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Rehmes Minmatar RillaCorp Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.28 05:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Damien Cerverus Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Damien Cerverus As a former NC frontline fighter before i can support the claims battle hardened makes /me coughs and chokes as he remembers fleet engagements including ZLZ, JZV, T-Z, and TVN. but then again as long as lag works for Bob and pets it will continue to exist as CCP like bending over for Bob Honestly m8 you need to drop the tinfoil hat somewhere. Many people were staring at the character selection screen for a long time before they could even get into the fray. Hell by the time the M-O battle came around i simply died before i could load the grid. I saw fighter drone damage while my screen say "character selection". So it happens to everyone not just the NC. Ofc its soo much easier to throw blame at other people than understand that when nodes crash it can go both ways. The cards have been in the NC's Hands at times when this happens and now its was in ours...... thats funny... in the first fight at zlz the nc gang was 2 jumps out and the entire constellation just froze for us. it took 45 minutes to make those 2 jumps. of those 45 minutes it took about 30 to take down the jammer. in the last 15 you got all your caps in and we waiting for us on the in gate to zlz. its funny how in that time everything worked out for you guys while we crashed whatever im not NC anymore, which is why i can post here. and the whole strategy of crashing the node before the enemy can retaliate really made the game suck. hope you have fun conquering the universe bob cuz youll have one massive blue blob in about 1 year and gasp youll finally get to the real goal.. fight the goons enjoy Everyone in large alliances has encountered these issues in the past, its a fact of the game and theres next to nothing poeple can do about it. You make it seem as if BoB and co. never encounter these issues and everything goes perfect for our side. I could waste my time stating all the instances that things didn't go too well and people and we lost, but i don't have to since just about every time we fail the NC made a point of rubbing our noses in it. The difference in all of this is that when we fail due to lag we don't make 239478587 threads about how we lost and how NC are haxors etc etc etc. I agree that it sucks to stare at a screen for hours on end and when you finally get on you find yourself in a clone vat bay, but that's the state of the game. And lets face it even if CCP manages to make nodes all powerful and sexy we as players will find a way to bring the performance to its knees. So you either choose to place the game as is or let go. Lets not start the blob issue and start throwing the blob jokes left and right, its a fact that the current mechanics for 0.0 warfare demand numbers. sry for the wall of text.....goon night and stop the emo raging its just a game. *Where am I?*
Lorgoth Children of Gjallarhorn	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Damien Cerverus As a former NC frontline fighter before i can support the claims battle hardened makes /me coughs and chokes as he remembers fleet engagements including ZLZ, JZV, T-Z, and TVN. but then again as long as lag works for Bob and pets it will continue to exist as CCP like bending over for Bob nc has... fighters? o.0 that's something new
Vasili Z Pyre of Gods	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Damien Cerverus but then again as long as lag works for Bob and pets it will continue to exist as CCP like bending over for Bob OH BOB, OH BOB! ------- Join POGS! Only Girls allowed. No fattys. I have a Calvin tattoo
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Hangman69 We all need to join hands and wish for change. If we wish hard enough rainbows may come out of our chests1!! ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYYYIIIING Awesome EVE history
PewPewLePewPew	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:31:00 - [35] Amulation has no effect on the 500vs500 lag. Someone who went to a dev interview or something stated that CCP is split up into 3 parts, Inside stations, Outside stations and bug hunting.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Damien Cerverus whatever im not NC anymore, which is why i can post here. and the whole strategy of crashing the node before the enemy can retaliate really made the game suck. hope you have fun conquering the universe bob cuz youll have one massive blue blob in about 1 year and gasp youll finally get to the real goal.. fight the goons enjoy Yes, of course thats our intentions, crash the node so we can stare at black screens (yes, it crashes for US too!) and laugh evily at how we will conquer eve in such a fashion Awesome EVE history
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:58:00 - [37] Lag sucks, both sides can agree on that. Posts about lag sucking suck, both sides can agree on that as well. That's a lot of sucking to go around tbh.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.28 07:06:00 - [38] you sure do whine alot for someone how has so few kills.
