttocs Rox Im wondering what you do with your ISK if you think trading for 10 to 500 % is so shocking. You must be a miner.. Oh & BTW Genius, I said hype, not shock. It is easy to make 500% profit on small ammo. And easy to make 10% profit on a cruiser. You just toss out numbers (attractive numbers) with absolutely no context of any kind. Thus I call you on your bs mate. There is secrecy and then there is empty phrases that mean absolutely nothing but sure is shiny. A common concept here at the MD that perhaps you should learn; "No matter how much you shine a turd, or give it a degree, it is still a turd." I answered what I have to guess is your criticism in saying I would form a board of trustees before any ISK traded hands AND I would post my personal books but yet you persist with personal attacks. Now I'm a turd? I only reply for your sake. Mellow. Being an A**hole all the time is no way to go through life. Really.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 05:39:00 - [27] Originally by: frank frankenson I am an investor/member of Scott's proven isk making plan. Before Scott showed me how to make isk I barely managed to pay my pvp as a miner, but now thanks to Scott I earn 2 billion isk per week part time from my own station! Thanks Scott! Now this is trolling. Pure win, but all troll. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:03:00 - [28] /thread --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Ive gone to the trouble of writing detailed responses to all questions which were actual questions. The above is not a question or request for more information, its crap. Its called flaming. Standard baloney. Every forums got 'em. You are free to disregard my post as a flame if that is your choice. I was trying to explain to you why you are getting the responses you're getting. Now I'll cut to the chase. You've never read this forum before, that is clear. This is reason enough for many people here not to give you a single ISK. If you don't have the time or desire to get to know the people here who might invest in you then you're not worth our time either. I question your judgment if you believe anyone would invest in someone they've never seen before that day without anyone coming forward to vouch for that person. There is absolutely no reason to think you won't simply take the money and run the second you get it. So I challenge you right now to stick around this forum for at least a full month, making posts on many different topics. Show us you have at least some commitment and some intelligence in your posts. Or continue along your current path, which will lead to failure. Your choice.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Ttocs Rox Ive gone to the trouble of writing detailed responses to all questions which were actual questions. The above is not a question or request for more information, its crap. Its called flaming. Standard baloney. Every forums got 'em. You are free to disregard my post as a flame if that is your choice. I was trying to explain to you why you are getting the responses you're getting. Now I'll cut to the chase. You've never read this forum before, that is clear. This is reason enough for many people here not to give you a single ISK. If you don't have the time or desire to get to know the people here who might invest in you then you're not worth our time either. I question your judgment if you believe anyone would invest in someone they've never seen before that day without anyone coming forward to vouch for that person. There is absolutely no reason to think you won't simply take the money and run the second you get it. So I challenge you right now to stick around this forum for at least a full month, making posts on many different topics. Show us you have at least some commitment and some intelligence in your posts. Or continue along your current path, which will lead to failure. Your choice. How lucky we all are to have someone like you looking out for us. WTF!.. some real dorks on tonite.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:51:00 - [31] Yet another example of another way (NOT) to ask for money.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 07:04:00 - [32] Screen shot of my last two days in sales. I'm on call this week and have played very little. Runs on auto pilot.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 08:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Screen shot of my last two days in sales. I'm on call this week and have played very little. Runs on auto pilot. I fail to see what this substantiates?? Sales, of course, happen without you being present. And, nice numbers for a weekend but to be honest your activities are from tritanium sales to salvage sales to battleship sales. Again, nice activity, not going to knock you on that. But a system? A scalable system? That still does not substantiate your trustworthiness for an IPO nor does it refute my statement that your "advertising" was exactly that, "advertising". Here at the MD we don't need hyped up market spiels, that's for another area of these forums. Okay, let me explain it another way, perhaps to avoid a lot of conflict that you have built up... when seeking venture capitalism it is a given that a company will put its best foot forward. However the VC is going to what more than a pretty brochure as a prospectus. The other side of the matter is your "board of directors". Trust me I've been on one and I have to wonder if what you are describing is a group of people who will be holding the isk "instead" of you holding it. If you are the one holding the isk, what security does a board of directors provide? Now even though we've gotten off to a bad start, and you may dismiss me as a flamer or dork, the truth is that it is very likely you have looked at all the other sides of your business (like the spreadsheets on your super system) but have not really looked at how to run an ipo or a bigger corporate management situation. I only suggest this as there are, as Shadarle said, holes in your ipo document. I guess the next "valid" question would be, can anyone vouch for you? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 08:42:00 - [34] Oh, and could you change that picture to a link? Breaks the forums something gawd awful and might get a mod on you. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 09:19:00 - [35] Short on cash? Invest in Tactical Trading Partnership using ships, equipment or resources instead of using ISK. If you have something that we need we'll take it in exchange for an agreed upon value in shares. Just off the top of my head, here are some examples. Say your a broke freighter pilot. You join the corp and invest your freighter for say 90 shares. Thats 11% of the corp and 810M in value. The corp now owns the freighter. You continue to fly that very same freighter but now on corp business. And when your flying for the corp u'll not only be 100% insured, you'll have support, intel, scouts and protection. And then 4 months later you decide that you don't want to be in the corp anymore and you want to do something else so you "cash out". I do the calculations and the corp has grown at 10% per month. Fully funded IPO where half the remaining shares are picked up by members and the other half are bought by investors would vest the corp with 9.2B on 1000 shares. After 4 months at 5% compounding interest the corp would be worth 11.5B, at 7% 12.06B and at 10% 13.47B! Lets say 7. Your 90 shares would cash out at 1.33B. That's a 64% return in 4 months. That's best case scenario but not un-doable. The corp sells you back your freighter at a mutually agreeable price and now you are a formerly broke freighter pilot with 510M ISK. This is a great arrangement for the corp. We get use of your skills and freighter. We dont have to spend a bunch of time making it or waiting for it to be built. We make a bunch of money by putting the asset to work. You make a bunch of money with reduced risk to you and your investment into the freighter and its cargo. And maybe we have some fun too when were not rolling around naked in our piles of ISK! Got good researched BPO's just sitting around? Put them to work. Got a bunch of minerals sitting out in some distant galaxy but cant get them to market? Put them to work. A PvP'er who has all is value wrapped up in his ships and mods makes zero ISK all the time of the day and night he is not playing. Trade is different. The vast majority of the entire corp value is working and compounding 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. The difference, it turns out, is huge.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 09:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 15/09/2008 09:48:11 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ttocs Rox Screen shot of my last two days in sales. I'm on call this week and have played very little. Runs on auto pilot. I fail to see what this substantiates?? Sales, of course, happen without you being present. And, nice numbers for a weekend but to be honest your activities are from tritanium sales to salvage sales to battleship sales. Again, nice activity, not going to knock you on that. But a system? A scalable system? That still does not substantiate your trustworthiness for an IPO nor does it refute my statement that your "advertising" was exactly that, "advertising". Here at the MD we don't need hyped up market spiels, that's for another area of these forums. Okay, let me explain it another way, perhaps to avoid a lot of conflict that you have built up... when seeking venture capitalism it is a given that a company will put its best foot forward. However the VC is going to what more than a pretty brochure as a prospectus. The other side of the matter is your "board of directors". Trust me I've been on one and I have to wonder if what you are describing is a group of people who will be holding the isk "instead" of you holding it. If you are the one holding the isk, what security does a board of directors provide? Now even though we've gotten off to a bad start, and you may dismiss me as a flamer or dork, the truth is that it is very likely you have looked at all the other sides of your business (like the spreadsheets on your super system) but have not really looked at how to run an ipo or a bigger corporate management situation. I only suggest this as there are, as Shadarle said, holes in your ipo document. I guess the next "valid" question would be, can anyone vouch for you? 1. It says that I just might have a business that works quiet well and turns out some pretty good numbers and deserves a closer look. 2. The Trust would hold 1001 valueless shares or "matching" shares, however you want to think of it. The Trust holds a majority and can take action if needed. Trustees will be rewarded in shares after a period of service. 3. I'm not absolutely certain it will scale. If it doesn't you can cash out any time you want. We trade in assets, assets have value. It could turn out that we don't make any money, but it would surprise to me if we lost some. If you notice also, I'm not offering any dividends, no bills to pay, nothing to slow the exponential growth. Just Boom City. See now youre makin some good points. I knew you could do it.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Got good researched BPO's just sitting around? Put them to work. I have some hi-sec research POSes and a vast array of BPOs on hand. I'm not about to sign them over to an unknown on trust (as no trust currently exists between us). However, I would consider dispensing a continuous stream of well researched BPCs to you. Any other research services you need can also be provided by my existing operation. Of course this would depend on this idea of yours taking off, which would probably require you to gain the favour of the same people you have already ticked off... so I'd be carefull with how you attempt to progress this idea.
