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Exxonett
Caldari
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:18:00 -
[1]
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription.
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.
Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Yea you are money grubbing thieves.
I have had up to 8 accounts feeding you cash and as the economy died so did my spending cash so I have already had to thin it out. You say this is unfair to people who work their chars? I still use and grind all of my accounts and to save money I let them expire to finish skills to save a few of my bucks. You rotten ingrates guarantee that all people with active accounts don't just log on to train and never undock I will say ok. until then Keep looking for more reasons to charge more and come up with flimsy reasons that are ******ed at best. I have 3 active accounts active at all times and you want more? You are finding new and improved ways to rip people off and jacked up time periods for gtcs. There is no question you are after the money nothing more.
http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg
Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:34:00 -
[2]
I really wonder how many total threads were created due to this ...... unpleasantness. Seriously, I don't think this is something that the eve community will get over, and I really don't think that CCP has seen the last of this.. Wait until others come back to find their accounts still not skilled up in a month.... way to go CCP for killing their accounts. Seriously, if I had inactive accounts and I came back... I wouldn't play your game, just out of spite, and in fact I'd trash you to all the blog sites - which in fact is being done now.... Good luck with all of that..
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Exxonett
Caldari
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[3]
I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg
Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
islador
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[4]
Normally I would fight against this. BUT CCP is starting to risk it's very survival. This game relies on hardcore players. Hardcore players often times are smart and will not take much shit. CCP is risking it's survival by raising GTCs, and caning ghost training. I say this because they were 2 things that have been stable throughout the game and have helped make EVE what it is. CCP is currently upgrading server hardware. This means there will be loads of old hardware either re-routed to other portions of the game or tossed. Take 1, ONE of those old opteron blades, and code it to be the ghost training server. Voila, nothing lost from the EVE cluster that isn't of less then negligable value that will be paid for by the every other payments from those ghost trainers. Money in the door is still money in the door, and ghost trainers are using up WAY less resources then everyone else and you manage to turn a profit from the average player, so you'll be making a profit from ghost trainers as well.
As for GTCs, you blabbed about how it was a money choice. You guys made money selling them at 14.95 per month, now you've raised them to 34.95 for 2 months. Thats an extra $5, not much right? Wrong. Many EVE players are not financially well of, even more have families, and still more have wives that won't tollerate a nearly $20 a month US game. Money in the door is still money in the door.
Be patient like all the players who train lvl 5 skills, training corporate titan is a rank 55 lvl 5 skill. Every time you chase a player out of EVE, you're losing money and gaining nothing but a bad rep. Don't become the next Blizzard, you will regret it CCP. You will regret it and die as the hardcore players, the backbone of EVE, leave, ruining your game forever.
I support CCP learning from it's mistakes, the Carrier nerf was a bad idea, so you looked elsewhere, making GTCs cost more and killing ghost training is a bad idea, look elsewhere, we know you can do it.
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HuntedMaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:16:00 -
[5]
GREED...
CCP you should be ashamed of yourself....i have been playing for about 6 months now...and this will probably be enough for me to tell you to stick your game...
I play EVERYDAY , for hours on end....grinding my character through what is at most times ...a GRIND.
And according to you ..my newly started alt doesnt deserve to train 5 days of skill training off account, while i play and GRIND my original character everyday..
I think your greed may have just overtaken your respect for the people who support your game day in and day out...
Theres many ways you could have handled your situation with people training extra long skills in ''ghost'' mode...why not limit the days to 30 ....why not do lots of things...
And dont try to tell me its not just about money...cause you certaintly dont care what happens to mine...
I hope you get your money....because you may need it with the accounts you might just lose..
Shame on you...
Yours sincerly hacked off.
Huntedmaster and my now ripped of alt Regoroth
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NereSky
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[6]
CCP will do what they want and will always apply what they deem as important to them, whatever is voted for or not will only ever get approval if they want it to,
As a Gm said to me once 'its our game, we can do what we want end of the day'
Same can be said for players in a way - only interested in themselves and what directly affects them and nothing else, so whats the point in raising a topic with this issue? none unfortunately
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:19:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: NereSky
As a Gm said to me once 'its our game, we can do what we want end of the day'
Alright,
Let's play with an analogy a bit.
CCP runs a lemonade stand. They make EvE lemonade. I like their lemonade, it's sour and bitter, but still more refreshing than the other guy's lemonade. The next day I see CCP ****ing into the lemonade jar and when confronted about it they tell you, "its our lemonade, we can do what we want end of the day." I then take my money and either buy the other guy's lemonade or go to the store and buy myself something else.
"It's our game, deal with it" is no way to sell a game.
