Originally by: Tasuk

---

Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays.

May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting?

---

Originally by: Banana Torres

---

Dearest CCP,

George W. Bush has destroyed the American economy and so now people can't affort to buy GTCs or pay for game time in dollars. So the number of GTCs for sale is lower and the number of GTC buyers is larger. So the price of GTCs has risen.

So, CCP, please invade the US and stop a pig with lipstick and his gun totin' running mate being elected so that the price of GTCs fall again.

Much Love and Kisses
Your Dearest and Cuddliest Friend, Banana Torres

P.S.
Dunno if the above speculation is true, but it makes more sense than the OP.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand.
playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently.

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Banana Torres

---

Dearest CCP,

George W. Bush has destroyed the American economy and so now people can't affort to buy GTCs or pay for game time in dollars. So the number of GTCs for sale is lower and the number of GTC buyers is larger. So the price of GTCs has risen.

So, CCP, please invade the US and stop a pig with lipstick and his gun totin' running mate being elected so that the price of GTCs fall again.

Much Love and Kisses
Your Dearest and Cuddliest Friend, Banana Torres

P.S.
Dunno if the above speculation is true, but it makes more sense than the OP.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays.

May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting?

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

---

Originally by: Redback911

---

Pay for the game.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

There are always greedy people on at the weekends, the price will go down again, afterall the ******s that buy gtcs for cash and sell for imaginary money are a strange lot.

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Redback911

---

Pay for the game.

---

i am paying with my time, may be yours is free, mine isn't

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays.

May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting?

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

---

That's one possible interpretation. Another might be that supply has increased.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Oh, and people with jobs who are willing to pay to play.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:53:33

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

It works the other way:
farmers prices drop
people buy less and less GTCs and more farmed ISKs
gtc prices rise due to lack of supply
people close down their additional accounts being unable to afford them
farmers sell moar isk, ccp sells less game time
game suffers (not dies, just suffers)

I watch farmer ISK prices because they are typically one of the indicators where the GTC prices will go, up or down
Not because i buy ISK.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:53:33

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

It works the other way:
farmers prices drop
people buy less and less GTCs and more farmed ISKs
gtc prices rise due to lack of supply
people close down their additional accounts being unable to afford them
farmers sell moar isk, ccp sells less game time
game suffers (not dies, just suffers)

I watch farmer ISK prices because they are typically one of the indicators where the GTC prices will go, up or down
Not because i buy ISK.

---

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

What is certain is that illegal ISK sales aren't getting out of hand, otherwise GTC prices would drop.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Oh, and people with jobs who are willing to pay to play.

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

I CAN'T PAY FOR MY 10 ACCOUNTS! - Welcome to the club where we pay our game time with real money and never had the luxury of metagaming to such ridiculous proportions such as that. I hate metagamers like you, you're no better then the farmers in a lot of ways, you're able to do 10 times as much in the time of everyone else and rubbish the economy so others have to work ten times harder with their 1 accounts to achieve the same.

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

People who've usually brought GTC's are either thinking of paying with real money for once or quitting half or all their accounts making it a less laggy or less metagamey world for us all to live in.

---

Originally by: DTson Gauur

---

Sadly GTC prices are so insane that I'm seriously considering selling my second char and just pay with CC this one 6 months at a time. No way in hell I'm gonna pay more than 400mil for a 60d GTC, more than that is a total rip-off.

What does the above mean then? Less money to CCP coffers, 1 account isn't that much but when 10 thousand players all cancel one it shows.

---

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

---

The 'my time is valuable' thing works both ways though.

Recently I've started selling a few GTCs here and there myself.

Why?

Well... I have max mining skills (Exhumers V, mining drones V, drone interfacing V, mining drone operation V, and all the crystals), but my Hulk just gathers dust these days and I spend all my in-game time pewpewing in FW.

I fund this because I can spend 4 hours mining in my Hulk, come back with maybe 30 million ISK on the best of days, add another hour of ore trading for another 20 or so, and for five hours of my time I now have 50 million ISK.

or...

I can work five more hours at my RL job, spend the money on 3 GTCs, sell them in a matter of minutes and walk away with 1.4 bil or so.

I'll agree though, demand is far outstripping supply right now - prices seem to have leveled off in the 450-500 mil range though, any more and people simply won't pay. And I refuse to sell to farmers, a stance I hope everyone will take.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

---

The 'my time is valuable' thing works both ways though.

Recently I've started selling a few GTCs here and there myself.

Why?

Well... I have max mining skills (Exhumers V, mining drones V, drone interfacing V, mining drone operation V, and all the crystals), but my Hulk just gathers dust these days and I spend all my in-game time pewpewing in FW.

I fund this because I can spend 4 hours mining in my Hulk, come back with maybe 30 million ISK on the best of days, add another hour of ore trading for another 20 or so, and for five hours of my time I now have 50 million ISK.

or...

I can work five more hours at my RL job, spend the money on 3 GTCs, sell them in a matter of minutes and walk away with 1.4 bil or so.

I'll agree though, demand is far outstripping supply right now - prices seem to have leveled off in the 450-500 mil range though, any more and people simply won't pay. And I refuse to sell to farmers, a stance I hope everyone will take.

---

lol
i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:05:56
Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 10:37:23

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand.
playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently.

