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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Angel Lightbringer Caldari Dark Evolution Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 - [2461] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature? Used to be in Player Guide, but it now *HAS BEEN EDITED* Read it HERE as a cache from Google. Third paragraph in 'How to train skills' section. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). I happened to use this feature once, when I had to disable my account for a full year, two years ago. I don't have alts nor do I use/abuse this feature but I am sincerely disapointed by CCP's management on this change of heart. Remove a feature, fine, change how to grind money, fine, but don't disrespect your own staff by pretending a feature was indeed an unintended bug. Who's looking like an a$$ now? Certainly not the coders... -Angel
ZeroGasam	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 - [2462] I still cant find this page on info portal.. is it still hidden?
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 - [2463] Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Gedhay Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature? it was removed from the player guid few hours ago Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. Dont be a ****; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku**
Soma Khan	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 - [2464] Originally by: oilio Originally by: Soma Khan Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread. Hmm... troll. You don't seem to understand what the issue is here. The issue of ghost-training is secondary. The issue is dropping a significant (and negative) change in the service onto people, and initially making out that it's for "balance" and "fairness" - which is patently garbage - followed by censorship of the forums when customers complain that the service is now not as good as it was. If you don't think that CUSTOMERS should complain when the service is degraded, then fair enough - seems stupid to me, but whatever... ...except you probably do understand, but enjoy trolling to see if you can get a rise out of the angry customers who are posting here. Yeah, God forbid you actually have to pay money for services rendered. You don't like the service? Leave. Your access to these forums is a privilege, NOT a right. This privilege can be revoked by CCP solely at their discretion, as is any kind of censorship they deem prudent. You use this privilege to complain, and I do also to tell you what I think about your reasoning and reaction. Until CCP use their right to lock this thread. What exactly do you find wrong here? ___
James Marshalll Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 - [2465] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. =Fail. as has been pointed out before: If CCP didn't want people to use the feature, they wouldn't have put it in a new user guide. There is a huge difference between a production or personal use computer guide telling you what happens when a problem occurs, and how to send that information to the company, then a game studio putting ingame bugs they don't want people using in a new player guide. but gg's.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:44:00 - [2466] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. I'm so starting a threadnought at microsoft.com if they ever nerf bsod. Are you with me? Come on people! Frigate racing is fast and fun!
INF Wonderwoman	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:44:00 - [2467] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. =Fail. You have been told this before... The BSD is a feature of Windows, getting helpful information on why the OS crashed is a good thing. (unlike mac) The failure itself is not documented because its not intended.
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 - [2468] Originally by: Huan Hunglong Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:41:05 Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Baihuigau Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature? im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there. Well I'm pretty sure that nobody has been able to find it in any eve advertisements or on their eve box manual. It WAS on this page: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp But CCP have conveniently changed that page over night. It used to say: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive But as you can see, its now been changed. edit: Screenshot found: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg I have no problem with CCP making this change... I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!! You really think your customers are ****ed dont you CCP? I personally think customers like you are **ed; its a documented feature, yes, but an UNINTENDED ONE. Its a side effect of how skill training was coded, I rememeber its discussion in beta and the devs were like 'its fine for now'. Its documented because documentation needs to be accurate, and so to not document it would be silly! None of this makes it intended. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku**
Lothendra Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 - [2469] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. =Fail. Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it. Would you rather it wiped "hahaha" all over your hard drive instead, when it crashes?
Cragen o'mass Caldari Fallen Nova	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 - [2470] it is me. i am the reason they are getting rid of Ghost training. for the first time ever i let my account lapse to train a long skill on the 11th of october. i feel i must say sorry to the whole eve communtiy for my terrible crime i will try my hardest to make amends. regards O'mass --------------------------------------- I Think everyone @ tiscali plays WoW
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:46:00 - [2471] Originally by: Huan Hunglong I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!! Yes. It was a documented unintentional feature. Which is exactly what t0rfifrans said: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills... in all effect, this was a bug." There's just no lie there.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:46:00 - [2472] Originally by: Cragen o'mass it is me. i am the reason they are getting rid of Ghost training. for the first time ever i let my account lapse to train a long skill on the 11th of october. i feel i must say sorry to the whole eve communtiy for my terrible crime i will try my hardest to make amends. regards O'mass LYNCH HIM!!! Frigate racing is fast and fun!