PsychoBones R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.28 08:39:00 - [39] ITT The PvP prowess of the NC can only be beaten by the servers conspiring against them. That is the only way anyone could ever conceive to stand up to the power of the elite forces of The Mighty NC. R.E.C.O.N. - Helping a soon-to-be defunct alliance failurecascade near you.
Ludi Svelte Northmann Newport News	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Rehmes Everyone in large alliances has encountered these issues in the past, its a fact of the game and theres next to nothing poeple can do about it. You make it seem as if BoB and co. never encounter these issues and everything goes perfect for our side. I could waste my time stating all the instances that things didn't go too well and people and we lost, but i don't have to since just about every time we fail the NC made a point of rubbing our noses in it. The difference in all of this is that when we fail due to lag we don't make 239478587 threads about how we lost and how NC are haxors etc etc etc. I agree that it sucks to stare at a screen for hours on end and when you finally get on you find yourself in a clone vat bay, but that's the state of the game. And lets face it even if CCP manages to make nodes all powerful and sexy we as players will find a way to bring the performance to its knees. So you either choose to place the game as is or let go. Lets not start the blob issue and start throwing the blob jokes left and right, its a fact that the current mechanics for 0.0 warfare demand numbers. sry for the wall of text.....goon night and stop the emo raging its just a game. Of course there is something you can do about it. Hit CCP where it hurts. In the pocket. Whilst they get your Ç$ú every month, no matter how much you whine, they aren't under any pressure to do much about it. Threaten their cashflow, cancel your accounts etc etc. Sadly this will never happen as a: most people accept it as part of the game (WHY!?!) and b: everyone else is as addicted as me. CCP have us all over a barrel and are taking turns to bang us. Mark my words though, the day someone like Brabham comes out with a viable eve alternative. With properly developed netcode and a scalable architecture that can cope with widespread fleet combat, unless you've done something to improve it for us. The lag will disappear overnight. Along with 80% of your turnover.
Xiong Yoshi Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Hangman69 My vent is that the 6 nippled cows are too shy and hide behind the bulls with the big horns. I offer no solution tho. I can help you with that. A bull is nothing more than a steak that hasn't been cooked. ------------------------------------------------ There are only two types of ships: those which have blown up; and those which will.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Keeves Originally by: Battle Hardened Wow after reading the replies to the post..I am aghast that everyone just accepts this and are sidestepping the issue by posting old promises by CCP to fix the problem. The smartass posts are the ones that worry me the most though , by offering no real input or view on the problem they the affirm that CCP can sit back and promise a better gameplay for your dollar and also give the Dev's the impression that they are under very little pressure to fix this broken world of EVE. CCP (crowd control productions) encourages PVP and promotes conflicts to keep EVE lively but refuse to provide a workable pallet to do so. They have been promising fixes forever...but it just never seems to happen...just more added "fluff"...factional warfare...planet interaction...station interaction..to appease the needs of pilots , to distract them of the flawed gamepley that has now become an EVE everyday occurance You a goddamned idiot. Seriously, you bring it on yourself. I havent had a single activation, desynch, or any other "lets bring as many carebears as we can into a system" lag in probably half a year. Next time you shoot yourself in the foot, whine elsewhere. If your enemy brings hundreds you need to bring hundreds or just give up on the system Not saying that peeople dont like to blob where they can but if people bring these kinds of numbers to try and wipe your pos etc then you need to counter it.
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:21:00 - [43] 1) They are working on it. Putting together a new supercomputer and getting it running 100% takes a very long time. 2) As said 100.000.000 times before. Ambulation does NOT affect anything that is server related and stopping ambulation would not speed up the process of improving the servers. The art designers, game developers and code writers are NOT working on the server. It is out of their field of expertise. Also, the ambulation engine is for WoD and EVE gets it as a side effect of that.