---

Actually when farmers are having a hard time their ISK becomes more expensive, not cheaper. Remember the time that Goons waged a jihad on all the high sec farmers? And suicide killed probably hundreds of mining barges? Well if you were watching the farmer ISK prices at that time they jumped about 20-30% upward, not downward (and actually at the same time GTC prices have come down a bit). High ISK prices indicate farmers are in trouble. Low ISK prices means they are farming in easy mode, which is what is happening now.

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

Originally by: Regulottus

---

heh I bought a GTC from shattered crystal a few days ago.
Then I happened to have a look at timecode bazaar. Managed to sell the GTC for 500 mil and buy another one there for 400 mil. Happy days

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:05:56
Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 10:37:23

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand.
playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently.

---

Actually when farmers are having a hard time their ISK becomes more expensive, not cheaper. Remember the time that Goons waged a jihad on all the high sec farmers? And suicide killed probably hundreds of mining barges? Well if you were watching the farmer ISK prices at that time they jumped about 20-30% upward, not downward (and actually at the same time GTC prices have come down a bit). High ISK prices indicate farmers are in trouble. Low ISK prices means they are farming in easy mode, which is what is happening now.

---

sorry but no, my roomate is a goon and he was bragging about getting isk prices down.

having less demand doesn't increase prices.

---

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

---

And I refuse to sell to farmers, a stance I hope everyone will take.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

sorry but no, my roomate is a goon and he was bragging about getting isk prices down.

---

Originally by: heheheh

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

lol
i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

U/f your going to be feeling sorry for a lot of people,
Mordern society grooms people to be like this, if they didnt, the people in charge wouldnt be able to farm them like sheep for a $.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

Edited by: Pan Crastus on 14/09/2008 14:12:19

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

You don't get it. People are paying to have fun in the game (a.k.a. PVP) because making ISK isn't fun (in most cases). Buying ISK is not in any way worse than grinding many hours for it, people whose time has no value in RL seem to overlook that fact.

Does not apply for the few people who are actually enjoying mining and other mind-numbing activities in EVE, of course they won't buy ISK.

As for the old "RL cash for pixels" argument - RL money is also just numbers, it's worth nothing unless you do something with it that you enjoy.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

sorry but no, my roomate is a goon and he was bragging about getting isk prices down.

---

You've petitioned him, right?



hey, he's a goon, they expect & admire such behaviour.

---

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

As for the old "RL cash for pixels" argument - RL money is also just numbers, it's worth nothing unless you do something with it that you enjoy.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you,
Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own.
I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,
only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line.

---

Originally by: Cory Trevor

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you,
Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own.
I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,
only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line.

---

If you're playing a MMO, you're renting pixels for cash. What's the difference? You do realize how rare it is that a non-Korean-grindfest-MMO can be played without paying cash yourself, right?

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 13:18:32

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

I CAN'T PAY FOR MY 10 ACCOUNTS! - Welcome to the club where we pay our game time with real money and never had the luxury of metagaming to such ridiculous proportions such as that. I hate metagamers like you, you're no better then the farmers in a lot of ways, you're able to do 10 times as much in the time of everyone else and rubbish the economy so others have to work ten times harder with their 1 accounts to achieve the same.

---

tl;dr version "i am better/more moral than you *hump! hump! sounds of chest beating* because i own one account when you own seven in an mmo game" ... this is simply roflmao
of course you hate "metagamers" like me than own more than one account - jealousy can't arouse any other emotion but irrational hate

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

People who've usually brought GTC's are either thinking of paying with real money for once or quitting half or all their accounts making it a less laggy or less metagamey world for us all to live in.

---

most people have significant problems keeping track of more than 2 accounts playing simultaneously so if you think this will reduce lag because someone drops 20 accounts down to 10, think again, because they were never playing 20 accounts simultaneously in the first place

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Which is what is happening on the GTC forum right now. Real player buyers are being replaced with customers like jinguyang sdhoiufu and golndgold who can afford paying 500-600 mil ISK no problems since they are farming the game 23/7.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 14/09/2008 14:37:13

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

Edited by: Pan Crastus on 14/09/2008 14:12:19

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

You don't get it. People are paying to have fun in the game (a.k.a. PVP) because making ISK isn't fun (in most cases). Buying ISK is not in any way worse than grinding many hours for it, people whose time has no value in RL seem to overlook that fact.

Does not apply for the few people who are actually enjoying mining and other mind-numbing activities in EVE, of course they won't buy ISK.

As for the old "RL cash for pixels" argument - RL money is also just numbers, it's worth nothing unless you do something with it that you enjoy.

---

I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you,
Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own.
I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,
only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you,
Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own.
I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,
only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line.

---

Originally by: Victor Kruger

---

When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received.

---

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

---

This is why I also play MMOs - in terms of dollars per hour of entertainment they're unbeatable. I don't have a TV, I don't go to bars on the weekends and kill brain cells while I watch strippers dance, I don't go out to eat often, I'm not out to impress anyone by having a bunch of fancy stuff, etc. I used to play pen and paper games (which are more expensive, but are much more fun with a good group, so it's still a good deal, up to a point) but sadly I don't have a good group atm and likely won't till next year.

---

Originally by: Banana Torres

---

Dearest CCP,

George W. Bush has destroyed the American economy and so now people can't affort to buy GTCs or pay for game time in dollars. So the number of GTCs for sale is lower and the number of GTC buyers is larger. So the price of GTCs has risen.

