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Kaden Aren	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 - [1] I've been around for a while and know that people generally rate the ishtar over the deimos, and that is done for obvious reasons. However, since i've chosen to fly a deimos i'm curious as to just what people think a deimos is capable of soloing. I've got ok skills, and eft (despite its flawed, numbers only view point) gives me a dmg readout at around 700dps. However thats with only a little tank. I'm just curious if anyone can tell me what a dmg fit deimos can concievably fight against.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Kaden Aren I'm just curious if anyone can tell me what a dmg fit deimos can concievably fight against. Hopeless newbies. Seriously. The Deimos is spared the title of "worst HAC" only because the Muninn is so unbelievably horrible that the only plausible explanation is that someone in CCP's design team wanted revenge on the Minmatar players after dying to a Vagabond. The Brutix does everything the Deimos can do, does it better, and does it for less ISK. The only possible reason to ever fly a Deimos is if you really want to humiliate someone, but there aren't any Badgers for sale in your region.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:46:00 - [3] There is a reason for its nickname the "Diemost".
Leobon Gallente Angeli Iustitiorum	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:51:00 - [4] If you dont have good drone skills to use the Ishtar use a brutix and get use to it b/c sooner or later u can fly an Astarte.....But then agen u could just fly a Mega. Your choice. Leo
Kaden Aren	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:51:00 - [5] Edited by: Kaden Aren on 14/10/2008 06:52:08 Merin.....thx for the reply! You made a really great post without even addressing the question I asked. I am aware about the brutix fills basically the same roll. But i want to know what a deimos (even if it sucks for a hac) is capable of. Can it take a t2 bc? or a newb bs?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 06:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 14/10/2008 06:57:40 Originally by: Kaden Aren Edited by: Kaden Aren on 14/10/2008 06:52:08 Merin.....thx for the reply! You made a really great post without even addressing the question I asked. I am aware about the brutix fills basically the same roll. But i want to know what a deimos (even if it sucks for a hac) is capable of. Can it take a t2 bc? or a newb bs? BB: no. CS: no. BC: no. HAC: no. HIC: no. Recon: no. T1 cruiser: yes. AF: yes. Stealth bomber: no. Inty: no. T1 frigate: yes. EAF: no. Newbie version of any of the above: potentially yes. Considering the talent some people have for making comedy setups, you could probably kill a BC or BB in a BattleBadger. In short, what you can kill in a Deimos: T1 cruisers, T1 frigates, assault frigates, and newbies. Have fun with your new (and very expensive) floating loot can.
Kaden Aren	Posted - 2008.10.14 07:04:00 - [7] thx (sincerely this time lol) that was what i was looking for i appreciate it.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 - [8] It's good if you have a Guardian (or Falcon) friend Not a solo ship... - Infectious -
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [9] Edited by: Crellion on 14/10/2008 08:34:36 Originally by: Rawr Cristina It's good if you have a Guardian (or Falcon) friend Not a solo ship... Yes but then 2xBrutix > 1x Deimos = 1x Guardian Of course 1x Falcon + 1x Deimos > 2x Brutix but then 1xFalcon + 1x Thorax > 2x Deimos That is only because 1x Falcon + 1xBrutix > 2x Erebus ... WTF? We are in the same alliance Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:05:00 - [10] Look, the Demios is like the Cerb - but different. Like the Cerb it fails at 1v1, but in larger gangs, with Rapiers and Falcons and all that recon support - the Demios can really add a lot of DPS to the field. Sure the Cerb is a longer range, simple missle spammer glass cannon, but you are a blaster fitted, ganker with an attitude. And yes, you have differences, but ultimatly, you press the MWD on a one way ticket to it or you. The numbers look bad, blasters do need a buff, but its still works in medium roaming gangs (4 to 7 people) ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Leobon Gallente Angeli Iustitiorum	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 14/10/2008 08:34:36 Originally by: Rawr Cristina It's good if you have a Guardian (or Falcon) friend Not a solo ship... Yes but then 2xBrutix > 1x Deimos = 1x Guardian Of course 1x Falcon + 1x Deimos > 2x Brutix but then 1xFalcon + 1x Thorax > 2x Deimos That is only because 1x Falcon + 1xBrutix > 2x Erebus ... WTF? We are in the same alliance LOL. Falcon + Brutix is veary effective. Falcon jams a BS 2x BC with jammers to spare. All the while the brutix pops the 2x BC gets the BS into quarter armor while tanking 10 or so frigs. Ofcorse when i get there in my brutix the BS docks
