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Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:47:00 - [181] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: Cpt Branko (a) Wall of text! (b) He was talking about a Myrmidon, I believe. Anyway, Myrmidon uses a scrambler. Mega cannot MWD and control transversal anymore. So a BC isnt automatically dead when fighting a BS? Oh the horror. Well, a BS being automatically dead when fighting a BC is balanced, then? Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? Can a BC tank as much as a BS? Nope. Its pretty much the same argument youre using that it is ok for pulses to lose in webrange and not being able to hit a BS sized target but blasters should just because pulses can hit 40km also. So wich is it going to be?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:51:00 - [182] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? Can a BC tank as much as a BS? Nope. Its pretty much the same argument youre using that it is ok for pulses to lose in webrange and not being able to hit a BS sized target but blasters should just because pulses can hit 40km also. So wich is it going to be? So, wait. Are you trying to say BCs don't have things battleships can't do and they can? Can a BS fit warfare links? Can a BS barbeque any sub 8km/s ceptor in 28km range? No. BCs can (well, admittedly, Harbringer/Hurricane are the only two capable of doing the latter). Should the 'win vs turret BS in webrange trivially' be added to their list of capabilities? No, not really. Furthermore, you're saying that being able to go to station, dock, refit a totally different fit which is useful for 150km sniping only is somehow equivalent (as you say, same argument) to being able to hit both in webrange well and up to 45 KM with the same fit? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:54:00 - [183] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? Can a BC tank as much as a BS? Nope. Its pretty much the same argument youre using that it is ok for pulses to lose in webrange and not being able to hit a BS sized target but blasters should just because pulses can hit 40km also. So wich is it going to be? So, wait. Are you trying to say BCs don't have things battleships can't do and they can? Can a BS fit warfare links? Can a BS barbeque any sub 8km/s ceptor in 28km range? No. BCs can (well, admittedly, Harbringer/Hurricane are the only two capable of doing the latter). Should the 'win vs turret BS in webrange trivially' be added to their list of capabilities? No, not really. Furthermore, you're saying that being able to go to station, dock, refit a totally different fit which is useful for 150km sniping only is somehow equivalent (as you say, same argument) to being able to hit both in webrange well and up to 45 KM with the same fit? Every ship type has its ups and downs. BS shouldnt be a bigger and nastier BC, because that is what they are right now. Its not like BSs wont be used just because they cant hit a BC in webrange anymore. Its quite fine tbh.
NightmareX MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:56:00 - [184] Edited by: NightmareX on 25/09/2008 11:03:45 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Yeah but pulses arent hitting anything in webrange either if the blasters arent. That is what you are whining about isnt it? Pulses are hitting at their optimal ranges vs preety much everything. Blasters are not hitting properly at their optimal ranges. Are you being stupid on purpose? Well from my experience i have never had ANY problem at ALL to hit targets in optimal range when the targets are webbed with a Megathron. Not even frigs have been hard to hit. Like the time in my Megathron Federate Issue on sisi when the web and speed nerf was there. Then i was fighting a Pilgrim that had 2x Tracking Disruptors on me. And you can guess i had hard times to hit that ship when he was orbiting me at 300 m/s 5 km from me. But the thing is that i still did hit him, but not good enough to kill him. I had him down to structure though. And i will say by getting dual tracking disrupted, i will say the tracking is pretty good on a Mega when i still can hit him then tbh. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:56:00 - [185] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/09/2008 10:56:55 Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Every ship type has its ups and downs. BS shouldnt be a bigger and nastier BC, because that is what they are right now. Its not like BSs wont be used just because they cant hit a BC in webrange anymore. Its quite fine tbh. Admittedly true, but what's the point of using a weapon system which does not have the tracking to fight at its optimal range, when systems which can suck just a bit more at short range while rocking at mid range are available? Originally by: NightmareX Well from my experience i have never had ANY problem at ALL to hit targets in optimal range when the targets are webbed with a Megathron. Not even frigs have been hard to hit. Discussion is assuming sisi web/scram changes are going through. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:58:00 - [186] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Yeah but pulses arent hitting anything in webrange either if the blasters arent. That is what you are whining about isnt it? Pulses are hitting at their optimal ranges vs preety much everything. Blasters are not hitting properly at their optimal ranges. Are you being stupid on purpose? Well from my experience i have never had ANY problem at ALL to hit targets in optimal range when the targets are webbed with a Megathron. Not even frigs have been hard to hit. This. Alot of people are making up stuff that isnt true to boost blasters.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:59:00 - [187] Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/09/2008 11:00:29 Imo BS are supposed to be win vs BC without many issues. BC are supposed to be win vs cruisers, but BS should not be win vs cruisers without any issues. (and besides blasters a mega still got plenty of drones and a heavy neut if he wants too to fight cruisers). Then: Assuming the myrm has a 500m orbit is easy, but not realistic imo. A myrm is barely faster than a megathron, and it isnt that easy to control range. Also, i seriously doubt i will ever put a warp scrambler on a myrmidon. Sure you got 5 mid slots, but then i rather use one mid for ECCM with all the falcons and ECM drones arround. And i do want to have a warp disruptor fitted on a myrmidon which can do damage outside 5km. And it is easy to say that the relative tracking of pulses is better because they got more range, but that isnt really important if the fight is still at close range. Imo what is the problem is that a pulse geddon for example does almost the same damage as a megathron, pretty much equal tank, but far better range. It should just have a reduction in dps, at range i dont care if it is much better than megathron, but give the mega the ability to really out dps a geddon at close range.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:59:00 - [188] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran This. Alot of people are making up stuff that isnt true to boost blasters. Unless you've tested the speed changes, your experience does not compute. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:59:00 - [189] Originally by: Cpt Branko Admittedly true, but what's the point of using a weapon system which does not have the tracking to fight at its optimal range, when systems which can suck just a bit more at short range while rocking at mid range are available? Dont need to crosstrain 15mill sp and you have good dps? And you have other great ships? And its an easy pvp race to train? Wait you want easy to train race, best close range solo weapons, best long range sniping, best t1 lineup and best everything right?
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:05:00 - [190] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: NightmareX Yes all Large turrets need to get the tracking boosted if the web and speed nerf hit TQ. Yeah but thats not what they want. They want only large blasters to get a tracking boost so their blaster ships can mwd orbit and collect win every time in web range and once again be solo pwnmobiles of the low sec. HAHAHAhAHAHHAHHHAAAAhahAHhahahaahHaha.aha..hhaahahah......hah...
NightmareX MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:06:00 - [191] And to tell this like it is. To those who say yeeeahhh, Amarr today is the absolute win in PVP, so you should all go Amarr. Do you know that by saying that, it will be the same as asking CCP to nerf Amarr right?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:07:00 - [192] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/09/2008 11:08:14 Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: Cpt Branko Admittedly true, but what's the point of using a weapon system which does not have the tracking to fight at its optimal range, when systems which can suck just a bit more at short range while rocking at mid range are available? Dont need to crosstrain 15mill sp and you have good dps? And you have other great ships? And its an easy pvp race to train? Easy? Compared to who? Minmatar? Yeah. Good DPS? Yeah, but only in perfect situations and people stick at point blank ranges. Reviewing anything with 2-3 BS involved, Amarr BS just flat out outpreformed everyone else. Other great ships? Most races have more great ships then Gallente do. So it really boils down to, you can fly the ship with a lot of SP behind it and can't be bothered to cross-train. Which is a preety poor reason to fly it, you have to admit. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Princess 02	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:46:00 - [193] Edited by: Princess 02 on 25/09/2008 11:48:27 WOW... just WOW... a few months ago, Amarr was the underdogs... Now they rulz... LOL It took us more than 2 bloody years to convince the devs to take a look... more than 2 bloody years to suck it up and "adapt"... and now OMG they are overpowered... by changing the EM resist they are now overpowered?!?!!? What make you think Gallente need a BOOST ATM??? because of the upcoming nanonerf that NO PLAYER can confim how CCP goign to do it??? Emphaiss on ""CONFIRM""... Sisi is NO guarantee... Wait till we get another Dev blog and more info of what they have finally decided about what's going to be in the nano nerf ffs!!! If you think web nerf goign to affect only u Gallente, u are mistaken... even Amarr will be in trouble and dont have enough mid slots to adapt as ur "underpowered" blaster boats... However, I do agree Minmatar alpha-dammage needs to be addressed... and torps > blasters at close-/mid- range...