So, CCP, please invade the US and stop a pig with lipstick and his gun totin' running mate being elected so that the price of GTCs fall again.

Much Love and Kisses
Your Dearest and Cuddliest Friend, Banana Torres

P.S.
Dunno if the above speculation is true, but it makes more sense than the OP.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays.

May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting?

---

I disagree. The prices on the GTC has risen greatly in correlation to the drop in farmer isk. That means it's still very viable to convert isk into dollars.

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

What you don't get is that if you actually had enough cash to buy the things that you like in RL, you'd realize that they are just that, things. Their value to you is what you can do with them, that's all. I know that modern consumerism preaches owning as much stuff as you can, but sooner or later you wake up and realize it's all worthless unless it brings you joy. And for things to bring you joy, you don't need to own them.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Farmer ISK prices have dropped to the lowest point I have ever seen them in the past 2 years. Meanwhile GTC prices are surpassing 500 million per code. Players are paying twice as much per month of game time in ISK as they used to a year ago. Many are closing down their alt accounts because they find it difficult not only to save up half a billion ISK but also to simply find a game time code seller nowadays.

May be it is time to allocate more personnel and hours to crackdown on those farmer conglomerates and all those bots, macros, ISK spammers etc that we keep reporting?

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand.
playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently.

---

Originally by: Wet Ferret

---

Um, GTC prices rose because CCP nearly doubled their price.

And not everyone buys them with ISK because they're too "cheap". Some people can barely afford luxuries in RL because they are disabled or raising kids or whatever, or maybe have credit problems so can't just charge it to a CC. But really it's none of your ****ing business why someone can't pay for a game with a CC (trying to pay for EVE with cash is a right pain in the ass) and must resort to GTC purchases. You are out of place telling other what they should and should not be able to afford in RL.

CCP screwed over a specific portion of their customers and they deserve all the flak they get for it. Personally, I'm only playing EVE until it gets tiring farming so much ISK just to pay for game time, aside from the ISK I need to actually enjoy the game. And I don't care if you'll miss me, you're all a bunch of *******s anyway. This community is garbage compared to what it was four years ago when I started playing.

---

Originally by: masternerdguy

---

you know, ccp should just allow macro mining and make automated mining drones

---

Originally by: Victor Kruger

---

I did a little research on current Isk prices. 1 Billion Isk costs between 31 and 35 USD when purchased through "shady" sources. One 60 day GTC amounts to 35 USD as well and will currently bring in around 500 Million Isk when sold to other players. In other words:

Isk received for GTC's on the Forums = GTC value in USD = Isk purchased from shady sources minus the risk factor of getting caught

When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received. From this reasoning we could assume, that the risk factor in the above example is 500 Million Isk (half the value of the purchase).

Now, CCP doesn't catch every player. I'm not even sure how vigilant they are at finding these people, considering the enormous slack they show when it comes to downing RMT farmers. So in the end, the risk factor is an unknown value somewhere between 50% and 0%.

Conclusion: Potentially, the GTC prices for 60 day cards could climb to 1 Billion Isk each, although this scenario is highly unlikely and would require absolute apathy from CCP when it comes to Isk buyer hunting.

---

Originally by: Clair Bear

---

Just saw a farmer ISK spam for $33/billion. Now, remember that the average IQ out there is 100, and half the people are dumber than that.

Assuming they can do basic math they can figure out that buying a billion ISK and spending it on two 60 day timecards gets them game time at roughly $8/month.

Duno how many people are that dumb; but it could be a factor.

---

Originally by: Weakmind

---

When CCP catches a player who has bought Isk from shady sources, he usually gets deducted the double amount he received. From this reasoning we could assume, that the risk factor in the above example is 500 Million Isk (half the value of the purchase).

---

Originally by: Wet Ferret

---

Um, GTC prices rose because CCP nearly doubled their price.

---

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

---

I believe it is the other way around, they aren't being caught so their isk supplies are increasing, however what I think you meant was the buyers are getting caught so fewer players are buying the isk thus increasing the farmers supply and leaving less of a paper trail so they have more farmers not getting banned.

as for gtc prices going up that would be because the farmers have more isk and more farmers. 1 account can gather up 500mil in 2 months quite easy, hell at 10mil/hr (a somewhat low number) it would take 50 hours that is like a week worth of working. so that is 500mil/week for 8 weeks -> 4billion in 2 months, so taking 3.5billion to sell and 500mil for another gtc. I expect gtc prices to rise if anything.

of course this completely ****s over people that are playing for a few hours a day after school/work

now if the supply of people selling gtcs went up it might be a different story.

makes me wish I had a few thousand dollars to blow try and bring the price to about 300mil where I was speculating it would fall prechange.

---

Originally by: Zhenga

---

Well I support Bush and John McCain. Bush has not ruined my economy. Osama Obama will destroy it tho Sad. I guess I better get selling these GTC's. Sounds like it would be cheap iskies.

---

Originally by: Le Skunk

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Which is what is happening on the GTC forum right now. Real player buyers are being replaced with customers like jinguyang sdhoiufu and golndgold who can afford paying 500-600 mil ISK no problems since they are farming the game 23/7.

---

Dont fhuck with jinguyang sdhoiufu! He will PK you ass!

SKUNK

---

Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather

---

Bush has absolutly messed up the american economy. We are paying for a war, he lied to get us into. Paying stupid prices for gas, paying stupid prices for food and other "services" etc.

I guess $5.00 a gallon for gas doesn't affect you much

---

Originally by: heheheh

---

Wrong,
I can buy real items with my money stuff that is actually mine, no matter how much you pay for your ISK, CCP can stop the game and take it back at any time.

---

Originally by: Veldya

---

Edited by: Veldya on 14/09/2008 11:01:46

I'm no isk farming expert like some other posters (I have no reason to check their prices or monitor them) but I would imagine prices are based on supply, demand, stock level and competition.

I really haven't seen in-game prices vary that dramatically in the last 6 months so I would assume a drop in the price is largely due to over-supply or competition.

If ISK farmer A keeps undercutting ISK farmer B and he is not selling as much and his stock goes up and his income come down he will drop the price to move some stock. That goes on and on until it hits an equilibrium between supply, demand, stock level and competition.

If prices drop too low then demand will likely thrive until stock starts to deplete then prices will push back up.

That is my guess. If CCP was effective in eliminating the ISK farmers you would think the prices would skyrocket as competition and stock levels would make supply the biggest factor.

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:54:16

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Oh, and people with jobs who are willing to pay to play.

---

I work and go to school, but paying for all my accounts with cash would amount to over $100 monthly for a game. For me it is not worth it, but i am wondering if it was worth to CCP to do this. First force players to close down additional accounts and consolidate characters, and then start offering additional accounts for cheap with Power of Two. Doesn't make much sense, srsly.

All the flamers crying "PAY FOR TEH GAMEZ!!!111" i guess you guys don't understand what "alt accounts" means in the OP?

---

Originally by: Capri Corn

---

I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about what Mankirks Wife is saying...
Unless you enjoy mining, you are doing it to make ISK. That is working, and it is no different from someone working for dollars and then converting those dollars into ISK.

---

Originally by: Charney deGeoff

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,

---

Dude.. you're arguing that.. on, erm, the Internet.. and like on virtual spaceship game boards.
You're one of those types who don't pay for EVE? or for your Internet connection? Or for your electricity?
Damn, now I'm jealous (unless your parents pay for all that, in which case, I'm not very jealous at all).

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Which is what is happening on the GTC forum right now. Real player buyers are being replaced with customers like jinguyang sdhoiufu and golndgold who can afford paying 500-600 mil ISK no problems since they are farming the game 23/7.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

Im still in the belief that people that buy virtual cash with RL money are either stupid or dont value their cash at all.

---

Originally by: Alz Shado

---

Eve needs more ISK Sinks. If you want to blame anyone for the price of GTCs going up, blame invention lowering the cost of T2 ships to sub-100m levels.

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Alz Shado

---

Eve needs more ISK Sinks. If you want to blame anyone for the price of GTCs going up, blame invention lowering the cost of T2 ships to sub-100m levels.

---

Sooooà what does T2 manufacturing have to do with ISK sinks? The price of any manufactured goods makes no difference on the amount of ISK in the game.

---

Originally by: Alz Shado

---

Isk Faucet in terms of the player's economy, not necessarily the economy as a whole. T2 is the best indicator of the value of ISK because there's no (meaningful) isk-faucet Insurance reimbursement system for them. When a player loses a 75m ISK HAC, they lose 75m ISK.

---

Originally by: Chelone

---

400M / 90day = 4.44M / day
500M / 60day = 8.33M / day

87.5% increase in price since I last bought a timecode. I think I'd rather work a few extra hours at my job than grind a billion every 2 months for 2 accounts. Ridiculous.

---

Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather

---

Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 15/09/2008 02:05:21

Originally by: Zhenga

---

Well I support Bush and John McCain. Bush has not ruined my economy. Osama Obama will destroy it tho Sad. I guess I better get selling these GTC's. Sounds like it would be cheap iskies.

---

What dream world are you living in? Bush has absolutly messed up the american economy. We are paying for a war, he lied to get us into. Paying stupid prices for gas, paying stupid prices for food and other "services" etc.

I guess $5.00 a gallon for gas doesn't affect you much, but I pay $55.00 a fuel up in a car that is easy on gas. Unfortunatly, I also have to drive a lot because of my job which means I am paying close to $325.00 a month for fuel. I don't make a lot of money, and have had to scale back a huge amount. EVE is next on the cutting back block if I am to keep my job (i.e. have fuel for my car). I would buy a cheaper more economical car.... but I get awesome gas mileage in my prius (45mpg) and it don't get much better than that.

Bush and his OIL BARON *****s have absolutly screwed the economy. And anyone who doesn't see that is either living with mommy and daddy or has a job that pays significantly better than the average american has. I'll assume you have the job as you don't strike me as a teen.

Storm

*edit I am also NOT an Obama supporter. I personally think American Politics is an Oligarchy...


Oligarchy
ol+i+gar+chy /ˈɒlɪˌgɑrki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ol-i-gahr-kee]
ûnoun, plural -chies.
1.a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.
2.a state or organization so ruled.
3.the persons or class so ruling.

A "two" party government is just two sides of the same coin. American Government stopped being "for the people, of the people" when "parties" came into vogue. Take a close note of who's in Office. NONE of them are less than Millionaires. NONE of them are any different than their "opposing" party members. You have two parties full of criminals self deluded into thinking they have the right to power and control. Seriously, we should just .302 the entire government and start from scratch.

storm...

---

Originally by: Aliedora

---

most of you who are whining here should just be happy there is an option to pay for the game with in-game money, I can't think of any other online games where that's allowed.

personally I'm loving the current situation. don't really care as to what causes the inflation or what the consequence will be, but I hate grind and don't have hours and hours to spend in EVE every day earning money. luckily, I earn enough in RL to afford to sell a couple of GTCs here or there to get some extra ISK for a new character or ship and to generally fund my affairs. I just hope the prices will continue to rise :)

flame away.

---

Originally by: Alz Shado

---

Eve needs more ISK Sinks. If you want to blame anyone for the price of GTCs going up, blame invention lowering the cost of T2 ships to sub-100m levels.

The more ISK people have to spend, the more ways they'll spend it. The best way to turn all that mission reward into something tangible is to trade it for RL Cash - GTCs save you real money.

---

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

---

Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 15/09/2008 20:24:40
MORE ISK SINKS!

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

How ****ing hard can it be to rustle up an extra $15 a month? Mow some old persons lawn, cut out 3 packs of cigs a month, don't buy that lame cd with only 1 passable hit on it, buy one cheap meal in place of an expensive one, save the change from all your monthly purchases and start 3 new accounts with it, 8373205 other ways to make $15 measly bucks.

Kids nowadays.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 14/09/2008 14:37:13

Originally by: Pan Crastus

---

Edited by: Pan Crastus on 14/09/2008 14:12:19

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

i feel sorry for people like you that seem to think your time has a value, i think the purchasing of Pixels for RL cash is ridiculous and only those with more money than sense actually do it.

---

You don't get it. People are paying to have fun in the game (a.k.a. PVP) because making ISK isn't fun (in most cases). Buying ISK is not in any way worse than grinding many hours for it, people whose time has no value in RL seem to overlook that fact.

Does not apply for the few people who are actually enjoying mining and other mind-numbing activities in EVE, of course they won't buy ISK.

As for the old "RL cash for pixels" argument - RL money is also just numbers, it's worth nothing unless you do something with it that you enjoy.

---

I get it perfectly well thanks you i just dont aggree with you,
Try to justify it to me however you like, you cant, each to his own.
I like to spend my cash on real items that i can touch and hold, thats the difference,
only those with more money than sense buy pixels for cash, and thats the bottom line.

---

Originally by: Steve Hawkings

---

yea but thats not the point, you picked up on somthing totally different.
we all rent pixels for cash but we are discussing Buying pixelated cash which is not even yours for RL cash.

---

Originally by: Imiarr Timshae

---

Honestly, the "Get a job" crap is really not a good idea for all of us.

I'm a university student who will soon be living on ú0.50 or $0.25 a day.

Thats including the work I will be getting.

(Going to lose a LOT of weight )

---

Originally by: Imiarr Timshae

---

Honestly, the "Get a job" crap is really not a good idea for all of us.

I'm a university student who will soon be living on ú0.50 or $0.25 a day.

Thats including the work I will be getting.

(Going to lose a LOT of weight )

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

If you're living on ú182.50 a year, I suggest getting a slightly better job.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Imiarr Timshae

---

Honestly, the "Get a job" crap is really not a good idea for all of us.

I'm a university student who will soon be living on ú0.50 or $0.25 a day.

Thats including the work I will be getting.

(Going to lose a LOT of weight )

---

If you're living on ú182.50 a year, I suggest getting a slightly better job.

---

Originally by: Banana Torres

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

And me.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:53:33

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

It works the other way:
farmers prices drop
people buy less and less GTCs and more farmed ISKs
gtc prices rise due to lack of supply
people close down their additional accounts being unable to afford them
farmers sell moar isk, ccp sells less game time
game suffers (not dies, just suffers)

I watch farmer ISK prices because they are typically one of the indicators where the GTC prices will go, up or down
Not because i buy ISK.

---

Originally by: Doddy

---

I would think the RMT prices are dropping because less people are buying isk for fear of getting their capitals repossessed thanks to all the forum threads of "ccp stole my titan" etc.

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Imiarr Timshae

---

Honestly, the "Get a job" crap is really not a good idea for all of us.

I'm a university student who will soon be living on ú0.50 or $0.25 a day.

Thats including the work I will be getting.

(Going to lose a LOT of weight )

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

EPeople are saying their isn't enough ISK sinks and such to help the GTC market, yet the GTC market is an ISK sink.

---

Originally by: Ceremony Garp

---

I have bought GTC's in the past when I didn't have access to credit card facilities - i.e, I don't have one.

I've also not played any other online game, so imagine my surprise when I discovered that I could still play EvE and [using their ingame resources], be able to pay for my game? Awesome!

CCP must be losing money on this, no? I mean, no financial transaction takes place, yet I can still play by either running missions or mining, and using the ISK generated to buy a code that allows me to play for another month or so, right?

I just don't geddit - but I'm not complaining!

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

Eve isn't casual and carefree enough to be thought of as much else but a 2nd job anyway....

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ceremony Garp

---

I have bought GTC's in the past when I didn't have access to credit card facilities - i.e, I don't have one.

I've also not played any other online game, so imagine my surprise when I discovered that I could still play EvE and [using their ingame resources], be able to pay for my game? Awesome!

CCP must be losing money on this, no? I mean, no financial transaction takes place, yet I can still play by either running missions or mining, and using the ISK generated to buy a code that allows me to play for another month or so, right?

I just don't geddit - but I'm not complaining!

---

What? Why would CCP be losing money? Player A buys a GTC from CCP for dollars and sells it to player B for ISK.

---

Quote:

---

Um, not to flame you or anything, but if you find EVE to be more like work than fun, then may I humbly suggest playing something else for awhile? If you are in corp leadership, hand the reigns to someone else for a bit and go outside. NO game should EVER feel like work. The moment it does is the moment to walk away...

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:53:33

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Can someone explain this to me because i dont really get it:
GTC becomes more expensive to buy with isk ->
People who buy gtc and sell them for isk get more isk in return ->
Those who want to buy isk with real money got less reason to use illegal ways to buyt it from farmers ->
Farmers make less profit, or got to lower their prices to keep demand up and still make less profit ->
Farmers go to farm in another game since it isnt profitable anymore in eve

Which part am i missing?

---

It works the other way:
farmers prices drop
people buy less and less GTCs and more farmed ISKs
gtc prices rise due to lack of supply
people close down their additional accounts being unable to afford them
farmers sell moar isk, ccp sells less game time
game suffers (not dies, just suffers)

I watch farmer ISK prices because they are typically one of the indicators where the GTC prices will go, up or down
Not because i buy ISK.

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

People are saying their isn't enough ISK sinks and such to help the GTC market, yet the GTC market is an ISK sink. Just because the economy is inflating and people are getting priced out.

Why is it so different from moaning that you want a 100 mill battleship but you only feel like paying 50 million cause you remember they were 50 mill this one time.

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

I don't think farmers are your problem. I simply don't think there's even enough of them to effect the GTC market that drasticly. They only make up about 5% tops of the playerbase from what I've seen.

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

Ok, you are both slightly wrong and slightly right.

The underlying fact you have both missed is that GTC's are more expensive in real money now for EU and GBP. Equiv of ú20 for 60 days gtc VS ú7.50 for 30 days.

If you calculate that with average prices that a 30 day GTC used to go for - say 180 mil, then convert that to ú per isk = ú1 used to buy you 24,000,000 isk.

Now, to get the same isk for your ú1 you have to sell a 60 day GTC at 480,000,000 isk.

On top of that people who paid money for GTC to run the game, not to sell, have seen a huge price increase. And they have to lay out more money at a time to buy GTC for use and/or for selling. It is only natural that numbers of people selling GTC's would fall slightly, and this in turn both creates higher prices and also more price instability (fewer sellers, less of a perfect market, price fluctuates more).

---

Originally by: Dipluz

---

To this failthread from poor people I say get a job, get some balls, and pay to play. that was the eve I started playing in the first place was, and now theres WAY to many kids, so the more expensive GTC are the more happy I am.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

Ok, you are both slightly wrong and slightly right.

The underlying fact you have both missed is that GTC's are more expensive in real money now for EU and GBP. Equiv of ú20 for 60 days gtc VS ú7.50 for 30 days.

If you calculate that with average prices that a 30 day GTC used to go for - say 180 mil, then convert that to ú per isk = ú1 used to buy you 24,000,000 isk.

Now, to get the same isk for your ú1 you have to sell a 60 day GTC at 480,000,000 isk.

On top of that people who paid money for GTC to run the game, not to sell, have seen a huge price increase. And they have to lay out more money at a time to buy GTC for use and/or for selling. It is only natural that numbers of people selling GTC's would fall slightly, and this in turn both creates higher prices and also more price instability (fewer sellers, less of a perfect market, price fluctuates more).

---

The conversion ratio of real money into ISK has fallen drastically irregardless of whether you are buying codes from North American or Europe.
Old conversion of $15 game time code sold for 180 mil ISK: $83/billion ISK
New conversion of $34 game time code sold for 500 mil ISK: $68/billion ISK

To get the same conversion ratio with the new 60d code you would have to sell them for about 400 million ISK which is what the price has been entire summer, until the recent hike up to 500 mil.

It doesn't matter if this is euros or dollars because europeans can right now buy them for $34, which is an increase of about $2.50 per month. So yes, GTCs are slightly more expensive, but does this really warrant such a huge drop in conversion ratio?

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

---

EPeople are saying their isn't enough ISK sinks and such to help the GTC market, yet the GTC market is an ISK sink.

---

How so? It just moves the ISK around between people ù none is destroyed in the process, afaik. Redistribution ≠ sink.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

---

Originally by: Locus Bey

---

Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

It's the conversation from US to Euro and ú that made the old GTC very cheap to buy for a period for EU and UK residents. CCP changed the prices of GTC's because of this exchange rate disparity to put it back in line with all non US currencies. If you look at things in dollar's it doesn't make sense, but if you look at the very low cost of dollar to UK and EU for past couple of years in does make sense. And there are enough non US residents playing the game for this to have had a huge effect on price of isk to buy GTC's.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 16/09/2008 14:16:29

Originally by: Cautet

---

It's the conversation from US to Euro and ú that made the old GTC very cheap to buy for a period for EU and UK residents. CCP changed the prices of GTC's because of this exchange rate disparity to put it back in line with all non US currencies. If you look at things in dollar's it doesn't make sense, but if you look at the very low cost of dollar to UK and EU for past couple of years in does make sense. And there are enough non US residents playing the game for this to have had a huge effect on price of isk to buy GTC's.

---

The slight increase in the price of the game time codes in both euro and dollar does not explain the way the conversion ratio of money->ISK has fallen. This conversion ratio does not depend on currency. The prices on codes should have obviously gone up, but the conversion ratio should have stayed same as it has been holding since last summer.

Here is what it looks like in euros. 30 day game time codes could be about for about 9eu (15 in dollars). The new 60 day game time code costs 22.30 eu.
9 eu for 180 mil = 50 eu/bil
22.30 for 500 mil = 44.6 eu/bil
Once again, even in euros the ISK has become cheaper to buy.

---

Originally by: Evanade

---

Remove insurance, change basic payout to 25% of base value, nerf highsec missions to net alot less ISK and change it so that NPC's drop only named items and no plain t1, and alot less named at that. Balance NPC ISK reward just like missions LP rewards, the more that get killed the lower their value becomes.

That should get the eve economy going in the right direction..

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Which is what is happening on the GTC forum right now. Real player buyers are being replaced with customers like jinguyang sdhoiufu and golndgold who can afford paying 500-600 mil ISK no problems since they are farming the game 23/7.

---

Originally by: Mahke

---

"My conclusion is that a very significant event happened recently to GTC's, which was a price increase in dollars. Surely you would agree that this is the significant driving factor, even if you do not agree with my figures. otherwise the isk prices of GTC's would have stayed the same for GTC's or risen independantly of any changes to the GTC cos in dollarst."

You don't get it. Assuming price is completely dependent on seller-end demand for isk (which should overvalue GTCs!), the price per day of game time should have gone up while the isk/dollar ratio remains the same. So higher prices, but same ratio. That the ratio changed means greater and other forces are at work. And the people talking about dollars vs. Euro's/pounds don't know what they are talking about -- the dollar as been recovering recently, not weakening further.

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 11:05:56
Edited by: Tasuk on 14/09/2008 10:37:23

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

the fact that the isk is cheap means they are getting cuaght, the less demand the lower the prices go.

in other words people would rather trade GTCs than buy isk because CCP is doing a damn good job.

if this continues it will be all GTC and isk farmers will eve forever as there is no more demand.
playrs won't be paying 450 million isk for 60 for long, it's all based on how fast the time is selling. and it seems like the gametime is selling damn quick resently.

---

Actually when farmers are having a hard time their ISK becomes more expensive, not cheaper. Remember the time that Goons waged a jihad on all the high sec farmers? And suicide killed probably hundreds of mining barges? Well if you were watching the farmer ISK prices at that time they jumped about 20-30% upward, not downward (and actually at the same time GTC prices have come down a bit). High ISK prices indicate farmers are in trouble. Low ISK prices means they are farming in easy mode, which is what is happening now.

---

Originally by: Borg 6517

---

600mil now this is insane in next 2 months there will only bots and farmers playing this game

---

Originally by: Dashhammer II

---

Let me put this to bed.

Some of you were half right in your assertions. The reason that GTC prices are up is because of the loss of paying customers. People have to BUY the GTC in order to sell it. The fewer those people there are, the higher they can sell them for. Supply of GTC = Down.

The reason that farmed isk is so low is because the isk farmers have perfected their craft. With CCP moving it's support staff onto the new project and making cutbacks on non-essential personnel there has been less policing of the isk farmers and less effective policing too. Last year it seemed that CCP came up with the idea to punish the buyers of the isk as much as possible on the idea that 'If there is a demand there will always be a supply'. This was a logical assumption but it backfired since if you punish a buyer and not the seller, then the seller progresses from the exchange since the buyer is now in greater need of the seller's services, which the seller is happy to help out with since he is basically entering into a golden era.

Lets do a hypothetical.

Farmerman sells Playerdude 100m isk. Playerdude brags about it on the help channel and an Admin immeadately fines him 100m isk. (It helps that there are very few rules which prohibit GMs from doing this sort of thing with out proof. With out an audit system or any kind of redundancy, GMs can fine people on a whim) So now playerdude is -100m isk since he spent all the money that he bought.

Playerdude has three options. Option one, he can quit eve. In this case he makes a poor 'example' for the GMs to use as a warning to isk buyers since he no longer plays.

Option two, he makes another character. Possible but not likely. Battleship V takes a bazillion years to train, especially with out implants.

Option three, yep, you guessed it, he buys more isk from farmerman to cover his loss. More isk WHICH as it turns out is now half the price since farmerman has had a really great month of sales with little to no admin intervention.

---------------

I went down into a low sec region about a year ago, I won't say which one. I went down with a 5 man gank squad to look for easy kills and the things I saw scared the hell out of me. Haulers... armies of them. Running hauling missions like ants. They walked through the gate like we weren't even there, all macro-d, they paid no attention to us. I felt like I was trapped on a borg cube while drones walked around staring blankly forward. We popped one and found some mission items on him. No one reacted, no one said anything, the haulers kept walking through the gate like nothing had happened.

I pulled my team out. These guys have isk making down to a fine science. We could sit there and pop haulers all day but we'd make no money from it and at the end of the day, these farmers would loose none either. They had worked out the math.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

What about Option #4: he buys a GTC and sells it for 600M ISK?

---

Originally by: Mahke

---

The Euro/pound to dollar argument is irrelevant because the ratio has increased in the short term, while the dollar was been doing better against the two other currencies. The dollar was growing stronger while the GTC isk/dollar price ratio was rising (thus making it rise even faster against Euro/Pound). The previous weakness of the dollar is irrelevant. We are talking about change within a given timeframe. And in this timeframe real world changes in dollar value put DOWNWARD pressure on GTC prices.

