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CCP, farmer ISK became dirt cheap, GTC prices rose up to half a bil

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Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.09.14 15:15:00 - [61] Originally by: Steve Hawkings I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you, Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own. I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference, only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line. Well, it makes no sense to someone with your values, but not everyone values their money/resources the same way you do. For instance, to me, utility is the primary, and usually sole measure of value I apply to things. I've never derived much joy from having a huge pile of crap. I found out rather quickly that most things I buy have declining value (at best) or no value whatsoever after I buy them, and oftentimes, when the amount I'm paying for whatever (say, housing, or a fancy truck) is compared on a dollars-per-of-use basis it's often much cheaper to rent or use a service rather than buy something I'll barely use, or go with a cheap alternative when something fancy adds no value but costs more (this is why I use a cheap folding card table instead of a real computer desk) This is why I don't buy DVDs - the utility (me being entertained) is greater per dollar by renting something from Amazon Unbox (a service I use quite a bit). Since I almost never watch a movie more than once it's cheaper for me to download it, watch it, then delete it rather than buy something or even go to the rental store. But I do buy CDs since they have no DRM restrictions, last almost forever if stored properly, and I'm always listening to my music. This is why I also play MMOs - in terms of dollars per hour of entertainment they're unbeatable. I don't have a TV, I don't go to bars on the weekends and kill brain cells while I watch strippers dance, I don't go out to eat often, I'm not out to impress anyone by having a bunch of fancy stuff, etc. I used to play pen and paper games (which are more expensive, but are much more fun with a good group, so it's still a good deal, up to a point) but sadly I don't have a good group atm and likely won't till next year. So, basically, back to the point, in terms of the amount of entertainment I have, I can grind for roughly 28 hours in-game mining in my Hulk, or I can fix electronics for five more hours, buy GTCs, and get the same amount of ISK. The fact that it's monopoly money isn't relevant. ---
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.14 15:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Victor Kruger When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received. No, only the actual amount is removed. Problem is that, by the time this happens, people have usually spent all that money already and are therefore pushed into negative ISK. CCP removes 1x the bought ISK + player spends 1x the bought ISK = 2x the bought ISK gone from wallet.
Capri Corn	Posted - 2008.09.14 15:55:00 - [63] I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about what Mankirks Wife is saying... Unless you enjoy mining, you are doing it to make ISK. That is working, and it is no different from someone working for dollars and then converting those dollars into ISK.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.14 16:31:00 - [64] Edited by: Le Skunk on 14/09/2008 16:31:10 Originally by: Mankirks Wife This is why I also play MMOs - in terms of dollars per hour of entertainment they're unbeatable. I don't have a TV, I don't go to bars on the weekends and kill brain cells while I watch strippers dance, I don't go out to eat often, I'm not out to impress anyone by having a bunch of fancy stuff, etc. I used to play pen and paper games (which are more expensive, but are much more fun with a good group, so it's still a good deal, up to a point) but sadly I don't have a good group atm and likely won't till next year. [adopts northern accent] PENS! PENS!!!!! LUXURY. WHEN I WERE A BOY I USED THE END OF ' BURNT STICK, BUT I WERE ONLY ALLOWED T' USE IT AFTER ME DA HAD THRASHED ME WI' 'T TO WITHIN AN INCH O' ME LIFE SKUNK
Sarin Adler Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:04:00 - [65] Pan Crastus & Mankirk Wifes don't lose your time explaining that, somepeople does not understand concepts like 'cost of oportunity' etc. Those condeming GTC for ISK pretending to have qan higher morality in reality are highlly materialist as don't udnerstand that real money does not have other utility in the end tha is to please you... On topic, I have bought GTC with ISKs, why? Because I could pay them with 10 hours worth of doing missions i.e. and actually I do not hate running missions that much. As I'm a student and I can afford to lose that time and have some relative fun it was worth it (also the second account helps me to yield more isk per hour), but is running to a point that I won't consider buying GTCs with ISK, because 600m is just too much (I need the isk to play the game too, lol). What happens is that in the end only those playing the game as a work (farmers) will be able to buy GTCs and they are earning 24/7 and never use their isk for other thing; there is also filthy rich players who will be able to pay that much, but still, are the minority. I think the reason of current GTC prices (in isks) is a combination of things, we can't confirm neither but lower supply and increase of demand probably has a lot to do with real economic situation (less disposable money, having to pay alts or even main accounts with ISK increases demand, and less GTC sellers for the same reason) and farmers are worsening it for the same reasons that have been pointed out allready. There isn't a single reason, but at least CCP can fix one of them. --- Alts, the root of all evil.