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:47:00 - [2473] Originally by: James Marshalll Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. =Fail. as has been pointed out before: If CCP didn't want people to use the feature, they wouldn't have put it in a new user guide. There is a huge difference between a production or personal use computer guide telling you what happens when a problem occurs, and how to send that information to the company, then a game studio putting ingame bugs they don't want people using in a new player guide. but gg's. Thats ****ed. Keeping it out of the guide would simply have been unfair to those who didnt know about it. The guide used to cover making instajumps and jetcan mining too and neither of those was intended. UNINTENDED FEATURE. I say again; all those angry about this are lying to themselves. Really, all they are angry about is a hit to the wallet, they just pretend its righteous indignation at CCP wording (which, as we are all sophisticated to understand, is completely irrelevent). Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku**
Carsidava Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 - [2474] Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan. Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash. If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts? Why are only skill points being hit? Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Hun Jakuza Naughty By Nature	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 - [2475] Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 14/10/2008 19:53:03 Originally by: Lallante Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Gedhay Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature? it was removed from the player guid few hours ago Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. Dont be a ******; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work. Oh i think u are that BoB players who used tongue for CCP. Mass tongue slap = whine ? Anyway, was ghostraining for CCP a feature, and CCP used this words for advertisement always.
James Marshalll Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 - [2476] Originally by: Lallante Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Gedhay Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature? it was removed from the player guid few hours ago Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. Dont be a ******; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work. I have been involved in the production, development and saw to launch 15 different triple A titles in my tenor in the game industry from 01-05 for a large Japanese based game publisher.. I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide if you do not want your player base using those bugs. using ideology from a side of software development that has PRODUCTION RELATED uses (Operating systems) to try and justify your argument that new users guides are not "features" but just how the game works is flawed. They are intended for 2 different audiences and serve two different purposes.
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 - [2477] Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan. Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash. If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts? Why are only skill points being hit? Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
Huan Hunglong Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 - [2478] Originally by: Lallante Thats ******ed. Keeping it out of the guide would simply have been unfair to those who didnt know about it You mean like the 1001 POS features which were undocumented for years?
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 - [2479] Originally by: Lothendra Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it. Fine then. Crashes in which the BSoD appears, and in which you lose all your work are documented in the Windows guide. So by your logic the crashes which result in the BSoD and the loss of your data are advertised as a feature of Windows.
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 - [2480] Originally by: Soma Khan What exactly do you find wrong here? Well, I posted disatisfaction towards CCP - NOT YOU - and you responded with this: Originally by: Soma Khan Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread. See that? That was your initial response. Looks like a trolling insult, doesn't it?
Amarr Hyena	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 - [2481] see you edited the player guide CCP. dont forget your forum posts to, wouldent want any evidence left over that it was once indeed intended. getting on my bloody nerves and fast. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive.
BIind	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 - [2482] Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 19:51:12 Originally by: Lallante I personally think customers like you are ******ed; its a documented feature, yes, but an UNINTENDED ONE. Its a side effect of how skill training was coded, I rememeber its discussion in beta and the devs were like 'its fine for now'. Semantics. It was possible for 5 years, it was convenient, it was an incentive to resub even without abusing it for alt farming and now it's being removed and people are angry. Get over yourselves already and let people respond to the dev post without stupid ass "can i have your stuff" and "lol your poor".
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 - [2483] Originally by: Lallante Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan. Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash. If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts? Why are only skill points being hit? Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response. That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
Lag	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 - [2484] Lallante, I am a web applications developer by profession and deal with database issues ALL of the time. It is easy to take the time that the skill started training and calculate how much time is left (so long as you have the formulas that affect skill training times... which CCP does.) The only thing the database needs is a start time and character attribute information. After that, its all calculations. In no circumstance should the "update character information" query be called in absolute intervals when dealing with the load generated by Eve's populace. With the immense load the database receives, character information would be calculated when you change skills, a skill finishes, and/or fired by some other trigger.
St Claus	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 - [2485] Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 19:53:20 Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Hun Jakuza Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature. Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature. As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows. =Fail. Well, actually BSOD is error screen (feature). It is not a bug, it shown to user because bug caused critical error. So, who actually failed? edit: way too slow...
Souine	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 - [2486] Originally by: But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug. Yeah you shoved us in a box with the GTC Rubbish...
Velda Chulai	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 - [2487] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Lothendra Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it. Fine then. Crashes in which the BSoD appears, and in which you lose all your work are documented in the Windows guide. So by your logic the crashes which result in the BSoD and the loss of your data are advertised as a feature of Windows. There are many POS features that were undocumented for years. POS bowling, hitting targets on the other side of POS's, and I'm sure remote doomsdays weren't formally documented.
Orion Moonstar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 - [2488] Ghost poastin in a post ghostin thread http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:52:00 - [2489] Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever. What difference does it make? They dont like the effect its having on the game now, so they are changing it. Personally, I remember beta when this started happening. Its a side effect of the coding, not the intention, they were just happy with it until now. Grow the ** up people Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku**
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:52:00 - [2490] Originally by: James Marshalll I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide... No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.

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