Neidhardt Foster Sternenschauer AG	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:27:00 - [38] Thanks for answering my questions. At the moment I'm not looking for investment opportunities, because I think the best investment I have available is me (in fact I take loans from people that trust me). However I enjoy working with people and making deals that benefit both parts, thats why I'm interested in such an idea. But for now there is only the idea, so far you haven't given a concrete plan how this idea could work. No, I'm not interested in details of your current business, you make money with it and I believe that, no proof needed. Concrete points how such an idea could work are: How are people working for the enterprise rewarded? If only the increase in the shares value is taken, there is no incentive to put work into this. There should be some form of paying for the investment (be it time or money) a member undertakes. The idea of putting together a board of trusted persons to monitor the corp is nice, but who will that persons be? And a lot more, where I don't even know the questions As I said: I have no clue, how such an idea could work and up to now, you haven't given clues that convince me that it'll work. A few words of advice on where this thread is going. I think you got the posts by Shar and Shadarle wrong. There is no IPO where those two (in this community very trusted members) won't try to find the holes. Yes they have a "charming" way to put things, but that their first post wasn't a "For reasons x, y and z I classify this as scam", was actually a good sign. Dismissing their posts as "whining" or "flame" is something that hurts the credibility of your business idea in this forum a lot. Therefore I suggest you try to take their comments into serious consideration.
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:37:00 - [39] Ttocs, if I look at your proposal from an investors view it is not appealing to me. An investor wants to calculate the business risk; then weighs whether to invest and then watch his investment grow or payout. He doesn't like to work for it, he likes you to work for it. You however, as I understand it, are proposing to set up a new corporation with people participating in some trading/industrial fun together and making profit together. If I can look at it like that, then I have to say that I've seen worse proposals for setting up a corporation and players to participate in. It might work better if you propose it in an alliance structure, so participants keep control over their assts/capital they bring in the agreement. Then it will be a "gentlemens agreement" on all sides. RB
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.09.15 12:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Redbad It might work better if you propose it in an alliance structure, so participants keep control over their assts/capital they bring in the agreement. Alliances are expensive to set up, so that may be a non-starter.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 17:14:00 - [41] As this discussion continues what appears to be the case here is that you are recruiting for your corporation primarily, not really trying to run an ipo. And that's not entirely accurate as it seems you are trying to touch on all kinds of things, part recruiting thread, part money raising thread, part pawnshop thread. I guess it is this highly malleable overly ambitious nature that is confusing matters here. You title IPO, it should be about the IPO. If you are recruiting, you should have done something separate in recruiting. (Not just repost the OP.) If you are looking to buy people's stuff, again there is a forum for that as well. So what furtherance of the IPO discussion is going to happen? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 17:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Neidhardt Foster Thanks for answering my questions. Concrete points how such an idea could work are: How are people working for the enterprise rewarded? If only the increase in the shares value is taken, there is no incentive to put work into this. There should be some form of paying for the investment (be it time or money) a member undertakes. The idea of putting together a board of trusted persons to monitor the corp is nice, but who will that persons be? 1. There certainly are some important specifics which have yet to be laid out and I wont accept a penny until they are worked out, like who will be on the Board of Trustees. I'm assuming that setting up the business will take several months and that money wont exchange hands until then. I started this thread for this very purpose. 2. Once again I havent dismissed any actual questions and I have spent quiet a bit of time answering them. Several of the post on this thread lack substance. They ARE, in fact, flames -- but it has add buzz and given me the opportunity to talk about my ideas, which is great. 3. I had been thinking about how this might work for awhile and wanted to give it a try. I have been in two corps now. One highly organized, large and in 0.0 and the other loosely organized, small and in 0.3 space. In both instances the corps where fun and I learned a lot but they made me no ISK directly. The corps had ops and taxes and grew and HOPEFULLY its members grow right along side. They did not truly harness the power of pooled resource and finances. My system allows for actual ownership and the shares have actual cash value, which will increase member and shareholder buy in motivation. We all truly share the risk and the rewards to whatever degree you choose. Invest all your savings and time or just a tiny percentage of your ISK. 4. As far as making ISK as member, all corp business is paid for buy the corp. The corp is the business and the business is the corp. You would be in exact same boat I am in. All my ISK and time goes into growing the corp. If you have a good money making idea the corp will back you, no personal ISK needed. Personal side ventures or buying shiny toys is your own business and you will have to come up with the ISK for it, same as if you were in an other corp. I will be investing about half my net worth and all my time, you can invest whatever proportion of the two you like. 5. More examples. A new player invests all his ISK and buys one share. He spends his time on corp business and has a lot of fun. He, as a new player is given "access" to the power of scale and volume, his money grows at the same rate as the Billionaire with 100 shares, and the corp get access to his time. Remember in trade and finance profit is all about scale and time. MONEY x TIME = MORE MONEY. The old saying, "Money makes money" right. A fat rich SOB has ISK and a current corp and business plan hes happy with but extra ISK and or resource which are just sitting around and not "working". Remember ever penny of ISK which sits in wallet your is wasted potential. Parked ships, expensive mods, stashed resource unless being used or invested are "dead" money -- as far as growth is concerned you might as well not even own them. So this fat SOB invests a bunch of his idle ISK and starts up a lucrative trade or manufacturing or whatever relationship between is corp and TacTP. His idle money is now working and hes participating in its growth, not just sitting around hoping his dividend check shows up each month. Getting any clearer?? Great questions keep them coming.