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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:52:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 04:53:59
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
I took a fairly long hiatus from the game (at least it was to me) And knowing that when I came back, I would have a nice long skill out of the way encouraged me to come back. Without that extra incentive, I may not have come back at all.
I feel that many of the older players agree which leads to...
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman Edited by: INF Wonderwoman on 14/10/2008 04:46:39
Originally by: Zabaticus It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.
Zabaticus
I wonder how long people who are against this have been playing. I'm sorry but if you have only been playing for a year or less you have no idea. When you hit 3 to 4 years and get to the FEW very long skills (carrier 5, capitol 5, ....) you would have loved being able to take advantage of this. To pay 30 USD just to get carrier 5.... its stupid.
PS. Yes this is an alt, because my main is "Ghost Training" carrier 5 right now, lucky for me I only have 9 days left. Had I not gotten this skill I would not be coming back.
A good point. It would be interesting to know the in-game age of the people supporting the removal of 'ghost training' and the people who are against the removal.
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:53:00 -
[872]
Originally by: MetBuyer This thread is so long that I don't even think that my comment will be read by CCP. But here goes anyway.
I think from a making money perspective CCP hasn't done enough research on the habits of their customers.
The training on unsubscribed accounts has likely been increasing, but how many of those accounts are the 3rd or 4th account of one of their existing customers.
In the last year there's been a significant upshoot in subscriptions. I have a feeling it's partly due to the community getting the impression that running multiple accounts is normal and needed.
The main account will probably stay subscribed the whole time, but the 3rd or 4th account probably trains skills while unsubscribed. People's computers often can't easily run 4 accounts at the same time. They're getting these extra accounts mainly for the skill training.
Most likely many people will cut back on the accounts they have and newer players will decide not to get that 3rd or 4th account.
I guess also the increase amount of training while the account subscribed can also be attributed partly to the GTC prices and the real world economy.
I've read many threads about people putting their accounts into deactive training because of the GTC ISK prices that they cannot afford anymore.
The people suffering economically probably are just unsubscribing and putting on long skills because they hope to start playing again when they have more money.
My friend, the problem is not Ghost Training itself. The problem is the way it was presented to the players. CCP treated us like five year old monkeys who have no idea what we're doing. We should not have a problem with the chnage, looking at Icelands financial situation. What we should have a problem with is the next thing. Will CCP disable training when you log off and do they really think we're this stupid? Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:54:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Not sure how well that would work. Has far as I know CCP doesn't have a physical presence in the US so there's nothing to go after. CCP could just laugh at the court's ruling. The US government won't block access to CCP's servers. I guess the US could put pressure on them through the WTO but that's a really far fetched and unrealistic scenario plus a complete waste of time and money.
I'm afraid all you can do is write/call CCP and if you're still not happy don't play.
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:54:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Tizoca *snort* My copy of Windows XP occasionally commits an error and tosses up a "blue screen of death", wiping out everything I was working on. The manual mentions the blue screen, and the fact that unsaved work will be lost. Does that make losing your work a "feature", as it is on the list of things the software does? Internet Explorer has loopholes that allow unscrupulous people to hijack my computer; several help files mention this. Are the security loopholes a "feature"? Can you come up with a criticism that doesn't depend on being literal to the point of idiocy?
The Blue screen itself is the feature actually. It allows you to (at least try to) troubleshoot a problem. Losing data is obviously NOT a feature--not to mention you are not gauranteed to lose your data. In the case of Internet Explorer: the plugin architecture thta allows something like Flash player is the feature. However a buffer overflow attack in Flash player obviously is not. I'm also sure that your 'several help files' also mention the risks of said security loopholes. This is similar to CCP's API feature.
Compared to CCP I see them promoting skill training on expired accounts but I don't see them warning anyone of using said 'bug' in the last *5* years..
Even putting that aside, where is your outrage the obvious 'bugs' of "ghost RP gaining," "ghost selling," and/or "ghost CEOing"?
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Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:55:00 -
[875]
To publicize it as a feature than remove it as a bug falls under false advertisement.
