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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:11:00 -
[1]
Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that people who download "pirated" software will either end up buying the game if they really like it (which is increasingly less common nowadays, most games are pure and unadulterated crap) or would have never bought the game anyway.
Meanwhile the draconic DRM measures (see the latest Spore DRM fiasco, and countless others in the past) make it increasingly difficult for legitimate customers to enjoy their product, while completely failing to protect "illegal copying" in the first place.
Personally, I believe that MMOs and companies like Stardock have it right, at least partially.
You know, like the good old days of shareware (sort of).
The idea is to distribute all software free, give people some completely free time to play it (in a limited fashion), and have or keep people paying only because they LOVE the game and want new content, not because they have no other option than pay to even try the game.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:11:00 -
[2]
Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that people who download "pirated" software will either end up buying the game if they really like it (which is increasingly less common nowadays, most games are pure and unadulterated crap) or would have never bought the game anyway.
Meanwhile the draconic DRM measures (see the latest Spore DRM fiasco, and countless others in the past) make it increasingly difficult for legitimate customers to enjoy their product, while completely failing to protect "illegal copying" in the first place.
Personally, I believe that MMOs and companies like Stardock have it right, at least partially.
You know, like the good old days of shareware (sort of).
The idea is to distribute all software free, give people some completely free time to play it (in a limited fashion), and have or keep people paying only because they LOVE the game and want new content, not because they have no other option than pay to even try the game.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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El Marchetto
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:16:00 -
[3]
Agree.
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El Marchetto
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: El Marchetto on 08/10/2008 15:22:21
Agree.
Edit to clarify: have bought too many awful games over the years, however, when I do find what I regard as 'quality' software I'm extremely loyal to the producer, pay up, buy all the expansions etc, and generally keep the thing for years.
Simple message is, if its good, it will be bought, if its not, then no way should it be paid for.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:17:00 -
[5]
Somebody just recently said something to the extent of "don't pirate games because it kills the PC as a gaming platform".
Right... because Steam is a lousy company and Google would never dream of being even remotely interested in buying it, since PC gaming is dying (even if that rumour is false).
Software pirating isn't killing the PC as a gaming platform, it's ancient game developement companies who are stuck in a 20th century mentality.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:17:00 -
[6]
Somebody just recently said something to the extent of "don't pirate games because it kills the PC as a gaming platform".
Right... because Steam is a lousy company and Google would never dream of being even remotely interested in buying it, since PC gaming is dying (even if that rumour is false).
Software pirating isn't killing the PC as a gaming platform, it's ancient game developement companies who are stuck in a 20th century mentality.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:20:00 -
[7]
<-- A proud pirater of DRMed up games/programs.
I buy most of my non DRM games. Of course I mosly play subrscibtion games like EVE, or free open source games that I also tweak the code for.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Pwett on 08/10/2008 15:22:45
I think that the philosophy of the old Warez scene has changed.
I used to run a moderately large Warez BBS back in the day and back then it was more about just cracking the games, and all the old-school major figures were huge proponents of buying the games if you liked them.
We realized that we didn't want to **** in our own well, so to speak. Nowadays it got overrun by a much more 'radical' cracking generation who just want free free free stuff. While I was an unabashed 'pirate' back in the day, I owned every game I cracked.
Nowadays I just stay away from the scene completely because now it's just about unabashed theft.
/edit: Of course, this means that now I won't buy games with the Draconian DRM like Spore or Mass Effect whereas 5-10 years ago I would have happily bought those games because I would have cracked them within minutes.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:30:00 -
[9]
Well, bottom line is, DRM doesn't work anymore, and can't possibly work in the future.
Just look at games like Sins of a Solar Empire, absolutely no DRM at all, and buying the game automatically earned you an account to the matchmaking server.
Was it all over the place on the internet ? You bet.
Did more people play the game than people who bought the game ? Almost certainly.
Were Stardock, the developers/distributors/whatever happy about it ? HELL YEAH.
And why exactly is that ? Because their little game was awesome, and everybody would talk about it, having played it and loved it even if they didn't buy it... and a lot of them WOULD eventually buy it, while at the same time generating so much word-of-mouth publicity that would cost the company bundles. Overall, they made a lot more money like that.
Or, look at games like EVE.
Sure, you could try and reverse engineer the server, but who would you play with ?
And there would be no regular updates and such.
You can pay whenever you like to come back, if you don't like it you can quit for a while... but you will most likely be back eventually.
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
Piling on a lot of DRM on a substandard, overhyped, insane-developement-cost game isn't.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Sensor Echo
Temple of the Blue Fish
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:54:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Akita T
Well, bottom line is, DRM doesn't work anymore, and can't possibly work in the future.
Just look at games like Sins of a Solar Empire, absolutely no DRM at all, and buying the game automatically earned you an account to the matchmaking server.
Was it all over the place on the internet ? You bet.
Did more people play the game than people who bought the game ? Almost certainly.
Were Stardock, the developers/distributors/whatever happy about it ? HELL YEAH.
And why exactly is that ? Because their little game was awesome, and everybody would talk about it, having played it and loved it even if they didn't buy it... and a lot of them WOULD eventually buy it, while at the same time generating so much word-of-mouth publicity that would cost the company bundles. Overall, they made a lot more money like that.
Or, look at games like EVE.
