| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
   |
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:11:00 -
[1]
Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that people who download "pirated" software will either end up buying the game if they really like it (which is increasingly less common nowadays, most games are pure and unadulterated crap) or would have never bought the game anyway.
Meanwhile the draconic DRM measures (see the latest Spore DRM fiasco, and countless others in the past) make it increasingly difficult for legitimate customers to enjoy their product, while completely failing to protect "illegal copying" in the first place.
Personally, I believe that MMOs and companies like Stardock have it right, at least partially.
You know, like the good old days of shareware (sort of).
The idea is to distribute all software free, give people some completely free time to play it (in a limited fashion), and have or keep people paying only because they LOVE the game and want new content, not because they have no other option than pay to even try the game.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:11:00 -
[2]
Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that people who download "pirated" software will either end up buying the game if they really like it (which is increasingly less common nowadays, most games are pure and unadulterated crap) or would have never bought the game anyway.
Meanwhile the draconic DRM measures (see the latest Spore DRM fiasco, and countless others in the past) make it increasingly difficult for legitimate customers to enjoy their product, while completely failing to protect "illegal copying" in the first place.
Personally, I believe that MMOs and companies like Stardock have it right, at least partially.
You know, like the good old days of shareware (sort of).
The idea is to distribute all software free, give people some completely free time to play it (in a limited fashion), and have or keep people paying only because they LOVE the game and want new content, not because they have no other option than pay to even try the game.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
El Marchetto
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:16:00 -
[3]
Agree.
|
El Marchetto
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: El Marchetto on 08/10/2008 15:22:21
Agree.
Edit to clarify: have bought too many awful games over the years, however, when I do find what I regard as 'quality' software I'm extremely loyal to the producer, pay up, buy all the expansions etc, and generally keep the thing for years.
Simple message is, if its good, it will be bought, if its not, then no way should it be paid for.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:17:00 -
[5]
Somebody just recently said something to the extent of "don't pirate games because it kills the PC as a gaming platform".
Right... because Steam is a lousy company and Google would never dream of being even remotely interested in buying it, since PC gaming is dying (even if that rumour is false).
Software pirating isn't killing the PC as a gaming platform, it's ancient game developement companies who are stuck in a 20th century mentality.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:17:00 -
[6]
Somebody just recently said something to the extent of "don't pirate games because it kills the PC as a gaming platform".
Right... because Steam is a lousy company and Google would never dream of being even remotely interested in buying it, since PC gaming is dying (even if that rumour is false).
Software pirating isn't killing the PC as a gaming platform, it's ancient game developement companies who are stuck in a 20th century mentality.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:20:00 -
[7]
<-- A proud pirater of DRMed up games/programs.
I buy most of my non DRM games. Of course I mosly play subrscibtion games like EVE, or free open source games that I also tweak the code for.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Pwett on 08/10/2008 15:22:45
I think that the philosophy of the old Warez scene has changed.
I used to run a moderately large Warez BBS back in the day and back then it was more about just cracking the games, and all the old-school major figures were huge proponents of buying the games if you liked them.
We realized that we didn't want to **** in our own well, so to speak. Nowadays it got overrun by a much more 'radical' cracking generation who just want free free free stuff. While I was an unabashed 'pirate' back in the day, I owned every game I cracked.
Nowadays I just stay away from the scene completely because now it's just about unabashed theft.
/edit: Of course, this means that now I won't buy games with the Draconian DRM like Spore or Mass Effect whereas 5-10 years ago I would have happily bought those games because I would have cracked them within minutes.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:30:00 -
[9]
Well, bottom line is, DRM doesn't work anymore, and can't possibly work in the future.
Just look at games like Sins of a Solar Empire, absolutely no DRM at all, and buying the game automatically earned you an account to the matchmaking server.
Was it all over the place on the internet ? You bet.
Did more people play the game than people who bought the game ? Almost certainly.
Were Stardock, the developers/distributors/whatever happy about it ? HELL YEAH.
And why exactly is that ? Because their little game was awesome, and everybody would talk about it, having played it and loved it even if they didn't buy it... and a lot of them WOULD eventually buy it, while at the same time generating so much word-of-mouth publicity that would cost the company bundles. Overall, they made a lot more money like that.
