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Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:00:00 - [31] Originally by: Block Ukx There is no bug. Market sells largest order first; probably to avoid people undercutting with a smaller quantity. Wow. So much fail. I'll let others deliver upon thee with furious vengance. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
oogs Gallente Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 19/09/2008 09:58:35 Now I am sure some... but not all are aware of this. (I have suspected for a long time but never bothered to confirm) However I now can confirm that market bot hackers exist in Jita. I have bought 4 billion worth of trit and noticed a funny thing while buying. I selected each seller and bought... and noticed that when I bought 113,353,612 units off of one char and bought... but immediatly they had the same amount up for sale again. So I bought that as well. Sure enough.... my money went through and got the trit... Only to find another load up for sale. Same volume, same price. I have done this five times. Just a FYI for those that use market "volumes" as an indicator of supply for their calculations... trust them as much as you trust CCP. Taikun Are you sure it's not lag? I managed to accidentally buy-out the same person twice in a row before I realized it takes a few minutes for the market to update. I ended up with near 100 drones instead of the 50 I wanted.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Taikun EDIT: I just slapped up 4 10m unit order of Trit in Jita and they are all listed seperately. So either this is a bot, bug or an exploit IMO. Taikun Did you view the market with the same character? If possible could you check with a separate account/character to see if they can see all 4 orders aswell? I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:05:00 - [34] Originally by: oogs Are you sure it's not lag? Yes... otherwise I would have placed a buy order up instead of recieving the Trit as for 3 purchases I used the "place buy order" button. Not lag. Something more fundamental. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Feronia Gallente Magma Industries	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Block Ukx There is no bug. Market sells largest order first; probably to avoid people undercutting with a smaller quantity. It is a bug when you can't see the other orders. Only one of them was visible. Mind you, its not a very common bug. I've only experienced this 3 times (all in Jita) in over 5 years gameplay and I don't think people can reproduce this willingly.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:06:00 - [36] Originally by: oogs Are you sure it's not lag? I managed to accidentally buy-out the same person twice in a row before I realized it takes a few minutes for the market to update. I ended up with near 100 drones instead of the 50 I wanted. If it was Lag then its an even bigger problem which would allow for item duplication. ie place an order and buy it many times in laggy periods if buying it from yourself you would be generating items for free. I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Midas Man Did you view the market with the same character? If possible could you check with a separate account/character to see if they can see all 4 orders aswell? Good call. I used same char, but did log out and back in for the sake of doing it. My closest other toon is 30 mins from Jita. I might do it tomorrow, but worth checking out. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Taikun I used same char, but did log out and back in for the sake of doing it. My closest other toon is 30 mins from Jita. I might do it tomorrow, but worth checking out. Taikun I will check later when im back from work and post my results. I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:12:00 - [39] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Block Ukx There is no bug. Market sells largest order first; probably to avoid people undercutting with a smaller quantity. Wow. So much fail. I'll let others deliver upon thee with furious vengance. Taikun I'm sure a dev can confirm my claim. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Feronia Originally by: Block Ukx There is no bug. Market sells largest order first; probably to avoid people undercutting with a smaller quantity. It is a bug when you can't see the other orders. Only one of them was visible. Mind you, its not a very common bug. I've only experienced this 3 times (all in Jita) in over 5 years gameplay and I don't think people can reproduce this willingly. I can reproduce this "bug" by chaging the quantity sorting settings. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:18:00 - [41] Originally by: Block Ukx I'm sure a dev can confirm my claim. Until you do I hope you stop posting such nonsense. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:20:00 - [42] Edited by: Taikun on 19/09/2008 15:24:15 Originally by: Block Ukx I can reproduce this "bug" by chaging the quantity sorting settings. ♫ ♪ Good for you ♫ ♪ .But in my case (and I suspect Feronia's as well) I did no such thing. Therefore your input has done little to advance the discussion. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Augeas	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: Feronia Originally by: Block Ukx There is no bug. Market sells largest order first; probably to avoid people undercutting with a smaller quantity. It is a bug when you can't see the other orders. Only one of them was visible. Mind you, its not a very common bug. I've only experienced this 3 times (all in Jita) in over 5 years gameplay and I don't think people can reproduce this willingly. I can reproduce this "bug" by chaging the quantity sorting settings. Block, I don't think that you understand the issue being discussed.