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:49:00 - [194] Originally by: Princess 02 WOW... just WOW... a few months ago, Amarr was the underdogs... Now they rulz... LOL It took us more than 2 bloody years to convince the devs to take a look... more than 2 bloody years to suck it up and "adapt"... and now OMG they are overpowered... by changing the EM resist they are now overpowered?!?!!? You know, i could answer the same some people have been doing in this thread: Amarr has never been underpowered, there was a constant whining on the forums about it since the people that fly them had no ****ing clue... Now THATS a good argument amirite!?!?!
Shosoru Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.25 11:56:00 - [195] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/09/2008 10:43:21 (a) Wall of text! (b) He was talking about a Myrmidon, I believe. Anyway, Myrmidon uses a scrambler. Mega cannot MWD and control transversal anymore. Cpt Branko I meant a myrmidon but sad hyp sorry (hyp cant loose a sig radiouse advantage ^^) iv edited it. if the scrams get that ability a myrm and the myrm uses one and the mega also uses one the mega must just fly, the myrm isn't much faster then a mega and would be more like following the mega then orbiting it = lower transversal. with ab this might look different a bit. ------------------------------ WTB: Minmatar X-Type Duck-Tape
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.09.25 12:29:00 - [196] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Ugh... I'm going to try this in my most kiddy-friendly tone. Okay, here's the thing... Firing on an opponent is not going to simultaneously slow them down and keep them from warping. It's going to make them upset and scared or angry, and then they will either run away or kill you. See that's how people react when you try to hurt them. And it's what's going to happen when they can both move and shoot, both at the same time. You got that? Good. Now, when these people run away, what good does shooting do you? Nothing. You just waste ammo. Got that too? And if they turn on you and shoot you back and kill you, if they know they can, because they are out of webbing and scramming range, what good does shooting do you? Nothing. See what I'm getting at here? So, if blasterboats can't keep their enemies in place and get within 6000 meters, and if shooting is just going to be a waste of ammo or kill you? And if you backtrack this whole explanation and realize that it's all about being able to keep enemies in place, not really the guns? Are you starting to work things out here?! Jackass attitude aside - what you're describing isn't a "blasterboat" problem. Its a general combat problem. A torp boat, cruise boat, laser boat, or "chimpanzee's flinging poo" boat is still going to have to keep someone around ultimately long enough to die. Issues with the general web nerf that affect everyone equally isn't the issue. With weapon systems the differences primarily boil down to how much effective damage you're doing (after factoring in tracking) at what cost in terms of losing range advantage - with the general idea being that theoretically the closer you have to get the more damage you should do. If the issue is kiting I think the obvious thing is that "If they're not in your web/scram range, you're not in their web & scram range" so there's no obvious imbalance there.
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 13:18:00 - [197] Originally by: Cpt Branko Amarr BS just flat out outpreformed everyone else. And the geddon and raven have how many mids for tackle? Thought so...