Or, look at games like EVE.
Sure, you could try and reverse engineer the server, but who would you play with ?
And there would be no regular updates and such.
You can pay whenever you like to come back, if you don't like it you can quit for a while... but you will most likely be back eventually.
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
Piling on a lot of DRM on a substandard, overhyped, insane-developement-cost game isn't.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
Sensor Echo
Temple of the Blue Fish
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:54:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Akita T
Well, bottom line is, DRM doesn't work anymore, and can't possibly work in the future.
Just look at games like Sins of a Solar Empire, absolutely no DRM at all, and buying the game automatically earned you an account to the matchmaking server.
Was it all over the place on the internet ? You bet.
Did more people play the game than people who bought the game ? Almost certainly.
Were Stardock, the developers/distributors/whatever happy about it ? HELL YEAH.
And why exactly is that ? Because their little game was awesome, and everybody would talk about it, having played it and loved it even if they didn't buy it... and a lot of them WOULD eventually buy it, while at the same time generating so much word-of-mouth publicity that would cost the company bundles. Overall, they made a lot more money like that.
Or, look at games like EVE.
Sure, you could try and reverse engineer the server, but who would you play with ?
And there would be no regular updates and such.
You can pay whenever you like to come back, if you don't like it you can quit for a while... but you will most likely be back eventually.
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
Piling on a lot of DRM on a substandard, overhyped, insane-developement-cost game isn't.
It's an old argument with the whole DRM thing but one that I can't see why companies don't take note - it doesn't matter how much DRM you shove in an application, people will hack round it. It's what they do.
But, for the people (like me) who buy every single game I have (Well, now I do anyway ) it ****es me off when I can only install spore three times, EVER, when games refuse to work when they see perfectly legitamate pieces of sofware on my computer... GRRRRRR. sorry. I'm going to go now cos I'm all fired up!
------------------------------------
The EvE online general discussion forum - you will never find a more wretched hive of s****and villainy |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 15:57:00 -
[11]
I would have to say that the last few games ive bought for my computer in the past 3 years are:
Eve
Myst 4 Revelation
Myst 5 End of Ages
The rest of the games are bought for the 360. The PC only really outshines in very certain game types, MMO's, FPS (Lets be honest, the keyboard mouse is much better than any thumb joystick and you know it) and RTS, bascily any game where the keyboard provides a finer degree of control and is needed for input that cant typically be provided by the 10 or so keys of a typical game controler.
PC gaming is hardly dieing, its just that its struggling to find its place in a console controled world. Comments like from the guy who made unreal tournament are effectively epic whines (no pun intended) from developers who are looking for a scape goat to blame for less then expected sales.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
|
ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Zetsubou Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:01:00 -
[12]
It used to be the case that you avoided pirated software because you were afraid of having malware on it. Now it seems the pirated stuff is cleaner than the retail stuff.
|
Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:01:00 -
[13]
DRM doesn't work really. CD keys were great when people just copied the CDs using their burners, but now we're literally hacking open the data on those disks and editing the code to get around the key.
OR, we're figuring out how the key works, and creating a key generator that can make up keys that will work regardless.
Either they start employing some mental Military Grade data encryption on these games which require us to enter a 64/128 character long CD Key, they're gonna have people ripping games till the end of days.
I personally, buy my games. I considered buying spore till I heard it kinda sucked and the hype was all it was. I only ever install games once now. If i need more space, i buy a bigger/extra HDD. I literally cannot be bothered to uninstall. Obviously if data goes wrong you only have 3 chances but still.
That said, what did the Spore DRM do? Nothing. Nothing at all. It made people rip it off more, so we should just get a nice friendly CD key that is generated FOR that particular CD (not just based on an algorithm) and have done with that. Infinite installs, maybe a bit of online verification... but no ******ed 3 strikes system.
