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How extended is the concept of Sandbox for this Burn Jita thing ?

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Dead Loss Sweet Capsuleer Tears 10	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:31:00 - [1] - Quote Consider this : Eve is supposed to be a sandbox where we can pretty much what we want as long as it doesn't break the rules. I am not going to discuss the rules in themselves. Now, as a part of the Eve universe, there is the entity of CONCORD. CONCORD represents the justice system of Eve in a way, and by its side the various imperial/republic/navy fleets of the 4 races. If CCP is going to play this sandbox universe as it should, then they have to use CONCORD as it should be used by an envirnment which is constantly evolving. My point is this : 1 - Goons decide to burn Jita. They announce it publicly, we have knowledge of numbers of ships, in the thousands, that they are planning to bring to Jita. 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. 3 - CONCORD could possibly reinforce its presence in Jita as a response to the global knowledge that the Goonswarm alliance is planning to strike at the heart of the Empire. I mean, this is not against Goonswarm. But there seems to be the following debate : - Either CCP allows Goonswarm to burn Jita to the ground and thousands of people will be pissed off because they lost huge amounts of assets, ships, isk etc. - Either CCP stops Goonswarm from doing this and thousands of people will be pissed off for violation of the sandbox concept. As far as I am concerned, there are many other options for CCP to deal with this. One of them is what I was talking about. The Empire is under the jurisdiction of CONCORD and the various states in it (Caldari in this case). - Why would the Caldari State and CONCORD not decide to bring Jita up to a 1.0 security system ? - Why would CONCORD not decide to bring in thousands of their ships into Jita for the duration of the event ? Why would CONCORD not issue a global terrorism flag on Goonswarm for the duration of the event, making all of their members criminals flagged on a 24/7 GCC ? I mean, the decision to strike at the heart of the Empire, to strike at the heart of the trading system of the Empire, that decision is taken consciously by the leaders of Goonswarm, and ALL of the alliance is accepting it and supporting it. So if CONCORD and the Caldari State consider that the whole alliance represents a global security concern for them, the decision to flag the whole alliance on a temporary GCC isn't going against the sandbox. This just means that Goonswarm will have to adapt. They will still be able to re-group in low sec, on the outside of the Caldari State, etc. And from there they will have to figure out how to make it to Jita as fast as possible, to strike as hard as possible. But it shouldn't be possible to any member of Goonswarm to have Orcas posted in safe spots in Jita for example, or anywhere in the Caldari State systems as far as I am concerned. And this is not CCP making it harder on the Goons, this is the Goons making it harder on themselves. But if this is a sandbox, and things have to be a bit realistic, then once an announcement has been made that a whole alliance will engage in terrorism, if it's left ignored then there is no realism at all. And again, I'm not saying this to **** of the Goons. I actually find it funny that they attempt this, and I will watch with great interest. I just don't think that CCP should forbid it just as much as they shouldn't ignore it and let Jita burn so easily. CONCORD is there for a reason.
Danfen Fenix Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance 45	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:36:00 - [2] - Quote This is true Fight to preserve the sandbox....experience the full possibilities of the sandbox Unless of course, goons now want to claim that the game should be a sandbox, by how they... define a sandbox
Torneach Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:40:00 - [3] - Quote Danfen Fenix wrote: Unless of course, goons now want to claim that the game should be a sandbox, by how they... define a sandbox There lies the problem. Goons have been on top for so long now that they now seem to have a bit of a superiority complex. Their way or the highway.
Alexa Coates The Scope Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:41:00 - [4] - Quote I was expecting a whine thread but this is very well thought out. Good idea OP. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships!
Pubbie 0ne GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:41:00 - [5] - Quote Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day?
Sid Hudgens 9	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:48:00 - [6] - Quote Hmmm... people ganking in jita. That doesn't sound like something that happens ... you know ... all the live long day. Wait yes it does. Stop thinking this will be some kind of major event. Nobody with any sense cares.
Torneach Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2012.03.31 16:48:00 - [7] - Quote Pubbie 0ne wrote: Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day? Missed by a mile.
Dead Loss Sweet Capsuleer Tears 13	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:01:00 - [8] - Quote Pubbie 0ne wrote: Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day? Completely unrelated. But I can see how everytime we talk about the goons you feel offended. Believe me there is no offense meant here.
Kazacy BACKFIRE Squad S O L A R I S 16	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:14:00 - [9] - Quote to the OP: burn Jita it's posted on eve-o forums but are you sure CONCORD read this forum?
Mr LaForge Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 267	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:18:00 - [10] - Quote Get a thrasher and kill some pods. Stuff Goes here
Proletariat Tingtango GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 27	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:19:00 - [11] - Quote To play along with a really bad post: CONCORD can't read out-of-game intel.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 5845	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote Dead Loss wrote: 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. No, that does not follow. CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (by building module X instead of ship Y. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve GÇö it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
baltec1 975	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:25:00 - [13] - Quote CONCORD dont base their fleet deployment on rumors and hearsay.
Judge Solace Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:27:00 - [14] - Quote Tippia wrote: Dead Loss wrote: 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. No, that does not follow. CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve GÇö it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world. Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role.
Sedalectra GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:29:00 - [15] - Quote How about something really wild, like the PLAYERS actually take action to defend Jita? No, you're right, that's crazy talk. I must have lost my head there for a second.
VaMei Meafi Corp 109	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:32:00 - [16] - Quote Judge Solace wrote: Tippia wrote: Dead Loss wrote: 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. No, that does not follow. CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve GÇö it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world. Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role. Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety.