Murkon Salesgirl Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.14 09:44:00 - [12] Small roam gangs tend to gank stuff 5-10 : 1, so whatever dps u bring is fine. It doesn't make the Deimos any special for this purpose. In a decent size fleet op vs another fleet, the deimos faces usually 2 situations: 1. Gets called primary because everyone knows it has shit for all tank, but has heavy dps. So it dies horribly and does 0 dmg. 2. It manages to MWD to a target, upon reaching said target it does negligible dmg before the target pops to all other focus fire. Now you have to spend plenty of time MWDing towards a new target.. and go to situation #1. A Cerberus is totally fleet capable. There's no comparisons between the two ships. Short range weapons are fine.. only if the ship has other good attributes to compensate. But the Deimos, weak tank, slow, and bad range. It's a bad combination all in 1 ship.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:04:00 - [13] Ahh, the Diemost. Having both ~~fought~~ murdered the ship a number of times and flown alongside Diemost pilost (because some people insist on bringing suicide T2 cruisers for some reason) - I'd like to point out two relevant posts: Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Kaden Aren I'm just curious if anyone can tell me what a dmg fit deimos can concievably fight against. Hopeless newbies. Seriously. The Deimos is spared the title of "worst HAC" only because the Muninn is so unbelievably horrible that the only plausible explanation is that someone in CCP's design team wanted revenge on the Minmatar players after dying to a Vagabond. The Brutix does everything the Deimos can do, does it better, and does it for less ISK. The only possible reason to ever fly a Deimos is if you really want to humiliate someone, but there aren't any Badgers for sale in your region. Beautifully said. I would sticky this somewhere as a warning to all Diemost pilots. Merin should rewrite ship descriptions Originally by: Murkon Salesgirl ~~In a decent size fleet op vs another fleet~~ In any sort of gang vs gang situations, the deimos faces usually 2 situations: 1. Gets called primary because everyone knows it has shit for all tank, but has heavy dps. So it dies horribly and does 0 dmg. 2. It manages to MWD to a target, upon reaching said target it does negligible dmg before the target pops to all other focus fire. Now you have to spend plenty of time MWDing towards a new target.. and go to situation #1. A Cerberus is totally fleet capable. There's no comparisons between the two ships. This, with a minor correction. Even in a very low scale fight, the Diemost is generally primary unless there's a EW ship in range (which would have to die first). It's quite high close-range DPS (ensuring that it gets tackled itself, no need to MWD after it when it has to MWD to you) combined with it's typically paper-thin EHP ensures the title of 'quick primary'. I have seen plated/trimarked/slaved electron fits which do have quite a bit of EHP however, but extremely few people use that (and that one does crap DPS, although it is handy for the 'bait' factor as people generally expect a Diemost to explode in 20 seconds max). Horrible thing is, after spending 150M on the ship and 750M on the implants, that still lost to a not so max skilled and unslaved (and, of course, not trimarked either) Hurricane Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Lubomir Penev Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Kaden Aren I've been around for a while and know that people generally rate the ishtar over the deimos, and that is done for obvious reasons. However, since i've chosen to fly a deimos i'm curious as to just what people think a deimos is capable of soloing. It can solo a Thorax. That's about it. However, this can be a good gang ship. Once flew with one, me in a gank neutron mega with heavy armor maintenance drones on the Deimos. Not only did the Deimos live (high resists make for very efficient remote rep) but it was on top of every killmail despite a theorical lower dps than the mega. Getting in range faster, locking faster, the good tracking is