Or at least, if the customer owns the game CD, they can buy another 3 strikes for say, $5. Its a lot better than buying the game again thats for sure. I'd lay down $5 to play Mechwarrior 2 again, but i cant. (stupid ATI specific version.)
|
Jastra
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
It used to be the case that you avoided pirated software because you were afraid of having malware on it. Now it seems the pirated stuff is cleaner than the retail stuff.
lol, it's funny cos it's true
I buy 95% of the games I play, the other 5% I would never have bought but was curious about to play.
I tend to agree about most of them sucking ass, and that is the major problem, where is this decades Civ, or Deus Ex or Half Life.... very very few workd class games lately, and Spore was a huge dissapoitment, as was Bioshock, all fluff and little real substance...
I actually found myself routing around for a copy of Stars! the other day, to play on my all singing all dancing dual core .. that says something I think.
|
Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:11:00 -
[15]
games these days are utter rubbish imo. Thing is, singleplayer games are really kinda screwed. however mmo's as you say, aren't. needing a key to play will force you buy it.
If i like a game, I'll go buy it.
________________________
I'M POOR
|
Spenz
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:17:00 -
[16]
I pirate mainly to preview. If I love the game I buy it, if I hate it I uninstall and delete the iso (precious harddrive space is precious). I love pirating mainly because it has saved me many times from buying a shitty game.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
NeoShocker
Caldari
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 08/10/2008 16:40:56
Well, about gaming pirating, for the most part, I don't really care... But I strongly discourage piracy. Say I have Warcraft III, and I want to play with friends or people I know, but only to find out that those turds have pirated copies and I can't really play with them. That is just one example. I don't really like to pirate, especially when friends tell me to just get Vista OS off the net, but I bought the retail Vista Ultimate box anyway. (for those unaware, it contains dvds of both 32bit and 64bit OS installers for Vista ultimate)
Personally, I only pirated one game. Only thing I pirated was Call of Duty 4 (built my first PC) to test my graphics and fps and storyline. Deleted the game after 2 days. Only downside, is that I can't play online. Before CoD4, I never pirated a copy before. I bought CoD4 on steam when there was a 10 bux off deal 2-3 weeks after pirating.  (currently 50 bux)
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Not sure why some people don't like steam. Sure some may not like it, and have problems with it, but the features steam got is pretty awesome. For example:
- You can just download/redownload however many times you want (say reformatted much or multiple of computers?)
- You simply can back up steam folder, then install new steam client. Then you copy/paste the back up folder to that installed steam folder and its ready to play.
- Serial keys or CD/DVDs are non-existant/fixed to your account. There are game you need to input serial keys like CoD, but only ONCE. (copy/paste method, no idea about redownloading CoD4 and if it ask for serial key again)
- Whenever there is an new update, it will download and update automatically. No hassle at all.
-DRM and shits like that, is pretty non-existant in steam I believe :)
More companies are starting to sell their products through steam. Semi wish EA should do the same.
-----------------------------------
Peace through power! |
Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:39:00 -
[18]
DRM is a disgraceful mess. I've got a boxed copy of Colin McRae's Dirt that I've never played because it won't run. At all.
If I'd nicked a copy from the web I'm sure it would play just fine.
|
Falaricae
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 16:48:00 -
[19]
I don't have a problem that companies use some simple protection to prevent straight copying of games. I know it's almost effortless to actually pirate games, but as long as it doesn't interfere with legitime customers I don't care. There are two issues that I do care about.
First, what troubles me is that some publishers(I'm looking at you EA) have started to use DRM as a way to limit the customers from using the product they bought the way they want. I think the purpose of installation limits for example isn't to prevent piracy, but to kill the secondhand market for PC games. Lending, renting and selling a game after using it is now impossible, so every person has to get his own copy. This strategy includes selling incomplete games and selling the content as expansion packs later. They are ****ing people off just to sqeeze every last penny from you.
Second, some anti-pirate software seem to have gone into an armsrace against the pirates. Their primary goal seem to be to prevent all piracy and everything else comes second. I would guess most DRM developers fall in to this category. The problem is that it is a hopeless fight. No software is immune to being pirated. What is worse is the length that they go to cause problems for legitimate users. So what if the users DVD-drive can't read the disk, DRM installs malware on the users PC and causes conflicts with other programs. It doesn't matter since they are fighting ebil pirates and anyone who complains must also be a thieving pirate.
