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Illwill Bill
Minmatar
Scandinavian Carebears AB
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:13:00 -
[61]
I log off at downtime.
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Ashlee Darksky
Minmatar
Forum Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:58:00 -
[62]
Screw ethics. I'll do whatever is necessary to kick you to the floor, spit on your face and grind you into the dirt.
After all, there are plenty of people waiting to do it to me!
Use any and all resources available to you to beat your opponent - simple! As someone said, logoffski doesn't make your ship get out any faster.. blah blah blah.
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> I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing
> Bring me the heads of 10 carebears, 5 bottles of BBQ sauce, firewood and a box of matches!
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Riffsajet
Gallente
BattleChimps Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:09:00 -
[63]
everyone does it ,whether to get away from hostile peeps/or use it as a tactic (logoff / logon)in systems to catch unsuspecting pilots.It"s your game and your ships ,so use any and all tactics possible ...
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:28:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/10/2008 15:33:30
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/10/2008 15:29:00
 Originally by: Farrqua
Bah, its a game. If you catch me its all good. If you log out when I have you then w/e, I guess you have your reasons to do it.
I view PVP (The guys that go out looking for a fight) loggoffskis' the same as I see the guys crowing about PVP prowess while they fit WCS's in the lows.
You don't avoid fitting WCS because it's 'unethical' to fit them. You avoid fitting WCS because they horribly gimp your combat ability, and if you do it in a gang, you're bringing a gimped ship and getting your gangmates killed that way. Before WCS got nerfed, it was fairly standard to fit it. It's an example of a bad feature CCP fixed.
As for logoffskis, well, until CCP fixes it, why not? Every legal mechanic which gives you a potential advantage and is not petitionable is fair game. You don't get any marks for playing fair. CCP will (hopefully) fix it eventually.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:34:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
You don't avoid fitting WCS because it's 'unethical' to fit them. You avoid fitting WCS because they horribly gimp your combat ability, and if you do it in a gang, you're bringing a gimped ship and getting your gangmates killed that way. Before WCS got nerfed, it was fairly standard to fit it.
fly against the caldari militia sometime. it's like a trip back in time.
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Sean Faust
Gallente
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:15:00 -
[66]
The real question here isn't about ethical, it's about metagaming. When playing games such as MMOs you're supposed to immerse yourself in it completely and act as though everything were real. Using tactics that exist outside of the realm of in-game physics (such as logoffski, log-on traps, dual boxing multiple accounts with falcon alts, etc) is referred to as "metagaming", which is very very carefully straddling that line that seperates tactics from outright cheating. They fall into the realm of "things that should be considered exploits but aren't."
It's your choice to play or not to play as though these "dirty tricks" are acceptable or not, but regardless of your opinions on the matter, it is not illegal, and you have to accept that you will often be going up against people who may not hold your sense of fair play and this is not a game where "the good guys always win."
For the record, I am opposed to metagaming in all its forms.
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Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:35:00 -
[67]
As has been mentioned...this is just a game. That being said, logging out to avoid the combat-loss of a ship is an indication of your true character. Is your psyche really that fragile that, when you make a mistake, you can't stand to have your ship blown up? If you can't roll with the punches in a game, you are probably not a very good person in RL. This is just my opinion, not directed at anyone in particular.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:42:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
As has been mentioned...this is just a game. That being said, logging out to avoid the combat-loss of a ship is an indication of your true character. Is your psyche really that fragile that, when you make a mistake, you can't stand to have your ship blown up? If you can't roll with the punches in a game, you are probably not a very good person in RL. This is just my opinion, not directed at anyone in particular.
You must be one of those suckers who plays fair and loses, but takes solace in 'taking the loss honourably'. Some people simply play to win.
So they use every dirty trick in the book which works (like the widespread poliferation of Falcon alts, like WCS nerfs used to be, etcetera) until it gets changed. We owe a lot of stuff in EVE (stacking penalities, etc, modern EVE tactics) to people who did exploit every advantage to win.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Daergaar
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:38:00 -
[69]
Well, I recently lost a Drake because I jumped into a gate camp, and my computer froze on jump in. When I came back (I restarted immediately), I was in my pod.
I'm a very new player so I just assumed there was a time period when you log out/disconnect before your ship disappears. From what happened to me, it certainly appears that way.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:01:00 -
[70]
It's a sad reflection on the current design of the game that this question is even asked.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.08 20:18:00 -
[71]
When she's done and not a moment before.
wait, what was the question again?
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:09:00 -
[72]
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 09/10/2008 09:13:08
Originally by: Daergaar
Well, I recently lost a Drake because I jumped into a gate camp, and my computer froze on jump in. When I came back (I restarted immediately), I was in my pod.
I'm a very new player so I just assumed there was a time period when you log out/disconnect before your ship disappears. From what happened to me, it certainly appears that way.
I sense a very poorly fitted drake for this to have happened.
However I am not slamming on you. I fitted more than one ship very poorly when I was new. You need to spend more time in smaller ships and check out battleclinic for a bit yet.
Good luck. 
Edit to add here since Navigator banhammerzored the other thread;
@Skunk, ships will disappear in a bubble after 60 seconds just like on a lowsec gate. However dps is usually a lot higher on bubblecamps (as the bubble is spensive) so they usually don't get away with it. In the other thread I mentioned a time I lost out on some loot due to one that did manage to get away with it.
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CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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Artur Zelic
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:25:00 -
[73]
For anyone who feels secure about being a ***, I recommend contacting Outcastmere corp for logoffski tips. they are the undisputed masters of this fine art
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H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:30:00 -
[74]
As the other thread regarding this topic was locked, let me please repeat my suggestion:
 Ignore when someone tries to log in his alt on the same account. No influence on the ship of the other character.
If someone 'loses connection' on a grid with other ships, make the disappear timer at least 2 minutes. He can warp to the 1M km spot if not scrambled.
Reply to angry carebear petition 'Our logs show nothing unusual'
???
Profit
If it's legitimate to lose ships to lag, then it's also legitimate to lose them to disconnects 
Or is CCP's position that pirates can sustain more punishment than carebears before quitting their accounts..?
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Artur Zelic
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:36:00 -
[75]
I also suggest you change your corp name to The Docking Rabbits
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sneakybustard
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:24:00 -
[76]
TEARS!! pirates whining not getting juicy targets killed. if logging off makes so many pirates cry, i sure as hell will do it whenever possible 
hahaha. |
Gilgamesh1980
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:22:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Gilgamesh1980 on 09/10/2008 11:23:25
interesting read.
if somone wants to logoff let them, ther eis still a timeframe for you to find them and let them wake up in a station in a fresh clone when happens, we have caught even freighters like this in the past.
whining about it won't make it go away, so why even bother.
I am especially surprised of Pirates whining about this tactic, especially as our breed tends to use any means to trap soemone, as in bait ships and the lot to get a target, so just bring a good prober along with you when roaming around and you will have these too.
it won't go away, and like in my own alliance I actually forbid the tactic, as I do not think it is good, however I don't really care if someone would try it outside of that point
the only ethical thing in EVE is to log off to let RL stuff take precedense over playing this game, in the EVE universe however, there are no real ethics, maybe morale, or sympathy but that's also a rare trait, just rules, and if logging off is not forbidden by rules or made illegal by CCP, who gives a flying f%$^
Supreme Commander and Diplomat of the Black Rabbits and Gurlstas associates |
Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:27:00 -
[78]
Posting my Thoughts here as the other thread was locked.
If a ship is tackled while aligning to it's emergency warp safespot then it should stay put in my opinion. It doesn't have that many negetive effects for someone logging off in a safespot with no agression timers. If someone managed to tackle your ship before you are able to align, you'd have been caught anyway, unless you were aligned but then you could just warp to the 'aligned object' then logout.
My alt has about 22 second probe time on Recon probes iirc. (rigged buzzard, cov ops 5, signal aq 5). Pretty much every sub-capital is going to have an align time shorter than that. And with a MWD every ship can have a 10 second align time. Add in 10-20 second warp time in just accelerating/decelerating and it takes at best about 30-40 seconds to catch someone in a safespot, providing you are already in probe range and you actually get a hit on your probes, as well as the scan deviation not requiring you to drop another probe or approach the ship to get within tackle range.
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Sha4d13
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:28:00 -
[79]
I have commented before- there are two easy steps to solving this issue:-
1- Have shooting at rats give you a 5 minute aggro timer. Instantly stops the cheap lame logoffski by ratters when a hostile enters system and forces them to pay attention and use some skill and thought.
2- Prevent ships from disappearing when logged if they are tackled during the timer. All fair.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Ore 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:13:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 09/10/2008 12:13:41
Easy solution I think. And very simple.
All players can LOG OFF whenever they want. Ethics does not come into it.
If you log off. The ship starts to warp away to 1mil KM or whatever. Then after like 1 minutes it disappears.
The only time this will not happen, is if you are tackled or in a bubble. If you have points of whatever like normal, you will sit in space until you are destroyed or like a 10minute timer will make you disappear to prevent you just being held there by a tackler so the fleet can arrive. If you gate camp, and you are cloaked and log off because youcan't escape. The ship decloaks and begins to enter warp. This means they can still tackle you before it aligns and can still point u.
When you log back in, you always warp back to where you warped in. ALWAYS. Even if you stop logging in, the ship will fly to the warp point and then warp back to 1mil KM and then disappear in 1 minute.
REALLY all this is it ethical stuff is annoying.
DC are s***, but you can try to petition them. If you get your ship back, then who cares, the killers still got the kill.
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Viktor Speranza
White Wolf Enterprises
Harmonious Ascent
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:42:00 -
[81]
The only unethical time to log off is when your other hobby is torturing small kittens or children. Then you should always play EVE.
Come to Penirgman VII û Ministry of Internal Order Assembly Plant to apply for WWES! |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:50:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Viktor Speranza
The only unethical time to log off is when your other hobby is torturing small kittens or children. Then you should always play EVE.
Phew - thx god I'm torturing and eating puppies
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Odessima
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.09 13:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: sneakybustard
TEARS!! pirates whining not getting juicy targets killed. if logging off makes so many pirates cry, i sure as hell will do it whenever possible
hahaha.
and the downside to that would be????
My comments are my own and arent neccesarily anything to do with my corp.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.10.09 14:38:00 -
[84]
Didn't read it all, but the logon trick with 1mil km away from log point can be easily fixed by CCP.
Only update location of guy logging on after warp. So initial warp until dropping out will not be recorded. Then when they log on again, they still warp to the same point.
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Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Wendre
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Posted - 2008.10.09 22:05:00 -
[85]
Mods said to use this thread instead of the other one, so reposting my thoughts here:
Originally by: Seth Ruin
However, I've yet to see one reasonable suggestion as to what CCP should do about it.
Tie it to security rating. An occasional logoff or interrupted connection will have a minor hit, repeated logoffski's ramps up the penalty and it starts cranking your rating down very quickly. This keeps the intended mechanic while punishing repeated abuse of such. Maybe throw in a cool-down timer that scales the same way, to prevent those edge cases where a player can't dig out of the security hole.
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Daergaar
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Posted - 2008.10.09 22:13:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
DC are s***, but you can try to petition them. If you get your ship back, then who cares, the killers still got the kill.
\
I didn't even bother petitioning. First of all, I doubt they would make a fuss about a new player who lost a 33 mil isk ship (I could care less about the 'prestige' the pirates get for getting a kill on a new player in shitty T1 unnamed modules also). Furthermore, who would believe me? I could have just as easily pulled my ethernet cable out of the back of my computer and blamed it on a disconnect, how would CCP know any different? I don't ever expect them to give a ship to me for a disconnect.
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