I . Bait and Switch
Bait and switch advertising is the offering of certain products or services at bargain prices with no intention of selling them as advertised. The real purpose of the bait and switch scheme is to lure consumers into a business establishment with attractive offers and then sell them other more expensive products. To accomplish this, bait and switch sellers disparage the quality of the advertised "specials" or belittle the guarantees, availability of service, or the credit terms related to the product or services offered. In some cases the advertised specials won't even be available for sale or salespersons will refuse to show them to interested consumers. Some bait and switch sellers have been known to go as far as to penalize salespersons who actually sell the advertised specials to consumers. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Mar Drakar
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:56:00 -
[876]
lol, this is pathetic, now all you will see is chars getting moved to active account, at least I will do so with my inventing ***** and cyno dork... no point in another account now.... -- Make your life worth dying. CEO LDK |
Maddog Smee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:57:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Erimisha Even putting that aside, where is your outrage the obvious 'bugs' of "ghost RP gaining," "ghost selling," and/or "ghost CEOing"?
Yes, those need to be addressed the ghost RP gain is even more damaging.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:57:00 -
[878]
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:58:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
Can I use their moons until they get back?
Quit banning me. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I believe it was in-game age that was mentioned. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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Greckor Monmouth
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[881]
minus 3 to 4 accounts for ccp, great job...
your getting as bad as SOE, please make yourself better
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I thought it was age of toon ingame, not RL age... maybe I was wrong
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Typical American solution. Sue everything.
Quit banning me. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[884]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I thought it was age of toon ingame, not RL age... maybe I was wrong
No, you read it correctly, he did not. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[885]
Hmm good thing I solled one character allready as I think a lot of players will sell their alts now, which will have prices faling rapidly. I Just bought a second offer of 2 account last month, guess that character will have to be sold. I for one is not going to pay for 3 acounts when I can max use 2 anyway. I did ghosth train with 2 acounts before, but as most skills i train take around 20 days then it is clear that you made MORE money with 2 acounts that was on 30 days then off in 20 days, than you would have with just 1 account.
This is BULL**** and I feel ashamed that I have just had a friend come onboard, as I used that "bug" as a selling point and it was the final desicive factor that he accepted. oh well better stop him before his trial runs out
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Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[886]
Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
If I knew for a fact that there was no benefit from having multiple accounts with multiple characters training out of subscription, ccp wouldn't get any money at all from me since I wouldn't subscribe in the first place.
They don't lose what they never had...see?
Same thing with game piracy. Not that I practise such a thing, but if I were to download...say some EA drivel...EA wouldn't be getting my money for that game anyway since I couldn't stomach the thought of giving them cash.
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Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[888]
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 05:03:39
Originally by: Liranan
Age?
I think he's referring to age as in how long they've been playing.
But I'm 30 as well
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[889]
Edited by: Alexander Ronay on 14/10/2008 05:02:47
Originally by: Liranan
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:02:00 -
[890]
I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:03:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Exxonett To publicize it as a feature than remove it as a bug falls under false advertisement.
I . Bait and Switch
Listen, I've been annoyed at this all day long and have talked at length to others about it. However, don't be stupid. One sentence that CCP has all over in various forms is [paraphrasing] "Online play subject to change".
This change (and most importantly how it was delivered/handled) is ALOT of things but the only thing "criminal" here is stupidity like yours with all sorts of 100% empty legal threats.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:03:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
It doesn't work that way... or if it does its the dumbest thing I've ever heard and CCP have themselves to blame.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:04:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
yarrr
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:04:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I think we have our answer. It's a phrase, that has 2 words in it. It starts with an "F" and ends with a "you."
CCP's silence speaks volumes.
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Zabaticus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[896]
Wow the whining is awesome. If this is such a horrendous decision (I think it's great) then unsubscribe - right now - don't take it - go. Right now - do it - you don't have to take it - show them who's boss. We need the chaff removed so the wheat can grow anyway.
I'll be polite and say Be Well but definitely not Well met.
Zabaticus
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[897]
I can't wait to log in tomorrow morning and read their official retraction of this decision
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay Edited by: Alexander Ronay on 14/10/2008 05:02:47
Originally by: Liranan
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
It does not work like that, game time is used in the above mentioned increments. A 30GTC will last only 30 days, you can't break it up.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I think we have our answer. It's a phrase, that has 2 words in it. It starts with an "F" and ends with a "you."
CCP's silence speaks volumes.
Or to quote a famous saying.
"**** you pay me"
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[900]
Edited by: Exxonett on 14/10/2008 05:06:53
Originally by: PsychoBones II
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Typical American solution. Sue everything.
My intention is not to sue but to display the fact that they can be sued. If they fix their lies and stop trying to rob people this really isn't an issue then. However if they choose to continue on this chosen path there seem to be enough people to make it costly.I have never sued anyone as of this point. I have however, have used it as a threat to get my point across. When you mention their wallets they listen to what you have to say just a little bit more. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
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