definitely good at something. I like to think of them as super heavy drones, that will absolutely slaughter support and then bring BS class dps one the enemy heavy hitters. Just make provision to keep it alive, either a logistic or rep drones, it can't survive by itself. is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:47:00 - [15] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/10/2008 10:47:14 Originally by: Lubomir Penev I like to think of them as super heavy drones, that will absolutely slaughter support and then bring BS class dps one the enemy heavy hitters. Just make provision to keep it alive, either a logistic or rep drones, it can't survive by itself. Well, if they don't get slaughtered themselves. Mind you, while you can keep it alive via RR, you can still punch through it due to lack of EHP (or just remove the RR). BS-level damage is definitely untrue - it's more like (almost) BC level damage. After all, both the Gallente BCs do over 800 DPS in proper fits. For gangs, however, I'd always prefer something mid-ranged if you want to be DPS support (and/or fill the anti-support role). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Crellion Of course 1x Falcon + 1x Deimos > 2x Brutix but then 1xFalcon + 1x Thorax > 2x Deimos That is only because 1x Falcon + 1xBrutix > 2x Erebus ... well, possibly Quote: WTF? We are in the same alliance Sorry. - Infectious -
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:56:00 - [17] Edited by: The Djego on 14/10/2008 13:00:15 From a Deimos Pilote yes it¦s fun, but it¦s mostly scare people off so im more often in the rax(you can¦t imagine how many people actaly run if they have a Deimos on scanner ). Max Gank fitted it will give ships under BCs a hard battle for his money(talking about 800 DPS + Fittings here, use overload while starting the fight). The DPS/Speed advantage to the Thorax is deacend, don¦t count at the resistances for a Tank Advantage, Deimos dies as quick as a Torax in most of the fights so basicly the same fighting style. Even BCs are possilbe depending on the Tank, you are preaty mutch screwed vs big buffer tanks because of the huge EHP difference. Would actualy say Deimos is not a gang ship(since it called diemost for a reason and you are on the top of the primary list) but it is nice solo if you know what you are dooing and picking your fights. For a unnanoed ship it is quit good, but since everybody claims HACs need to be nanoed you know it can¦t be a good ship in her eyes. If you like the Rax it¦s a good choice, but don¦t expect more than a faster Rax with more Gank and Range from it. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only possible reason to ever fly a Deimos is if you really want to humiliate someone, but there aren't any Badgers for sale in your region. AMAZING. Epic even.
Father Dibbles Self Aggrandisement Society	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:14:00 - [19] It has very poor survivability. That said, with a nice 300km aligned spot off a gate it has incredible hauler/cruiser/poorly fit BC gankability, even with gate guns on you. It just follows the simple rule - kill or be killed. I'm suspicious that all the people that say this that and the other about Diemost listen to other people who haven't flown it properly, or haven't even flown it themselves, or both. A ship is, afterall, what you make of it. There are better HAC's out there - and theres always going to be a situation where your ship bites the dust, thats basic basic PvP. There are great deal of ships that better it in almost every situation - that doesn't mean it isn't a barrel of fun and pant wetting compared to the current state of pvp warfare. Want adrenaline, and got ISK to spank? Choose your targets wisely - I had fun
whisk Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 - [20] looks nice, but unless you have deimos BPO, dont bother Adapt or Die
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 16:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Father Dibbles It just follows the simple rule - kill or be killed. I'm suspicious that all the people that say this that and the other about Diemost listen to other people who haven't flown it properly, or haven't even flown it themselves, or both. A ship is, afterall, what you make of it. There's a reason why quite a lot of BC pilots play the mini-game of guessing "how fast will this Deimos pop" Btw, so far the most effective Deimos I had a fight against was 1600mm+electrons. And it still only comes close to a BC in a point-blank slugfest, while loosing out on versatility.
