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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:05:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Personally I would have demanded 16 bil.
How much of the Jericho Fraction corp assets did you demand after you left a while ago? You were certainly a long-standing member of the corporation and would according to your reasoning have had a right to a significant part of the corp assets.
Honestly....I demanded nothing. That doesnt mean I wasnt offered.
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hakera
The concept of socilism and a socialist eve corp is really lost on you isn't it Alexandra 
You cant just expect such a corp to fork out when some disgruntled member leaves, especially not the tune of 16bill, suddenly forgetting the whole concept by which they live and compensating every member for their entire work life by suiddenly having a captialist policy when they leave.
Sorry but that is utter rubbish.
It says in carbide's recruitment thread and spells it out clearly what you are in for and what the corp is like when you join. Because some ex-members decide to disregard all that for greed and use a pirate corp to try and make Carbide give into their unreasonable demands is lame tbh.
Crytek deserve everything they get. They are a pirate corp trying to ransom a peaceful mining corp using disgruntled ex members as an excuse, nothing more.
Socialism doesnt automatically denote that a corporation shouldnt compensate its members, that is plain and simple decency. If Latta and crew want to negate the compensation of those members and render their service pointless, it is certainly worthy of war, like it or not.
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Propehcy
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:08:00 -
[33]
Go CA Go! 
-The DarkHand
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Personally I would have demanded 16 bil.
This is complete bull. If Carbide were to pay out 10 percent of what all its members ever made this would bankrupt Carbide I am sure. No honest corporation could ever pay out back what its members have put into it over time. Think if your corporation could do it.
I mean the corporation spent money on its members and enforcing policies/wars. These things cost money. You could have opposed these policies and overthrown the CEO or left if they were incompetent but by staying you supported them so your money was spent on you. By staying and now wanting reimbursement it is like saying ok I will try but if we fail then I want my money back. Its not called a store, its called a corporation that you joined.
Furthermore, its impractical if you tell me to give you all my current money and go into debt to pay you back for your previous work. I mean I have never taken money from anyone in this game so I think that my ethics are OK but I think that if someone asked me to mine to give them isk I would not do it unless they were my really really good friends but then it would be my gift to them. If you claimed that I owe you money for something I would probably find a counter claim that you owe me for something else before I would strap on some miner 2s. So its not a realistic demand.
Finally, if this claim was deemed just why would anyone want to start a corporation? Why would I start a corporation when I knew that down the road I would have to repay all my corporate members all the money that they ever made?
Sorry for the long post but even though I am neutral this nonsense being posted everywhere...
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Chenta Peng
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:10:00 -
[35]
Alexandra you must not have read my post. It's as clear and simple as any could be. Next time don't just scroll to the last page and post without reading. You just look like a fool.
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Kelly O'Connor
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:12:00 -
[36]
I think Carbide are operating very dubiously and the fact even they admit the ex members were among the hardest working people....
speaks for itself.
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Propehcy
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:12:00 -
[37]
CA Decalares war on Eve.
Y-Y-Y-You Been HIJACKED!!!
And My sig.. Really owns.. Isn't That Right NotFerr!! You lazy ****er! Where For Art Thou!
-The DarkHand
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Propehcy
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:14:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Alexandra you must not have read my post. It's as clear and simple as any could be. Next time don't just scroll to the last page and post without reading. You just look like a fool.
Bugger.. That's what I did.. 
-The DarkHand
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Eleese
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:16:00 -
[39]
HAHAHA this is another of those funny thread we demand this silly amount of money because we are greedy and or just want a war and are trying to justify it so we dont look like idiots. The members of carbide knew exactly the type of corp it was when they joined it is entirely their fault, carbide owes them F-all now they have left, and esp not 8months work, they knew the type of corp it was within 1 week of being a member. (and since i was a member of carbide on another account when dk metz , mossy, helen were members) the weekly mining ops at that time were roughly 10-15mil of ore per day mining in tash murkon prime. so the entire corp made roughly 120-150mil a week lets call it 200mil a week. divide that by 30-40 members who were active. 200/30 is 6.6mil per week so thats what they are untitled to 7mil isk. After that first week its they knew the type of corp i certainly did and left (asking for nothing).