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 17:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 15/09/2008 18:03:26 Originally by: Shar Tegral As this discussion continues what appears to be the case here is that you are recruiting for your corporation primarily, not really trying to run an ipo. And that's not entirely accurate as it seems you are trying to touch on all kinds of things, part recruiting thread, part money raising thread, part pawnshop thread. I guess it is this highly malleable overly ambitious nature that is confusing matters here. You title IPO, it should be about the IPO. If you are recruiting, you should have done something separate in recruiting. (Not just repost the OP.) If you are looking to buy people's stuff, again there is a forum for that as well. You have also inspired me too change our motto. We win because we play smarter and we don't take sh*t from anybody. So what furtherance of the IPO discussion is going to happen? You seem to have a lot of subjective opinions about my style and you seem to have access to some secret rule book about how to post on this forum. I prefer to do it all right here since all the issue are interrelated.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Ttocs Rox 1. There certainly are some important specifics which have yet to be laid out Yes, firstly, why should anyone trust you? Originally by: Ttocs Rox 2.Several of the post on this thread lack substance. They ARE, in fact, flames -- but it has add buzz and given me the opportunity to talk about my ideas, which is great. Two things, you're the one that started talking shit. You apparently bit of more than you can effectively chew, get over it and stop whining. Secondly, the most insubstantial posting is from you. If you think "ad buzz" is something that will help you, think again. If you had a good chance this ipo would be half reserved already. /me looks around. Nope, don't see one reservation. At all. Originally by: Ttocs Rox 3. I had been thinking about how this might work for awhile and wanted to give it a try. Ah, now we get to it. You have a dream. Good for you. You can go line up behind all the other people with dreams. We'll get around to you with the same priority that we'd assign to everyone else with a dream. Like I said, if you are trying to build a corp... go to the recruiting threads and channels to go build one. I thought you were here asking for money? Originally by: Ttocs Rox 4. As far as making ISK as member, all corp business is paid for buy the corp. The corp is the business and the business is the corp. You would be in exact same boat I am in. All my ISK and time goes into growing the corp. Again, more recruitment posting. Originally by: Ttocs Rox 5. More examples. A new player invests all his ISK and buys one share. He spends his time on corp business and has a lot of fun. He, as a new player is given "access" to the power of scale and volume, his money grows at the same rate as the Billionaire with 100 shares, and the corp get access to his time. Wow, do I get to meet Tom Cruise as well? Oh, sorry, wrong infomercial. Originally by: Ttocs Rox So this fat SOB invests a bunch of his idle ISK and starts up a lucrative trade or manufacturing or whatever relationship between is corp and TacTP. Hmmmm... so it follows like this: 1 - Find Fat SOB (that's us remember) 2 - Call him Fat SOB. 3 - ???? 4 - He gives you his money. 5 - ???? 6 - Profit Originally by: Ttocs Rox Getting any clearer?? Very much so. What I can't understand is why you didn't say, "I hope that clears things up?" That would've been more polite to a prospective investor than the briefer and more hostile "Getting any clearer?" Asking it like that makes it seem like you are talking to a dense kid who wasn't getting it. Of course he's nothing but a Fat SOB though, right? All in all you still have failed to answer, legitimately, the trust question. And yes, I will keep asking about it, pushing it to the front of any discussion, and you will find that the only buzz you'll have is for a bunch of people I don't mind if you rip off. Heck, I kind of hope that some of the tards that will invest in you, to spite me, do so. It'll either speed up their education or weed them out of this industry. Either way, I'm here to stay. This thread is nice, comfy, and seems to have some legs on it. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:20:00 - [45] Who are you? Why should I trust you? Would you be willing to setup some sort of wallet viewer so I can view your transaction history and skills to confirm what you have said? Eve Commander or Sexy Wallet would do. Believe it or not I do understand what your trying to do, it's more the trust issue and can you actually do it that I am curious about. Your attitude will work for you and against you running a corp like this so It does not throw me off to badly. I speak for PROTON POWER not EBANK in this post. Please keep the 2 very seperated. Earn Isk on your Idle Isk Today!
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:32:00 - [46] Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! This IPO is about fun and ISK. I'm looking for collaborators. Let talk about how to make it work. Ive had fun exchanging posts with you but the proportion of crap that you spew to useful commentary is very high. You want specifics? CRAP YOU SAY / USEFUL POINTS YOU MAKE = 10.6 Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I have detailed several mechanisms that would provide for investor security but you don't comment on those, just more subjective baloney and personal attacks. You might provide an actual IDEA or SUGGEST a way to increase security if you dont like my ideas... Naaa flame away. ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined.
Xabier	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:45:00 - [47] Edited by: Xabier on 15/09/2008 18:45:04 Originally by: Ttocs Rox Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! This IPO is about fun and ISK. I'm looking for collaborators. Let talk about how to make it work. Ive had fun exchanging posts with you but the proportion of crap that you spew to useful commentary is very high. You want specifics? CRAP YOU SAY / USEFUL POINTS YOU MAKE = 10.6 Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I have detailed several mechanisms that would provide for investor security but you don't comment on those, just more subjective baloney and personal attacks. You might provide an actual IDEA or SUGGEST a way to increase security if you dont like my ideas... Naaa flame away. ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined. I think you might have better luck on the RP forums ;)
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! This IPO is about fun and ISK. I'm looking for collaborators. Let talk about how to make it work. Ive had fun exchanging posts with you but the proportion of crap that you spew to useful commentary is very high. You want specifics? CRAP YOU SAY / USEFUL POINTS YOU MAKE = 10.6 Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I have detailed several mechanisms that would provide for investor security but you don't comment on those, just more subjective baloney and personal attacks. You might provide an actual IDEA or SUGGEST a way to increase security if you dont like my ideas... Naaa flame away. ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined. Between all the flaming between you two did you miss my questions, working on answers, or just choose not to answer? Earn Isk on your Idle Isk Today!
