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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cahoun
BAND of MAGNUS CZECH Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:31:00 -
[1231] - Quote
I usually dont write on forum. But I dont understand if someone asked "victim" player. "Are you healthy? Did you not kill yourself? Did you visit family or a doctor?" Its more important. Its not funny do jokes if someone is depressed or have the problems in RL. But Its happens. Its better to help players if they are really have problems in their minds Many players are unhappy after lost the ships. But Its Eve Online. Many players play games and they want to forget about problems in RL
But Mittani was drunk and he did mistake. Ok, no more CSM6 chairman member, no more CSM7 chairman member, apologies to "victim" player
But I dont know if "victim" player feels better and more important now. Whole Eve know about him. Maybe Mittani did good thing if he told about him
I dont care about politics in game. But It was Mittani who help to solve situation after Incarna expansion. I dont understand 1 month ban from game I have fear to say something in game
Is it really still fun? Can I say my opinion in public
I am not on side of Mittani and I didnt vote and I dont like Goons. Its only my opinion. |
Kile Kitmoore
13
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:50:00 -
[1232] - Quote
Well lets face it, CCP has made it's decision and Mitt's has planned out his future with the Goons and all the back and forth is not going to change that, unfortunately.
Gong to part this thread with a bit of advice for both the CSM and CCP, DON"T SCREW UP! If you guys/gals spend the next six months getting nothing done but "debating your procedures" or what shade of colors panties (or how they drop, LOL, never getting over that) should be in the character creator don't be surprised of another full-on revolt and it possibly being led by your ex-chairman. Imagine Mitt's without the constrains of CSM niceties and NDA's but instead he's just another pissed off customer with a voice, I would not want to be in the CSM or at CCP for that **** storm.
Who knows, maybe he will quietly go back to leading his alliance & meta-gaming and leave you guys to do, whatever.
Good luck to all parties and maybe the victim in this sad little tale will actually put this game down for a while and get some real help, if he really needed it at all.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
157
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:52:00 -
[1233] - Quote
Sure. It's called "cancelling your account".
If you think CCP acted criminally, cancel your account and report to local authorities.
Quote:I dont understand if someone asked "victim" player. "Are you healthy? Did you not kill yourself? Did you visit family or a doctor?" CCP has spoken to him. Mittens has also (according to him) apologized to him personally. He has been reported to be ok. As I gather it, he does not want further publicity.
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Ibn Taymiyyah
Treasures Collectors Northern Associates.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.30 17:02:00 -
[1234] - Quote
Only read what CCP Xhagen all this way into the thread, but the timming is irrelevant for this case.
So let me just try to get my head around this.
If I go out, kill a bunch of highsec hardcore pvers, who'll proceed to cry me a river ... if I tell someone, within caracter, "go die in a fire", I get a 30 day ban?
Because you just said:
Quote:Furthermore, the panelist, present on the panel in order to represent his in-game identity, advocated using in-game actions to achieve a real world outcome.
Honestly, when I'm out to blow up your game, if you do end up on my TS crying (in RL about) I'm just laughing my ass off. So are you and so is everyone! You're hoping that people are dicks to one and other and get mad as in roleplaying?
* me proceeds to blow up helpless miner in a cowardly suicide gank * miner knows he lost the ship on undock and maintaining complete posture, procedes to insult and whine and cry, calling me the root of all evil in the world
where am I getting at? When you're out to "destroy someone else game" you're looking for REAL LIFE TEARS! If you end up making a video, whining about it, the ganker WON the absolute prize! No one gets mad "in character". These two are NOT separate realities. Sorry, I can't understand the separation.
You can tell me to kill myself all day, suicide gank me every day and every hour ... what the hell does that have to do with my decision to do it or not? How in the hell are you liable for someone RL decisions with your in game actions or even words?
Mittens was not disrespectful (not in any special/uncommon way). He told people to grief the player, joking with the fact that he might actually kill himself. I got it, you got it, the audience got it. Can't understand all this! Hell, I'm actually thinking of starting suicide ganking people ... starting with that one mate, unless he's off limits due to unstable psyche, in which case you should really get a flag for those people, so we can't shoot them dead in game and having that transpire to RL! :)
I have no desire to see the guy kill himself, but have no desire for him to live. I'm indifferent to his life, as I'm indifferent to most other living beings. As a whole, society works like this except for the few hypocrites who love to say different, but eat a full meal with kids dying of hunger nearby! :)
Damn, when a friend of mine coughs, my one reply to is "just die, it's faster!".... why all this drama?
Fake edit: you case you missed my last post, I'm red to goons, I didn't vote for mittens, I'm not a suicide ganker and have no love for that type of gameplay ... but ... this was wrong! |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
194
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Posted - 2012.03.30 17:04:00 -
[1235] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Sure. It's called "cancelling your account". If you think CCP acted immorally, that's what you should do - do not give your money to people whose actions you cannot morally accept. If you think CCP acted criminally, cancel your account and report to local authorities. Quote:I dont understand if someone asked "victim" player. "Are you healthy? Did you not kill yourself? Did you visit family or a doctor?" CCP has spoken to him. Mittens has also apologized to him personally. He has been reported to be ok. As I gather it, he does not want further publicity. He also probably does not want the ******* cops to show up at his house over **** he said in the context of a video game, but nobody's talking about that. Does CCP suspect that his crisis is over? When will the cops be called?
I wonder if anybody even realizes how much that matters?
This guy got off scot free because you all made him a martyr. Either he's suicidal and CCP's actions were grossly negligent and continue to be such as long as the police are not involved OR he was lying, everybody knows it, and he should spend some time with Officer Mahoney and the State Mental Facility thereafter for evaluation to drive the point home to the alleged victim that suicide is nothing to joke about.
Only then will CCP's actions make any sense whatsoever.
TL;DR - If CCP doesn't call the cops on The Wis then they literally care about nothing other than what Sony thinks of their "image." He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
157
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 17:06:00 -
[1236] - Quote
You do realize, I am sure, that the mail that was read in the panel was months old?
Beyond that, it is not at all our place to judge whether he was really suicidal or not. Regardless of whether he was, and what has gone on between CCP, him, and possibly the local authorities (which is none of your business, and under confidentiality, and neither the victim nor the CCP has any reason, let alone duty, to tell you any details about it), joking about something like that was a crap thing to do.
If someone makes a suicide threat you believe not to be genuine, you report to whoever can take action in case it is genuine, and then STFU about it, not coax everyone to harass him for punishment. I trust I do not have to explain why. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
194
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 17:14:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:You do realize, I am sure, that the mail that was read in the panel was months old?
Beyond that, it is not at all our place to judge whether he was really suicidal or not. Regardless of whether he was, and what has gone on between CCP, him, and possibly the local authorities (which is none of your business, and under confidentiality, and neither the victim nor the CCP has any reason, let alone duty, to tell you any details about it), joking about something like that was a crap thing to do.
If someone makes a suicide threat you believe not to be genuine, you report to whoever can take action in case it is genuine, and then STFU about it, not coax everyone to harass him for punishment. I trust I do not have to explain why.
Oh I see. It was months old so that means it's OK. Sometimes petitions take freaking weaks to resolve. Would they not follow policy due to backlog? So now he's in the limelight and everybody assumes he's OK. I'm not saying that it's my business, but we know for a fact that he didn't get a visit from the cops. Why not, when it's ******* policy?
The answer is obvious.
CCP is really serious about that suicide policy, boy let me tell you. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Ibn Taymiyyah
Treasures Collectors Northern Associates.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.30 17:20:00 -
[1238] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:If someone makes a suicide threat you believe not to be genuine, you report to whoever can take action in case it is genuine, and then STFU about it, not coax everyone to harass him for punishment. I trust I do not have to explain why.
Mate, I disagree. If I blow you up in game and you convo me saying you're going to kill yourself cuz of the lost pixels... I'm not going to report your bad day... I'm coming back tomorrow for seconds! And the next day, and the next day ... wtf? Kill yourself over a game? If my life is ever that devoid of content that a loss in a video game leads to a suicide note... I'm not here the next day because either:
a) I'm dead b) I quit the game and got a life!