Another point of view in real life you have a job for 25years and your are made redundant you get alot of money pay of, you get fired you can sue for compensation, you just leave without saying or asking for redununcy you get absolutly nothing!!
Crytek is nothing but greedy immature pirates.
ps. this is a personal view not a corp view point :D
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Darken Two
Wow alexandra thats some weird logic you used there. Firstly, 200mil per month might be possible to obain per month but Im pretty sure Latta or somebody else pointed out they got 27 bships in the 8months they were there. That should be lets say on avg about maybe 2-3bil there plus the mods and other assorted stuff I'm sure Carbide provides like every other corp does.
Not true. Im quite positive that given the average player of 2-4 hours per day and the fact that they worked as a team, this is still not adequate compensation. 3 hours per day times 30 days is about 90 hours per month. Multiply this by 8 months and thats 720 hours of work per player times 10 players
7200 hours.
Surely thier time is worth more than 416,666k per hour...I can make that mining in my blackbird.
Quote:
Secondly I dont think you can join a corp that espouses socialist ideals and suddenly expect them to turn capitalist and compensate you when you feel like leaving.
Agreed. But simple decency would denote that they offer something, and 300 mil plus a raven to divide among 10 members is a slap in the face.
Quote:
Thirdly can all the people accusing other of e-bay selling please provide proof of the matter or just shut up and stop whining.
Yep I agree, that would be nice.
Quote:
And finally its faily obvious everyone except CoD think Carbide is right, so thers not much point in arguing.
Hmmmm - a very extreme statement. I highly doubt that it can be taken seriously. Too much always and never....
Love and Freedom
Alexandra
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Socialism doesnt automatically denote that a corporation shouldnt compensate its members, that is plain and simple decency. If Latta and crew want to negate the compensation of those members and render their service pointless, it is certainly worthy of war, like it or not.
Yes it does!
Think about it, you have a corp that decides all income from each player is to be pooled into the corp fund. The corp uses this fund to purchase assets to make the corp grow. If one of these suddenly decides they have had enough they go and demand everything they have worked for back.
This DESTROYS the whole model as on any scale, the socialist model fails on this premise if you are forced to sell assets and turn capitalist when someone leaves, effectivelly, the leverage is removed from the corp to the player if you followed this policy with players only using the corp to gain isk until they feel their wallets and hangers are fat enough to leave then demand what 'they are owed'.
Sorry, but your wrong Alexandra, try running such a corp where you pay out for any member that leaves, take a small 10 man socilist corp that buys its first cruiser bpo, those ten people mine together to build each other cruisers.
Take one disgruntled member of the ten who walks out with his cruiser and demands 1/10 of the bpo. Thats ok, we compensate members, so they sell bpo (usally at a loss), get isk back and give him 1/10 of that effectivelly crippling their whole corp until they can recover that 1/10.
It cant work like that, should not work like that, people joining such corps should be aware, that their efforts are combined, that everything they need is provided in return by working with your fellow corp members. This is not for you, but for the corp, for everyone.
Of course, it has to work past personal greed for such a model to work.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Chenta Peng
Alexandra you must not have read my post. It's as clear and simple as any could be. Next time don't just scroll to the last page and post without reading. You just look like a fool.
NO I read it, I just chose not to heed your biassed ignorance
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Alexandra Belani
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hakera
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Socialism doesnt automatically denote that a corporation shouldnt compensate its members, that is plain and simple decency. If Latta and crew want to negate the compensation of those members and render their service pointless, it is certainly worthy of war, like it or not.
Yes it does!
Think about it, you have a corp that decides all income from each player is to be pooled into the corp fund. The corp uses this fund to purchase assets to make the corp grow. If one of these suddenly decides they have had enough they go and demand everything they have worked for back.
This DESTROYS the whole model as on any scale, the socialist model fails on this premise if you are forced to sell assets and turn capitalist when someone leaves, effectivelly, the leverage is removed from the corp to the player if you followed this policy with players only using the corp to gain isk until they feel their wallets and hangers are fat enough to leave then demand what 'they are owed'.