Darwin's Market	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:06:00 - [66] choose long skill let 2nd to 20th accounts lapse come back when gtc is cheaper
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.09.14 18:02:00 - [67] Just saw a farmer ISK spam for $33/billion. Now, remember that the average IQ out there is 100, and half the people are dumber than that. Assuming they can do basic math they can figure out that buying a billion ISK and spending it on two 60 day timecards gets them game time at roughly $8/month. Duno how many people are that dumb; but it could be a factor.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.09.14 18:03:00 - [68] Um, GTC prices rose because CCP nearly doubled their price. And not everyone buys them with ISK because they're too "cheap". Some people can barely afford luxuries in RL because they are disabled or raising kids or whatever, or maybe have credit problems so can't just charge it to a CC. But really it's none of your **ing business why someone can't pay for a game with a CC (trying to pay for EVE with cash is a right pain in the ass) and must resort to GTC purchases. You are out of place telling other what they should and should not be able to afford in RL. CCP screwed over a specific portion of their customers and they deserve all the flak they get for it. Personally, I'm only playing EVE until it gets tiring farming so much ISK just to pay for game time, aside from the ISK I need to actually enjoy the game. And I don't care if you'll miss me, you're all a bunch of *****s anyway. This community is garbage compared to what it was four years ago when I started playing. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.09.14 18:22:00 - [69] Originally by: Banana Torres Dearest CCP, George W. Bush has destroyed the American economy and so now people can't affort to buy GTCs or pay for game time in dollars. So the number of GTCs for sale is lower and the number of GTC buyers is larger. So the price of GTCs has risen. So, CCP, please invade the US and stop a pig with lipstick and his gun totin' running mate being elected so that the price of GTCs fall again. Much Love and Kisses Your Dearest and Cuddliest Friend, Banana Torres P.S. Dunno if the above speculation is true, but it makes more sense than the OP. holy shit great minds think alike. I was thinking the same thing. lololol
Angelo Dell'Agio	Posted - 2008.09.14 18:46:00 - [70] and nobody sofar even considers the impact through absence of 30/90D GTC's in the supply chain? Do a quick poll around your own communities how many people have stopped quick buys and sells of 30D GTC's for a quick and simple influx of isk as those stood out a lot less at the end of the month in the household budget :P
Charney deGeoff Caldari Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Steve Hawkings I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference, Dude.. you're arguing that.. on, erm, the Internet.. and like on virtual spaceship game boards. You're one of those types who don't pay for EVE? or for your Internet connection? Or for your electricity? Damn, now I'm jealous (unless your parents pay for all that, in which case, I'm not very jealous at all).
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:25:00 - [72] lol at the hate in this thread. Especially the Bush generated nerd rage. People are right in telling you to just buy the subscription with R/L cash. It is cheaper in terms of time spent. Either accept that or move on. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Epidemis	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:57:00 - [73] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tasuk Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays. May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting? I disagree. The prices on the GTC has risen greatly in correlation to the drop in farmer isk. That means it's still very viable to convert isk into dollars.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.14 20:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Pan Crastus What you don't get is that if you actually had enough cash to buy the things that you like in RL, you'd realize that they are just that, things. Their value to you is what you can do with them, that's all. I know that modern consumerism preaches owning as much stuff as you can, but sooner or later you wake up and realize it's all worthless unless it brings you joy. And for things to bring you joy, you don't need to own them. This. ::emphatic:: -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.14 20:45:00 - [75] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tasuk Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays. May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting? the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go. in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job. if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand. playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently. I believe it is the other way around, they aren't being caught so their isk supplies are increasing, however what I think you meant was the buyers are getting caught so fewer players are buying the isk thus increasing the farmers supply and leaving less of a paper trail so they have more farmers not getting banned. as for gtc prices going up that would be because the farmers have more isk and more farmers. 1 account can gather up 500mil in 2 months quite easy, hell at 10mil/hr (a somewhat low number) it would take 50 hours that is like a week worth of working. so that is 500mil/week for 8 weeks -> 4billion in 2 months, so taking 3.5billion to sell and 500mil for another gtc. I expect gtc prices to rise if anything. of course this completely ****s over people that are playing for a few hours a day after school/work now if the supply of people selling gtcs went up it might be a different story. makes me wish I had a few thousand dollars to blow try and bring the price to about 300mil where I was speculating it would fall prechange.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.14 20:49:00 - [76] Originally by: Wet Ferret Um, GTC prices rose because CCP nearly doubled their price. And not everyone buys them with ISK because they're too "cheap". Some people can barely afford luxuries in RL because they are disabled or raising kids or whatever, or maybe have credit problems so can't just charge it to a CC. But really it's none of your **ing business why someone can't pay for a game with a CC (trying to pay for EVE with cash is a right pain in the ass) and must resort to GTC purchases. You are out of place telling other what they should and should not be able to afford in RL. CCP screwed over a specific portion of their customers and they deserve all the flak they get for it. Personally, I'm only playing EVE until it gets tiring farming so much ISK just to pay for game time, aside from the ISK I need to actually enjoy the game. And I don't care if you'll miss me, you're all a bunch of *****s anyway. This community is garbage compared to what it was four years ago when I started playing. the current gtc prices are cheaper than the old 90d in terms of cash and are going for the same, if not more isk per gtc.
masternerdguy	Posted - 2008.09.14 20:56:00 - [77] you know, ccp should just allow macro mining and make automated mining drones
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.09.14 21:22:00 - [78] Originally by: masternerdguy you know, ccp should just allow macro mining and make automated mining drones those are fighting words. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Weakmind	Posted - 2008.09.14 22:17:00 - [79] Edited by: Weakmind on 14/09/2008 22:18:00 This: Originally by: Victor Kruger I did a little research on current Isk prices. 1 Billion Isk costs between 31 and 35 USD when purchased through "shady" sources. One 60 day GTC amounts to 35 USD as well and will currently bring in around 500 Million Isk when sold to other players. In other words: Isk received for GTC's on the Forums = GTC value in USD = Isk purchased from shady sources minus the risk factor of getting caught When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received. From this reasoning we could assume, that the risk factor in the above example is 500 Million Isk (half the value of the purchase). Now, CCP doesn't catch every player. I'm not even sure how vigilant they are at finding these people, considering the enormous slack they show when it comes to downing RMT farmers. So in the end, the risk factor is an unknown value somewhere between 50% and 0%. Conclusion: Potentially, the GTC prices for 60 day cards could climb to 1 Billion Isk each, although this scenario is highly unlikely and would require absolute apathy from CCP when it comes to Isk buyer hunting. and this: Originally by: Clair Bear Just saw a farmer ISK spam for $33/billion. Now, remember that the average IQ out there is 100, and half the people are dumber than that. Assuming they can do basic math they can figure out that buying a billion ISK and spending it on two 60 day timecards gets them game time at roughly $8/month. Duno how many people are that dumb; but it could be a factor. Now before you idiots, with your moronic "pulled out of your ass" theories are about to hit "post reply", read that again and save us the spam. Efficient isk farmers, combined with the CCP move, removing 30/90 day GTCs and raising the dollars/month GTC cost= current situation.
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.09.14 22:33:00 - [80] Originally by: Weakmind When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received. From this reasoning we could assume, that the risk factor in the above example is 500 Million Isk (half the value of the purchase). AFAIK only the purchased ISK gets deducted. In which case even if you're caught you're still pretty much even. Yes, you now have to farm up that ISK to get out of a neg wallet -- but you're no worse off than had you simply bought GTCs with ISK in the first place. Depending on whose wallet is negatived if an untrained alt is used for the transaction that may not even be a downside. Ok, so maybe the ISK buyers aren't as dull as I originally thought.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.14 22:52:00 - [81] i'm selling tinfoil hats in jita 4-4, get yours now before the 'value' of 'value' dives! Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it."
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.09.14 22:58:00 - [82] CCP won't do anything about the farmers, they love their dirty money.
Tasuk	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:27:00 - [83] Originally by: Wet Ferret Um, GTC prices rose because CCP nearly doubled their price. Old 30 day game time codes cost $15 per 30 days and gave ISK buyers best $$:ISK conversion. New 60 day game times codes cost $17 per 30 days and are the only conversion option now. Where do you see double price in here???
Tasuk	Posted - 2008.09.15 00:57:00 - [84] Edited by: Tasuk on 15/09/2008 00:57:42 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: MotherMoon the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go. in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job. I believe it is the other way around, they aren't being caught so their isk supplies are increasing, however what I think you meant was the buyers are getting caught so fewer players are buying the isk thus increasing the farmers supply and leaving less of a paper trail so they have more farmers not getting banned. as for gtc prices going up that would be because the farmers have more isk and more farmers. 1 account can gather up 500mil in 2 months quite easy, hell at 10mil/hr (a somewhat low number) it would take 50 hours that is like a week worth of working. so that is 500mil/week for 8 weeks -> 4billion in 2 months, so taking 3.5billion to sell and 500mil for another gtc. I expect gtc prices to rise if anything. of course this completely ****s over people that are playing for a few hours a day after school/work now if the supply of people selling gtcs went up it might be a different story. makes me wish I had a few thousand dollars to blow try and bring the price to about 300mil where I was speculating it would fall prechange. This is about what I am saying. Cheaper farmer ISK and more RMT/farming accounts in game have an effect on GTC market in that the GTC prices in ISK rise. There are usually small variations in prices due to market's ups and downs in supply and demand but what has happened in the past 3 weeks is simply insane. The prices on 60 day codes have jumped up 100 million per code. At the same time farmer ISK is cheapest than it has ever been, which means that CCP is lagging behind in their war against RMTers. If you are collecting money in the traditional ways of mining or running missions this new GTC price will amount to 15-20 hours per month spent grinding PER ACCOUNT. Meaning if you have more than 1 account to support with game time codes you will be spending double, triple, or quadruple this time. The alternative is consolidating your characters and closing down your alt accounts which is what many players are happily choosing to do now. On this background, CCP promoting people opening up additional accounts with Power of Two offer seems silly to me when at the same time they have molded the game such that people who were running multiple accounts are being forced to close them.