Now you have ****ed of customers, pirates that brag about not having to deal with any of that DRM crap and you didn't even prevent the pirating, huzzah. Doesn't help that every A+ title gets 90+ points in reviews these days and is written for teenagers who haven't played basicly that exact same game dozens of times already. There comes a point when you would rather play minesweeper than another FPS clone, let alone waste money on one.
They need to start putting buying customers needs first by stop treating them as criminals, selling complete games that work and don't install anything extra on the PC. If the DRM conflicts with those goals, it isn't ready to be put into the game. Even after that I'm not wasting my money on clones of games I already own, unless they actually have great plot or gameplay innovations. Those few games that do meet these criteria have my monetary support as long as they keep going.
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/10/2008 17:05:25
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
You just contradicted yourself within a single sentence.
Going online to "verify" something is DRM.
Get your facts straight.
Single player games are stupid anyway, they should be played exclusively on consoles, and preferrably have coop (which would make them multiplayer again).
And with multiplayer games, you don't need copy protection etc. Take CS:Source for example - useless without a valid key/account association, because every legit server checks if the credentials you provide are valid against the master server.
People need to realize that no matter how much copyprotection they pour into a singleplayer game it won't make more people buy it.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/10/2008 17:05:25
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures).
Shame Steam hasn't been cracked already 
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:25:00 -
[22]
I dont pirate games because, i dont know how to get them or crack them .
But most games these days are poor compared to the classics. Im not saying they are all bad, COD 4 was a little gem. Im hoping the standard of games improves, cos I doubt i can play 100's of halo clones and be happy
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures).
Shame Steam hasn't been cracked already
Consider Steam does it right and does not trust the client - and verification is serverside, you can't really crack it, unless you crack the steam servers (but gl on that lasting more than a couple minutes).
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NeoShocker
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Dude...that's called DRM. Slighly less severe DRM, but DRM nonetheless. You can't play Steam games without a continuous open net connection, or at least you couldn't back when the Steam DRM issue came up last.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ryysa
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
What's so futile about being able to play your single player games without needing to be connected to Steam 24/7 while playing them?
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:15:00 -
[26]
When we say "DRM" we actually mean "invasive/agressive hardware/software/whatever DRM to prevent a non-authorised copy of a game to play in offline mode".
Technically, Steam would qualify as DRM, but it's not very agressive nor invasive, and a big part of the fun in (some/most) Steam games is the online-only part, which trying to "crack" would be just about as useful as trying to "crack" EVE.
In other words, the key is to make people WANT to go online with their game, and other than that don't bother too much (just a minor inconvenience, at most, in case they want to bypass it - nothing harsh enough to cause OS problems).
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
|
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Corwain on 08/10/2008 18:19:28
How's this for invasive, Steam recently disabled a bunch of peoples games that they imported. In fact it was so bad that they couldn't even get a new local region copy working without calling Steam and getting them to fix it on their server. To quote someone from Slashdot:
Quote:
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I imagine it's reasonable for Valve to quick ****ing with products people paid good money for and breaking things via remote control just because they're greedy. So a product moved across a national border or an ocean or whatever -- big deal. Happens all the time and that's the nature of the modern world. The copy from India or Taiwan or whatever was legal and I'm sure Valve would prefer that it stay far, far away from the more profitable countries (so as to not illustrate the price disparity) but that's not reality.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: NeoShocker
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Dude...that's called DRM. Slighly less severe DRM, but DRM nonetheless. You can't play Steam games without a continuous open net connection, or at least you couldn't back when the Steam DRM issue came up last.
actually once you have logged into steam, you can play localy all you want in "offline mode"... and if the games multiplayer your well connected to the net so no biggie?
but yeah i had spore pre-ordered too.. read into drm, canceled it and pirated it off the interwebs a week before the launch here - plays fine :D
-----------------------------------------------
|
Ryysa
Paisti
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Ryysa
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
What's so futile about being able to play your single player games without needing to be connected to Steam 24/7 while playing them?
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:35:00 -
[30]
Pretty much the same reason why I don't play chess at a day-care.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |