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Ampoliros
Shadow Company Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:01:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Alz Shado How to Deal with Isk Sellers, by Mark Jacobs (an excerpt from here)
Originally by: Mark Jacobs We donÆt wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away. We have a strike team whose sole job it is to get these guys off our servers as quickly as possible.
You're doing it right.
Gold selling was done in DAoC, it will be done in Warhammer, and Jacobs is delusional if he thinks otherwise - hardline stance is great and all, but the playerbase is the one that's largely responsible for it. If there wasn't a market, there wouldn't be a seller. ----------------------------- Signature for sale :o |

Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2008.09.23 18:32:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker A better way is to IP block whole China!
Right, because we don't want any legitimate customers from China on our server, and the IT staff at the farming sweat shops lack the basic compitence to set up a proxy to bipass the filter. 
ISNT THAT WHAT MULTIPLICITY IS FOR? maybe you should check and see that Eve has a CHINESE server....maybe they should enforce the rules so that IPs from China use it, and not our servers?
Think about how many mission hubs would become playable once CCP moves these unwanted chens to their respective server... _____________________
Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
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Victor Kruger
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Posted - 2008.09.23 19:10:00 -
[33]
Don't worry, the chinese Isk RMT farmer problem will solve itself eventually when the country suffocates on its own waste. --------------- Hey, where's my portrait |

Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.23 20:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Victor Kruger Don't worry, the chinese Isk RMT farmer problem will solve itself eventually when the country suffocates on its own waste.
Or more to the point, when stupid westerners suddenly don't have money to spend on buying ISK.
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Lady Valory
Caldari Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2008.09.23 20:42:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lady Valory on 23/09/2008 20:42:45 There is NO reason why a spawn in 0.0 should respawn with the original ships.
If someone kills a triple 185000 bs spawn and leaves the frigs, and waits 15 minute, that spawn respawns and can be farmed all day.
That needs to stop.
Whenever a spawn in 0.0 is agressed, in 15 min that entire spawn needs to vanish and be replaced with a random spawn from the spawn table.
That alone will cut the amount of isk down dramatically!
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Gergragda
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.23 20:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lady Valory Edited by: Lady Valory on 23/09/2008 20:42:45 There is NO reason why a spawn in 0.0 should respawn with the original ships.
If someone kills a triple 185000 bs spawn and leaves the frigs, and waits 15 minute, that spawn respawns and can be farmed all day.
That needs to stop.
Whenever a spawn in 0.0 is agressed, in 15 min that entire spawn needs to vanish and be replaced with a random spawn from the spawn table.
That alone will cut the amount of isk down dramatically!
Interesting I don't see many macro ratters that chain spawns, they tend to not even head out to where anything above 1.2mil BS's spawn which contain many belts and low traffic.
0.0 isn't very worth while for the individual pilot as it is in terms of risk vs reward and cutting down on it further isn't going to really hurt the farmer near as much as it's going to hurt the individuals that reside out in 0.0
Currently Level 4 mission running is just as or more profitable then a full out chained system if you disregard the very random named officer spawns (I've had one in over a year) and generally worthless (atleast angels are) faction spawns, which would only bump it ahead single digit numbers of mil isk per hour. While I don't think Level 4 missioning should be nerfed I don't think that it should be on the same income level as holding and maintaining space and living off it to the average player.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.23 22:46:00 -
[37]
You may not be able to ban sellers entirely, but you can prevent them from doing it on the servers themselves. The problem is, why ban accounts AFTER they have done the spamming? The websites being spammed on WAR are all the same handful of URLs.
Rather than letting them spam hundreds of thousands of people multiple times and then eventually ban them -- only to have them create more accounts and do it all again by the time they're banned, wouldn't it make more sense to ban the URLs from chat in the first place (without alerting the person saying the URL that it has been banned so they don't try to devise new ways to rephrase it)?
If you ban the URLs, you prevent millions of spam from each account before they're even spammed. Rather than re-acting to them after the damage is already done. Create 10,000 new accounts - you still can't get your URL out to the players on the server, so it doesn't matter.
As for EVE -- why not simply implement a number of heuristics against trial accounts? Why is this spamming still going on un-checked? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say "if a message contains a URL and the words isk, sell, cheap, price AND the author of the message is a trial account..."?
If nothing else, there should at least be a limit on trial accounts being able to say more than X number of lines in Y minutes. Why has a limit not been placed that AT THE VERY LEAST prevents the same account from spamming the same channel with the same message 10 times in as many seconds?
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Feilamya
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.23 23:16:00 -
[38]
Guess who M.J. targeted with the last paragraph:
Quote: BTW, for those who might be tempted to think that we are doing this so we could offer our own service or because we do make money off their boxes (traditionally, gold sellers will quickly shift to buddy disks and free trials though to lower their costs) let me tell you this. IÆve been offered ôa piece of the actionö both personally and corporately in the past if I will either turn a blind eye or help them in their actions. This would have netted me and/or Mythic a very, very tidy sum, far more than we would see from box sales. My answer was and always will remain the same:
Don't take it too serious though. This guy is the big mouth of Mythic Entertainment. His job is to produce hot air and hype, and he's doing a good job. Hot air won't keep the farmers out of the game, though. Farmers are or will be treated in WAR like in any other game. They just can't ban them all again and again and again.
All this article really shows is: Surprise! There are farmers in WAR! Which means it is yet another grind game...
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Xori Ruscuv
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.23 23:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 23/09/2008 23:21:06
Originally by: Feilamya Don't take it too serious though. This guy is the big mouth of Mythic Entertainment. His job is to produce hot air and hype, and he's doing a good job. Hot air won't keep the farmers out of the game, though. Farmers are or will be treated in WAR like in any other game. They just can't ban them all again and again and again.
All this article really shows is: Surprise! There are farmers in WAR! Which means it is yet another grind game...
That.
After playing beta for several months and enduring endless painful hype about how amazing and revolutionary WAR was supposed to be, I just have this to say:
World of Hypehammer.
/me Welcomes self back to Eve.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.09.24 01:33:00 -
[40]
the only way to completely stop the chinese gold farmers is to destroyz the chineze internetz. Proton torpedoes + ventilation shaft ftw!
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Blastrodamus
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Its facts! Wikipedia tells it.
hahahahahahaha are you serious?
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:12:00 -
[42]
I happen to know isk farmers down here where I live. They even sell the isk.
If I blew the whistle on them, however, I'd have RL repercussions coming right at me, in the form of a gun to the head.
Not every sweatshop "gold" farmer is some low-time shanty-town lot owner with internet access and some PC's. -
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:34:00 -
[43]
wow.. a thread where BOB, GOON and misc agree on something...
makes me feel all warm inside...
and the guy who tries to harp ideas such as ban all IPS
1) proxies.. it will never work.. they will find a way around it.. as long as westerners keep buying isk, those farmers will farm and sell..
the problem is WESTERNERS BUYING ISK!!!! NERF WESTERNERS (... see what I did just there?... thats how silly you looked when you went the who sino-bashing...)
The issue is: As long as someone is willing to pay COLD HARD CASH on something, SOMEONE (usually someone poorer) will work for it...
and yeah, NEVER fight against the guy who's next meal depends on what they do.. you will NOT Win... it will just create headaches for you...
2) The Chinese server, is only good for mainlanders.. there are Chinese (that cant play on the Chinese server) that routes near those IP ranges (iirc, HK and Taiwan) that well... your better damn have a selective filter...
but hey, we are talking about banning non-farmers here, farmers have tons of ways to bypass it.
3) like it or not, it IS racist to take action/label/attribute a neg quality to a group of identifiable people based on their physical features (yeah yeah... I got my basis covered) due to a minority in the group...
especially when said minority isnt even remotely representative of the people (other than having said physical features..)
as said in the previous examples. is like arresting all African Americans because "studies" shown that they are more likely to commit crime....(note the " ")
so yeah...
all in all..
the BEST way to get rid of RMT is to target the buyers...
either aggressively punish buyers and/or providing alternate, easily accessabile means (GTCs) for them to choose...
I still say the log in page needs a permanant msg that says:
"buying isk for real life cash from 3rd parties will result in said isk taken away, and a warning, repeat offenders will be banned. If you decide to buy isk, do so by CCP sanctioned method, purchase a Game time Card (LINK TO STORE) then trade it to another player for isk in secure trade."