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:26:00 - [44] A big boost to reduce the lag would pass by reducing the number of drones deployed in theses fleet fights. For the EVE engine a human player or a drone is the same. 10 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. When towsands of drones are deployed during these fights there is no chance the system doesnt lag. A good way to fight this would be, reducing the number of drones ships can deploy, and boost the firepower and drone HP in the same proportion. ________________ God is my Wingman
Kovid Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:44:00 - [45] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 28/09/2008 10:33:5210 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. Wouldn't that be 10 (with 10 drones) carriers = 18-19 normal ships? Normal ships have 5 drones each normal. I'll give you a two to one ratio according to math. Not a ten to one.
Bagger Vance Pernicious Creed Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:46:00 - [46] servers will never be lagfree cause when server cn handle 500man blobs players will bring 1000man blobs so get used to the lag __________________________________________
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.28 10:50:00 - [47] Lacks penguins - Gob
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Kovid Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 28/09/2008 10:33:5210 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. Wouldn't that be 10 (with 10 drones) carriers = 18-19 normal ships? Normal ships have 5 drones each normal. I'll give you a two to one ratio according to math. Not a ten to one. The key point is a chaos-theory equation system of potential spheres of influence for every actor in a space. When a "normal" ship deploys the 5 drones you will have the "actor ship" + "5 actor drones" = 6 actors When a MS deploys 20 fighter drones ... 21 actors and so on. ________________ God is my Wingman
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:08:00 - [49] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Kovid Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 28/09/2008 10:33:5210 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. Wouldn't that be 10 (with 10 drones) carriers = 18-19 normal ships? Normal ships have 5 drones each normal. I'll give you a two to one ratio according to math. Not a ten to one. The key point is a chaos-theory equation system of potential spheres of influence for every actor in a space. When a "normal" ship deploys the 5 drones you will have the "actor ship" + "5 actor drones" = 6 actors When a MS deploys 20 fighter drones ... 21 actors and so on. I do wish people would shut up about drone 'lag'. With brackets off it isnt even noticable. Its mainly a graphical lag issue. What really grinds a system to a halt is when turret based ships starts shooting things. There is a reason for this, can't remember what it is now. Anyway, people really need to generally just STFU about it. Lag has been a factor in EVE since launch (when 30 v 30 created massive lag). The game performance hasn't quite kept pace with server population growth but its a damn sight better than it used to be. The problem is that people have such selective memories when it comes to these thing, they think they can remember a golden age of zero lag which never actually existed.
KurmoL Caldari Evil Activities United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:13:00 - [50] Originally by: O Thief Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Kovid Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 28/09/2008 10:33:5210 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. Wouldn't that be 10 (with 10 drones) carriers = 18-19 normal ships? Normal ships have 5 drones each normal. I'll give you a two to one ratio according to math. Not a ten to one. The key point is a chaos-theory equation system of potential spheres of influence for every actor in a space. When a "normal" ship deploys the 5 drones you will have the "actor ship" + "5 actor drones" = 6 actors When a MS deploys 20 fighter drones ... 21 actors and so on. I do wish people would shut up about drone 'lag'. With brackets off it isnt even noticable. Its mainly a graphical lag issue. What really grinds a system to a halt is when turret based ships starts shooting things. There is a reason for this, can't remember what it is now. Anyway, people really need to generally just STFU about it. Lag has been a factor in EVE since launch (when 30 v 30 created massive lag). The game performance hasn't quite kept pace with server population growth but its a damn sight better than it used to be. The problem is that people have such selective memories when it comes to these thing, they think they can remember a golden age of zero lag which never actually existed. HAVE MY BABIES! YOU JUST WON THE EVE CUP FINALY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT! may the sp«¬n be with u
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:16:00 - [51] Originally by: O Thief Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Kovid Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 28/09/2008 10:33:5210 carrier pilots with drones out are the equivalent to 110 players in that system to the eve engine. Wouldn't that be 10 (with 10 drones) carriers = 18-19 normal ships? Normal ships have 5 drones each normal. I'll give you a two to one ratio according to math. Not a ten to one. The key point is a chaos-theory equation system of potential spheres of influence for every actor in a space. When a "normal" ship deploys the 5 drones you will have the "actor ship" + "5 actor drones" = 6 actors When a MS deploys 20 fighter drones ... 21 actors and so on. I do wish people would shut up about drone 'lag'. With brackets off it isnt even noticable. Its mainly a graphical lag issue. What really grinds a system to a halt is when turret based ships starts shooting things. There is a reason for this, can't remember what it is now. Anyway, people really need to generally just STFU about it. Lag has been a factor in EVE since launch (when 30 v 30 created massive lag). The game performance hasn't quite kept pace with server population growth but its a damn sight better than it used to be. The problem is that people have such selective memories when it comes to these thing, they think they can remember a golden age of zero lag which never actually existed. Brackets off doesnt do shit when the server side has to make the calculations for all the "potential spheres of influence", brackets is good to reduce the lag from client side. The server handles very well medium engagments, and is now way better then it used to be. But for the massive fleet fights tooking place in the north and the drone clouds that most probably are deployed by both parties the server just can't handle as fast as people want. ________________ God is my Wingman
Shardrael Caldari Titan Industries Technology Team Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Fitz Chivalry Originally by: Keeves Originally by: Battle Hardened Wow after reading the replies to the post..I am aghast that everyone just accepts this and are sidestepping the issue by posting old promises by CCP to fix the problem. The smartass posts are the ones that worry me the most though , by offering no real input or view on the problem they the affirm that CCP can sit back and promise a better gameplay for your dollar and also give the Dev's the impression that they are under very little pressure to fix this broken world of EVE. CCP (crowd control productions) encourages PVP and promotes conflicts to keep EVE lively but refuse to provide a workable pallet to do so. They have been promising fixes forever...but it just never seems to happen...just more added "fluff"...factional warfare...planet interaction...station interaction..to appease the needs of pilots , to distract them of the flawed gamepley that has now become an EVE everyday occurance You a goddamned idiot. Seriously, you bring it on yourself. I havent had a single activation, desynch, or any other "lets bring as many carebears as we can into a system" lag in probably half a year. Next time you shoot yourself in the foot, whine elsewhere. If your enemy brings hundreds you need to bring hundreds or just give up on the system Not saying that peeople dont like to blob where they can but if people bring these kinds of numbers to try and wipe your pos etc then you need to counter it. have to agree with fitz here, complaining about someone bringing large numbers when they are being sieged by large numbers is so incredibly asinine it has just become the nature of eve that you bring what you have to a fight. if anyone really wanted good fights they would work out conditions numbers and shiptypes before hand and fight it out closer to a tournament then pos warfare currently allows
LoveKebab coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:22:00 - [53] are we gonna see new topic made by MM each time they will be close of losing ?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:27:00 - [54] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/09/2008 11:28:07 Originally by: O Thief I do wish people would shut up about drone 'lag'. With brackets off it isnt even noticable. Its mainly a graphical lag issue. You are wrong with this on so many levels... I had battles with 400+ local when response time was around 5 seconds (5 second lag) and no GFX issues. Had battles with 30 carriers and 50 ppl local and my screen would froze up (brackets on) - thats GFX issue (brackets off solved this). And some battles with brackets off and good GFX response will give you 30+ MINUTES MODULE ACTIVATION DELAY - yes this is the LAG. And THIS is the stuff everyone is talking about, not the GFX lag. And the issue pretty much boils down to what DeadDuck said: system goes ok, launch drones/fighters system dies. Recall em, wait 30 minutes for em to come back - system is playable again. Yes this is the reason we didnt usedrones while sieging XZH a while ago - because they would totally lock up system and let POS kill us 1 by 1. But looking at JU- lately (with local numbers similiar to XZH) we had drones deployed on jammer and everything was working pretty ok. So changes to server stuff are getting noticeable.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:32:00 - [55] Originally by: Battle Hardened Wow after reading the replies to the post..I am aghast that everyone just accepts this and are sidestepping the issue by posting old promises by CCP to fix the problem. We aren't! We're fully aware of the problems as well as you, and we're affected the same as you (for the conspiracy freaks). The main difference between GBC and NC is: WE DON'T WHINE ABOUT IT!!! We submit our bug reports, thus giving CCP the bits and pieces of information they need to solve the problem. We also have faith that they ARE trying to solve the problems as best they can. The technically aware of us knows that these are not easily solved problems. Thus they take time, sometimes years. Sometimes the problems AREN'T solvable and we just have to live with it. Those of us that are financially aware also knows that for a business like CCP, the amount of resources spent on a project must be in relation to the income gained from it.... 80% of EVE's players are NOT in 0.0/low-sec. What does that tell you? It tells me that PvP should only get around 20% of CCP's resources, but we do seem to be getting far more. CCP is surely neglecting us Do I like lag: No! Do I whine about it: No! Do I detest people who whine non-constructively: Yes! Do I like 'Walking in stations': Hell no! Do I accept that WiS is a legitimate CCP priority: Yes! Grow up and stop whining/crying! (..or don't stop. Your tears and emorage taste deliciously!) My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:35:00 - [56] This game just doesn't handle lag very well. I remeber games five years ago with 300 people fighting each other around fluffy castles and dancing mushrooms. You could run around a corner and load the whole fight in maybe 10 secs.