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I guess you just do not get it. Several vets of this forum have explained to you in very nice terms why you are not being trusted. No trust = high scam potential I strongly suggest you read over the last month or two's worth of posts and IPO's to actually get a feel for what it is you are asking for. Remember you are coming hat in hand to this forum. Stop the infomercial and catch a clue or two from the plethora that have been given to you.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 18:57:00 - [50] By request, a little more about me. I started my current business model about a year ago on 10 or 15M. Thats million. For most of this time I was just messing around. I made plenty of mistakes. I stopped playing for several months. Then I noticed how much relative ISK can be made using my business model. I remember the days when I would shop around for the best price on a Mark II indy to save 50,000 ISK. The limiting factor on my grow was at that point was ISK. Money makes money. And now after a year of not overly serious play I have turned 10M into 10B. Thats 1000% return for those doing the math. But now my problem is time not capital its time. So I asked myself what if I expand the same model and started with 10B?? Anyone want to be a trillionaire? I do. At that point the corp will be more about power and less about trade. Might be fun. SO... no I do not have all the answers. I am looking for collaborators of all types. No dumbshts and no a*holes. We win because we play smarter and we dont take shit from anybody. Sincerely Tatical Trading Partnership CEO, Founder and Ass Kicker. Ttocs Draw
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! More whining and assumptions. You're on a roll here. Originally by: Ttocs Rox This IPO is about fun and ISK. I'm looking for collaborators. Let talk about how to make it work. Ive had fun exchanging posts with you but the proportion of crap that you spew to useful commentary is very high. You want specifics? CRAP YOU SAY / USEFUL POINTS YOU MAKE = 10.6 So you came here to recruit and get defensive? Originally by: Ttocs Rox Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I have detailed several mechanisms that would provide for investor security but you don't comment on those, just more subjective baloney and personal attacks. Your skin is thin. We noticed. Originally by: Ttocs Rox You might provide an actual IDEA or SUGGEST a way to increase security if you dont like my ideas... Naaa flame away. Ummm, It's YOUR job to increase security for investors. You want us to do all the damn work for you? Originally by: Ttocs Rox ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined. He/We/They do this all over the forum because giving ISK to anyone who comes along isn't the way things work. It's not being a bully. It's responsible investing. Allthough your idea/plan seems solid, your attitude has seriously damaged your reputation/chances of getting the investors here. Good luck.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:12:00 - [52] I agree 100%. Trust/security is the first issue. I have suggested several mechanisms to provide for this. Please comment. Please give suggestions. 1. Board of independent and known Trustees who have a controlling percentage. 2. Access to my current books and business model. 3. Regular audits and posting of the corp's books. 4. Given all the posting I have provided way more detail than most of the other IPO's I've seen out there and I am not even accepting any ISK atm. 5. Vested membership. 6. Vested shareholders. 7. Vested Board of Trustees 8. Personal investment of 4.5B or 51% of the risk. 9. Total flexibility, you can cash out anytime you want.
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:32:00 - [53] For potential investors don't bother. Can't even answer simple questions, instead rather continue the flamefest. Earn Isk on your Idle Isk Today!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:34:00 - [54] I wish to subscribe to the OP's newsletter --
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:34:00 - [55] A lot of interpersonal weirdness on this forum, whats the deal? Your mad cuz I havent put in the time lurking in this forum listen to your pearls of wisdom? Your mad cuz you think my business model might work? I rather play alone then put up with a bunch of crap, I don't need your ISK. I started this post just to have fun and collaborate with interesting people with good ideas. Why the repeated personal flaming? Your just cluttering up my thread. You have a subjective opinion about me.. so? Go upstairs and tell it to your grandma. You wanna talk business? Lets talk.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Proton Power For potential investors don't bother. Can't even answer simple questions, instead rather continue the flamefest. I thought was answer your questions. 1. Who am I 2. How will I provide for trust and security. Please rephrase, perhaps I didnt understand.
Frenden Dax	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 15/09/2008 19:53:48 interesting people with good ideas. Neither of which applies to you. This thread is amusing, and it looks like it's going to continue. Excellent.
Childeric III	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:09:00 - [58] I am sorry to say this; we (Merotech) really hoped that this IPO would launch. But you clearly need some help on a personal level in the art of leadership and communication. (Do not take this the wrong way, it is meant as constructive criticism.) Perhaps you should start of recruiting a communication officer, or contact a corporation that specializes in this thought of thing i.e. PR and business analysis etc.
B'wana Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:21:00 - [59] Originally by: PublicRelations Kwint Hello. lol ^^^sig zone indicator^^^ PR troll of Treelox
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:36:00 - [60] Haters and basement creepers aside, this is business. I do have a low tolerance for crap which is what you want in a CEO. You want your ISK to grow or do you want to talk about your feelings? I am sorry if I appear to conflate the good posters and players with the bad. Take a look at what Ive said. If this interests you let me know. I will be putting together a packet and sending it out via evemail. I will talk with each interested party individually about how they would like to collaborate. We will form a specific plan for each of you, I will answer any and all questions you have. The IPO will not launch for at least a month. I would like to have everything well lined out and rolls set before any money exchanges hands. And when I say collaborate I mean collaborate. If you wanna be a silent partner and let your ISK grow while you out of town or whatever thats cool too. Peace.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:42:00 - [61] Originally by: evemail rec'd from; Ttocs Draw 2008.09.15 20:41 added. info forthcoming. Woot, let the drama llama's continue --
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:49:00 - [62] Originally by: evemail rec'd from Ttocs Draw Subject:Removal 2008.09.15 20:48 ... :( Drama llama's excuted --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 20:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! {hostile stuff} I'm going to assume this was to me as there is no rational reason why this would've been directed at PP. My grandmother has been dead for 20 something years, um ... got laid earlier this morning (we woke up, could not go back to sleep, and viola!), and well I've more history here than you'll fabricate. (I don't know why you don't realize that a urinating match is not in your best interest, let alone winning?) Besides, grandma simply would not let me raise children in the basement. (Waaaaah!) Originally by: Ttocs Rox ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. If you think this is impressive, you should try doing some research. Only 4,381 of my posts have been captured by Eve Search. Simply because the database doesn't go back beyond a certain point. Of course I'm slightly bitter that dilettante's like HippoKing and Dark Shakiri get called uber forum ho's when I know for a fact that not only have I been as prolific as them but I've got (to my wife's delight) stamina as well. Of course if you thought I was flaming or being a bully you'd simply use the report link. I do not fear moderation. Not because I don't err and go over the line but because I simply embrace it for what it is worth. Originally by: Ttocs Rox pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined. Now this could not have been directed to me. I don't think anyone here would even contemplate that it was directed towards me either. Perhaps you should say names when you are making comments to people instead of leaving it unlabeled. Improper documentation leads to confusion. Of course being in health care who cares who is scheduled for amputation or which leg it is? Just as long as you get to say whatever however... accuracy isn't important. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Ttocs Rox If this interests you let me know. I will be putting together a packet and sending it out via evemail. I will talk with each interested party individually about how they would like to collaborate. We will form a specific plan for each of you, I will answer any and all questions you have. Scam tactic #3 - Isolate and control information. Eliminate transparency. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Childeric III	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:16:00 - [65] Edited by: Childeric III on 15/09/2008 21:19:52 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ttocs Rox If this interests you let me know. I will be putting together a packet and sending it out via evemail. I will talk with each interested party individually about how they would like to collaborate. We will form a specific plan for each of you, I will answer any and all questions you have. Scam tactic #3 - Isolate and control information. Eliminate transparency. Thought the same thing, didnÆt bother commenting on it though.... I would not recommend this IPO purely based on the CEO, heÆs personality actually reminds a bit of another recent IPO presentation! EDIT: THIS ONE
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Xabier Edited by: Xabier on 15/09/2008 18:45:04 Originally by: Ttocs Rox Dude your killin me. So much crap. YOU NEED TO GET LAID. GET OUT OF YOUR GRANDMA'S BASEMENT! This IPO is about fun and ISK. I'm looking for collaborators. Let talk about how to make it work. Ive had fun exchanging posts with you but the proportion of crap that you spew to useful commentary is very high. You want specifics? CRAP YOU SAY / USEFUL POINTS YOU MAKE = 10.6 Where is your evidence that I am trying to scam anyone? I have detailed several mechanisms that would provide for investor security but you don't comment on those, just more subjective baloney and personal attacks. You might provide an actual IDEA or SUGGEST a way to increase security if you dont like my ideas... Naaa flame away. ps. Ive noticed you do this all over the forum. You are the sad forum bully. pps. Your application for investment and membership is declined. I think you might have better luck on the RP forums ;) Oh yea? Which are the RP forums?
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:26:00 - [67] I'm not kidding when I say Ive enjoyed exchanging posts with you Char. I wasnt sure I'd even get a single reply! Hers another way at looking at this. If after reading this entire thread you agree with Char's "position" what ever it might be, this IPO and Corp is NOT for you. You can now stop reading this thread. Char can go back to having hot sex with his dead grandma. If after reading this entire thread this sounds interesting to you. Let me know and we can talk in more detail. Perhaps on TS or Mumble. Thank you all for helping make this a successful roll out.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:46:00 - [68] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Shar can go back to having hot sex with his dead grandma. Sadly, I'm not in health care so I'll stick with living and the living. And no, I won't give you grandma's address when you run out of cadavers to help you through those lonely nights. To paraphrase: "I guess you'll be speaking to your hand." Don't forget to kiss it when your done. Only courteous after all. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ttocs Draw	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:17:00 - [69] Oh and here's a pic of me hanging out at the crib. at the crib plus another 5B approx in resources, bpos/bpcs, ships and equipment.
Childeric III	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:17:00 - [70] What happened to the post after mine? DidnÆt think you could delete posts only edit!
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:20:00 - [71] Yes what happened to my post. If the Moderators are going to get involved could you please stop all the flaming.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Yes what happened to my post. If the Moderators are going to get involved could you please stop all the flaming. If the mods are deleting your post, I think you should take that as a clue as to who(you) is doing the flaming. :) --
jna Caldari Black Ash Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:36:00 - [73] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Haters and basement creepers aside, this is business. I do have a low tolerance for crap which is what you want in a CEO. You want your ISK to grow or do you want to talk about your feelings? Wow. Can we play "Spot the person who has never been a CEO" game? Or have I won already? ------------------------------------------------- Caeleste naves interretis res gravissimas sunt
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:36:00 - [74] Its the same 4 or 5 guys just flaming the hell out of this post. They have had their say. This is my thread, my IPO. If it is the case that forum Moderators work with the Trolls to let them take over threads then this forum is useless and I wont be wasting my time here any longer. I AM sorry to say. EVE rox! It should have a good forum to match it. Peace. IPO still stands. EVEmail me anytime.
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:37:00 - [75] WTF why is my IPO thread mentioned here? "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:42:00 - [76] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Your mad cuz I havent put in the time, lurking in this forum, listening to your pearls of wisdom? Your mad cuz you think my business model might work? You actually think someone is mad? LOL (I admit that it bothers me when someone doesn't know the diff between your and you're (there, their and they're bothers me too)) Originally by: Ttocs Rox I rather play alone then put up with a bunch of crap, I don't need your ISK. Yet here you are asking for our ISK. Originally by: Ttocs Rox I do have a low tolerance for crap which is what you want in a CEO. Actually "crap" goes with any supervisory/leadership position. You should expect it. A large part of leadership is dealing with TONS of crap and still being effective without losing your cool. Originally by: Ttocs Rox The IPO will not launch for at least a month. I would like to have everything well lined out and rolls set before any money exchanges hands. Seriously. Take the next month and put together a real IPO statement based on the template and lose the attitude. Do these two things and you have a good chance of making it work here.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:47:00 - [77] Originally by: CornerStoner Originally by: Ttocs Rox The IPO will not launch for at least a month. I would like to have everything well lined out and rolls set before any money exchanges hands. Seriously. Take the next month and put together a real IPO statement based on the template and lose the attitude. Do these two things and you have a good chance of making it work here. Not unless he uses a "clean" alt, I think his "performance" in this thread, has burned him permantly. IMO --
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:49:00 - [78] Edited by: Chomin H''ak on 15/09/2008 23:01:27 lol... wow. Dude, you've really gone about this the wrong way. Just a little advice, when they're nailing you with hard questions... it means they're (i.e. they are, they WERE) close to buying in if you can answer those questions to the best of your ability WITHOUT being defensive. Note: Important things emboldened and capitalized Edit: Originally by: shar tegral the first thing tested upon any unknown that comes here looking for funding is their ability to maintain composure in the face of criticism. Yeah... that. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
ElweSingollo The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:54:00 - [79] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Yes what happened to my post. If the Moderators are going to get involved could you please stop all the flaming. hmm three words come to mind mate "Pot/Kettle/Black" if you don't want mods getting involved don't start slinging excrement around maybe? CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature *In Before I Get M* Again*
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:55:00 - [80] ah this really is all about the Trolls. hes bustin my chops on grammar and usage, lol. you complain about my format? still have heard very little in the way of actual usable criticism and discussion on the merits of the business model. i have provided screen shots of some of my business. i have provided a mechanism to safeguard from thief. i promise to grow ur money. im sorry you dont like my format. i thought we might have some free form discussion. Troll's are big into rules it seems.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 22:59:00 - [81] Originally by: Ttocs Rox I wont be wasting my time here any longer. Even more sadly, I doubt we can count on you to keep your word. But I'm of two frames of mind here: Firstly, my granma would tell you, "Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you." Myself, Please let it hit you, repeatedly. Might increase your education if the impacts are closest to your brain. Secondly, I've received up to 90 day bans in my time. (Though the length was shortened upon review) I am far from a moderator favorite and they've gone round and round with me over various issues. However, in equal measure, you know it. You did it. You may not have liked what some have said but you are the one who typed the words that got deleted. Cry troll and flamer all you want, it is your lack of demeanor and composure that created the results you have received. In closing, the first thing tested upon any unknown that comes here looking for funding is their ability to maintain composure in the face of criticism. It is an imperfect test as far as litmus tests go however in Eve you could have investors from corps and alliances you can't stand. It is quite common actually. If you can not maintain a certain level of abstraction, keep your eye on the ball not your balls, then you will not be trusted to keep in game politics from effecting your ipo. It is likeliest, from our overall experience, that in that circumstance you'll rip off an in game enemy and consider it fair game. And this is just one of the considerations that comes with the composure litmus test. As we can see, not even 48 hours and you are running away crying "rusher **", "haxor", "no life loser", "IMBALANCE". Feel free to check your evemail box regularly. However, in case you don't know it, if you receive one a noise sounds. Just thought you should know in case you ever do receive an eve mail. PS: You know you could simply ask the mods to lock your thread and they'll do it for you. It's been dead long ago, you are just now realizing it. To Shar -verb*: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:01:00 - [82] Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have provided screen shots of some of my business. Which can be easily photoshopped. Without full API acccess, no one will really fully trust those screen shots. Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have provided a mechanism to safeguard from thief. Does that safeguard protect against theft if your the thief? Originally by: Ttocs Rox i promise to grow ur money. promise...which requires us to trust you.... So far all we really know about you is that your an emo-raged idiot who hasnt bothered to research his market before making an offering. --