Sorry, but your wrong Alexandra, try running such a corp where you pay out for any member that leaves, take a small 10 man socilist corp that buys its first cruiser bpo, those ten people mine together to build each other cruisers.
Take one disgruntled member of the ten who walks out with his cruiser and demands 1/10 of the bpo. Thats ok, we compensate members, so they sell bpo (usally at a loss), get isk back and give him 1/10 of that effectivelly crippling their whole corp until they can recover that 1/10.
It cant work like that, should not work like that, people joining such corps should be aware, that their efforts are combined, that everything they need is provided in return by working with your fellow corp members. This is not for you, but for the corp, for everyone.
Of course, it has to work past personal greed for such a model to work.
I understand what you are saying, however, this would not cripple the corporation if they simply accepted the offer Talsarius gave them.
If it was truely for everyone then they deserve a fair portion of what they put into it.
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Propehcy
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:30:00 -
[44]
What an intelligant and sexy debate  .
The DarkHand Is Watching! 
-The DarkHand
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
NeoChrome
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:32:00 -
[45]
All the muppet corps that decide to protect Carbide will be dealt with in order and comepletely anihilated, we are not worried about any resistance that Carbide possibly could come up with.
I can sit there and talk about all the reasons why anihilating Carbide is justice in it's purest form, but im not going to, cause i think Talsarious made it quite clear to the reasons why.
They have no idea at all what they have started here, and yes they have started IT !
The pure ignorance and utter lunacy that Carbides leadership seem to suffer from, must be a genetical predispositon that is out of the ordinary.
In regards to any aiding corps on Carbides side, let me say this, we cant wait, so bring it, god knows we need to cleance EVE of marxist run corps at the expence of their members, and any that supports them , and ohh btw bring alot of bodybags, because you going to be needing them !!
The way of the lotion...
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:34:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Alexandra Belani on 19/06/2004 18:36:15
Originally by: Eleese
Another point of view in real life you have a job for 25years and your are made redundant you get alot of money pay of, you get fired you can sue for compensation, you just leave without saying or asking for redununcy you get absolutly nothing!! Quote:
Talsarius is a good lawyer, isnt he 
Quote:
Crytek is nothing but greedy immature pirates.
Interesting statement, since Talsarius is sacrificing to see those members of Carbide Industries that were wronged receive compensation. Crytek gets nothing for it.
Sounds more selfless and honourable than greedy and immature
Love and Freedom
Alexandra
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Notferr
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:36:00 -
[47]
Proph!
Thout shall die! What up?!
- N -
Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse
Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
NO I read it, I just chose not to heed your biassed ignorance
Did you read mine? To be 1337 in forum hoing you have to answer all posts not pick and choose.
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Eleese
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:38:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Interesting statement, since Talsarius is sacrificing to see those members of Carbide Industries that were wronged receive compensation. Crytek gets nothing for it.
Actually crytek gets 10 members worth 4billion isk. Im sure they will see benefit.
Also them declaring war for such a pethetic reason, is what i meant by immature. why dont they just say we are bored we feel like killing some people, that certainly what it looks like.
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Rthor
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Personally I would have demanded 16 bil.
This is complete bull. If Carbide were to pay out 10 percent of what all its members ever made this would bankrupt Carbide I am sure. No honest corporation could ever pay out back what its members have put into it over time. Think if your corporation could do it.
I mean the corporation spent money on its members and enforcing policies/wars. These things cost money. You could have opposed these policies and overthrown the CEO or left if they were incompetent but by staying you supported them so your money was spent on you. By staying and now wanting reimbursement it is like saying ok I will try but if we fail then I want my money back. Its not called a store, its called a corporation that you joined.
Furthermore, its impractical if you tell me to give you all my current money and go into debt to pay you back for your previous work. I mean I have never taken money from anyone in this game so I think that my ethics are OK but I think that if someone asked me to mine to give them isk I would not do it unless they were my really really good friends but then it would be my gift to them. If you claimed that I owe you money for something I would probably find a counter claim that you owe me for something else before I would strap on some miner 2s. So its not a realistic demand.