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Aveng3X
Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari I happen to know isk farmers down here where I live. They even sell the isk.
If I blew the whistle on them, however, I'd have RL repercussions coming right at me, in the form of a gun to the head.
Not every sweatshop "gold" farmer is some low-time shanty-town lot owner with internet access and some PC's.
I would suggest moving...there's also such thing as anonymity. If they'd shoot you and you know about what they do, I wonder what the chances are that they brag about it to others?
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Lady Valory
Caldari Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:49:00 -
[45]
Well, you could have "deposits" for when you start to play.
You have to front 180 days in advance, and the new eula states that if you violate it, then you forfit the 90 days...
After 90 days you can either refund or roll the 90 days forward and play 3 months for free.
This would make the entering price to sub something high like $120 but would discourage farmers as if they farmed and got caught, they would lose more.
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Raving Gerbil
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Posted - 2008.09.25 00:09:00 -
[46]
There is no doubt at all that CCP could employ a 20 man team to simply fly around space all day permabanning isk farmers...
Its not hard, for one "go to hisec ice belt, find 6 chars all around a GSC named somthing similar to pidfposidfs, and ban him and his 5 other mackinaw friends and their hauler" However, if they remove ALL of the ice farming macroers, WHO is going to mine ALL the ice for ALL the posses in eve? Players maybe? would they be able to supply the same amount?
It all boils down to one thing and one thing only, CCP COULD do something, but they dont, for WHATEVER REASON, they dont, and they dont care either. Otherwise would have all stopped long ago.
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Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.09.25 00:26:00 -
[47]
The only way to stop RMT is...well, there's actually no way to stop RMT. It's like the USA trying to ban alcohol back in the 1920's, or trying to ban ********* or meth today. Every MMORPG has RMT, whether it's against the EULA or not, and whether or not the world has its own official currency/item market. Capitalism's "supply and demand" are powerful forces.
It comes down to a cost/benefit scenario, where game publishers have to decide what costs they are willing to pay for what level of benefit. No amount of resources will actually eliminate RMT, but any amount of resources will result in some level of benefit. From another perspective, players have to decide what risks they are willing to take for the benefits of RMT--a risk/benefit scenario. The best the game publishers can realistically expect is for the "average" customer to believe that the risks associated with RMT outweigh the benefits.
Banning IP's? If America still has illegal immigrants, counterfeit money, ****, murder, and crack *******, I doubt such an obvious solution really is.
Your Money or Your Life: the journal of a space pirate
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Komen
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.25 00:57:00 -
[48]
Lol at people responding to racist trolling.
That is all.
Seriously. "I read it on Wikipedia." Yeah, because that's such an authoritative information source.

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Zezug
Caldari Vice And Valour
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Posted - 2008.09.25 01:36:00 -
[49]
Yea lets do a reverse Great Firewall. Maybe it could be just as successful as the original one is. Oh wait... people get past that one pretty often, and that is run by a gov't that does not want its people to have free access. Do you really think that any company could accomplish it?
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Dashhammer II
Amarr O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.09.25 09:33:00 -
[50]
One of the horrible facts that CCP has to contend with is that gold selling... is a more lucrative business than the MMORPG business. Why do you think they started the whole GTC for isk thing?
It allows the isk farmers to quietly move their isk around and at the same time... makes a bit of profit for them as well. If CCP could get away with selling it's own isk for inflated prices... do you really think they wouldn't do it?
Lets take a quick step to the left of that question and ask 'How do we know they are not?'
- Dashhammer II |

Berious
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.25 11:42:00 -
[51]
There will always be isk sellers/farmers while there is money to be made selling isk. Banned accounts is an occupational hazard and just another business cost for them. Harsh punishments for the buyers is a far better way to reduce demand and therefore the farmers. Buyers generally care about their accounts and will think twice if a permaban is possible.
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Sephy'Ra
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Posted - 2008.09.25 12:13:00 -
[52]
Please correct me if this was just a random rumor but... Punkbuster! I heard some court has given them the right to ban people based on their hardware IDs (on a case to case basis). I specifically remember reading out CPU IDs and ban it. Whoever was banned there will need to purchase a new CPU in order to circumvent the ban.
Like I said, perhaps its just some random myth.
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.09.25 13:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: c0rn1 Well, why should you ban them right away. In Eve it'd be more fun if you just put a red big blinking cross on them and freeze their bank account. Let everybody shoot em once their case is proven. Give the GM a tool where he can mark those guys for everyone else killable everywhere. Just don't show it to them. And make these guys visible like a beacon across the solar system, so you can warp to them. So the community has some fun!
Let us have some fun while we do boring shopping runs in empire!
Rgrds
c0rn1
That sounds like the most feasible and funniest solution to me!
/signed
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Cybele Lanier
Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.09.25 15:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
last input from me to this very uncomfortable thread: OK! OK! what will stop them then???? Give me some input on what really CAN BE DONE??
Report, report, report. --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence." |

Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.09.25 15:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 23/09/2008 16:15:46
Originally by: Alz Shado How to Deal with Isk Sellers, by Mark Jacobs (an excerpt from here)
Originally by: Mark Jacobs We donÆt wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away. We have a strike team whose sole job it is to get these guys off our servers as quickly as possible.
You're doing it right.
A better way is to IP block whole China!
I have read from a dozen magazines now that 80% of the worlds ISK sellers come from China! This is simply plain fact! I cant remember what numbers of isk farmers/sellers we are speaking here, but I think it was more then like 100k farmers on MMOG world basis! If not much much more!! so yes! IP block the whole country. Create a superwall just like the chinese government do against their own. And keep it there until things the numbers have changed to like 20% sellers and 80% players in other online games! Maybe they can proxy around it, I dunno, but hopefully that can be stopped too.
well using your logic they should ip ban the world as the other 20% obviously come from the rest of the world!!!!!
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.09.25 15:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker A better way is to IP block whole China!
Right, because we don't want any legitimate customers from China on our server, and the IT staff at the farming sweat shops lack the basic compitence to set up a proxy to bipass the filter. 
They abuse the system because they can create constant streams of untraceable accounts.
You can put bogus information for your details and fund your accounts entirely via GTC, in the god knows how few actually get caught there is no trace whatsoever to them so they lose an account which has no real value. Stopping that account costs them next to nothing.
EVE should require registration of trial accounts to a valid credit card. Once you have a physical trace to a real person then you have greater scope to use the law to apprehend them or at least to ban them from creating more accounts. If one account gets banned then all accounts registered with that card get banned.
ATM they can stop these accounts until they go blue in the face, they will just create a replacement account 5 seconds later, so you can not stop them.
Registration makes it harder for them to do their business, makes it a lot harder for them them spam their business in-game. After you have registered, you should only then be able to use GTCs.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.09.25 15:58:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker I did not learn all that much during my time in the millitary a long time ago, but one thing I remember: if you are fighting a war, ensure you are using maximum firepower you have available to you! And the smartest and best tactics!
So.... you want to carpet-bomb that village over there cause it's .05% infested with insurgents? 
Maybe we need some smarter tactics.....
Hell yea....remember when the jap's came and bomb pearl harbor.....back when we had a spine....... We went right back over there and blew their ass's up....guess who we didnt here from after that..... so you sometime you have to sacrifice few to gain power to take over the world...ah ahah ahha ah aha aha (o wait we are cowards now)((god damn politics)) __________________________________________________
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Josef Odinssen
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Posted - 2008.09.26 01:05:00 -
[58]
the isk farmers are basically the games equivelent of real life money counterfeiters, but in this respect they are basically stealing money (via resource farming) from genuine players.
IMHO the best solution is for CCP to create a Concord Sanctioned player task force, as someone pointed out the devs dont have resources to police all the isk farmers all day, but there are plenty of players with time and boredom who would relish the opportunity to indulge in some state sponsored isk farming murder.
so:
Since the isk they are farming is being farmed from resources belong to players, then allow players to police them, as someone pointed out its not a work of genius to scan the galaxy for players called xeterhteteht sat in a roid belt all day grinding veldspar etc, so player task force nails said iskies farmer and collects said farmers stash of iskies as a bounty to fund state issue BS iskie farmer pwnage mobiles.
job done.
obviously some carebears will get caught in the fray, but hey how that could be considered a bonus in some quarters and you cant make a omelette without breaking eggs.
or carebears.
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