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:11:00 - [83] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Its the same 4 or 5 guys just flaming the hell out of this post. They have had their say. This is my thread, my IPO. If it is the case that forum Moderators work with the Trolls to let them take over threads then this forum is useless and I wont be wasting my time here any longer. I AM sorry to say. EVE rox! It should have a good forum to match it. Peace. IPO still stands. EVEmail me anytime. Oh and so you all know and should care. WE just all experienced sponsorship. What I posted was funny, i thought, and really was too the point -- that its cool if your not interested i would like to talk to anyone who is. Just need a couple guys. Maybe no body is interested, no problem also. Also Shar revealed some very interesting personal facts about himself but now you all well never know due to censorship.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:37:00 - [84] Cleaned. Please stay on-topic. Critiquing posting styles does not lead to constructive threads. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:43:00 - [85] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Oh and so you all know and should care. WE just all experienced censorship. There you go. I'd call you newb but that would insult the newbs. Originally by: Ttocs Rox Also Shar revealed some very interesting personal facts about himself but now you all well never know due to censorship. Indeed, oh thank heaven for my friends amongst the moderators. Now all I need is to bring 10 thousands thousands of billions veldspar to Chribba and then perhaps my little revelations will be removed from the interwebz. Either that or you really don't know much. For the record, everything you've said or I've said is cached there. The points and issue surrounding your offer and the observed deficiencies in your offer and manners all saved for everyone to read. BTW Mitnal: Hard to tell what is actually on topic as according to the op this is ipo, recruiting, wanted to buy, and politics thread. So, sorry mate. Perhaps the op needs to restart or something. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:46:00 - [86] Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have provided screen shots of some of my business. Which can be easily photoshopped. Without full API acccess, no one will really fully trust those screen shots. Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have provided a mechanism to safeguard from thief. Does that safeguard protect against theft if your the thief? Originally by: Ttocs Rox i promise to grow ur money. promise...which requires us to trust you.... So far all we really know about you is that your overly emotional, lack the ability to accept any form of critism and havent bothered to research your market(us) before making an offering. All traits that I strive to avoid and recomend others to avoid when looking for an investment opportunity. --
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech	Posted - 2008.09.16 00:11:00 - [87] Whats sad is I thought about trying to back you if you could answer my few questions and open a Rays Sexy Wallet or Eve Commander Type wallet so I could view what you have done and see that you have the skills you say. Screen Shots to me mean nothing at all other than your good at photo shop, bravo zulu!!! Your telling me you sign into this game, don't use any chat channels, don't talk to anyone but make billions of isk. You say you lose billions in ships, you do this all on your own talking to nobody again. Sombody would know you, meaning give us some references. IF its as it look and nobody knows you (contrustivly your screwed, you wont' get backed). SOme other constructive help. Here in MD you need just 1 Person that is known to back you. Even that 1 person that backs you could probably get you through all the other drama that the others bring, but you my friend have not 1 backer, and those that have tried or might you have told off, called Fat SOB's, and constant other insults which tells me this is not even serious to you and or your just having fun with the post and had no intentions on this working in the first place. Earn Isk on your Idle Isk Today!
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 01:08:00 - [88] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 01:09:48 Originally by: Proton Power Whats sad is I thought about trying to back you if you could answer my few questions and open a Rays Sexy Wallet or Eve Commander Type wallet so I could view what you have done and see that you have the skills you say. Screen Shots to me mean nothing at all other than your good at photo shop, bravo zulu!!! Your telling me you sign into this game, don't use any chat channels, don't talk to anyone but make billions of isk. You say you lose billions in ships, you do this all on your own talking to nobody again. Sombody would know you, meaning give us some references. IF its as it look and nobody knows you (contrustivly your screwed, you wont' get backed). Some other constructive help. Here in MD you need just 1 Person that is known to back you. Even that 1 person that backs you could probably get you through all the other drama that the others bring, but you my friend have not 1 backer, and those that have tried or might you have told off, called Fat SOB's, and constant other insults which tells me this is not even serious to you and or your just having fun with the post and had no intentions on this working in the first place. hey man wut gives? i said i was going to put more information and that this might take months. and to be honest, it has been all on my own, almost exactly as you say. oh i get it, you almost had me there, you guys are all industrialist too -- this is just an extension of the in game trade wars. ok protons out. hes competitor he was never going to be in anyways. i may have made a mistake of showing off too much. my business model is too flexible though, you cant beat me. i can liquidate and turn on a dime.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 01:21:00 - [89] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 01:21:38 ok they censored the complaint about censorship and the same guys persist with the personal attacks with still no mention of business. putting on my CEO hat now, this venture has an increasing projected work to profit ratio and should reconsider the usefulness of these forums.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2008.09.16 01:31:00 - [90] Originally by: Ttocs Rox ah this really is all about the Trolls. hes bustin my chops on grammar and usage, lol. you complain about my format? still have heard very little in the way of actual usable criticism and discussion on the merits of the business model. i have provided screen shots of some of my business. i have provided a mechanism to safeguard from thief. i promise to grow ur money. im sorry you dont like my format. i thought we might have some free form discussion. Troll's are big into rules it seems. Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 01:09:48 Originally by: Proton Power Whats sad is I thought about trying to back you if you could answer my few questions and open a Rays Sexy Wallet or Eve Commander Type wallet so I could view what you have done and see that you have the skills you say. Screen Shots to me mean nothing at all other than your good at photo shop, bravo zulu!!! Your telling me you sign into this game, don't use any chat channels, don't talk to anyone but make billions of isk. You say you lose billions in ships, you do this all on your own talking to nobody again. Sombody would know you, meaning give us some references. IF its as it look and nobody knows you (contrustivly your screwed, you wont' get backed). Some other constructive help. Here in MD you need just 1 Person that is known to back you. Even that 1 person that backs you could probably get you through all the other drama that the others bring, but you my friend have not 1 backer, and those that have tried or might you have told off, called Fat SOB's, and constant other insults which tells me this is not even serious to you and or your just having fun with the post and had no intentions on this working in the first place. hey man wut gives? i said i was going to put more information and that this might take months. and to be honest, it has been all on my own, almost exactly as you say. oh i get it, you almost had me there, you guys are all industrialist too -- this is just an extension of the in game trade wars. ok protons out. hes competitor he was never going to be in anyways. i may have made a mistake of showing off too much. my business model is too flexible though, you cant beat me. i can liquidate and turn on a dime. Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 01:21:38 ok they censored the complaint about censorship and the same guys persist with the personal attacks with still no mention of business. putting on my CEO hat now, this venture has an increasing projected work to profit ratio and should reconsider the usefulness of these forums. IÆm going to quote the OP here, you know just in case he ever asks us for money again, then I can just link to this post and the problemÆs solved. PS WeÆre not all industrialists and you should have reconsidered the sagacity, style and quite frankly content of your posts well before ôreconsider[ing] the usefulness of these forums.ö Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 02:54:00 - [91] This thread veers further and further from even Eve's twisted reality. However I do predict that TacTP is going to need a strong PVP division. Very strong. If he/they ever undock. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.09.16 04:20:00 - [92] Can we sticky this one and finally get the thread labled "How not to ask for isk" .... the rather blatant trolling attempts at scams bore me lately. If you're going to go for something at least make an effort.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 04:46:00 - [93] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 04:50:36 Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 04:47:07 Originally by: Shar Tegral This thread veers further and further from even Eve's twisted reality. However I do predict that TacTP is going to need a strong PVP division. Very strong. If he/they ever undock. ah. so this forum has been staked out by some kabal. alls fair in war. i just like to know what im dealing with. is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? if you think staking out 1.0 space in hopes of getting a shot at me and surviving is a good business proposition, youre beyond reason.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:00:00 - [94] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 04:55:23 Originally by: Shar Tegral This thread veers further and further from even Eve's twisted reality. However I do predict that TacTP is going to need a strong PVP division. Very strong. If he/they ever undock. ah. so this forum has been staked out by some sort of kabal. alls fair in war. i just like to know what im dealing with. is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? if you think staking out 1.0 space in hopes of getting a shot at me and surviving is a good business proposition, youre beyond reason. You're done. I would suggest spending your energy on something else. Chairman of the Board of Directors \| www.eve-bank.net