Finally, if this claim was deemed just why would anyone want to start a corporation? Why would I start a corporation when I knew that down the road I would have to repay all my corporate members all the money that they ever made?
Sorry for the long post but even though I am neutral this nonsense being posted everywhere...
mmmm well thats what they offered to pay, 10%. I'm simply calling their bluff on it. Read the chatlogs next time.
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:41:00 -
[51]
Are you Jade's alt?
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Eleese
Quote:
Interesting statement, since Talsarius is sacrificing to see those members of Carbide Industries that were wronged receive compensation. Crytek gets nothing for it.
Actually crytek gets 10 members worth 4billion isk. Im sure they will see benefit.
Also them declaring war for such a pethetic reason, is what i meant by immature. why dont they just say we are bored we feel like killing some people, that certainly what it looks like.
Interesting thought, however, you do not know of what you speak. Crytek is fighting for the rights of those members and if you think it is pathetic to defend your people with force if necessary, I am very glad that you arent my CEO.
Step Up or step off
Lex
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rthor
Are you Jade's alt?
hahahaha You know ive been asked that on more than one occasion. Talk to the both of us on teamspeak and you will know the truth.
Lexx
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
NeoChrome
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:43:00 -
[54]
Quote:
You're getting mighty c0cy for a PvP newb and carbear.. I would not be suprised if more people declared war on your a$$, just for acting so high and mighty when you aint.
Who calling you calling a noob, nubtard, ive been here since beta muppet, so put you're money where your mouth is - deliverance boy, or did they like you're mouth to much ?
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:45:00 -
[55]
Funny how CoD employs pirates to do their dirty work and ransom some corps.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Crytek is fighting for the rights of those members and if you think it is pathetic to defend your people with force if necessary, I am very glad that you arent my CEO.
Step Up or step off
Lex
So you are fighting for other people's freedom again?
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Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:47:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Alexandra Belani on 19/06/2004 18:48:49
Originally by: Rthor
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Crytek is fighting for the rights of those members and if you think it is pathetic to defend your people with force if necessary, I am very glad that you arent my CEO.
Step Up or step off
Lex
So you are fighting for other people's freedom again?
Not freedom...this time its Justice. A concept which you should learn to embrace...
Ok debate break for lunch...mmmmm chinese food.
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Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Eleese
|
Posted - 2004.06.19 18:48:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Eleese on 19/06/2004 18:49:34
Quote:
Interesting thought, however, you do not know of what you speak. Crytek is fighting for the rights of those members and if you think it is pathetic to defend your people with force if necessary, I am very glad that you arent my CEO.
Lmao i think its is pethetic to defend something that happened a month and half ago where the members concerned did nothing at the time nor mention it. Yet now crytek feel like making some cash and alot of publicity, they bring it up. And why the hell would i want to be a ceo when nice people like latta who gives a huge amount of his time to Carbide to help its members, and some people with a weak excuse for war try to slander his name and the corp he has worked hard fors name.
edit spelling
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Alexandra Belani
Not freedom...this time its Justice. A concept which you should learn to embrace...
If you fight for freedom..and Justice how can you be wrong?
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.06.19 18:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kelly O'Connor
I think Carbide are operating very dubiously and the fact even they admit the ex members were among the hardest working people....
speaks for itself.
For one reson or another these people left. IMO some left in a hissy fit, and some followed friends. Yes these people worked for the corp. but to imply that they were forced to do anything fails to aknowledge that this IS A GAME. people can do what they want. I have provided millions of isk in the form of mining operations, agent loot, and module sales. But I have to ask myself a question: could i have made that much if I was not part of the corp? NOT AT ALL. Mining in 0.0 under allied protection brings in much, much more than solo mining in the fringe regions of 0.0.
Latta is going outside of what many current members want by even making an offer to these ex-members. Its true they put in a huge effor to get carbide where it is today, but they also benifitd from the corp in terms of ships, modules and insurance. Yes they worked hard, but so do alot of players now who whould be getting the hard shaft if latta were to give into their demands.
Just based on your dialoge, you are acting more as a terrorist than anything else.
"we feel wronged - give into our demands or be killed"
Thats just not diplomatic at all.
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