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.09.15 01:20:00 - [85] Originally by: Zhenga Well I support Bush and John McCain. Bush has not ruined my economy. Osama Obama will destroy it tho Sad. I guess I better get selling these GTC's. Sounds like it would be cheap iskies. What dream world are you living in? Bush has absolutly messed up the american economy. We are paying for a war, he lied to get us into. Paying stupid prices for gas, paying stupid prices for food and other "services" etc. I guess $5.00 a gallon for gas doesn't affect you much, but I pay $55.00 a fuel up in a car that is easy on gas. Unfortunatly, I also have to drive a lot because of my job which means I am paying close to $325.00 a month for fuel. I don't make a lot of money, and have had to scale back a huge amount. EVE is next on the cutting back block if I am to keep my job (i.e. have fuel for my car). I would buy a cheaper more economical car.... but I get awesome gas mileage in my prius (45mpg) and it don't get much better than that. Bush and his OIL BARON *****s have absolutly screwed the economy. And anyone who doesn't see that is either living with mommy and daddy or has a job that pays significantly better than the average american has. I'll assume you have the job as you don't strike me as a teen. Storm In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.09.15 02:08:00 - [86] CCP - always nerfing something to unfixable.?
Joe Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.	Posted - 2008.09.15 03:52:00 - [87] Perhaps GTC prices are rising, becuase there's no more alliances with Rich RL players spending thousands of dollars to Fund Titan's, trying to catch up with the real Corps in the game that have the industrial backbone to build them legitamatly.... Or perhaps theres no more Rich doctor/lawyer types selling hundred of GTC any more to fund a few Tech II bpo purchases. GTC prices have nothing todo with Isk farmers or sales, there's simply not enough sellers out there to meet the demand of the people that buy them, so only the highest paying customers are securing them. Umbra Recruitment
Tasuk	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:45:00 - [88] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Tasuk Originally by: Borg 6517 600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game Which is what is happening on the GTC forum right now. Real player buyers are being replaced with customers like jinguyang sdhoiufu and golndgold who can afford paying 500-600 mil ISK no problems since they are farming the game 23/7. Dont fhuck with jinguyang sdhoiufu! He will PK you ass! SKUNK what are you? their public relations representative?
Juliette Leblanc Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:46:00 - [89] Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather Bush has absolutly messed up the american economy. We are paying for a war, he lied to get us into. Paying stupid prices for gas, paying stupid prices for food and other "services" etc. I guess $5.00 a gallon for gas doesn't affect you much ROTFL I'd love to pay $5 for a gallon. But I currently pay something like $12-$15 for the equivalent of a gallon. And most of the world is doing the same.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.09.15 04:57:00 - [90] Edited by: Misanth on 15/09/2008 05:04:13 Originally by: heheheh Wrong, I can buy real items with my money stuff that is actually mine, no matter how much you pay for your ISK, CCP can stop the game and take it back at any time. Wrong, There's a crapload of countries where owning stuff can't be taken for granted, in fact a good portion of the world live in that reality. Not to mention alot of people assume they own stuff, then boom a hurricane, or an invasion/war, etc, happens.. just out of the blue. Or you might just get ill and, even when having an insurance, might just end up getting half your previous income and have to 'downgrade' your assets, etc. Then I havn't even touched obvious things like death, and through history you can see that there's no human society that survived for very long periods either. RL stuff is just like MMO-stuff. You have it for 'loan' during a period of time. In a longer perspective it has no value at all. It's just that in games it's more certain that you will lose (the access you had to it) sooner. (In relation to your comment; your RL money is yours for the time being, it could very well be that you don't have it in an hour from now) Either way, that's off topic, and what I said is a bit extreme, but it is wrong to assume you actually do own anything. Assets/possessions never last forever, in a long perspective. It's a cultural thing tho, people focus on different things. That's another reason it's a major fail when people are trying to judge other peoples actions (buying/selling GTC with ingame/RL isk, buying/selling isk with RL money, etc) based on their own opinions. Meh, rant over, it's just all semantics.. and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is the EULA and the question if you enjoy the game or not. shrugs

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