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.25 14:04:00 - [198] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? My fleet ferox hits out past 150km.. Awesome EVE history
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 14:42:00 - [199] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? My fleet ferox hits out past 150km.. Well the average BC cant, the point still stands. The average BS can though.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:13:00 - [200] Originally by: Gypsio III I hate to break into Liang's rantings, but we know that missiles will be changed, so it's stupid to draw any conclusions about future missile performance from the test server. We know that missiles will be changed, but we also know that the expressly quoted reason for the nano nerf is that missiles were unable to damage nano cruisers. I think it's fairly safe to say that they'll continue to be able to wtfpwn them. -Liang --
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:14:00 - [201] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran And the geddon and raven have how many mids for tackle? Thought so... One and Five respectively. -Liang --
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:19:00 - [202] Originally by: Princess 02 WOW... just WOW... a few months ago, Amarr was the underdogs... Now they rulz... LOL It took us more than 2 bloody years to convince the devs to take a look... more than 2 bloody years to suck it up and "adapt"... and now OMG they are overpowered... by changing the EM resist they are now overpowered?!?!!? What make you think Gallente need a BOOST ATM??? because of the upcoming nanonerf that NO PLAYER can confim how CCP goign to do it??? Emphaiss on ""CONFIRM""... Sisi is NO guarantee... Wait till we get another Dev blog and more info of what they have finally decided about what's going to be in the nano nerf ffs!!! If you think web nerf goign to affect only u Gallente, u are mistaken... even Amarr will be in trouble and dont have enough mid slots to adapt as ur "underpowered" blaster boats... However, I do agree Minmatar alpha-dammage needs to be addressed... and torps > blasters at close-/mid- range... Go read the OP again and you will begin to understand why what you're saying is silly. :) If you'd really like a run down on the list of boosts and nerfs that pushed Amarr over the top, I think I can go find it again. -Liang --
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:22:00 - [203] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Can a BC hit 150km with sniper fittings? Mine can hit 200km.... not sure what your problem is. Quote: Can a BC tank as much as a BS? Yes... most of them can - especially if you take into account the damage reduction from a smaller sig radius. Quote: Its pretty much the same argument youre using that it is ok for pulses to lose in webrange and not being able to hit a BS sized target but blasters should just because pulses can hit 40km also. So wich is it going to be? So if I read what you're saying here right, you're saying that pulse lasers should do 95% of the damage of blasters at every range? Wow, you're dense. Just stop trolling... you've successfully distracted most people from the point of the OP anyway. -Liang --
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:42:00 - [204] Originally by: Liang Nuren One and Five respectively. -Liang Ed: But the real question here is how likely your BS is to be making the tackle. And remember that I'm a pirate in Minnie lowsec that believes that everyone fits a point. Raven has five mids for tackle? Wow, and would you like to compare the tank of that raven and the blaster BS? Thought so.
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:44:00 - [205] Originally by: Liang Nuren Mine can hit 200km.... not sure what your problem is. Dont be anal. You know most BCs dont hit anything near sniping battleship ranges. Originally by: Liang Nuren Yes... most of them can - especially if you take into account the damage reduction from a smaller sig radius Uhm no? BCs are actually known to pretty much take full damage from everything but not have the tank of a BS.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:46:00 - [206] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Raven has five mids for tackle? Wow, and would you like to compare the tank of that raven and the blaster BS? Thought so. I dunno, last I checked 120K EHP was pretty decent on a battleship. -Liang --
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:47:00 - [207] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Raven has five mids for tackle? Wow, and would you like to compare the tank of that raven and the blaster BS? Thought so. I dunno, last I checked 120K EHP was pretty decent on a battleship. -Liang And youre comparing that to the tank of a blaster mega with full tackle? Dont make me laugh.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:50:00 - [208] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Dont be anal. You know most BCs dont hit anything near sniping battleship ranges. Um. Right. Quote: Uhm no? BCs are actually known to pretty much take full damage from everything but not have the tank of a BS. Please look into something called signature resolution and signature radius. Turret Battleships have 400 sig resolution and BC's have sub 300 signature radius (especially armor based BCs). This acts as a multiplier for any transversal that you do have. To say that they receive "full damage" is extremely misleading (and in most cases outright false). Once the web nerf hits, you're just talking out your ass. If you posted less and read more, you might learn something. -Liang --
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.25 15:52:00 - [209] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran And youre comparing that to the tank of a blaster mega with full tackle? Dont make me laugh. A similarly skilled blaster mega doesn't have 120K EHP unless he has slaves. Adding slaves into the equation favors the raven quite dramatically. -Liang --
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:58:00 - [210] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Raven has five mids for tackle? Wow, and would you like to compare the tank of that raven and the blaster BS? Thought so. I dunno, last I checked 120K EHP was pretty decent on a battleship. -Liang And youre comparing that to the tank of a blaster mega with full tackle? Dont make me laugh. No, you make us laugh. Please keep up the good work (as a funny troll that is)!

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