Lord Publow The Publow Confederation 13	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:34:00 - [17] - Quote Salam, Brother Loss. The extension of the core does not matter, it is why we call it an extension. I fight for Hoovers everywhere.-áhttp://hoover.com/
Judge Solace Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:35:00 - [18] - Quote VaMei wrote: Judge Solace wrote: Tippia wrote: Dead Loss wrote: 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. No, that does not follow. CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve GÇö it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world. Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role. Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety. "CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment." http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD
VaMei Meafi Corp 109	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:36:00 - [19] - Quote Judge Solace wrote: VaMei wrote: Judge Solace wrote: Tippia wrote: Dead Loss wrote: 2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe. No, that does not follow. CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve GÇö it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world. Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role. Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety. "CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment." http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD As I said, lore aside.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 119	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:38:00 - [20] - Quote lore is written to justify the game mechanics devs don't sit down and say "the lore says..." "Nullsec alliances will now begin counting reporters on staff along with supercapitals and tech moons. Unironically." - The Mittani
Judge Solace Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:41:00 - [21] - Quote VaMei wrote: Judge Solace wrote: "CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment." http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD As I said, lore aside. CCP define the Lore. They also provide the sandbox. CCP can change the atmospheric qualities of the sandbox as they see fit. Perfectly within the remit of a responce based on the OP's suggestion. Also CCP have been known to enter the Sandbox with specific events from time to time as NPCs. Nothing stopping them from doing so in any shape or form to provide a more enriched and immersive gaming experience. Just since someone wants to push Lore aside to make the sandbox work in a certain way isn't a strong argument at all.
Justa Altlol Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:41:00 - [22] - Quote Or you could stop crying about it, avoid Jita for a day or two until the goons run out of ships and/or get bored and then make a killing selling stuff to people who got ganked. If I was a carebear industry type I'd be really excited.
Marcus Shamonomonom University of Caille Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:45:00 - [23] - Quote I'm just guessing but i think the issue would be programming, and how not cost effective it might be to waste time on it for just one day/however long jita is targeted. Not that some of the devs might not like the idea, but I'm sure they've got other things one their hands, Inferno and all that. Oh look, a copy of NC's forums: http://dumps.eve-leaks.co.uk/nc-dot.com/forum.html
ApophisXP Sadistic Retribution Sadistic Empire 28	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:46:00 - [24] - Quote More concord sent to jita means that there will be less concord elsewhere meaning other places would be less secured :o I would like to see this, and explore other systems with next to no concord that are 1.0 systems :o
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 5847	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:47:00 - [25] - Quote Judge Solace wrote: "CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment." http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD GÇªand they will do exactly that during Burn Jita. Again, just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to change, adapt, or evolve in any way. In fact, if anything, the exact opposite is the expected behaviour: that they will behave exactly the same way they always do so as to not upset the sandbox and take things out of the hands of the players. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
Judge Solace Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:47:00 - [26] - Quote Marcus Shamonomonom wrote: I'm just guessing but i think the issue would be programming, and how not cost effective it might be to waste time on it for just one day/however long jita is targeted. Not that some of the devs might not like the idea, but I'm sure they've got other things one their hands, Inferno and all that. You guess wrong. They can jump in as chars as they like, they can spawn things as need be with GM abilities, its in the system Given the revenge nature of this, might be a useful therapuetic proposal for Goons to have some pot shots at CCP pixels if it will help their mental health in the long term. ;)
Xander Riggs The Scope Gallente Federation 130	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:51:00 - [27] - Quote Alright, we'll play along. For that day, Jita will be a 2.0 security system. All other high sec systems drop to 0.5 or belowto reflect the unsusual deployment of concord forces. "A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Judge Solace Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:51:00 - [28] - Quote ApophisXP wrote: More concord sent to jita means that there will be less concord elsewhere meaning other places would be less secured :o I would like to see this, and explore other systems with next to no concord that are 1.0 systems :o Considering that Jita is the major crime centre of the universe, this would be a sensible compromise. Likewise they could be suplemented in ranks with factional navies if deemed of significant political interest. Sure Caldari can out afford paying CONCORD to look the other way for the Swarm. ;)
Hatch Nasty Mean and Nasty 1	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:53:00 - [29] - Quote To iterate one step further on this idea, why should CONCORD be solely responsible for defending Empire space? The Caldari have a navy. They have a militia. They have major NPC corps. And the Caldari regions are heavily populated. An alliance has declared war on Jita, and by extension, the Caldari State. Why wouldn't the State reciprocate and declare Goonswarm a war target for any and all within the Caldari regions - high sec or low sec If they did this, there's no need to augment or reinforce CONCORD. Let the residents of Caldari space join forces with CONCORD, the Caldari Navy, the State Protectorate, and the major NPC corps to defend their own territory against this terrorist organization. I mean, wasn't that the story basis for incursions? The Goons are planning an incursion, plain and simple. Let the residents of the Caldari regions fleet up and repel the incursion. That would be more interesting and realistic than just buffing CONCORD and letting them handle the problem Talk about potential for large-scale, sub-capital fleet battles.. - Hatch
baltec1 975	Posted - 2012.03.31 17:54:00 - [30] - Quote Judge Solace wrote: ApophisXP wrote: More concord sent to jita means that there will be less concord elsewhere meaning other places would be less secured :o I would like to see this, and explore other systems with next to no concord that are 1.0 systems :o Considering that Jita is the major crime centre of the universe, this would be a sensible compromise. Likewise they could be suplemented in ranks with factional navies if deemed of significant political interest. Sure Caldari can out afford paying CONCORD to look the other way for the Swarm. ;) Lets not forget the CONCORD HQ was wiped out and that the threat of that minmatar fleet returning is still very real. And the fact that the Caldari cannot afford to re-deploy their forces because that would open the door for the Gal navy to make gains.

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