_
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NereSky
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:01:00 -
[8]
I know that and i know the playerbase knows that but unfortunately CCP never will - either learn to accept it or dont
CCP's strengh will in customer service will never return - ive accepted that now i just play the game so i can keep in contact with friends ive made and damn CCP
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Zathrus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:57:00 -
[9]
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
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Abuta Beki
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:52:00 -
[10]
It's a bugfix. Live with it. It doesn't take something away that you payed for. It takes something away for which you did not pay. How many other games keep feeding inactive accounts? A lot of games don't even keep them for reactivation for long.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/10/2008 11:57:10
Originally by: Exxonett
I have had up to 8 accounts feeding you cash and as the economy died so did my spending cash so I have already had to thin it out.
Then keep some of the accounts inactive. What's the problem?
Why do you think you should have some sort of "right" to have 8 accounts training skills with paying three subscriptions?
Originally by: Exxonett
I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
LOL. You're NOT being a customer when you don't pay for your accounts, so you have 0 rights to anything. 
What makes you think that you've got some rights while not paying a dime?
I guess threatning people with lawsuits because you cannot have free stuff is the US way.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:19:00 -
[12]
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Quizzicality
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I guess threatning people with lawsuits because you cannot have free stuff is the US way.
Well as a US citizen I assure you not all of us are so damn petty 
I find it amazing that you're getting so insanely bent out of shape out of something so small. You're exploiting the game and you complain when CCP removes said exploit? lawl. Pathetic.
Quote:
insanity:
1: a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia)
2: such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility
3 a: extreme folly or unreasonableness b: something utterly foolish or unreasonable
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[14]
What part of "Subscription Service" did you not get?
You don't pay... you don't get service.
How can you possibly hope to even sue or take legal action when the judge would laugh you out of the court over a freaking game you didn't want to pay for but still wish to play for nothing.
Get a life.... sheesh.
PS: Id say GB2WOW but you have to PAY for that too... : O P
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:49:00 -
[15]
I think what people don't understand is that it gives Eve a uniqueness that was not found in other games. The military man, the family man, the very busy school student, can pause the game and pick up without feeling like the eve world passed them by. That's something other games cannot provide, and I think that's why others are thinking of trying out other space games that are in the works - at least they don't nerf features that are actually useful to them. CCP made this game something that for 5 years people saw as something that fit their lifestyle - it may not have been the best game out there but the skill training motivated them to mission run, to pirate, and to make the eve-verse what it is today. CCP in effect made it so that you pay for their bandwidth and overhead costs while you use them - not while you don't use them. I think that's the biggest issue - people are busy and don't play eve when they don't have the time. Sure some people may take advantage of the system, but it costs CCP nearly nothing to keep them on board, and eventually those people pay out. Now with this setup, I think a lot of people are refusing to submit to CCP's demands. I know I'm not going to be happy about it - and I don't even use this feature. That feature is security for me. It states if I get bored, I can leave and when I come back, I don't have to start where I left off. People feel betrayed. People see this as CCP being unloyal to them. When there's a breech of loyalty, people lose respect and loyalty for those who don't stay loyal. I really do believe this change could very well kill eve online, and if the majority of people leave eve... there's no point for me being on eve either...
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Sanadis
Gallente
Sphere Industries
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sanadis
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
Easy for you to say, you're not the one who's only got 15 mill SP and can only use T2 small hybrids.
_
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sanadis
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
Thank you.. I was starting to think I was losing my my mind with all the whining.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:34:00 -
[19]
I don't get why people feel they have a right to get all of the in-game benefits for (using the OP as an example) eight accounts if they are only paying for three of them at any time.
* If I go to a restaurant with seven friends and pay for three meals, should I expect the restaurant to feed all eight of us?
* If I subscribe to eight magazines, then stop paying for five of them, should I expect the publisher to keep sending all eight since I'm such a good customer?
* If I subscribe to a newspaper, and cancel it, how long should I expect them to keep delivering it?
C'mon, folks, it's a game that we pay to play, and CCP is in the business of making making by entertaining us. Players began to more and more blatantly take advantage of the training system, so they finally decided they had to revise it. How many other premium online games not only let you improve your character while not actually playing, but allow you to do so while not subscribing to the game? I ackowledge that you got used the way they had been doing it, but I challenge you to head over to WOW, subscribe, unsubscribe, and check back in a month to see how many levels you've gained. Heck, stay subscribed but don't play and see how many levels you gain...
In any case, I'm not sure what your proposal is, but if it involves you getting an advantage by training multiple accounts without even the slight mitigating factor of paying for multiple accounts, then you can consider me,
/unsigned
--
Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Sanadis
Gallente
Sphere Industries
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.15 15:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Sanadis
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
Easy for you to say, you're not the one who's only got 15 mill SP and can only use T2 small hybrids.
Well, if that is what you have, then that is a little bit more than what I have.
Besides, SP do not matter on this subject anyway. I know quite a few people who have been playing since beta and did not even know what ghost training was, and they have nearly 90 mill SP.