Sure, you could try and reverse engineer the server, but who would you play with ?
And there would be no regular updates and such.
You can pay whenever you like to come back, if you don't like it you can quit for a while... but you will most likely be back eventually.
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
Piling on a lot of DRM on a substandard, overhyped, insane-developement-cost game isn't.
It's an old argument with the whole DRM thing but one that I can't see why companies don't take note - it doesn't matter how much DRM you shove in an application, people will hack round it. It's what they do.
But, for the people (like me) who buy every single game I have (Well, now I do anyway ) it ****es me off when I can only install spore three times, EVER, when games refuse to work when they see perfectly legitamate pieces of sofware on my computer... GRRRRRR. sorry. I'm going to go now cos I'm all fired up!
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The EvE online general discussion forum - you will never find a more wretched hive of s****and villainy |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:57:00 -
[11]
I would have to say that the last few games ive bought for my computer in the past 3 years are:
Eve
Myst 4 Revelation
Myst 5 End of Ages
The rest of the games are bought for the 360. The PC only really outshines in very certain game types, MMO's, FPS (Lets be honest, the keyboard mouse is much better than any thumb joystick and you know it) and RTS, bascily any game where the keyboard provides a finer degree of control and is needed for input that cant typically be provided by the 10 or so keys of a typical game controler.
PC gaming is hardly dieing, its just that its struggling to find its place in a console controled world. Comments like from the guy who made unreal tournament are effectively epic whines (no pun intended) from developers who are looking for a scape goat to blame for less then expected sales.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:01:00 -
[12]
It used to be the case that you avoided pirated software because you were afraid of having malware on it. Now it seems the pirated stuff is cleaner than the retail stuff.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:01:00 -
[13]
DRM doesn't work really. CD keys were great when people just copied the CDs using their burners, but now we're literally hacking open the data on those disks and editing the code to get around the key.
OR, we're figuring out how the key works, and creating a key generator that can make up keys that will work regardless.
Either they start employing some mental Military Grade data encryption on these games which require us to enter a 64/128 character long CD Key, they're gonna have people ripping games till the end of days.
I personally, buy my games. I considered buying spore till I heard it kinda sucked and the hype was all it was. I only ever install games once now. If i need more space, i buy a bigger/extra HDD. I literally cannot be bothered to uninstall. Obviously if data goes wrong you only have 3 chances but still.
That said, what did the Spore DRM do? Nothing. Nothing at all. It made people rip it off more, so we should just get a nice friendly CD key that is generated FOR that particular CD (not just based on an algorithm) and have done with that. Infinite installs, maybe a bit of online verification... but no ******ed 3 strikes system.
Or at least, if the customer owns the game CD, they can buy another 3 strikes for say, $5. Its a lot better than buying the game again thats for sure. I'd lay down $5 to play Mechwarrior 2 again, but i cant. (stupid ATI specific version.)
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Jastra
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
It used to be the case that you avoided pirated software because you were afraid of having malware on it. Now it seems the pirated stuff is cleaner than the retail stuff.
lol, it's funny cos it's true
I buy 95% of the games I play, the other 5% I would never have bought but was curious about to play.
I tend to agree about most of them sucking ass, and that is the major problem, where is this decades Civ, or Deus Ex or Half Life.... very very few workd class games lately, and Spore was a huge dissapoitment, as was Bioshock, all fluff and little real substance...
I actually found myself routing around for a copy of Stars! the other day, to play on my all singing all dancing dual core .. that says something I think.
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:11:00 -
[15]
games these days are utter rubbish imo. Thing is, singleplayer games are really kinda screwed. however mmo's as you say, aren't. needing a key to play will force you buy it.
If i like a game, I'll go buy it.
________________________
I'M POOR
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Spenz
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:17:00 -
[16]
I pirate mainly to preview. If I love the game I buy it, if I hate it I uninstall and delete the iso (precious harddrive space is precious). I love pirating mainly because it has saved me many times from buying a shitty game.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
NeoShocker
Caldari
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 08/10/2008 16:40:56
Well, about gaming pirating, for the most part, I don't really care... But I strongly discourage piracy. Say I have Warcraft III, and I want to play with friends or people I know, but only to find out that those turds have pirated copies and I can't really play with them. That is just one example. I don't really like to pirate, especially when friends tell me to just get Vista OS off the net, but I bought the retail Vista Ultimate box anyway. (for those unaware, it contains dvds of both 32bit and 64bit OS installers for Vista ultimate)
Personally, I only pirated one game. Only thing I pirated was Call of Duty 4 (built my first PC) to test my graphics and fps and storyline. Deleted the game after 2 days. Only downside, is that I can't play online. Before CoD4, I never pirated a copy before. I bought CoD4 on steam when there was a 10 bux off deal 2-3 weeks after pirating.  (currently 50 bux)
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Not sure why some people don't like steam. Sure some may not like it, and have problems with it, but the features steam got is pretty awesome. For example:
- You can just download/redownload however many times you want (say reformatted much or multiple of computers?)
- You simply can back up steam folder, then install new steam client. Then you copy/paste the back up folder to that installed steam folder and its ready to play.
- Serial keys or CD/DVDs are non-existant/fixed to your account. There are game you need to input serial keys like CoD, but only ONCE. (copy/paste method, no idea about redownloading CoD4 and if it ask for serial key again)
- Whenever there is an new update, it will download and update automatically. No hassle at all.
-DRM and shits like that, is pretty non-existant in steam I believe :)
More companies are starting to sell their products through steam. Semi wish EA should do the same.
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Peace through power! |
Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:39:00 -
[18]
DRM is a disgraceful mess. I've got a boxed copy of Colin McRae's Dirt that I've never played because it won't run. At all.
If I'd nicked a copy from the web I'm sure it would play just fine.
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:48:00 -
[19]
I don't have a problem that companies use some simple protection to prevent straight copying of games. I know it's almost effortless to actually pirate games, but as long as it doesn't interfere with legitime customers I don't care. There are two issues that I do care about.
First, what troubles me is that some publishers(I'm looking at you EA) have started to use DRM as a way to limit the customers from using the product they bought the way they want. I think the purpose of installation limits for example isn't to prevent piracy, but to kill the secondhand market for PC games. Lending, renting and selling a game after using it is now impossible, so every person has to get his own copy. This strategy includes selling incomplete games and selling the content as expansion packs later. They are ****ing people off just to sqeeze every last penny from you.
Second, some anti-pirate software seem to have gone into an armsrace against the pirates. Their primary goal seem to be to prevent all piracy and everything else comes second. I would guess most DRM developers fall in to this category. The problem is that it is a hopeless fight. No software is immune to being pirated. What is worse is the length that they go to cause problems for legitimate users. So what if the users DVD-drive can't read the disk, DRM installs malware on the users PC and causes conflicts with other programs. It doesn't matter since they are fighting ebil pirates and anyone who complains must also be a thieving pirate.
Now you have ****ed of customers, pirates that brag about not having to deal with any of that DRM crap and you didn't even prevent the pirating, huzzah. Doesn't help that every A+ title gets 90+ points in reviews these days and is written for teenagers who haven't played basicly that exact same game dozens of times already. There comes a point when you would rather play minesweeper than another FPS clone, let alone waste money on one.
They need to start putting buying customers needs first by stop treating them as criminals, selling complete games that work and don't install anything extra on the PC. If the DRM conflicts with those goals, it isn't ready to be put into the game. Even after that I'm not wasting my money on clones of games I already own, unless they actually have great plot or gameplay innovations. Those few games that do meet these criteria have my monetary support as long as they keep going.
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Ryysa
Paisti
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/10/2008 17:05:25
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
You just contradicted yourself within a single sentence.
Going online to "verify" something is DRM.
Get your facts straight.
Single player games are stupid anyway, they should be played exclusively on consoles, and preferrably have coop (which would make them multiplayer again).
And with multiplayer games, you don't need copy protection etc. Take CS:Source for example - useless without a valid key/account association, because every legit server checks if the credentials you provide are valid against the master server.
People need to realize that no matter how much copyprotection they pour into a singleplayer game it won't make more people buy it.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/10/2008 17:05:25
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures).
Shame Steam hasn't been cracked already 
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:25:00 -
[22]
I dont pirate games because, i dont know how to get them or crack them .
But most games these days are poor compared to the classics. Im not saying they are all bad, COD 4 was a little gem. Im hoping the standard of games improves, cos I doubt i can play 100's of halo clones and be happy
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Ryysa
Paisti
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures).
Shame Steam hasn't been cracked already
Consider Steam does it right and does not trust the client - and verification is serverside, you can't really crack it, unless you crack the steam servers (but gl on that lasting more than a couple minutes).
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NeoShocker
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Dude...that's called DRM. Slighly less severe DRM, but DRM nonetheless. You can't play Steam games without a continuous open net connection, or at least you couldn't back when the Steam DRM issue came up last.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ryysa
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
What's so futile about being able to play your single player games without needing to be connected to Steam 24/7 while playing them?
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:15:00 -
[26]
When we say "DRM" we actually mean "invasive/agressive hardware/software/whatever DRM to prevent a non-authorised copy of a game to play in offline mode".
Technically, Steam would qualify as DRM, but it's not very agressive nor invasive, and a big part of the fun in (some/most) Steam games is the online-only part, which trying to "crack" would be just about as useful as trying to "crack" EVE.
In other words, the key is to make people WANT to go online with their game, and other than that don't bother too much (just a minor inconvenience, at most, in case they want to bypass it - nothing harsh enough to cause OS problems).
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Corwain on 08/10/2008 18:19:28
How's this for invasive, Steam recently disabled a bunch of peoples games that they imported. In fact it was so bad that they couldn't even get a new local region copy working without calling Steam and getting them to fix it on their server. To quote someone from Slashdot:
Quote:
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I imagine it's reasonable for Valve to quick ****ing with products people paid good money for and breaking things via remote control just because they're greedy. So a product moved across a national border or an ocean or whatever -- big deal. Happens all the time and that's the nature of the modern world. The copy from India or Taiwan or whatever was legal and I'm sure Valve would prefer that it stay far, far away from the more profitable countries (so as to not illustrate the price disparity) but that's not reality.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: NeoShocker
I personally think companies should go digital downloading and make it "fixed" to the account and not worry to at least have CD/DvDs in to play. Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
Like Steam for example for Valve. IMO, steam is the best thing ever, and I believe they have pretty good anti-piracy features.
Dude...that's called DRM. Slighly less severe DRM, but DRM nonetheless. You can't play Steam games without a continuous open net connection, or at least you couldn't back when the Steam DRM issue came up last.
actually once you have logged into steam, you can play localy all you want in "offline mode"... and if the games multiplayer your well connected to the net so no biggie?
but yeah i had spore pre-ordered too.. read into drm, canceled it and pirated it off the interwebs a week before the launch here - plays fine :D
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Ryysa
Paisti
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Ryysa
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
What's so futile about being able to play your single player games without needing to be connected to Steam 24/7 while playing them?
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
EW Guide - Music Downloader - My Music |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:35:00 -
[30]
Pretty much the same reason why I don't play chess at a day-care.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:04:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ryysa
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
Guess you're a relatively new gamer then. I remember a time before very many computer games were multiplayer, although since Pong can be played Multiplayer and is considered by many to be the first video game I guess I can't say multiplayer didn't exist at all until recently.
To answer your question I play multiplayer and singleplayer games for different reasons but I very much enjoy both types of game. Thus just because you wouldn't want to play games without having a net connection and therefore don't care about the Steam DRM doesn't mean that its not a valid way to play. So the offline cracks do indeed have a point to many people out there.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Thuranni
B and D
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Ryysa
There are hacks to run any torrented steam game locally, but you still can't go online with it, making it a futile excercise.
What's so futile about being able to play your single player games without needing to be connected to Steam 24/7 while playing them?
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
The storyline. The single player experience (which vastly differs from the multiplayer one, most of the time. Have you played COD 4 single player? If not, you are missing out). Sometimes, you just dont want to have to interact with stupid people, etc etc etc etc.
But honestly, go play the COD 4 single player campaign and then tell me that single player is obsolete.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:13:00 -
[33]
Just because you can count the games that have a decent singleplayer lately on a single hand's fingers doesn't mean there's no point in singleplayer games.
As a side-note, how come there were no big "Quest" games lately ? You know, the kind Lucasart was famous for ?
And by "lately", I mean this millennium... 
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Thelying dutchman
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:18:00 -
[34]
anyone know how I can pirate eve BTW?
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:26:00 -
[35]
Find a station in low sec with a L4Q20 agent.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Thelying dutchman
anyone know how I can pirate eve BTW?
Buy a parrot, an eyepatch and a ticket to Fanfest.
Apply eyepatch, place parrot on shoulder, go to the Fanfest and shout "YARRRR!!!"
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
Just because you can count the games that have a decent singleplayer lately on a single hand's fingers doesn't mean there's no point in singleplayer games.
As a side-note, how come there were no big "Quest" games lately ? You know, the kind Lucasart was famous for ?
And by "lately", I mean this millennium...
You mean like Hugo and Roger Wilco?
And it seems to me nowadays companies aren't really making games anymore. They're creating playgrounds for lots of people to visit. Then the people come up with their own games to play with each other in the playground.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Thelying dutchman
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Akita T
Just because you can count the games that have a decent singleplayer lately on a single hand's fingers doesn't mean there's no point in singleplayer games.
As a side-note, how come there were no big "Quest" games lately ? You know, the kind Lucasart was famous for ?
And by "lately", I mean this millennium...
You mean like Hugo and Roger Wilco?
And it seems to me nowadays companies aren't really making games anymore. They're creating playgrounds for lots of people to visit. Then the people come up with their own games to play with each other in the playground.
2 words:
just realised, 2 words are actually 2 words
coincidence..... or is it??????
SPACE MONKEYS!!!!!!!!!
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.08 19:55:00 -
[39]
In short they should encourage people to buy the games instead of pirating them by
a. making them cheaper
b. making the games easier to install without compromises
Prevention is often useless... Because people will crack it, I do support basic strategies for prevention so it doesn't get too damn easy. Ridiculous stuff like starforce and drm, things that will compromise the frigging OS of the system are a no no... And why would you force this SHIT upon your legal customers when it just gets ripped out of the pirate versions...
I think that companies should start realizing that drm is NOT a solution... It drives me mad. I do not see why it would work, because it DOES NOT WORK Spore was THE example for that.
And really, make a game work, I pirated BF2 a few years back, liked the game, so I bought it so I could do online etc... Only the legal version did not work... it simply did not work, it crashed and shit... and I had specially reinstalled windows so the pirated version would not compromise the legal game... I got it working after a lot of bullshit and customer support and telephone rage, where I had to manually update a file, but the pirate version actually worked the first time I installed, imagine that.
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Florio
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 19:57:00 -
[40]
imho pirating music or games is theft, illegal, and should be fined heavily.
i have no respect for thieves: if you can't get what you want by legal means then you fail in life.
it's a bit like the question "is theft/logoffs in eve right?". at the end of the day just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do. depends on your character though. i've left two corps on principle due to the weak ceos stealing assets for instance.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 20:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Corwain
You mean like Hugo and Roger Wilco?
Yeah... the things Sierra and Lucasart pushed out heavily in the last 15 years of the past millennium.
Things like the Space Quest series (Sierra also did Leisure Suit Larry, King's Quest and Police Quest, but the latter two are not really favourites of mine) and the plethora of Lucasart titles - Loom, the Monkey Island series, the Indiana Jones series, Full Throttle, The Dig, Grim Fandango... and so many more.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Marie Duvolle
Toxic Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.08 20:17:00 -
[42]
If a game is good I'll buy it anyway. If it's crap then I guess the makers hoped we'd be tricked into buying something that wasn't worth the money, in which case I have no (moral) problems with just playing the pirated version.
Some games I'll buy without "checking them first". Stuff like the HL series, GTA and some others. I mostly play MMO's anyway.
Don't stir the hornet's nest |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:18:00 -
[43]
Sounds like you need to take a look at indie developers as I belive those are indie devs speacialty. In fact the infamous Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation did some of those type games I believe.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.10.08 20:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Florio
it's a bit like the question "is theft/logoffs in eve right?".
Yeah, I stopped reading right there. You think stealing ingame items or logging off in combat is an IRL crime...lol
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
Dark Trinity Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, bottom line is, DRM doesn't work anymore, and can't possibly work in the future.
Just look at games like Sins of a Solar Empire, absolutely no DRM at all, and buying the game automatically earned you an account to the matchmaking server.
Was it all over the place on the internet ? You bet.
Did more people play the game than people who bought the game ? Almost certainly.
Were Stardock, the developers/distributors/whatever happy about it ? HELL YEAH.
And why exactly is that ? Because their little game was awesome, and everybody would talk about it, having played it and loved it even if they didn't buy it... and a lot of them WOULD eventually buy it, while at the same time generating so much word-of-mouth publicity that would cost the company bundles. Overall, they made a lot more money like that.
Or, look at games like EVE.
Sure, you could try and reverse engineer the server, but who would you play with ?
And there would be no regular updates and such.
You can pay whenever you like to come back, if you don't like it you can quit for a while... but you will most likely be back eventually.
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
Piling on a lot of DRM on a substandard, overhyped, insane-developement-cost game isn't.
Funnly enuff a game I bought without trying it...Have no intention of buying any game with install restrictions though.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
NeoShocker
Caldari
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/10/2008 17:05:25
Originally by: NeoShocker
Plus games to be online to verify (extra anti-piracy measures). No DRM and shits like those.
You just contradicted yourself within a single sentence.
Going online to "verify" something is DRM.
Get your facts straight.
People need to realize that no matter how much copyprotection they pour into a singleplayer game it won't make more people buy it.
You're right, but at least they're not programs that needed to be installed with or without you knowing, and a program that you can't remove that DRM in spore game unless you reformat.
-----------------------------------
Peace through power! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Corwain
Sounds like you need to take a look at indie developers as I belive those are indie devs speacialty. In fact the infamous Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation did some of those type games I believe.
Played them both before he was an "internet celeb" already. Not particularly long nor hard games (not that good-looking nor with a particularly good story either), but better than nothing, I suppose. A bit of really dark humour in them too.
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
Dark Trinity Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:45:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Florio
imho pirating music or games is theft, illegal, and should be fined heavily.
i have no respect for thieves: if you can't get what you want by legal means then you fail in life.
it's a bit like the question "is theft/logoffs in eve right?". at the end of the day just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do. depends on your character though. i've left two corps on principle due to the weak ceos stealing assets for instance.
Actually its IP infrigment a civil matter not a criminal one. For it to be theft you have to derpive them of it...pirating games does not do this.
But having to sit through antipricay adverts i can't skip on for instance DVDs makes me more likley to pirate them not less. Sitting though 30 fecking minutes of shit adverts makes me less likley to go to the pictures.
Basicly the more they do dumbassed shit to try and stop it the more likley they are to cause it.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
Obsidian Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 21:35:00 -
[49]
When people say, "oh, the games of today aren't as good as the classics..."
It's really just nostalgia talking.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 21:40:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dirtee Girl on 08/10/2008 21:41:06
personally i dont go for pirate games tbh games like master of orion - starcraft - warcraft - battlefield - homeworld - these games were epic and i bought them all including many others . when it come to pirating game i look at it as ghetto . call me elitist but if you cant afford 30-50bucks for a game maybe you should get a job instead wasting your time on games tbh
but i will confess to some instances of music piracy but i will pay for music downloads unless im looking for something hard to find or exobitantly priced at which point i set my sails for pirate bay
*
* |
nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
Dark Trinity Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 21:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
Edited by: Dirtee Girl on 08/10/2008 21:41:06
personally i dont go for pirate games tbh games like master of orion - starcraft - warcraft - battlefield - homeworld - these games were epic and i bought them all including many others . when it come to pirating game i look at it as ghetto . call me elitist but if you cant afford 30-50bucks for a game maybe you should get a job instead wasting your time on games tbh
but i will confess to some instances of music piracy but i will pay for music downloads unless im looking for something hard to find or exobitantly priced at which point i set my sails for pirate bay
Hypocrite much?
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 21:49:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
When people say, "oh, the games of today aren't as good as the classics..."
It's really just nostalgia talking.
There is no modern strategy game that can compete with MAX (mechanized assault and exploration) in its field. pity my dosbox doesnt want to play with other people :\
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Akita T
yawn
I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post
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P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:00:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ryysa
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
Because sometimes you just don't want to put up with other people?
I know, I'm late, but I just finished the first stalker game. I haven't even tried the MP yet. Sure, Coop would have been nice, but meh. Also, Dwarf fortress.
I mean, that wasn't hard, was it?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.08 22:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
When people say, "oh, the games of today aren't as good as the classics..."
It's really just nostalgia talking.
No, it's really not JUST nostalgia talking. Nostalgia might be a significant part of it, but it's certainly not all.
I look at games nowadays and all I see is one big bucket of casual games (the likes of Peggle and tons of Flash games), a huge chunk of FPSs that have nothing really inovative in them (with the odd exception every now and then) other than increasingly shiny graphics that require a supercomputer to run on full detail, a sizeable portion of formulaic and/or clickfest fantasy/RPG/whatever games with a story rivaling B-rated movie quality and the occasional RTS that's usually YetAnotherSequel and suffers from the same affliction the FPS games do (m-m-monster computer).
Name ONE half-decent/noteworthy game that came out in the past three years that is what we used to call a "Quest" or (in other genres) any game that surpasses the likes of Master of Orion 2, Alpha Centauri or Homeworld, a game that's not just a convoluted sequel capitalizing on the predecesor's former glory (see Heroes of Might and Magic 4 and 5, Civilisation 4 and so on - although Civ4 is almost decent, it doesn't really have all that much going for it over the previous ones gameplay-wise).
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Akita T
Name ONE half-decent/noteworthy game that came out in the past three years that is what we used to call a "Quest" or (in other genres) any game that surpasses the likes of Master of Orion 2, Alpha Centauri or Homeworld, a game that's not just a convoluted sequel capitalizing on the predecesor's former glory (see Heroes of Might and Magic 4 and 5, Civilisation 4 and so on - although Civ4 is almost decent, it doesn't really have all that much going for it over the previous ones gameplay-wise).
I just mentioned stalker  Yes, it's yet another FPS with some fluff... but the creepy feeling you get in the underground labs on your first go at the game... priceless.
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Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:08:00 -
[56]
no not really i just will pay for what i can have but if no reasonable pay service can be found i will download the song
*
* |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:10:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/10/2008 22:13:52
I think this is probably the time I should mention I never finished the single-player (from start to finish, no cheats, no nothing) any Quake nor any Half-Life, nor just about any other FPS that was ever created.
I usually like to look at somebody else play it or, if such a person is unavailable, if the game allows it, play it with "infinite ammo, invulnerable, and if there's a noclip/fly cheatcode, bring it on too".
P.S. The multiplayer though, oh yeah... can't count how much time I wasted in my highschool/college years going rocket launcher / X-bow / sniper rifle / other-stabby-or-shooty-or-exploday-implement all over some poor guy
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:21:00 -
[58]
Edited by: P''uck on 08/10/2008 22:22:43
I dunno, I finished HL1 on hard when it came out because everybody was talking about it, and i wanted to see what the hype was all about. It was alright, especially the squad AI of the marines, I had my fun. Nothing REALLY great, tho.
The main thing about HL was... it gave us the engine for all those wonderful mods out there.
but stalker on the other hand... its a mixture of burntime/morrowind/FPS and the book called "roadside picnic". (which i suggest you read, only 120 pages or so)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: P'uck
book called "roadside picnic" which i suggest you read
If you mean the Strugatsky brothers book, you're only about 15 years late with that suggestion
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:50:00 -
[60]
well, then go ahead and play stalker already! only difference, its chernobyl and not the aliens.
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 23:27:00 -
[61]
Personally I'm a "try" before you buy man myself. DVDs and Games, if I like it I will buy it.
I was looking into buying Crysis: Warhead (as I have Crysis), which uses sony's SecurRom DRM (Which is a rootkit). It seems that it prevents programs like Process Explorer from running, and the 5 activations deal is not what I want. I use my PC as a multiplatform, which includes swapping out components when needed, and hot-swappable HDD's. I don't really want to take the chance that switching a small part of my system will cause me to lose an activation. In one day, I could easily brick my game. I also have to 'reformat' every few weeks because of the specialised tools I use.
And whatever EA says, about releasing a program for deactivating an install, I don't believe them. They know that their customer service is horrendous and expensive. Why throw away that cash cow!
By the way, its taken me almost three, THREE months from installing BF2142 to being able to play a whole game online without getting disconnect/kicked errors because of the crap. EA customer support repeatedly told me to go to a support page where half of the buttons and graphics never showed up, and the knowledge base was a fountain of well, not knowledge.
Turns out, that the program to record the encoded cdkey to the registry couldn't even get that right and was inserting a duplicate part of the code.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
Obsidian Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 23:35:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Atomos Darksun on 08/10/2008 23:36:59
You can buy Crysis Warhead off of steam, btw. Unless it still includes the rootkit.
And I will cherish the day when someone brings these DRM ****sticks to court for these privacy invading rootkits. With half of the DRM technology out there the companies could get access to any of your information they wanted to.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 00:20:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
if you cant afford 30-50bucks for a game maybe you should get a job instead wasting your time on games tbh
I just picked up a pristine copy of Suikoden II for $110 
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 01:36:00 -
[64]
I never understood why one would pay full price for a game anyway. I mean, it's really simple... you wait 2-6 months, and get your game as low as 5 bucks, sometimes. Well okay, sometimes it can take over a year.
But what are we? Fashion victims that run to the store as soon as some new crap hits the shelves? I think when you pay full price for a new game, you pay "idiocy tax". They just try to sell as many copies as possible at this horribly overpriced rate. But what do I know, could be totally wrong, too.
But in the end I get the best of both worlds: prices that border on piracy and the good feeling of "hey I pay for my games".
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.09 01:45:00 -
[65]
If the game isnt in the shops: ei GAME.
Dont expect me to pay for it, for instance, i never paid for Freelancer, Sudden Strike Forever, and Diblo II, Because they re just too old to look and pay for them in 2008.
Quote:
There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 01:56:00 -
[66]
for completeness sake, that's not true for diablo II.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 02:11:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Mr Friendly on 09/10/2008 02:11:55
I reserve the right to try all games for free before I buy them. And buy them I do, provided they aren't crap. If they're crap, they get deleted from my computer and I tell everyone who asks that they're crap. I simply won't pay money to be disappointed. However, I happily pay for games worth playing.
PC sales might be down, but that's more to do with shit games than it is piracy (I doubt 15 year old Johnny who lives in his mum's basement would be able to afford more than one or two of those 50 pirated games he found on the 'net). $50 for a piece of garbage? LOL. Is there a bridge I can buy as well?
I dl'd Crysis... I played it for 30 minutes then deleted it. It was shit.
I dl'd Bioshock. 2 hours later, I went and bought it. It was great.
Same goes for movies: I've previewed 1000's of movies over the past few years, but only fully watched a couple hundred. My purchased movie collection is ~250 dvd's. Notice a correlation?
If studios put out less shit, they might see more sales. Right now, they expect to pump out crap and expect me to buy it no matter the quality. **** that.
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DFox31
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 08:34:00 -
[68]
I just don't get how these game company's are charging these prices for pure hype, not releasing demo's until the games have been out for a long ass time hoping you buy it before you play, then not to mention the fact that most pirated games run better then store bought. For instance a friend with ArmA was able to load up and get into a server before I was even at the main menu.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 08:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Akita T
So, yeah, THAT direction is the future.
I sincerely hope not. Fighting lag, hoping the internet connection isn't going to fail at a crucial moment and forcing gamers to have an internet connection just to play is't a way forward, it's a huge step backward.
NOTHING will prevent piracy, not even making all games online. Hackers will simply create their own servers to allow users to play for free. Don't say anything about costs, there are no profits in uploading cracked software to the internet either and now home broadband is faster, creating a server is childsplay on a home computer.
What the software companies need to do is cut the anti-piracy methods, reduce costs and release software at a reasonable price. I recently bought a full price game at 17 UKP and it's just been released, it's called The Witcher. It's an excellent game. Nothing but a standard serial number and it has sold like wildfire because it's nice and cheap. It's about time other software companies followed their example. The main reason for people pirating software now is that software houses have priced themselves out of the average market. Nobody wants to pay 40 to 50 bucks for a game and nobody wants a piece of garbage for that price so 'try before you buy' is a must. At less than half that price, people wouldn't be so concerned if it was utter rubbish so they are more likely to buy it instead of wasting bandwidth.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 08:55:00 -
[70]
I generally don't pirate games and will go to some length to aquire games I want (took me 2-3 months of searching to get a EU copy of Advent Rising for PC for instance), but sometimes it's the only way of getting it (some games never get released here, although that is rare) and at other times it's just to old to find anymore.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 -
[71]
Steal this !
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Victor Vision
Amarr
Central Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:19:00 -
[72]
The copy protection for games and other software is bullcrap.
I buy the stuff I use, and the measures they take to prevent pirating are kicking me in the behind.
Example 1) "DTM racing" (from codemasters - old title)
I bought that game a few years back and installed it on my PC.
Sometime later a friend of mine who does music, gave a concert.
I was the one taking the pictures.
When I tried to import the pictures to my PC via my SanDisc reader it did not work, and I ended up loosing the photos.
Turned out, this was due to some copy protection by codemasters that disabled virtual drives (on purpose!). This copy protection software saw my SanDisc drive as a virtual drive and caused it to malfunction.
I thought about sueing Codemasters for the irrepairable loss of the concert photos, but eventually I just deinstalled the game and threw it away.
Needless to say that codemasters products will never be bought by me again.
2) Windows XP "genuine advantage"
Yes, I know it is not a game, but worth a mention.
The XP genuine advantage patch checks on your computer for installed MS products, it checks harddrive ID, IP adress etc. and then sends this information to MS. Once installed, this patch can neither be disabled, nor disinstalled. It is spyware, but neccessary to recieve new updates.
I hope all software I need will sometime be available on Linux.
If this ever happens, these companies screwing with customers who bought their software will get the boot from me. Permanently.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE HistoryWiki |
Brigsby5987
Caldari
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:01:00 -
[73]
pirating is only wrong when you can go to the store or online to buy the software with no issues, in a reasonable amount of time.
_______________________________________
Sig? where. There's no sig here. |
nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
Dark Trinity Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 18:31:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Brigsby5987
pirating is only wrong when you can go to the store or online to buy the software with no issues, in a reasonable amount of time.
Well thst me in clear for the last bit of it i did...don't sell it for download in the UK...and had a order in foir 3 months for a hard copy then nver got round to sending me...bastards.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Taedrin
Gallente
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:16:00 -
[75]
My thoughts on software piracy?
Software piracy is never legal, and is always unethical UNLESS: the company who owns the software does not care. Also potentially, once the company stops distributing the software, and the software is "abandoned".
However, I also believe that EULAs and DRMs are unethical, as it violates the ethical principals of Veracity, Non Maleficence, Fidelity.