!
I can't understand all this drama. Who cares? Everyone is free to do whatever they want with their lives! Unless I'm pushing you off a cliff ... **** it! I've seen a guy jump from a bridge 2 meters in front of me. He stopped his car, came out and jumped. My reaction was getting pissed because now I had to switch lanes to get past his ******* car! No sympathy here :| |
Kara Balveda
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2012.03.30 17:39:00 -
[1239] - Quote
Two step wrote:I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.
More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page
I'd expect all of you to resign. Yeah, even the guy I cast my vote for. Then CCP has to open the process for selecting CSM 8, and the 10.058 voters can cast their votes for Mittens again. Of course, it is to be hoped that CCP sees the light when all the CSM threatens to resign. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 17:46:00 -
[1240] - Quote
Darth Gustav:
No, that it was months old does not make anything ok. But sending cops over somewhere because of a months old suicide threat without checking with the guy who threatened will make said cops really, really pissed off. ;) As to why that was not handled at the time by CCP is probably because no one who saw it then bothered petitioning it, instead of circulating it internally and making fun of it - not because of petition backlog. A lot of petitions get looked at fairly fast, e.g. stuck petitions, EULA/TOS violations and suspicions of exploiting; I expect this would have. Again, how the guy fares now and what his contact with authorities, legal or medical, has or has not been, is none of your effing business. If one of us knew what his medical status is and spoke of it here, we could be banned. ("An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if a player: b. Divulges private and/or personal information about another subscriber or an official EVE Online representative through the EVE Online client or web site."). Back off.
I am not going to explain to you for a hundreth time why Mittani's behavior was out of line. If you do not get it yet, you either will not read the explanations, or will never get it.
Ibn:
I have never said, and neither has CCP said, that you cannot blow up my ship if I threaten with suicide (which I won't do, but as a hypothetical ;)). For the hundreth time, Mittani was not punished for blowing the guy up; he was punished for what was said about it. This is not black and white. We can at the same time accept blowing people's ships up no matter what they say to you to plead or threaten you to stop, think threatening with a suicide in a game is a crap thing to do, and think that pointing and laughing at people who are OOCly upset is also a crap thing to do. If you cannot handle that many different aspects of thinking at the same time, maybe you should not be playing EVE. It is such complex game, it might be too much for you. |
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Ninker
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.30 18:51:00 -
[1241] - Quote
Cute that everyone thinks he should be let off.
Darling that they think 10k votes are wasted when most people have more than one account and probably voted with them.
Sweet that they think the numbers matter, what are they going to do unsub? Hahahaha. If that threat was maintained everytime something happened Eve would be in negative numbers.
Epic to see that no one is beyond the rules, no matter the size of the ego. |
Kosh Seere
Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
21
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:11:00 -
[1242] - Quote
Ninker wrote:Cute that everyone thinks he should be let off.
Darling that they think 10k votes are wasted when most people have more than one account and probably voted with them.
Sweet that they think the numbers matter, what are they going to do unsub? Hahahaha. If that threat was maintained everytime something happened Eve would be in negative numbers.
Epic to see that no one is beyond the rules, no matter the size of the ego. This just shows how much you know about what happened after Incarna. Skill yourself! |
Selinate
764
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:14:00 -
[1243] - Quote
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1944
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:18:00 -
[1244] - Quote
I support this decision completely.
It is sad Mittens displayed such poor judgement that required this action on the part of CCP but this was the minimum required to restore the integrity of the CSM in the eyes of the majority of the players of Eve and to show the outside world CCP took this indecent seriously.
Thank you CCP for making what must have been a very hard call and getting it right.
Issler |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:21:00 -
[1245] - Quote
Selinate wrote:If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed. Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
165
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:25:00 -
[1246] - Quote
CCP Xhagen wrote:
Q3, Real life actions should not equate to in game sanctions. Why did this happen? A3, After much deliberation on the subject, CCP considers the Alliance Panel to be an official CCP forum, as it is hosted by CCP and broadcast in a similarly visible fashion to the EVE Online forums. As such, it falls under the jurisdiction of the TOS.
Can you please clarify this? It sounds like CCP employees were not sure if that panel was "real life" or "an official CCP forum" hence the need for "much deliberation". It was unclear. But after deciding that it was indeed an official forum, you retroactively applied the rules to players. Employees weren't sure what rules apply, but random players are expected to intuit the answer CCP will come to if they ever consider the question? That doesn't sound quite right.
Applying the EULA/TOS to a real life event and then retroactively declaring that real life event to be part of the forums, and punishing people seems like a terrible precedent. Announce the rules, then punish people who break the rules. Doing it the other way around is madness. What's next, banning people for things they say during the "official" pub crawl?
Please clarify. |
Selinate
764
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:27:00 -
[1247] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Selinate wrote:If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed. Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither.
No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:28:00 -
[1248] - Quote
I think the reply uses "forum" in the generic sense, as in, a place where people talk about stuff, as opposed to "forum" as in these specific thingies on web. The reply is about the fact that yes, Fanfest alliance panels are covered by CCP rules of conduct, as they are places "sponsored by CCP", as opposed to say tables in a random pub.
And anyone who thinks that the fact that they need to "intuit" the idea that is is NOT OK to encourage other players to harass someone in order to hurt them in RL, even as a joke, is a problem... well, they should not be communicating in any shape or form with the civilized world anyhow, so cannot see it as a problem myself if they cannot see the line and get banned as a result. |
Devore Sekk
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:29:00 -
[1249] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.
He did that himself.
Been following this sage since I saw it on live feed. The vast majority of the commentary on it by players and outsiders has been nearly unanimously misinformed, missing context, and is just plain old knee-jerk white-knighting (none of them have talked to the player in question, and resorted to playing the popular "cyberbulliyng" card instead, the new "will someone think of the children" meme). This forces CCP to react to appease these whiners and fix perceptions which were set by the train wreck stories on Massively and similar.
The above comment plays right into this stupidity.
The Mittani's account is temp-banned. A banned player cannot serve on the CSM. The Mittani has merely saved himself and CCP the indignity and embarrassment of having to dismiss him from the CSM. His stepping down is the best outcome for all involved. In all likelihood, he was informed of the incoming ban in advance. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
232
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:22:00 -
[1250] - Quote
I feel like I missed something but can't be bothered to read 59 pages to find out what it was. |
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Alexandr Kerensky
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
0
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:26:00 -
[1251] - Quote
So much RAAAAAAAAGEEEEEE!!!!!
Mitanni was drunk, said something stupid, was big enough to apologize and VOLUNTARILY resign. He will be back in 30 days, his wrath will burn all before him. The Alexpocalyse will begin! Would I like him back for CSM7: Yes! But that's not gonna change, despite all the emo tears to the contrary. He'll rule CSM8 when it comes around, and will still be a huge force in New Eden politics and events. Bottom line: Mittens ain't dead. He will return, and all will be right with the world. The amount of ragetears over this is pretty entertaining though. |
Azran Zala
Sicarius. When Hippos Attack
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:56:00 -
[1252] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Selinate wrote:If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed. Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither. No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed.
Its almost shocking the contrast between your statement and the reason I believe I actually play Eve instead of wow to begin with. After spening an entire day carrying a false smile towards people I'd rather strangle who in turn return a false smile and polite pleasantries when really all they are trying to do is step on you to hide their own faults or get ahead in their careers... Its somewhat refreshing to log onto a world where others can skip the pleasantries and be brutally honest about their intentions to break you, & you may return the sentiment. Not to say that 2 faced people dont exist in eve, who hide behind corp/ally politics shaking your hand while holding a back destined knife in the other... but at least the option use the knife is there. |
Selinate
764
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:28:00 -
[1253] - Quote
Azran Zala wrote:Selinate wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Selinate wrote:If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed. Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither. No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed. Interesting, I kind of favour a game where no punches are withheld. Ofter a day at spent exchanging pleasantries with people who'd do anything within the confines of grey business ethics to screw you, but still smile when shaking your hand. I find it somewhat refreshing to log onto a world where others can skip the pleasantries and be brutally honest about their intentions to break you, & you may return the sentiment. Not to say that 2 faced people dont exist in eve, who hide behind corp/ally politics shaking your hand while holding a back destined knife in the other... but at least the option use the knife is there. Infact the greater the chance that my actions here might affect someones mood or even cause them emotional grief in RL, the bigger the turn on for me. And the knowledge that I can fall victim to the same only increases the rush.
You and I are talking about 2 completely different things. I am ok with scamming, lying, cheating betrayal in Eve and all of that.
What I do not accept is idiot players harassing other players and encouraging other players to harass that player in order to make them commit suicide. There is a line to be drawn here. |
Everial
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:06:00 -
[1254] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:Following the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012, an incident was broadcast live on air by a panelist during the Q&A which broke the EVE Online EULA/TOS. The panelist was a member of the CSM who has subsequently resigned from CSM6 and, as a result, will resign his seat on CSM7. GM Salmon, VP of Customer Relations, provides more detail in this blog. Update: CCP Xhagen has posted some answers to common questions in the thread.
CCP's arbitrary application of their EULA and TOS reveals an endemic problem with their community relations wing. It is a years long issue that started with the T20 controversy and is revived each time you ban a critic. Your failure is comprehensive, your professionalism laughable, your future bleak. |
Draknishar
Directive XIII
3
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:23:00 -
[1255] - Quote
Personaly I feel CCP should be held responsible for this if anyone. Alternatively he should have been stoped in his tracks and told then and there that what he was doing was unacceptable and to stay clear of things like that.
I feel this is just CCP covering their ass 'cause alot of gaming sites posted about it. |
Wolfduke
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:29:00 -
[1256] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:I support this decision completely.
It is sad Mittens displayed such poor judgement that required this action on the part of CCP but this was the minimum required to restore the integrity of the CSM in the eyes of the majority of the players of Eve and to show the outside world CCP took this indecent seriously.
Thank you CCP for making what must have been a very hard call and getting it right.
Issler
Full of yourself as ever I see.
How's that working out for you? |
Pasen Haas
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:33:00 -
[1257] - Quote
I like it when CCP go out of they're way to make the game enjoyable, then turn around and do stupid crap. Like this, and renaming all the missiles to stupid stuff >.< I CANT FIND MY DAMN HEAVIES!
Also, ..I., - right up you ccp. |
Joepopo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:37:00 -
[1258] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:I support this decision completely.
It is sad Mittens displayed such poor judgement that required this action on the part of CCP but this was the minimum required to restore the integrity of the CSM in the eyes of the majority of the players of Eve and to show the outside world CCP took this indecent seriously.
Thank you CCP for making what must have been a very hard call and getting it right.
Issler
Now that mittani is out, it is up to you to make CSM7 successful. So far I only saw you and DariusIII being unsupportive of your fellow CSM member. This is not right and you shall not publicly diminish the other CSM member. This is, my good sir, a troll attitude. It shows nothing but disorder and tension within the CSM. Next time you have a problem in the CSM, please keep it quiet.
CSM6 was very successul and set the game back on the right track. We are expecting no less from you now. Don't disapoint us. I don't care really if it is you oor mittani who fixes the game for everyone, I just want the job done. And The Mittani, although you may find him too hard on afk miner, had the job done.
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
65
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:44:00 -
[1259] - Quote
Everial wrote:CCP's arbitrary application of their EULA and TOS reveals an endemic problem with their community relations wing. It is a years long issue that started with the T20 controversy and is revived each time you ban a critic. Your failure is comprehensive, your professionalism laughable, your future bleak. Just keep paying that subscription fee sweetie! Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Alexandr Kerensky
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 00:00:00 -
[1260] - Quote
Why is this not 60 pages yet!? WHY!!???1111!1!
Edit: YAY!!! |
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