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:39:00 - [57] Originally by: DeadDuck Brackets off doesnt do shit when the server side has to make the calculations for all the "potential spheres of influence", brackets is good to reduce the lag from client side. The server handles very well medium engagments, and is now way better then it used to be. But for the massive fleet fights tooking place in the north and the drone clouds that most probably are deployed by both parties the server just can't handle as fast as people want. Drones are not the issue. Turret based ships shooting stuff creates far more lag. Someone who knows more about server architecture than me would have to explain why - all I know is that it is a fact.
O Thief The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Deva Blackfire But looking at JU- lately (with local numbers similiar to XZH) we had drones deployed on jammer and everything was working pretty ok. So changes to server stuff are getting noticeable. Indeed. Things are much better than they used to be
cptblood Minmatar Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:44:00 - [59] Originally by: Battle Hardened Wow after reading the replies to the post..I am aghast that everyone just accepts this and are sidestepping the issue by posting old promises by CCP to fix the problem. The smartass posts are the ones that worry me the most though , by offering no real input or view on the problem they the affirm that CCP can sit back and promise a better gameplay for your dollar and also give the Dev's the impression that they are under very little pressure to fix this broken world of EVE. CCP (crowd control productions) encourages PVP and promotes conflicts to keep EVE lively but refuse to provide a workable pallet to do so. They have been promising fixes forever...but it just never seems to happen...just more added "fluff"...factional warfare...planet interaction...station interaction..to appease the needs of pilots , to distract them of the flawed gamepley that has now become an EVE everyday occurance SIGNED It is overdue that ccp should pull thier fingers out and start fixing lag problems in EVE. I dont want more content in EVE i want to kill the NC on a level playing field where LAG does not decide the outcome.
Murdoch Morf Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:09:00 - [60] Originally by: cptblood Originally by: Battle Hardened Wow after reading the replies to the post..I am aghast that everyone just accepts this and are sidestepping the issue by posting old promises by CCP to fix the problem. The smartass posts are the ones that worry me the most though , by offering no real input or view on the problem they the affirm that CCP can sit back and promise a better gameplay for your dollar and also give the Dev's the impression that they are under very little pressure to fix this broken world of EVE. CCP (crowd control productions) encourages PVP and promotes conflicts to keep EVE lively but refuse to provide a workable pallet to do so. They have been promising fixes forever...but it just never seems to happen...just more added "fluff"...factional warfare...planet interaction...station interaction..to appease the needs of pilots , to distract them of the flawed gamepley that has now become an EVE everyday occurance SIGNED It is overdue that ccp should pull thier fingers out and start fixing lag problems in EVE. I dont want more content in EVE i want to kill the NC on a level playing field where LAG does not decide the outcome. Signed Dissapoints me to see so many people flaming a person stating the obvious. Why are people defending lag, i dont see how anyone could enjoy it. Some people in here i know even claim they have taken part in no lag fights, but i sure do remember them complaining as well about it quite a few times... Stop smacking someone for wanting to play the game without lag, being NC or Bob i dont care.

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