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Crayathan Gallente Alpha Industries	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:38:00 - [4261] Originally by: DJ Geist (Sarcasm) you know, 14 day trial accounts should be banned as well. Its basically pre-subscription ghost training. The vast majority of eve characters probably started with these scandalous, time-begging, freeloading accounts. Its pathetic really, I don't even understand why free trials exist. Why the hell would a BUSINESS give out something for FREE? Can you imagine? Its like a big juicey worm on a hook
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:38:00 - [4262] Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 08:43:56 Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.) In year 2006: Build 27121 to 27912 addresses REVELATIONS Patch Notes Miscellaneous: "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change." Plus in forum > CCP employee said, we will never change this in TQ So, another lie
BLACK D0G Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:42:00 - [4263] fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc. The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please.
Crayathan Gallente Alpha Industries	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:44:00 - [4264] Originally by: BLACK D0G fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc. The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please. Totally agree, but i think you need a little buffer on it as sometimes i don't realise mine have expired for 2 days so maybe after 7 days all market/rp stuff and what ever else you had going on is canceled or suspended?
Braenca	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:49:00 - [4265] I can't beleive no-one has said this yet... NEGATIVE GHOST-TRAINER, THE PATTERN IS FULL!
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:49:00 - [4266] Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 08:50:51 Originally by: BLACK D0G fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc. The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please. Totally agree. Plus If should be CCP make lag balancing, we need AFK kicker after 30 minutes. Cloak in AFK make lag. We need time counter against for AFK players.
Flinchey Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:56:00 - [4267] Originally by: N'tek alar Originally by: Flinchey Originally by: N'tek alar Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer 140 pages .... doesnt that show something? Yes, It shows that the eve community is full of whiny, ***y cheapskates who're throwing a temper tantrum because they aren't getting their free toys NOW!!! It also shows that people think that repeating the same 4-5 arguments over and over and over a couple thousand times makes them more valid. Ooooooh, Did i mention it shows that the eve community is full of whiny, *y cheapskates? and if you didn't also notice there's at least a few hundred cancelled subscriptions it also shows that apparently the MAJORITY of the eve players are whiny ***y cheapskates repeating the same arguments by hundreds of different people, yes, definitely makes them more valid im sorry but, N'tek alar, you, are the minority here. Also, a few hundred accounts is not a majority of a few hundred thousand. Did you notice how the majority have NOT posted? Oh and... The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. Hey look! The earth is flat! sooooo you're a business running on a subscription based system you suddenly lose a few hundred (if not 1000+, i really haven't been keeping track) accounts on said subscription... you're going to see this loss of thousands of dollars per month of revenue and just shrug it off? or are you going to try your hardest to get that revenue back? not to mention lots of people dont even know about it (not everyone reads the news feeds you know) i brought it up in guild chat and pretty much everyone who wasn't afk flipped out "what wtf are you talking about what? no! thats just stupid"
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:59:00 - [4268] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Ecco Storm I've yet to hear one solid REASON other than "we want it, it isn't fair" from anyone in this crowd. Then you're not listening. The reason why it's has been a good idea for them to have all these years is because it creates and incentive for players who have 'quit' to reactivate their accounts. Running a corp I lost count of the number of people who I saw quit and come back a few months later because they wondered what it would be like with the skill that finished while they were away. I really doubt any of them would have returned without it. I object not because it will affect any of my training (I've had 3 accounts active for over 4 years now). But because I think it will negatively affect the number of players in the game, and CCP's revenue. I also object because the 'reasons' given were a steaming pile of bullshit. If they just came out and said they wanted more money, or even raised the subscription price, I would not have a problem with that. I also haven't had any problem with ANY of the game play changes, which have generally been responsive to player feedback. The handling of this issue has been a complete farce. Money? This is not about money for me, I really couldn't give a crap if the subscription was twice what it is. Are you really believing what you are saying here? The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4). It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know. The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit. The ghost training that was allowed until recently was being overused by a number of people not because they couldn't play on a regural or semi-regural basis, but because they wanted to have a fully grown and advanced character with minimal costs. That is what forced CCP to disable it. So I guess if you and the rest want to vent at someone, you better start looking for the ones who overused this so called feature (while CCP devs have multiple times in the past said it was a bug that was left untouched as a gift of sorts) and forced CCP to revoke it. You are the ones to blame and not CCP. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:07:00 - [4269] Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 09:09:12 See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/
Crayathan Gallente Alpha Industries	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:10:00 - [4270] Edited by: Crayathan on 17/10/2008 09:11:19 Originally by: Cutesmile See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming. http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-week.png Your logic is flawed, as it went up for the 2 days before, so it could be natural up's and downs. Better to use a long term graph http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-month.png

Flinchey Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:11:00 - [4271] Originally by: Cutesmile Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 09:09:12 See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/ can't view that picture.
Nate D Hell's Rejects	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:19:00 - [4272] Originally by: Crayathan Edited by: Crayathan on 17/10/2008 09:11:19 Originally by: Cutesmile See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming. http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-week.png Your logic is flawed, as it went up for the 2 days before, so it could be natural up's and downs. Better to use a long term graph http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-month.png There's a problem with Cold Front's status tracker. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility shows no significant change in population.
Doomsday	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:24:00 - [4273] Edited by: Doomsday on 17/10/2008 09:25:20 I don't care about the changes. Its CCP's world and they create the rules. We will see, if the changes have positive effect for CCP's wallet. But what i see is, that a player taking a break from EVE will not come back. At the moment, when you take an EVE break, you switch on a long training so when you come back, the time not playing eve is not wasted completely. Now its different. Your char stays at the training point you left the game - just like every other MMO. But here is the difference. In an other MMO you are able to compensate this (maybe)6 month. Not in equipment, but training. A skilled MMOler will power level his 6 month behind char in a reasonable amount of time. In EVE this does not work. If you have stayed off training you are missing you complete training time and there is no way to compensate this (like leveling 7x24 in other games). So i think for many people there is no reason to come back to EVE after a break. An example. Your are off for RL issues. You can't play for the next 1 or 2 month. you switch on a long skill training in the hope you come back. At the time the skill expires, you notice that you need to stay off longer. So now buy a GTC or do a 1 month subscription and switch skill training (money for CCP). You can repeat that in the hope to come back and have a skilled char. Now this option has gone. So you can keep the subscription, never come back or accept that you have lost a lot of training time with no way to compensate. Lets see, how the community accepts his. BTW: I think the real money makers are now our farmers. I think many will try to buy ISK to keep all there accounts running.
Najenna Minmatar Caldari Deep Space Ventures Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:40:00 - [4274] Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash.. They want to take from us... We take from them. Keep Crashing the server till the damn thing breaks. C.C.P. needs to realise they need us more than we need them. I have seen quite a few games coming out that will blow Eve away and I really hate sayig that seeing that I have spent 6 years playing eve faithfully but taking this feature out is just stupid and very wrong. Now I know there are people that are all for the change and will tell me where the door is and say can they have my stuff. Well hell no its my stuff and it will all stay in my hanger and die with the server. my 2 cents. CRASH THE SERVER.......CRASH THE SERVER!!!!!
Gara Al'Malik	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:46:00 - [4275] Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash.. I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager cough I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up.
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:51:00 - [4276] Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash.. I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager cough I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up. Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
BIind	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:52:00 - [4277] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4). Don't tell me what my incentive for returning is or isn't. Quote: It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know. What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:53:00 - [4278] Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash.. I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager cough I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up. damn I thought I was gonna sneak my salvager err um... faction fitted BS there! Stormwind In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:58:00 - [4279] Edited by: DeODokktor on 17/10/2008 09:59:12 Originally by: BIind Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know. What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity. LOL, yea... People fighting the cause with non-valid arguments ;P.... They get so much sphel from companys giving false spin on everything that they feel they need to take part ;P
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:59:00 - [4280] Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 10:00:38 Originally by: BIind Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4). Don't tell me what my incentive for returning is or isn't. Quote: It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know. What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity. Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity Lotro Usually it takes 6 to 12 months of inactivity to get a character deleted Diablo-2 characters time out after 3 months of inactivity. So, some MMORPGs delete a character after a period of inactivity. And... LOL, yea... People fighting the cause with non-valid arguments ;P.... YOU!!!! :DDDD

Gara Al'Malik	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:01:00 - [4281] Originally by: Cutesmile Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;) Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance.
Nate D Hell's Rejects	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:06:00 - [4282] Edited by: Nate D on 17/10/2008 10:13:38 Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity. <snip> Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip> For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the WORST MANAGED games in the industry.
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:07:00 - [4283] Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Originally by: Cutesmile Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;) Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance. Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.]
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:08:00 - [4284] Originally by: Cutesmile Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Originally by: Cutesmile Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;) Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance. Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.] Salvaging IS work. In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
Gara Al'Malik	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:09:00 - [4285] Originally by: Cutesmile Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Originally by: Cutesmile Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;) Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance. Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.] I didn't ask for anyones stuff in my post. Did you read it?
Cutesmile Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:14:00 - [4286] Originally by: Nate D Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity. <snip> Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip> For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst MANAGED games in the industry. Where is your point ? You said no MMO where deleting character. YOU WRONG. And now what happen ? Your answer .....That's MMO worts thing blabla. And why you delete the Lord of the rings online ? LOTRO worst MMO ? Or not MMO for you because there is delete inactive accounts ? You stop the rambling if you do not have truth
Flinchey Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:15:00 - [4287] Edited by: Flinchey on 17/10/2008 10:15:01 haHA in all this MMO talk i've just realized out what other mmo does that is almost EXACTLY like ghost training RESTED EXP you dont play for a few weeks, BAM! 2 levels at double the standard experience rate THAT is a good incentive to start playing those games again "hey i haven't played in a while.. i can level up really quickly (say half an hour instead of sometimes a couple of hours) and see what new content there is.. be a bit better in pvp" etc. etc. take away ghost training and what is there?
Nate D Hell's Rejects	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:16:00 - [4288] Originally by: Cutesmile Originally by: Nate D Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity. <snip> Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip> For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst MANAGED games in the industry. Where is your point ? You said no MMO where deleting character. YOU WRONG. And now what happen ? Your answer .....That's MMO worts thing blabla. And why you delete the Lord of the rings online ? LOTRO worst MMO ? Or not MMO for you because there is delete inactive accounts ? You stop the rambling if you do not have truth Whoa there... read more carefully next time. I was not the OP of that rant. I was just adding my two isk...
Arakn1s Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:20:00 - [4289] Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly. you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo. Pay my sub
Brother Welcome Amarr Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:25:00 - [4290] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4). It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know. The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit. I believe this argument is faulty. When you quit, you quit given the state of the game at that time. Existing character state, existing friends, those are already counted when you make your decision. So while I would agree with you if you want to say that friends keep you playing longer, and I would even agree that if your character were deleted that would guarantee you didn't return, it is faulty to argue that anything about the state of the game when you quit will motivate you to return. So yes, exciting new features might bring you back, and changes to your character (ghost-skilling), are important. To argue otherwise is facile. -vk



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