Some explanation is due:
Veracity - The duty to tell the truth, and not be deceptive. DRMs, by their very nature, do not reveal to the client what they are doing to their computer. Furthermore, EULAs have been written BY lawyers, FOR lawyers. Even if the client actually reads the EULA, they are written in such an obfuscated (and long winded) way, that the client can't understand it. Or in other words, EULAs hide the truth by being hard to understand.
Non Maleficence - Duty to do no harm, not to interfere with legitimate interests of others and respect their autonomy. Many forms of DRMs have caused harm to the client's computers.
Fidelity - Duty to be faithful to the client's reasonable expectations; keep one's promises to clients. This is the big one. When someone goes to buy a game, they have a simple expectation: they pay money, they buy the game, they are able to play the game without restriction. In the case of Spore, the DRM prevents you from installing the game more than 3 times. The client doesn't know this because they don't read the EULA (and to be honest, can't be expected to read such legalese garbage).
ALSO, EULAs can't be read until AFTER you purchase the game.
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:26:00 -
[76]
DRM could be a useful and valuable tool if it wasn't used in an overzealous and excessive way.
At present it's an intrusive, buggy, useless and restrictive piece of shit that needs stamping out by a consumer boycott until it's removed and rethought.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Kyrall
A Few Killers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Victor Vision
The XP genuine advantage patch checks on your computer for installed MS products, it checks harddrive ID, IP adress etc. and then sends this information to MS. Once installed, this patch can neither be disabled, nor disinstalled. It is spyware, but neccessary to recieve new updates.
Just for the record, WGA can be disabled and uninstalled. As you say however, it is necessary for new updates.
Interestingly, I know of two computers both with XP installed from the same dodgy disc. One is left without updates due to WGA, the other auto-updates with no problems whatsoever. Go figure.
_____ Originally by: Ryysa,Pwett
Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
Pretty much the same reason why I don't play chess at a day-care.
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Victor Vision
Amarr
Central Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:28:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kyrall
Originally by: Victor Vision
The XP genuine advantage patch checks on your computer for installed MS products, it checks harddrive ID, IP adress etc. and then sends this information to MS. Once installed, this patch can neither be disabled, nor disinstalled. It is spyware, but neccessary to recieve new updates.
Just for the record, WGA can be disabled and uninstalled. As you say however, it is necessary for new updates.
Interestingly, I know of two computers both with XP installed from the same dodgy disc. One is left without updates due to WGA, the other auto-updates with no problems whatsoever. Go figure.
MS WGA can be disabled and uninstalled you say?
This surprises me. I read the EULA that comes up before installing it, and in the EULA it is explicitly stated that WGA can not be uninstalled or disabled once patched into the operating system.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE HistoryWiki |
Kyrall
A Few Killers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:01:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Victor Vision
MS WGA can be disabled and uninstalled you say?
This surprises me. I read the EULA that comes up before installing it, and in the EULA it is explicitly stated that WGA can not be uninstalled or disabled once patched into the operating system.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=get+rid+of+wga
_____ Originally by: Ryysa,Pwett
Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
Pretty much the same reason why I don't play chess at a day-care.
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Victor Vision
Amarr
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 15/10/2008 11:42:57
Originally by: Kyrall
Originally by: Victor Vision
MS WGA can be disabled and uninstalled you say?
This surprises me. I read the EULA that comes up before installing it, and in the EULA it is explicitly stated that WGA can not be uninstalled or disabled once patched into the operating system.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=get+rid+of+wga
Thanks for the info Kyrall.
The sites that are linked there are giving hacks as a solution.
(One official MS method, but that is only for pre-release WGA)
I do not want to hack windows - dont forget, I paid cash for it.
So my version passes any and all WGA checks.
What annoys me, is that MS spies on their paying customers.
I would have no problem with a windows validation check - that notifies me about sending data to MS and gives an accept/deny option - whenever I want to download windows updates or optional software.
But WGA works in the background. I have no ways of knowing when it sends data to MS. Also I have no ways of knowing which data it sends. MS says it is "only" harddrive ID and information on all MS programs installed on the PC.
Mistrust works two ways. If MS does not trust me, why in the world should I trust them? If I do not trust MS, then it is neccesary to have a built in way into WGA for me, the customer, to switch it on/off whenever i want. Also WGA needs to include a tool to show which data EXACTLY it is sending to MS. For all I know it may be sending my secret blueprints of a perpetuum mobile to MS
All of this should not come in the form of a hack or third pirty software. I paid for the windows license - and at the time of buying did NOT agree to be spied on!
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Ryysa
Paisti
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Posted - 2008.10.15 12:54:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Ryysa
Dunno, but I don't give a damn about Single Player games most of the time. Why would you play Single Player when you have todays internet connectivity at your disposal?
Guess you're a relatively new gamer then. I remember a time before very many computer games were multiplayer, although since Pong can be played Multiplayer and is considered by many to be the first video game I guess I can't say multiplayer didn't exist at all until recently.
Actually I played games since about 1990-1991. I don't have time anymore, but multiplayer seemed like a natural evolution to me, then MMORPG's came.
I still think that consoles are better suited for singleplayer games - most of the better titles are on them atm. Co-op is also a good idea, that way you avoid the hordes of tards online and can still play with a friend or such.
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