"It certainly makes more sense than blaming it on factors such as "greed of gtc sellers" which is unquantifiable (I am not suggesting that this was your explanation) and makes more sense also than suggesting it is caused mainly, soley, or significantly, by isk sellers - when these same isk sellers have not been able to manipulate the cost of isk in gtc terms before (you admit isk to gtc ration has stayed the same for considerable period of time AND that during that period isk sellers were also operating)."

Here I agree with you, somewhat. The whole "greed of gtc" sellers thing is ludicrous. On the RMT isk seller issue, I don't know, it could be what is happening, could not, I don't understand that market enough to make a guess either way. However, something has changed, and it is not due to real world currency changes and it is higher in magnitude than can possibly be caused by the change to less efficient 60 day cars.

---

Originally by: Dashhammer II

---

The reason that farmed isk is so low is because the isk farmers have perfected their craft.

---

Originally by: Panzerkom

---

hmmm, i remember seeing tons of spam in the rookie channel from isk sellers, anyone know what they're selling it for now? is there really that much of an imbalance right now?

---

Originally by: Richard Angevian

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

What about Option #4: he buys a GTC and sells it for 600M ISK?

---

Why do that when the same amount of cash can buy nearly twice that?

---

Originally by: Doddy

---

Highly unlikely tbh. I would think the RMT prices are dropping because less people are buying isk for fear of getting their capitals repossessed thanks to all the forum threads of "ccp stole my titan" etc.

---

Originally by: Doddy

---

GTC prices are going up simply because people have more isk to spend.

---

Originally by: Doddy

---

The % of people who were buying GTCs but would switch to RMT at the drop of the hat is probably very small, you are either willing to break the EULA or not, a few $ other way isn't going to make much diff.

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

60day GTC = US 35 = around EURO 25 - that's my calculation anyhow. I'm prepared to accept the 9 euro for 30 days.

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

Average prices at the moment are between 460 and 480 million isk for GTC 60 rather than 500 mil. 1 euro = around 19.2 mil isk. 1 bil isk costs around 52 euro/bil (on 480 eu/bil)

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

I'm willing to accept that the isk/eu ratio is around the same though as before.

---

Quote:

---

In dollars, you get slightly more dollar per isk (around 10% more isk)

---

Quote:

---

My conclusion is that a very significant event happened recently to GTC's, which was a price increase in dollars. Surely you would agree that this is the significant driving factor, even if you do not agree with my figures.

---

Originally by: Cautet

---

and makes more sense also than suggesting it is caused mainly, soley, or significantly, by isk sellers - when these same isk sellers have not been able to manipulate the cost of isk in gtc terms before (you admit isk to gtc ration has stayed the same for considerable period of time AND that during that period isk sellers were also operating).

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

How ****ing hard can it be to rustle up an extra $15 a month? Mow some old persons lawn, cut out 3 packs of cigs a month, don't buy that lame cd with only 1 passable hit on it, buy one cheap meal in place of an expensive one, save the change from all your monthly purchases and start 3 new accounts with it, 8373205 other ways to make $15 measly bucks.

Kids nowadays.

---

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

---

heh and to think of Akita T's how to earn a gtc on a trial thread now

---

Originally by: notaforumalt

---

annnnd, 30 days went for 340m (then down to 160m)

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: notaforumalt

---

annnnd, 30 days went for 340m (then down to 160m)

---

I traded game time codes and 30d never ever went for 340 mil. If you want scroll the forums and you see 220-230 was top price and even then it was major patch time (trinity) with new ships being released. If someone sold you one for this price, sorry, but you got majorly screwed

---

Originally by: notaforumalt

---

Edited by: notaforumalt on 18/09/2008 05:22:02

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Originally by: notaforumalt

---

annnnd, 30 days went for 340m (then down to 160m)

---

I traded game time codes and 30d never ever went for 340 mil. If you want scroll the forums and you see 220-230 was top price and even then it was major patch time (trinity) with new ships being released. If someone sold you one for this price, sorry, but you got majorly screwed

---

at one time they were 340m, for 30 days, the last few sold for 220-230 sure, but 220x2(2x30day)=420m, the increased cost, and bam 480m, and the insane prices are where?? its balanced...

---

Originally by: Algey

---

If people were closing their alt accounts in droves the price of GTC's would come down sharply.

The real reason that I think the cards are becoming more expensive is that with them being for 60 days they are a bigger cash investment, which deters the 30 day code sellers from buying a 60.

As for the illegal isk being sold so cheaply, could be that people have realised that CCP will take their bought isk and have stopped buying it, leading to a serious surpless of isk for sale, and a slump in prices.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Algey

---

If people were closing their alt accounts in droves the price of GTC's would come down sharply.

The real reason that I think the cards are becoming more expensive is that with them being for 60 days they are a bigger cash investment, which deters the 30 day code sellers from buying a 60.

As for the illegal isk being sold so cheaply, could be that people have realised that CCP will take their bought isk and have stopped buying it, leading to a serious surpless of isk for sale, and a slump in prices.

---

How does reducing demand increase prices?

---

Originally by: Tasuk

---

Edited by: Tasuk on 18/09/2008 17:14:24
This guy sold his batch of 4x 60d codes for 500 within 3 minutes. And buyers were asking if there are any left and lamenting in russian that they didn't get to it faster:

---