Arazel Chainfire The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:58:00 - [22] Slight addition to targets - BC's under gategun fire. I actually managed to kill a passivetank drake in one once because he was taking gategun fire... admittedly it took nearly ten minutes, but still... Its a great ship to have fun with and if you have a large wallet and don't mind loosing it, it makes for excelent leroy's If you don't have a large wallet however, go grab your thorax for day to day pvp -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Vathar The Wings of Maak	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:13:00 - [23] Deimos sucks horribly in solo, is extremely fun to fly in gangs, and has one thing the brutix will never boast: much better agility. However, it has extremely low EHP (around 25k if you go for a 700dps fit, drones included) In order to use it, you have to make sure you have a well coordinated gang, be ready to call for rep, ECM cover as soon as all hell breaks lose, and in a general sort of way, be a sneaky b4$t4rd trying to apply heavy dps to the target in a minimum of time (the equivalent of a backstabber in other contexts). Don't fly it in a do or die way, as you'll just ... die. not an everyday ship overall, but it has its uses. And lastly, med ECM drones will lower your dps but keep you alive.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.15 10:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Kaden Aren I've been around for a while and know that people generally rate the ishtar over the deimos, and that is done for obvious reasons. However, since i've chosen to fly a deimos i'm curious as to just what people think a deimos is capable of soloing. I've got ok skills, and eft (despite its flawed, numbers only view point) gives me a dmg readout at around 700dps. However thats with only a little tank. I'm just curious if anyone can tell me what a dmg fit deimos can concievably fight against. On a hac with 3 medium slots and cap using weapons only buffer tank is a viable solution imo. So... plate, trimarks, 2-3 mag stabs, what guns fit. No rep. You need a web, so cap booster is out of question plus it's a big hit on grid, so is rep. Pretty much like tanked zealot, just more dps and cap, less range. As for soloing... never had the impression hac can solo much when pure fight is taken into acount. It's good in the sense it has much better chances of GTFOing upon jumping into nasty stuff on gates than a battlecruiser. You can probably take on an active tanked BC, especially tier 1. Expect a terrible death from a decent tier 2. Badly fitted people of course dont count. Possibly a turret BS by getting to point blank to complicate his tracking, than again most lone BSs found off stations/gates arent really hard to kill with most other ships or are simply traps. From what I saw deimos becomes really effective in a gang, multiple deimoses can do extremely high dps for their size, usually more than any other hac, while few other ships (falcon/guardian combo for example) keep them alive. It's actually a good ship as far as non nano hacs go, since it can break just about any tank without the help of neutralizing ships as is often the case in small hac/recon gangs. Also killing the target fast makes hit and run an option against larger opposition, and being more nimble than a bc helps when you get to the "run" part. Originally by: Arazel Chainfire Slight addition to targets - BC's under gategun fire. I actually managed to kill a passivetank drake in one once because he was taking gategun fire... admittedly it took nearly ten minutes, but still... Passive drakes are probably the most useless widely used ships in this game. Try that with a harb or hurri, or even a drake that actually has a pvp fit.
Valea Silpha Death Monkey's With Knives	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:58:00 - [25] The big problem with the deimos is its lack of armor buffer. Yes, it does throw out a LOT of dps for its size, but nothing special in the grand scheme of things, so really theres no reason to fly one aside frmo suicidal tendencies. As someone above said, gangs tend to be looking to gank things. Thats definitely true. But nowerdays this takes a while, since most things will have a ton of plates etc, and if you have just jumped some poor guy, he'll most likely be looking to kill one of you if he can, just becuase it'll make him feel better about the whole incident. And given the choice between shooting tanked bses and a flimsy lil deimos ... he'll beat the crap out of you. You'll be working inside neut and web range with dire cap problems and without a significant buffer to hold you together while the other guy goes down. Deimos SUCK. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:15:00 - [26] thorax > diemos but yeah only crappier ship is muninn. --------
ChalSto LOCKDOWN.	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:22:00 - [27] Ofc the Diemost ist one of the crappiest HACs out there, but everyone forgets one very important thing: IT LOOKS FREAKING COOL TO BURN INTO WEB-RANGE AND UNLEASH HELL And its fun Happy Dieing Lllllerrroyyyyy..... Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens."
