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Zhenga Black Thorn Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:50:00 - [1] The time has come. Level 4 missions are old. Please move level 5 missions to high sec. To places like Motsu. The æaverageÆ player can not use lvl5 agents because they are all in low sec. It is not worth dealing with the 5 year olds living in their motherÆs basement that reside in lowsec. They will scan u out and kill you making it worthless to do. MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!!
konjev Minmatar Enrave Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:51:00 - [2] more lvl4's to low sec imo
Sweet Rosella 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:52:00 - [3] how you going to get a carrier in them
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:53:00 - [4] they don't need to be moved, they just need to be worth it. When you make more doing lvl 4s, there is no point in doing lvl 5s.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:58:00 - [5] successful troll was successful?
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:58:00 - [6] if you ever bother to read patch notes or follow up on anything you would have seen they have buffed l5 payments heavily.
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Reptzo on 17/09/2008 18:00:05 Originally by: Aprudena Gist if you ever bother to read patch notes or follow up on anything you would have seen they have buffed l5 payments heavily. yes, but they are still not better than lvl 4s, if you can solo 4s, you can make more than group running 5s, and with no risk of pirates or crazy nos towers. Plus, the lack of bounties means no security boosts
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Reptzo Edited by: Reptzo on 17/09/2008 18:00:05 Originally by: Aprudena Gist if you ever bother to read patch notes or follow up on anything you would have seen they have buffed l5 payments heavily. yes, but they are still not better than lvl 4s, if you can solo 4s, you can make more than group running 5s, and with no risk of pirates or crazy nos towers. Plus, the lack of bounties means no security boosts QFT. If they require 5 people, they should have 5x as much reward, plus a premium for being in low sec. Some people will say "But they can be soloed in a passive Rattlesnake with officer gear" to which I reply if people want to run around in ships that cost 5+ billion isk and spend 8 hours in a single low sec system at half health by all means.
Zhenga Black Thorn Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Aprudena Gist if you ever bother to read patch notes or follow up on anything you would have seen they have buffed l5 payments heavily. But the buff was not big enough. Yes CCP tried to make lvl5Æs better, but the truth is this. Unless they are moved to high sec no one will run them. MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!! ps- I DID READ THE PATCH NOTES!!!!
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:34:00 - [10] I must disagree with your desire to move lvl 5s to high sec. They would be far too easy, and would result in much more isk being pumped into the economy. Lvl 4s make enough isk for being in high sec, lvl 5s would be out of control.
Panzerkom Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Panzerkom on 17/09/2008 18:42:21 like the previous poster, i also disagree with the OP. part of the reason of running L5s with a small gang is the dangers of lo-sec. IMHO, that is a good thing, more player interaction is always good for MMORPGs. And the amount of ISK is not the only reward for running L5s, the chance to bring down a capital ship is as rewarding if not more.
Zhenga Black Thorn Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Panzerkom Edited by: Panzerkom on 17/09/2008 18:42:21 like the previous poster, i also disagree with the OP. part of the reason of running L5s with a small gang is the dangers of lo-sec. IMHO, that is a good thing, more player interaction is always good for MMORPGs. And the amount of ISK is not the only reward for running L5s, the chance to bring down a capital ship is as rewarding if not more. I do not want to make the mission itÆs self easier. Just move it out of low sec. I often run lvl4Æs with friends even tho I can do them no problem myself. It is more fun doing things as a group. I donÆt see doing lvl5 missions as worth it while they are in low sec. MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:49:00 - [13] they're just fine where they are. if i understand you correctly, you basically want them moved to high-sec to make things easier - L4's are already easy & plentiful & low-risk & make you rich, there's no NEED to move L5's into high-sec, you just want it to be easier to make more money, right? it's my feeling that if you have a big enough group to do a L5, you have a big enough group to scare away random pirates This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:53:00 - [14] I think you are misunderstanding, I was not under the impression you wanted lvl 5s easier. But, by moving them to high sec you will make them significantly easier. How you might ask. If the missions were in high sec all the guys with crazy officer fits would start running them. My friends and i can make about 100-150 mil an hr doing lvl 5s, but that has to be split between 6 characters, collecting all the loot and salvage. And that is with the best gear we were willing to take to low sec. People would starting making way more grinding the lvl 5s if they could be safe in high sec, with their insane officer setups. 1-2 marauders plus a remote log ship, plus clean up crew, could probably clear 300+ mil an hr. Moving them to high sec would also be one more nail in the coffin for low sec, giving high sec folk one less reason to go ever leave.
Zhenga Black Thorn Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Pesky LaRue they're just fine where they are. if i understand you correctly, you basically want them moved to high-sec to make things easier - L4's are already easy & plentiful & low-risk & make you rich, there's no NEED to move L5's into high-sec, you just want it to be easier to make more money, right? it's my feeling that if you have a big enough group to do a L5, you have a big enough group to scare away random pirates No, as I said in my last post, I run them with friends. Can solo any lvl4 and not have any issues. So making more isk would be easy, all I would need to do is run 4Æs solo. But, I want the team play. What would be the point to an MMO if you played it in single player mode?? Move lvl5 mission to high sec would make them much more worth while. You would not have to deal with the pirateÆs running around. What is a few LPÆs and some tags when you get blown up whenever you run a mission? Move them the high sec, hell maybe even make them have more dps as a balance when they are moved to high sec.
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:01:00 - [16] your arguement is that you are a team player and moving 5s to high sec would make others team players. This is false. Even tho there would be plenty of people doing them for "team" fun, many more people would find the optimal setup to grind them the fastest to produce isk the fastest. This would expound the issues of high sec being more lucrative than low/null sec. Instead of moving them, they simply need to be worth more. The problem is the ever so used risk vs reward. Lvl 5s are barely worth more than lvl 4s, and they have many more challenges and problems. Pirates being the main problem, and the firepower needed for lvl 5s does not deter pirates, it encourages them, cause it means better kills.
Banana Torres Look Ma I did a Test	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Panzerkom And the amount of ISK is not the only reward for running L5s, the chance to bring down a capital ship is as rewarding if not more. If I wanted to bring down an NPC capital ship I would head for Luminaire. For me the only reward for killing an NPC is the cash reward. The only reason I do missions is for the ISK and until I am convinced that I can make more ISK doing level 5s in low sec rather than level 4s in high sec, I will be in high sec.
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence QFT. If they require 5 people, they should have 5x as much reward, plus a premium for being in low sec. Some people will say "But they can be soloed in a passive Rattlesnake with officer gear" to which I reply if people want to run around in ships that cost 5+ billion isk and spend 8 hours in a single low sec system at half health by all means. OMG say it ain't so. You have to actually interact with people in a MMO. Suck me sideways who would have thunk it? GTFO with the buff Level 5 missions people. Get some friends and go do them or quit the farkin' game. Freakin' Carebears! -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Zak Zerachiel Caldari Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:00:00 - [19] I don't run 4s, or 5s. I don't hang in lo-sec. But I realize why they're in lo-sec, not for the 'economic impacts' of groups grinding them for bling, but the fact of the matter is that they are where they are to prevent carebears from grinding them without having to deal with pirates, challenges, threats, etc. They're supposed to be difficult. They're supposed to be risky. You should have to go to 'unsafe' space to fly them. It creates a challenge. The fact that you outright state that you're afraid of getting popped doing them reeks of man-vagi. Suck it up. Your space-ship-shaped-pixels can be bought again, especially if you say you can run 4s solo, and have friends to do them with too. And stop trolling. Ass.
Lubomir Penev	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Zhenga MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!! You'd be surprised at how many people run them in highsec and highsec only. But if you can't handle 5 years old out of their mothers basement what makes you think you could handle L5s? -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Zhenga MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!! You'd be surprised at how many people run them in highsec and highsec only. if that number is anything but "zero", i would in fact be surprised Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Saint
Lubomir Penev	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Zhenga MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!! You'd be surprised at how many people run them in highsec and highsec only. if that number is anything but "zero", i would in fact be surprised Hint : an agent doesn't always give you a mission in his system. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Kritinana Minmatar Jackie Treehorn Productions	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Zhenga MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC SPACE!!! You'd be surprised at how many people run them in highsec and highsec only. if that number is anything but "zero", i would in fact be surprised Agents often send you to a neighboring system for a mission. So find a lvl 5'r near highsec and he/she's liable to send you to highsec every so often. If you like you can simply turn down missions that don't (4hr wait ofc.). As to the op....., stop being such a ****ing baby & grow a pair.
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Zak Zerachiel The fact that you outright state that you're afraid of getting popped doing them reeks of man-vagi. There's a big difference between fear and stupidity. Quote: Suck it up. Your space-ship-shaped-pixels can be bought again, especially if you say you can run 4s solo, and have friends to do them with too. You don't get it, do you? NPCing is a cash earning activity, like mining or gate camping. Why would anyone want to grind L4s for the privilege of grinding L5s? It's not like mission runners get anything from appearing as victims on a killboard. A + is a +, shooting one in highsec is indistinguishable from shooting one in lowsec or 0.0. Quote: And stop trolling. Ass. Good advice. Take it. Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again -- PvP is a blob-friendly activity. PvE is a solo-friendly activity. Until there are PvE activities which scale to support 100+ fleet members in PvP setups and give recons and inties something to do you won't see group mission running in lowsec catch on. Once it's possible for a carebear like myself to earn ISK in a viable PvP setup I'll give up my grindy ways to pew with you. Until then I'll just optimize for a local maximum of highest income -- an equation which includes smallest recurring loss.
Lubomir Penev	Posted - 2008.09.18 10:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Clair Bear Until there are PvE activities which scale to support 100+ fleet members in PvP setups and give recons and inties something to do you won't see group mission running in lowsec catch on. Faction warfare plexing is actually kinda close to that. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.18 10:04:00 - [26] Move them all to Jita, nao !111!!0011
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.18 10:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Aprudena Gist if you ever bother to read patch notes or follow up on anything you would have seen they have buffed l5 payments heavily. Not enough though. You will still make more money running L4 missions solo in almost complete safety. By definition (to my way of thinking) running an L5 missions should on average yield each pilot greater rewards than they would get for running an L4 mission solo. That should include a balance between high rewards and equipment losses. I'm fairly sure that a fiscal reward is not the answer here. I think CCP are right to want to avoid that. Unfortunately I can't see what the solution is. Maybe link it to a form of sovereignty? -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Commander Shallow Caldari Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.09.18 14:35:00 - [28] Simple solution: Move all lvl4's to lowsec as well :P
Squably Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.18 14:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Zhenga Originally by: Panzerkom Edited by: Panzerkom on 17/09/2008 18:42:21 like the previous poster, i also disagree with the OP. part of the reason of running L5s with a small gang is the dangers of lo-sec. IMHO, that is a good thing, more player interaction is always good for MMORPGs. And the amount of ISK is not the only reward for running L5s, the chance to bring down a capital ship is as rewarding if not more. I do not want to make the mission itÆs self easier. Just move it out of low sec. I often run lvl4Æs with friends even tho I can do them no problem myself. It is more fun doing things as a group. I donÆt see doing lvl5 missions as worth it while they are in low sec. MOVE LEVEL 5 MISSIONS TO HIGH SEC. Grow a pair and visit low-sec. Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.09.18 15:10:00 - [30] I'm going to have to ask, since i have not run a L5 and lost interest once me and corpmates tried one on the test server and all got destroyed within 10seconds of warping in. If the devs are not looking to increase the payout more then they have,apparently not enough if anyone listens to any of the other posts, what is the point of L5s? Is the LP payouts significantly larger then L4s, where a group of 5 players would see a reason to try a L5? I'm not an LP store user other then...okay i just dont use my LP but isn't it possible to get the tags needed to buy high end gear in FW plexes? If so then doesn't that negate the point of doing L5s? Wouldn't it be easier to go into FW, pewpew with pvp setups and bag some tags in the plexes as well? IF theres more isk to be had doing L4s, equal LP payouts as well and people are able to bag the same kind of tags doing FW plexes, what is the point? What kind of loot is dropped in L5s? Is there some way that CCP could possibly buff that to make it worth the effort and risk? Unlike 0.0 low sec seems to be a lot hotter. I know in 0.0 alliance tend to have some rather safe pockets for people to rat and mine in. Would increasing the number of L5 agents in lowsec help spread out the pirates? Also would changing NPC behavior to have a percent chance of targeting a new ship entering the area help? If npcs had a chance to target the pirates jumping in that would increase the risk to the pirate and maybe help encourage some mission runners out of .5+ . I don't think the OP is suggesting he wants the missions to be easier, he himself never mentioned using faction gear. He wants a crack at them without seeing the risk heavily outweighing the potential reward. It sounds a lot like going to Vegas, playing roullette with a single $100 chip per round. Then again the pay off would be a load of money at 36:1 odds, L5s simply don't sound like you even get 10:1 odds type payoffs. Would there even be a point for CCP to come up with L4.5 missions. Basically increased difficulty in missions but lower then L5s. However make the mission worth twice as much as an L4 but require 2 players to take on the mission with a payout equal to an L4 once it is split up. The point being a type of mission where working with some friends is required as opposed to outright over kill on some L4s. Just some extra pve content for groups of friends looking to run as a group but without a payout greater then if they did L4s solo. if i repeated myself, its 8am here and i havent slept

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