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:14:00 - [95] Originally by: Ttocs Rox is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? The moment you come up with a business plan, and ask for our isk, you are no longer a neutral. At that point you are guilty until proven innocent. That is just the way things work here, it is a fact of life here. We have had many a "business man" come here asking for money over the years only to turn out to steal, cheat, suck or just dissappear, to be nice about things. If your looking for nice, and want to play act being the tycoon, take the suggestion someone gave earlier. Head towards the RP forums. --
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:19:00 - [96] The guy above may not have a very pretty head but his post was good and I agree with it.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:39:00 - [97] Originally by: Ricdics The guy above may not have a very pretty head but his post was good and I agree with it. I agree, Treelox does indeed have an ugly head. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:43:00 - [98] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 04:55:23 ah. so this forum has been staked out by some sort of kabal. alls fair in war. i just like to know what im dealing with. is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? if you think staking out 1.0 space in hopes of getting a shot at me and surviving is a good business proposition, youre beyond reason. You're sane and the world is crazy.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 05:54:00 - [99] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Ttocs Rox is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? The moment you come up with a business plan, and ask for our isk, you are no longer a neutral. At that point you are guilty until proven innocent. That is just the way things work here, it is a fact of life here. We have had many a "business man" come here asking for money over the years only to turn out to steal, cheat, suck or just dissappear, to be nice about things. If your looking for nice, and want to play act being the tycoon, take the suggestion someone gave earlier. Head towards the RP forums. im just wonder if you realize that you make no sense. you make the argument that both, im too mean in my postings and also that your postings are justified because its a mean mean business world. my point has always been the same. mean, not mean, i dont care. i would just like to talk business with like minded people. ive gone out of my way also to say that i am not looking to collect any ISK atm, but that fact doesnt seem to matter either, you and a handful of others just keep at it with the same nonsense. i love a good argument, as you can see, but its a lot more fun and constructive if we try to deal with.. facts, reality.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2008.09.16 06:01:00 - [100] Originally by: Ttocs Rox Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Ttocs Rox is this forum supposed to be neutral ground to be used equally by all EVE players? or is the forum an extension of in-game EVE? is it the job of the Mods to keep this forum open to all or are they here just to keep out the dreaded profanity? The moment you come up with a business plan, and ask for our isk, you are no longer a neutral. At that point you are guilty until proven innocent. That is just the way things work here, it is a fact of life here. We have had many a "business man" come here asking for money over the years only to turn out to steal, cheat, suck or just dissappear, to be nice about things. If your looking for nice, and want to play act being the tycoon, take the suggestion someone gave earlier. Head towards the RP forums. im just wonder if you realize that you make no sense. you make the argument that both, im too mean in my postings and also that your postings are justified because its a mean mean business world. my point has always been the same. mean, not mean, i dont care. i would just like to talk business with like minded people. ive gone out of my way also to say that i am not looking to collect any ISK atm, but that fact doesnt seem to matter either, you and a handful of others just keep at it with the same nonsense. i love a good argument, as you can see, but its a lot more fun and constructive if we try to deal with.. facts, reality. You fail to understand the basic situation. You are coming to us with hat in hand asking for money. We have money, you want it. This a fundamental difference and that is why we are allowed to be "mean" and you are not. You do not speak "business," you speak bullshit PR terms, as many a previous poster has pointed out. Don't get me wrong, one is often a substitute for the other but they are not the same. I kid you not, I spilled my root bear when I read that last line. "Reality," indeed. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Frenden Dax	Posted - 2008.09.16 06:05:00 - [101] Originally by: Ttocs Rox im just wonder if you realize that you make no sense. you make the argument that both, im too mean in my postings and also that your postings are justified because its a mean mean business world. my point has always been the same. mean, not mean, i dont care. i would just like to talk business with like minded people. ive gone out of my way also to say that i am not looking to collect any ISK atm, but that fact doesnt seem to matter either, you and a handful of others just keep at it with the same nonsense. i love a good argument, as you can see, but its a lot more fun and constructive if we try to deal with.. facts, reality. My god you're stupid. I don't mean that in a casual derogatory sense, I mean that literally. As in, Forrest Gump stupid. You come in here with no business plan, no reputation, no one willing to vouch for you, and an ego the size of Mt. Kilimanjaro. When confronted with criticism you react by childishly insulting your opponents instead of bothering to address their arguments. What really got me laughing though was the post I quoted above. I'm going to assume that English isn't your first language, because that's the only way you could have misinterpreted Treelox's post to the extent you did. The best part was where you claimed you "love a good argument" and then somehow assumed that the entire thread to this point has been devoid of reality and facts. That's halfway true, but only on your side.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 06:34:00 - [102] Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 06:36:24 im not a devotee of this forum as you can tell. it has a strange culture, which is to be expected i suppose. video game forum posting is going to select for a particular type, which i am one of. i have said literally 10 times that this thread is intended to be discussion forum about starting up the business plan that i have suggested. no money is requested, said this many times. for some reason the letters I, P and O, written together and in capitals confuses some of you. the use of these letters demand that i follow a certain protocol and format?? interesting. the almost absolute absence of any actual business discussion here is also suprising. i just had a very interesting and informative discussion with an EVE friend on Mumble about the merits of buying a particular BS BPO or not. we also talked about doing invention. nobody here seems to wanna talk about that kinda stuff. "your" (again sorry to conflate) willingness to resort to distortion and other tactics seems odd. if youre going to twist and flame why over some random thread? none of these question are rhetorical. i would love to hear a well reasoned explanation. but im sure all the rational individuals have lost interest long ago. but thats the point of flaming right. well its kept me entertained anyways.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.09.16 08:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have said literally 10 times that this thread is intended to be discussion forum about starting up the business plan that i have suggested. no money is requested, said this many times. This is not the impression given by the thread title or the original post. Originally by: Ttocs Rox for some reason the letters I, P and O, written together and in capitals confuses some of you. the use of these letters demand that i follow a certain protocol and format?? interesting. Successful IPOs, more often than not, do follow that certain protocol and format. Unsuccessful ones often deviate from it. This is why there are stickies for IPO templates to help guide the IPO proposer in the direction more readily accepted by the MD community. Originally by: Ttocs Rox the almost absolute absence of any actual business discussion here is also suprising. i just had a very interesting and informative discussion with an EVE friend on Mumble about the merits of buying a particular BS BPO or not. we also talked about doing invention. nobody here seems to wanna talk about that kinda stuff. That kind of discussion occurs more frequently in the Science & Industry forum. However, few people discuss those subjects anywhere on eve-o for fear of helping out the competition.
