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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Prodigious	Posted - 2004.06.17 01:12:00 - [31] didnt test the 1400's.. cuz i dont fly bs's. i'll give u that one. but 720's hit just fine if youre facing the target and +/- 5km within optimal.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.06.17 01:37:00 - [32] I gotta agree with Ulrich here. The problem is that tracking has such an enormous effect now, matter of fact, it's two-fold - used for both the ship's movement, AND the ship's size. So, for the 1400mm, this means that you have the lovely magic of both having stuff all chance to hit because the target is moving AND stuff all chance to hit because of the ship'size, so smaller ships get you two ways (since they have higher base speeds anyway!). It's all a bit much, really. Having weapons unable to hit ANYTHING at their optimal range is crazy. That all said, and I know you don't want to hear this, but tracking computers really do make a phenomenal difference now. I'm even seriously considering throwing on lowslot tracking enhancers instead of damage mods on my Tempest.
Drift Spec	Posted - 2004.06.17 01:58:00 - [33] Guys don't try to hit them at "optimal range" I'm running 1400's still on my tempest equipped with EMP. I have no problem hitting BS's or Cruisers. "but" I am not firing at optimal range, I am firing at Optimal + fallout range... works a charm, last night I did 900+ damage for 1 hit to a cruiser, with majority of hits doing 200 - 400 per hit. If I fire at "optimal" it doesn't do much at all. I am also using 2 tracking CPU's to get this result, you dont have to sacrifice to much if you use medium ones IMO. The 1400 is still alive, you just have to test out where u get the best hits, and make sure you use tracking comps.
LJSilver	Posted - 2004.06.17 02:14:00 - [34] Har! U all asked for he missile nerf, so CCP delivered the turret nerf. Ain't u all ever gonna learn, that these people are sadists. Quit whining and move on. http://www.liketelevision.com/web1/classictv/longjohn/longjohn210.gif
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.06.17 02:41:00 - [35] Since minmatar ships are fastest and most agile, maybe the idea was to manually track targets by turning your ship around? You know, creating jump gates and warp disruptors is easy physics, but making a gun tracking its target is damn hard! If it makes you feel any better, rails suck too. Im parking my megathron and buying a raven, at least missile hit. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Pa1nbringr	Posted - 2004.06.17 03:52:00 - [36] yup the projectile crap is rediculous ---------------------- Fedaykin Naib > eh this is boring, think im going to go choke one out Pa1nbringr > sick Fedaykin Naib > lol
Knat	Posted - 2004.06.17 04:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Drift Spec Guys don't try to hit them at "optimal range" I'm running 1400's still on my tempest equipped with EMP. I have no problem hitting BS's or Cruisers. "but" I am not firing at optimal range, I am firing at Optimal + fallout range... works a charm, last night I did 900+ damage for 1 hit to a cruiser, with majority of hits doing 200 - 400 per hit. If I fire at "optimal" it doesn't do much at all. I am also using 2 tracking CPU's to get this result, you dont have to sacrifice to much if you use medium ones IMO. The 1400 is still alive, you just have to test out where u get the best hits, and make sure you use tracking comps. I had the same experience. but i use Large smartbombs against the frigs.
Wraithwind	Posted - 2004.06.17 05:19:00 - [38] Edited by: Wraithwind on 17/06/2004 05:20:14 We are now looking at nothing but missles for our race, I'm running lvl 3 missions in my rupture right now and the best way to kill them is to close to 30-35k and stay at that distance with them chasing me, my turrets are useless at this range so I just use missles after missle. Sure, I can toss some non-EMP ammo but I'm doing very very little damage. This game went from great to real crappy fast in my book. Our race just got nerfed and I'm now wondering if I should even keep playing.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.06.17 05:55:00 - [39] Still managed to get a wrecking of 450 from my 720 Scouts. That's on a Maller without mods and its my second best on record for a medium gun. My best is 497 on the same ship without mods. I do my missions on a cruiser as it is much easier to hit things with a medium gun. Against a mission or a spawn, you need to come in at a distance and snipe away. If they come after you, you need to maintain your distance by retreating. Always retreat in the opposite direction where your guns are firing at. Even with large lasers I noticed a lot of misses. The fall off nerf affects the blasters badly since the targets have to be much closer now and this severely strains the tracking limits of the guns. In missions, with a bs I warped in at 40km, then start hitting away at the frigs first. Neve let them get close to you. If they do, use drones and missiles, and switch your guns on the target cruiser instead. Scout and Medium drones now are your best friends. Use them. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Tsual	Posted - 2004.06.17 06:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Drift Spec Guys don't try to hit them at "optimal range" I'm running 1400's still on my tempest equipped with EMP. I have no problem hitting BS's or Cruisers. "but" I am not firing at optimal range, I am firing at Optimal + fallout range... works a charm, last night I did 900+ damage for 1 hit to a cruiser, with majority of hits doing 200 - 400 per hit. If I fire at "optimal" it doesn't do much at all. I am also using 2 tracking CPU's to get this result, you dont have to sacrifice to much if you use medium ones IMO. The 1400 is still alive, you just have to test out where u get the best hits, and make sure you use tracking comps. I experience similar before this patch, best hits with 200mm ACs loaded with depleted Uranium I scored not at 1000m but somewhere between 5000m and 6000m. (falloff 4500m and optimal range 1150m for me due to skills) At 1000 m I scored lower hits. Additional someone two days ago, shot down a frigat 80km away with one shot of a 1400mm. It might be that now this thing becomes more eminent, as trackign plays a bigger role plus signature radius. (I guess the Signature resolution of a gun could be implented in the formular something like this: signature of target ship/signature resolution = chance to hit modifier, though that would need testing.) -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar.

Subedai	Posted - 2004.06.17 07:13:00 - [41] I can see perhaps ccp want minmatar ships to be fast mwding short range machine gunners. One problem i have with this is a blaster does like 2-3x more damage - if u want us to act like blasterthrons give autocannons hits similar to a blaster. I practiced on a corpm8 in a mega, i was scoring perhaps 30dmg hits he had 80+ hits and even did a wrecking for 400dmg! As far as death of projectiles + minmatar this slight imbalance doesnt help either, hell im almost thinking my typhoon would be better with blasters.
Kalarin	Posted - 2004.06.17 08:12:00 - [42] Edited by: Kalarin on 17/06/2004 08:15:48 From my testing on TQ - projectives now can hit only if enemy come to you or come out of you or stop at place. In other situation - it miss a most of times. And we can't hit BS from BS if enemy BS are moving not to you or not from you. Also falloff reduced TOO much - for example 800mm can hit from 15km to 32km ONLY (EMP) (And completely NO hit at optimal range). Projectives now completely useless, the best weapon now - missiles, it hit ALL TIMES at ALL flight time You can hit frigs from 1km from you with cruise or torpedos - missiles are SUPER WEAPON now
Hornymatt	Posted - 2004.06.17 08:14:00 - [43] Refitted my Tempest with 5 named 250mm rails and 3 heavy launchers for npc / mission running. It's embarassing i know but at least i can hit things now. Even more annoying is that having got to Min BS 5 last month i am only a couple of days away from Large Projectiles 5, guess i may as well see that through before maxing out my med hybrid skills
HarryManback	Posted - 2004.06.17 08:56:00 - [44] Edited by: HarryManback on 17/06/2004 08:59:56 i have been npcing a fair bit after the patch and have noticed afew things. With 1400s: From about 70k to my optimal(37k) i hit fairly well(200-400) but not as often as before. switched to 650mm and 800mm cos i wanted ot do constant dmg I hit for about 80-100 with these guns. Was hunting a Arch Angel General tonite and as i was going in close i put on a webby. My other friend in a tempest who is still using 1400s said as soon as i put the webby on the target his hits "were like before the patch". I also noticed my hits with my 650/800s went up as well. Only problem we had was this was when we killed the BS with the webby on we didnt get any loot can. One thing people need to realise though is just because you are hunting NPCs ok doesnt mean nothing is broken. All npcs head straight towards you till they are close, so tracking isnt as much of a factor in this situation as transversal velocity doesnt come into play as much. In a fleet battle its alot different and you cant expect 1400 pilots only game to be webbified targets. Tracking definately needs a tweak from what alot of people have been experiencing. ----------------------------------------- Spiderman reminds me of adolesence. One day a teenage guy wakes up with muscles, hair in new places and the ability to spray white sticky goo around the house.
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.06.17 09:33:00 - [45] Originally by: HarryManback Edited by: HarryManback on 17/06/2004 08:59:56 i have been npcing a fair bit after the patch and have noticed afew things. With 1400s: From about 70k to my optimal(37k) i hit fairly well(200-400) but not as often as before. switched to 650mm and 800mm cos i wanted ot do constant dmg I hit for about 80-100 with these guns. Was hunting a Arch Angel General tonite and as i was going in close i put on a webby. My other friend in a tempest who is still using 1400s said as soon as i put the webby on the target his hits "were like before the patch". I also noticed my hits with my 650/800s went up as well. Only problem we had was this was when we killed the BS with the webby on we didnt get any loot can. One thing people need to realise though is just because you are hunting NPCs ok doesnt mean nothing is broken. All npcs head straight towards you till they are close, so tracking isnt as much of a factor in this situation as transversal velocity doesnt come into play as much. In a fleet battle its alot different and you cant expect 1400 pilots only game to be webbified targets. Tracking definately needs a tweak from what alot of people have been experiencing. I've noticed the loot cans from battleships not appearing. Kind of annoying since they lowered the bounty yesterday. ------------------------------------------
Ninja Panda	Posted - 2004.06.17 10:35:00 - [46] Anyone wanna join my new Corp ? Nearly all large turrets have been nerfed way too war and I dont mean vs Frigates, I mean vs another BS. If this is how the Devs want it to be then Large Turrets dont have any use Nubtastic Nubmen, to the Nubmobile
cakeBoy	Posted - 2004.06.17 10:59:00 - [47] have to say its not that great. im not fitting proj on a Tempest any longer- they dont hit BS npcs most of the time. and when they do its not to great- so on with the 3 siege and launchers. pop anything u like in the other slots it dont matter. im lvl5 proj and it took over a month to skill. now it pointless in 0.0 space. np mind- will move onto somthing new. hope they fix it mind= costly setup and time spent.
Solarion	Posted - 2004.06.17 11:22:00 - [48] They really went too far this time. I don't use projectiles myself but as said before all weapon types are effected. I also fought a corpmate of mine (he was in a tempest) and I could stand ground, though he has 2,5mil MORE skillpoints in gunnery. I was in an armor tanked apoc. We were both doing crappy damage and we could easily both keep the tank up. What was CCP's intend? Let everyone tank, nerf damage so no-one can destroy eachother? It's just crazy. I agree there is some reality in these changes. But they took it TOO far. Things really need to be adjusted... ---------------------------------------------- 2004.09.10 14:07:45 combat Your Dual Light Pulse Laser II perfectly strikes Guristas Terrorist, wrecking for 146.9 damage.
Serge	Posted - 2004.06.17 12:52:00 - [49] Projectiles = DEAD! Thx! Fitted 800s on Tempest and tried to shoot a webbified NPC cruiser at 7,5k range. I tellya i had to get my drones out to kill the bastard! 90% misses, rest hit for like 30 damage ... and i have all relevant skills at lvl4! I cant believe this was intended?? WTT Tempest for Raven or Apoc! *********************************************** ... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha
Estios	Posted - 2004.06.17 15:03:00 - [50] Edited by: Estios on 17/06/2004 15:08:54 EU my ol'mate you are so right and have posted exactly what I found out as soon as I logged on after the patch. I created a thread with my combat log showing that my Tempest (with tracking comp 2) could not hit a corpmates Scorp at Optimal range once we both started moving around each other ie not straight line. Im afraid you are pretty much wasting your breath though mate because 90% of the tards out there suddenly pipe up in your thread saying you are a whining Pirate and that you shouldnt be able to hit frigates with your 1400's even though no where in your discussion did you mention frigates. PVP for me in my Tempest is dead atm and Im just flying round in a Caracal or Raven which are uber. I even went on IRC last night for the 1st time (when Im logged into IRC and not EVE I know something is wrong) and started trying to ask folks to test what I was saying ie get a corp mate (not a dumb npc) you start moving Horizontily in his BS and you cannot hit him. Things were going ok and a few bods were finding the same until some total noob pipes up and says 'waah waah waah another whiner coz his 1400's cant hit frigates'......then as you can imagine I start to get raged. FFS READ PEOPLE , most of us experienced players who are complaining agree that huge turrets shouldnt hit frigs and should struggle against Cruisers (thats still nerfed atm imho) but BS to BS did not need any changes whatsoever. No one pre-patch ever complained that they couldnt dodge bullets in their Apoc. I feel like Im beating my head against a wall until I see clued up like minded people who have actually tested this crap and found BS to BS PVP is totally borked now. Honestly, all the good posts and discussions get dissolved because some ***** noob is too tarded to read that we are discussing BS vs BS and thats it IS DEFINATELY not right. Hell I started orbitting a Megathron with 400mils worth of named close range blasters on in my Tempest and he couldnt hardly hit me and the fight could have probably lasted hours. Needless to say he felt even more angry about the Large turret tracking than me Please guys, if you havent tested BS to BS PVP then STFU (although of course this is mainly directed at CScott and various other **s who think we just wanna gank frigs ....if your Cruiser guns cant hit other cruisers then again something is a little wrong) So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.*

Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.06.17 23:28:00 - [51] Very good point: Quote: Guys don't try to hit them at "optimal range" I'm running 1400's still on my tempest equipped with EMP. I have no problem hitting BS's or Cruisers. "but" I am not firing at optimal range, I am firing at Optimal + fallout range... works a charm, last night I did 900+ damage for 1 hit to a cruiser, with majority of hits doing 200 - 400 per hit. If I fire at "optimal" it doesn't do much at all. I am also using 2 tracking CPU's to get this result, you dont have to sacrifice to much if you use medium ones IMO. The 1400 is still alive, you just have to test out where u get the best hits, and make sure you use tracking comps. Seems like the optimal is not really the optimal range. Ignore the optimal, it's worthless. I was hitting frigates fine from 70km out, which is optimal + falloff range for the 1400mm, with phased plasma ammo. Was doing I was using only one tracking computer 2 and a signal amp for boosting targeting range. Also, it seems like your ship's maximum velocity and it's velocity relative to your target is important. I tested this with and without an Overdrive Injector I. With the injector, seemed like the 1400mm's were hitting better at all ranges, since my Tempest was faster. More testing is required, but I think the 1400mm is an even BETTER long range weapon now than it was before. I think this might apply to all artillery. I was also testing dual 425mm autocannons, and they now hit great at 30km, all the way down to about 17km. Their optimal is 18 km, strangely enough. The same pattern reveals itself, weapons hit well at optimal+falloff. In short, new optimal range is optima+falloff, with the falloff being the range bracket at which you can expect reasonable hits.
JoCool	Posted - 2004.06.17 23:39:00 - [52] I'd suggest you guys stay calm and wait for the fix.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.06.18 00:58:00 - [53] Edited by: Xelios on 18/06/2004 01:01:11 1400mm's are crap now. Only after sacrificing 3 lows and 2 meds purely to damage modules did I get damage that's even close to on par with energy. Note I said damage, not tracking, that's a whole nother problem. After 3 gyro 2's and 2 tracking comp II's I was getting normal hits at 220-300 (with the occasional 380), every 13.3 seconds with EMP L at all ranges. And yeah this was at the new optimal range of optimal+falloff. Meanwhile, my mega beams hit for ~130 every 5.5 seconds with RADIO crystals, with 2 C4S and a single tracking comp II, and large energy turret lvl 3 instead of large projectile lvl 4. After the hour of experimenting today I can't say 1400mm with a straight face. As GFL pointed out they've been nerfed 3 consecuitive times now and are currently the worst large turrets in the game.
Ninja Panda	Posted - 2004.06.18 14:51:00 - [54] Has TomB admitted his mathmatics isnt quite that of Albert Einstein yet ? Nubtastic Nubmen, to the Nubmobile
Ashinti	Posted - 2004.06.18 19:26:00 - [55] So sacrificing most of my lower and med slots to tracking computers is the only way to get a presentable hit on a target....Great..., Could we have an answer to everyones basic question on this thread.... WHY???
Weirda	Posted - 2004.06.18 20:39:00 - [56] Weirda's experience has been the same... The new "optimal" is optimal+falloff, with "optimal" alone being bad. Maybe the math for how to calculate %ages between optimal and max (optimal + falloff) was accidentally reversed... That what it seem like. Either way though - currently Weirda's "optimal" range is further out... Liking that! i.e. theoretical gun optimal=20k falloff=15k best hits = 35k down to worst at 20k... Seem backwards... right? -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
EDacIouSX	Posted - 2004.06.18 20:47:00 - [57] I cant seem to hit the broad side of a barn with projectile OR hybrids.... it's HORRIBLE!!!!!! Npcing is now boring and the rats chain so slow.... My Blog
Garramon	Posted - 2004.06.18 21:36:00 - [58] It IS a bug people. You can't hit anything with rails either. The Devs know there is a bug, and are monitoring to try to figure out what it is. ------------------------------------------------
Ashinti	Posted - 2004.06.18 21:52:00 - [59] Could we have a little Official nod to wether this is true??.... Pweeeazzzzz??
Drutort	Posted - 2004.06.19 23:18:00 - [60] First of all, think this sucks a lotà pre patch I didnÆt even need tracking comps though they did help a bit as well. The dmg was very good IMO pre patchà I could get constant 350-550 shots or so now what happened? I need 2x tracking comps just to hit for 150-350??? Ok I understand that npcs might have resistance and stuffà but this is sadà you know what happened my 720mm scout hits some times for the dmg that my 1400Æs hit a lot of the timesà you know whats funny? How badly I miss other BS even when im stationary and the npc is moving at like 144m/s I will have such poor hits at timesà and the sad thing is that in optimal range I do not hit that good its when I am on the edge of the optimal or so that the hits are the bestà WHAT IS UP WITH THAT! The close range guns 650-800 mm I think they do hit the BSÆs but the 1400Æs even with high optimal and 2x tracking at long range cant hit worth **. And to make it worse these new npcs can hit you with hybrid weapons at 80km for 100-200 every what 2 sec+? ya whatever my projectiles had harder time hitting that BS then the npc hitting me. If you think its not the worst on the projectiles you need to get your head examined. I saw that wrecking nerf right when it happened. Also to note NPCÆs can wreck as many times as they like so it seemsà I had 5+ wrecking hits on me while I had 0 on the npc and this is constant as if it was coded into the NPC AI. support Idea: QuickInfo** an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog



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