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Valea Silpha The big problem with the deimos is its lack of armor buffer. Hm? 40-45k ehp is as good as a hac can get. Only sacrilege can get more out of conceptually similar setup. Deimos does roughly equal dps to brutix while having 30% less tank and 50% more agility and speed, if we are comparing plated setups. Of course the deimos one often sees on killboards, with rep + eanm + dc tank is crap, but that's because the setup is bad not the ship. It instapops of course, but so does any ship with such a stupid setup. It has it's role and it's good at it, issue is the role isnt to orbit at 23km spitting barrage at stuff to get into killmail while pretending to be useful by keeping a point on primary, it can be dangerous and it can often lead to losing the ship, so it's popularity naturally isnt very high.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: Valea Silpha The big problem with the deimos is its lack of armor buffer. Hm? 40-45k ehp is as good as a hac can get. Only sacrilege can get more out of conceptually similar setup. Deimos does roughly equal dps to brutix while having 30% less tank and 50% more agility and speed, if we are comparing plated setups. Of course the deimos one often sees on killboards, with rep + eanm + dc tank is crap, but that's because the setup is bad not the ship. It instapops of course, but so does any ship with such a stupid setup. It has it's role and it's good at it, issue is the role isnt to orbit at 23km spitting barrage at stuff to get into killmail while pretending to be useful by keeping a point on primary, it can be dangerous and it can often lead to losing the ship, so it's popularity naturally isnt very high. Nicely put. Of course, the Deimos (much like a Brutix though) is the ideal target to take down with you in a fight. For gang situations, I often use a artycane, merely because when facing battleships, they're going to shoot something before they die - if they shoot a plated BS, they're most likely going down before they can score a kill. A close-range BC they'll melt before they die just fine, and same applies to a Deimos. And for people plinking away with barrage at 23km, well... can we talk about 0 contribution? ;) Before you say, 'oh, arties suck' - yes they do. However, for actual DPS dealing out of webrange, it is massively superior to ACs in optimal+falloff (or in fact, anywhere from optimal + 1/2 falloff). Ability to hit up to 60km out is handy too. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2008.10.15 14:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: Valea Silpha The big problem with the deimos is its lack of armor buffer. Hm? 40-45k ehp is as good as a hac can get. Only sacrilege can get more out of conceptually similar setup. Deimos does roughly equal dps to brutix while having 30% less tank and 50% more agility and speed, if we are comparing plated setups. Of course the deimos one often sees on killboards, with rep + eanm + dc tank is crap, but that's because the setup is bad not the ship. It instapops of course, but so does any ship with such a stupid setup. It has it's role and it's good at it, issue is the role isnt to orbit at 23km spitting barrage at stuff to get into killmail while pretending to be useful by keeping a point on primary, it can be dangerous and it can often lead to losing the ship, so it's popularity naturally isnt very high. You cant do any damage if your dead, a good part of flying in a gang is knowing how to not get yourself killed. A hurricane plinking away with barrage outside of that big nasty hyperions range will most likely do more damage over the course of the fight than the deimos motoring into range only for the hyperion pilot to say "Oh lol that guy is flying an expensive uninsured ship that i can melt quicker than his whole gang can break my tank" The deimos is highly usefull to his gang a few seconds later when his face gets melted by a few volleys of Void Large Anyone who is flying a non nano HAC these days is a harbouring some worryingly masochistic tendencies. Kazang

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