Feronia Gallente Magma Industries	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Block Ukx I can reproduce this "bug" by chaging the quantity sorting settings. Not really, it would only move the other orders further down the list, not make them invisible. And in case you have any doubts, I did scroll down and checked the complete list. But its not something to worry about as it doesn't happen that frequently and its not reproducable.
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:30:00 - [45] Taikun, I understand what you are trying to show us, but it would probably be better to be a bit more diplomatic in your responses. It will allow further composed discussion instead of the thread turning into a flame fest. They are by no means attacks on you, just further questions, and verifications of a possible error on your end. Consider this a freindly bump. Nice test btw.
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 19/09/2008 09:58:35 Now I am sure some... but not all are aware of this. (I have suspected for a long time but never bothered to confirm) However I now can confirm that market bot hackers exist in Jita. I have bought 4 billion worth of trit and noticed a funny thing while buying. I selected each seller and bought... and noticed that when I bought 113,353,612 units off of one char and bought... but immediatly they had the same amount up for sale again. So I bought that as well. Sure enough.... my money went through and got the trit... Only to find another load up for sale. Same volume, same price. I have done this five times. Just a FYI for those that use market "volumes" as an indicator of supply for their calculations... trust them as much as you trust CCP. Taikun Just one last comment and will leave it at that. Anyone reading this thread can do the test themselves. Suppose there are more than one order in the market priced the lowest. For instance, One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 100,000 units tritanium at 2.90 Typically the one with the lowest amount will sort first (the 20,000 units). If I right click the 20,000 to purchase it (because it is listed first) you will notice that next time you look in the market you will see One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 80,000 units tritanium at 2.90 You can repeat the same process five more times until both orders go away, or you can right click the largest order (100,000) from the beginning and purchase the 20,000 order second. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Grendell Taikun, I understand what you are trying to show us, but it would probably be better to be a bit more diplomatic in your responses. I think many would be disapointed if I turned all soft and cuddly in here. I respond well to those who post well. If not... Your advice is by no means unique to my experiences in here. Nevertheless I am a curious soul and apprieciate all those who are sniffing at the same issue with the same curiousity. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:53:00 - [48] Edited by: Taikun on 19/09/2008 15:54:03 Originally by: Block Ukx Just one last comment and will leave it at that. Anyone reading this thread can do the test themselves. Suppose there are more than one order in the market priced the lowest. For instance, One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 100,000 units tritanium at 2.90 Typically the one with the lowest amount will sort first (the 20,000 units). If I right click the 20,000 to purchase it (because it is listed first) you will notice that next time you look in the market you will see One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 80,000 units tritanium at 2.90 You can repeat the same process five more times until both orders go away, or you can right click the largest order (100,000) from the beginning and purchase the 20,000 order second. Geeze man. First... the buy orders I was dealing with were NOT the same value. There were split by a solid visable 0.01 isk. Second... this is NOT how the market works. Prices are not limited to hundredths of an isk. If you place an sell order up for the same amount as an existing order it actually places it up as 0.001 isk more that the highest established amount at that price. The market will then clear the lowest priced order first. i.e The first price listed at the hundredth of an isk will sell first. All the while the visable numbers are the exact same value. It might LOOK like quantity is the deciding factor for a particular set of sales, but I assure you (as would others, and devs) is it not the case. Now from memory when selling crap and using thousands in the sell price it never registered... it is "automaticly" assigned by the market sell system. I am sure someone can confirm that as well. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.09.19 15:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Block Ukx Just one last comment and will leave it at that. Anyone reading this thread can do the test themselves. Suppose there are more than one order in the market priced the lowest. For instance, One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 100,000 units tritanium at 2.90 Typically the one with the lowest amount will sort first (the 20,000 units). If I right click the 20,000 to purchase it (because it is listed first) you will notice that next time you look in the market you will see One selling 20,000 units tritanium at 2.90 One selling 80,000 units tritanium at 2.90 You can repeat the same process five more times until both orders go away, or you can right click the largest order (100,000) from the beginning and purchase the 20,000 order second. Right click any heading on the market tab, you can set a Secondry filter. No bug, no problem, working as intended. If you don't like it filtered by volume after price, simply set it to something else. I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:00:00 - [50] Haha, Jita has bots on market ? Nothing new, i bet a raven that the 0.01 isk undercutter-bots exist for more than 2 years, interesting to hear that they now even have botters to bluff about the actual volume of a sale. Did you petition it ? If not, give us at least the name of the guy that shows up as seller in the transaction window. _________ My e-peen
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:01:00 - [51] I have seen what you reported happen but only ever on NPC sold items. Anyway, it's a mystery
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:57:00 - [52] IT WAS THE STAPLER! [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:47:00 - [53] lol I was waiting for someone to say that Ray The memories!
Snasty	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Ricdic I have seen what you reported happen but only ever on NPC sold items. Anyway, it's a mystery Ditto
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Ricdic lol I was waiting for someone to say that Ray The memories! giving ray credit...... learn 2 read newb :P --
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:12:00 - [56] Originally by: Midas Man I have noticed something similar once when trying to manipulate a market. There was a single unit available that reappeared everytime I bought from it, I bought it 10 time got all 10 items and paid the isk for each Item but it was still their. I could never work out if it was a bot. My own take was someone had placed numerous sell orders at the same value and the client "Stacked" them. I never got round to testing the theory though. I will give it a go this evening after work. I've now set up numerous orders at the same value and they all show when looked at by a separate account so looks as if they may not be the case. i have no lag at the moment so unsure if that would play a roll may try on sunday in Jita lol I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
Confuzer Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 22:13:00 - [57] Stapler????? "A stapler is a mechanical device that joins together sheets of paper or other similar materials by driving a thin metal staple through the sheets and folding over the ends to secure the paper. Staplers are widely used in government and business offices and schools." okay, we call that a "Niettang". But, what does it have to do with this? ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Rho'varo Minmatar Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Block Ukx Anyone reading this thread can do the test themselves. Suppose there are more than one order in the market priced the lowest. For instance, One selling 20,000 units Tritanium at 2.90 One selling 100,000 units Tritanium at 2.90 Typically the one with the lowest amount will sort first (the 20,000 units). If I right click the 20,000 to purchase it (because it is listed first) you will notice that next time you look in the market you will see One selling 20,000 units Tritanium at 2.90 One selling 80,000 units Tritanium at 2.90 Replication attempted. As I found previously with bids, the earliest-placed ask of multiple asks at apparently similar prices (i.e., prices that match to two decimal places) was matched first, regardless of which order had a larger volume, and regardless of which order I clicked on to call up the transaction-entry dialog box. The displayed sort order of bids or asks is not relevant to order matching. I hypothesise that in your example, Block Ukx, the ask with 100 k units was entered before the one with 20 k units. I encourage you to try to replicate your results, placing the smaller quantity on the market first.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.20 02:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Confuzer Stapler????? "A stapler is a mechanical device that joins together sheets of paper or other similar materials by driving a thin metal staple through the sheets and folding over the ends to secure the paper. Staplers are widely used in government and business offices and schools." okay, we call that a "Niettang". But, what does it have to do with this? I'm glad you asked. Once upon a time Taikun came to these forums annoyed that there was no confirmation window on order modifications. I believe the main annoyance was that somehow two typo's had occured simultaneously causing him to lose isk. Somehow or other it was determined that a stapler dancing on the keyboard had caused the error. A search at www.eve-search.com for a combination of "Taikun" and "stapler" should bring up the thread which was good for a laugh. I don't believe a stapler was actually involved in the process directly but it somehow made it's way into the conversation. Sorry Treelox I didn't notice your mention of stapler earlier plus I generally don't read your posts
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.20 02:34:00 - [60] Here you go I had to pull it up as I want some reading material whilst at work.

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