Childeric III	Posted - 2008.09.16 09:10:00 - [104] I will bite, with the hope of killing this thread. You tried to recruit and find investors in the same thread, if you are looking for investors; it is safe to assume that you will ask these investors to invest at a given point. Yes IPO management and even public relations requires that you follow a certain protocol and code of conduct, so the investors get as much relevant data and as less marketing talk as possible. There is a whole sticky filled with links to threads that can help you out on this particular subject. The absolute absence of INTERESTED investors is your own fault. But I assure you that they are here. They donÆt ôtalkö about business; they consume business proposals and digest risk assessment. I think you brought the flames to this thread, I will give you that the MD crowd can be tough, I donÆt always agree with their methods and ways of greeting newcomers, but it is sadly somehow justified if you take the history of EVE into account, and as an investor you are ignorant to leave that particular part out. I have answered all of your none-rhetorical questions. And with that being said I leave this thread, disappointed once again, that a promising IPO failed because of the CEOÆs personality disorder.
Neidhardt Foster Sternenschauer AG	Posted - 2008.09.16 12:28:00 - [105] Edited by: Neidhardt Foster on 16/09/2008 12:29:40 Edited by: Neidhardt Foster on 16/09/2008 12:28:46 Originally by: Ttocs Rox Edited by: Ttocs Rox on 16/09/2008 07:11:26 i have said literally 10 times that this thread is intended to be discussion forum about starting up the business plan that i have suggested. no money is requested, said this many times. The problem is: You haven't made this clear in the very first post, see below. Originally by: Ttocs Rox for some reason the letters I, P and O, written together and in capitals confuses some of you. the use of these letters demand that i follow a certain protocol and format?? interesting. Yes an IPO in this forum means: "I have a business idea that I'm going to start and I need cash for this idea to work". People making an IPO usually follow the IPO template and must be prepared to be seen "guilty until proven otherwise" (as someone above put it very nicely). Had you started your thread more like "I have an idea for a tactical trading cooperation and would love your input, how such an idea could work", you might have gotten what you looked for. Originally by: Ttocs Rox the almost absolute absence of any actual business discussion here is also suprising. i just had a very interesting and informative discussion with an EVE friend on Mumble about the merits of buying a particular BS BPO or not. we also talked about doing invention. nobody here seems to wanna talk about that kinda stuff. "your" (again sorry to conflate) willingness to resort to distortion and other tactics seems odd. if youre going to twist and flame why over some random thread? I think there are several reasons that contribute to this. First the points I allready mentioned (wrong thread startup), then (as mentioned more than once) you didn't know the community and its important members. But I think the most important reason is your reaction to aggressive posts. You complain about the flamewar, but you happily fueled it. If you want a constructive discussion, imo the first rule is: "stay constructive all the time", nothing hurts a discussion more than trying to prove that you can outflame someone. Someone mentioned a professional PR service. Don't know if this is needed, but I think you should take some time to work out the idea (which I still like), you should then try another thread (where its all about the idea, NOT funding) and you should stay polite and constructive in this thread at all times (yes it is hard sometimes!). Oh and if you ever get Shar, Shadarle or Proton Power interested in your idea again, remember: Those are key persons, make them comfortable with you idea and you will suceed.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.16 12:40:00 - [106] Interesting thread. Some advice: I enjoyed the way you handled Shar. You are clearly not a denizen of these forums but you are on the right track. Ignore him or bait him in the hope that he shit poasts something you can report and gets another forum ban. Gives us all a break. I will be contacting you in game. You have done well so far given your age and the time you claim you spend. I'd like to talk about some kind of arrangement. [IMA6E REMOVED]
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.16 14:35:00 - [107] Hey guys, Just had the pleasure of reading this thread through in one chunk, rather than watching it unfold over time. You've got my sympathy, Ttocs, as I'm afraid this is the normal pattern of behaviour on these forums. I've been hounded and insulted by this lot and I've not even thought of offering an IPO yet! It's a strange pattern of behaviour, and they don't seem to understand that their style of 'critique' provokes negative reactions. I think it's something to do with discouraging competition. At least, I hope that's it. Anyway, rest assured that there is probably a silent majority of folks who read and don't bother posting, and I've no doubt some of those folks will be in touch in-game to talk business, so you've not totally wasted your time. Ho-hum, another normal business day in the MD forums...
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2008.09.16 15:57:00 - [108] In the end, it comes down to the fact that he is asking me to spend my money on his project. It seems reasonable to me to want a lot of information and proof before I do this. This is a game. I tend to prefer games with rules requiring people to keep their bargains. But that isn't required in this game, and the rules allow players to scam. Since scamming is legal within the rules it is up to the buyer to avoid the scam. It is certainly reasonable for a player to not want to be scammed. If I was to go out into the world and ask for investors in my idea, I would expect people to ask some hard questions about how and why I am doing what I am doing. In the real world I might even have the possibility that the law would come down hard on the guy who was scamming. The fact that this is often the case is the most basic protection in society against scams. Since no law enforcement exists, and no method of protection is available to players it behooves the player to protect himself. There are a lot of people on the MD forums who have been burned a few times. The forum has developed an informal system for policing IPO's. This is a normal human response to situations where no functioning legal system exists. By posting on this forum you have implicitly agreed to that process. Just because the people here think your idea is bad doesn't mean you won't find investors, or that you can't change your process to attract more later. - Lexander Morinex
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.09.16 16:16:00 - [109] There was no substance in his OP; there is no how, who, why, or when in any concrete statement. General attitude towards prospective clientFle, basically telling everyone to kiss off cause he's 'right'. He asked for money in the OP, later he states he is not, yet it is slated as an Initial Public Offering, meaning that he is looking for people to buy into his idea, and yet insults anyone that probes. Three reasons why no one should buy into this. (yeah, can't mod this... dun dun dun dun dundun dundun can't mod this.) Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
Ttocs Rox	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:11:00 - [110] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ttocs Rox i have said literally 10 times that this thread is intended to be discussion forum about starting up the business plan that i have suggested. no money is requested, said this many times. This is not the impression given by the thread title or the original post. Originally by: Ttocs Rox for some reason the letters I, P and O, written together and in capitals confuses some of you. the use of these letters demand that i follow a certain protocol and format?? interesting. Successful IPOs, more often than not, do follow that certain protocol and format. Unsuccessful ones often deviate from it. This is why there are stickies for IPO templates to help guide the IPO proposer in the direction more readily accepted by the MD community. Originally by: Ttocs Rox the almost absolute absence of any actual business discussion here is also suprising. i just had a very interesting and informative discussion with an EVE friend on Mumble about the merits of buying a particular BS BPO or not. we also talked about doing invention. nobody here seems to wanna talk about that kinda stuff. That kind of discussion occurs more frequently in the Science & Industry forum. However, few people discuss those subjects anywhere on eve-o for fear of helping out the competition. ah thanx.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:40:00 - [111] Locked. Given the amount of hostility in this thread, it would be better to start afresh. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang


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