Right now I have Cruiser V going and I am just playing the game like I normally do, but it seems 26 days for some of you is like a death sentence, and thus enter ghost training. I happen to like playing the game no matter how long of a skill I have.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 18:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sanadis
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Sanadis
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
Easy for you to say, you're not the one who's only got 15 mill SP and can only use T2 small hybrids.
Well, if that is what you have, then that is a little bit more than what I have.
Besides, SP do not matter on this subject anyway. I know quite a few people who have been playing since beta and did not even know what ghost training was, and they have nearly 90 mill SP.
Right now I have Cruiser V going and I am just playing the game like I normally do, but it seems 26 days for some of you is like a death sentence, and thus enter ghost training. I happen to like playing the game no matter how long of a skill I have.
It's not a death sentence, per se. But after paying 3 months of doing nothing so I could cancel for one and come back to being barely useful instead of completely useless, feels kind of like I got betrayed.
If I'm feeling betrayed, I don't even want to know how the people who fell for the "power of two" feel.
_
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.10.15 21:05:00 -
[22]
can i have your stuff? honestly, everyone knew it was a bonus and never an intended feature.
it sounds like ccp has been fine with a low level of it and the recent surge ****ed them off. I don't even have to log in to advance. no other game has that during a really busy week. if we finally get a skill queue i will be all set.
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Marius Duvall
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.15 21:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: procurement specialist
can i have your stuff? honestly, everyone knew it was a bonus and never an intended feature.
[Citation needed]
---
Originally by: "Reticenti"
Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Charnivale
Villains
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Posted - 2008.10.16 11:31:00 -
[24]
Silly whiners. This isnt a big deal. If you need 8 active accounts to feel happy you have other bigger issues you need to sort out than the fact that you cant pay for them.
It was a nice feature, now its gone, its not a big deal.
Now, start redoing the bloody UI :P
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.16 12:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zinnn
wall of text
Now let me get this straight. Are you implying that CCP announced that they are disabling the skill training when your character is not online or are they disabling the ghost training for inactive accounts.
I'm pretty sure that it's the latter and your incoherent rambling and disaster prediction is not only uncalled for, but also a strong indication that you are trolling or unable to grasp reality.
The categories of people you are mentioning are not able to play 23x7 . I am a member of the afore mentioned groups (not a student) and my workload keeps increasing steadily. I can't be online every day not to mention for prolonged periods.
Still i am able to afford and pay for the account i own (and I could easily afford a second but don't want too) which gives me the right to enjoy the services CCP offers. One of them is being able to train my skills while I am not playing the game.
I can't understand why someone who is not paying for an account, should enjoy the same services as a paying customer does.
If there are people who would not reactivate their accounts because they can't finish training a skill while they don't pay their sub, I can safely assume that they don't like the game either. They are just in here for playing with new toys only, until they get bored of them.
To these people I wish good luck on their next game and would ask them to contract to me their stuff. |
Thargat
Caldari
North Star Networks
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Exxonett
I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
They hunt whales... end of story
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Charnivale
Silly whiners. This isnt a big deal. If you need 8 active accounts to feel happy you have other bigger issues you need to sort out than the fact that you cant pay for them.
It was a wonderful bug, now its gone, its not a big deal.
Now, start redoing the bloody UI :P
fixed for you :D i have used it transfering my alt and the wife's alt from trial to full account. it makes me less angry when i miss a skill change cause i can go hey i already got 2 weeks for free.
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crschlink
F.T.S.L.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:20:00 -
[28]
I am in full support of CCP's decision to get rid of Ghost training. Personally it speaks to players trying to extend beyond their means IMO. If I can only afford one character to train, then thats my own financial issue.
Its their game, we just pay to play it.
My heart goes out to the individials whom have been effected by the latest financial crisis and I pray for your families to continue to have food and a roof over their heads.
Internet Space Ships is serious business, just not IRL.
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Sir SmellyFart
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sanadis
Edited by: Sanadis on 14/10/2008 22:39:40
Originally by: Zathrus
So if I do not pay my account my charicters stop training till I pay my account.
I can live with that.
Same here.
People need to stop crying about the change and get the hell over it. CCP is not going to change their mind just because of a bunch of whiners are telling them to.
Life goes on, get over it.
Well, ppl start whining cause this is the 2nd time in a matter of months that they make EVE cost more, first the GTC price raise, and now this... These changes are hurting the hard core multi-account players BAD! And in the end those are the players that make EVE an interesting game and provide a lot of CCP's income. I hope for their sake they did not shoot themselves in the foot with these 2 measures....
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Thargat
Caldari
North Star Networks
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:39:00 -
[30]
Any players quitting because of this won't be missed or even noticed since they OBVIOUSLY don't have their accounts active anyhow.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
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