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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
JaxxFunk
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.17 15:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: JaxxFunk on 17/10/2008 15:32:37 The prerequisites for some of the certificates are broken (not to mention the fact that the description for Battleship Projetile Turrets basic says The holder is aware that projectile turrets use crystal ammunition which is not consumed on firing. ). For instance, a prerequisite for Battleship Projectile Turrets (standard) is Turret Control (standard), and a skill required for this is Controlled Bursts lvl3. Now why would a Projectile user need Controlled Bursts lvl3?
Ninja edit: changed title
You aint seen me...right |
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.17 16:30:00 -
[2]
Because the projectile certificates are based on the standard gunnery certificates which includes the controlled bursts skill.
About the descriptions: Yepp some of them are screwed up or maybe a bad joke, I got no idea. But still it isn't completly finished |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.17 17:34:00 -
[3]
Controlled Bursts thing is being addressed; have added the description bug to my "to fix" list. Thanks!
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Research Rachel
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Posted - 2008.10.17 21:57:00 -
[4]
also whats the point having mutlitasking as a req since it's pretty redundant.
Even a titan can only have 8 targets, ms 6 and yet you want people to train it to get some of the certificates?
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.18 06:03:00 -
[5]
mate certificates are usseles and they was made from carebear to carebears... dont have ani sense i can fly hacs and recons and i dont have ani certificate becouse i need one industrial skill so i can have the cap certificate... LOL ...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Research Rachel also whats the point having mutlitasking as a req since it's pretty redundant.
Even a titan can only have 8 targets, ms 6 and yet you want people to train it to get some of the certificates?
Well, you do get 10 targets on a Rook or Basilisk.
erm. I'd like to add that EWAR Operator - Elite, seems to have itself as a prereq.
(And core targeting - Elite requires multitasking 5 is nuts) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 18/10/2008 22:34:19 Edited by: Lost Hamster on 18/10/2008 22:31:20 As all my bug reports are filtered for the certificates I would like to write them here // Please make this suggestion in an appropriate section of the forums. Thanks - Certamen
So here we go: Definitive BUG: ---------------- ID: 63989 The pre-requisite of the Industrial harvesting - BASIC is Resource harvester - ELITE - it should be basic.
---------------- ID: 63988 The pre-requisite of the Mercoxit specialist BASIC is Resource harvester - ELITE - it should be basic.
---------------- ---------------- Re-designs: ID: 63987 I would like to suggest a redesign of the Leadership certificates. Especially the Armored warfare, Harvesting, Infromation Warfare, Sige, Skirmish warfare cert.
I think that the basic level have a high pre-requisite (lvl 5 skill) I would decrease the pre-requisite to lvl 4. For the standard I would suggest either the lvl5 skill or the specialist lvl 2 skill.
As the improved skill are missing I would create them with the attributes of the current standard levels.
I believe that this changes would improve the Leadership certificates.
--------------- ID: 63990 I would like to suggest the change of the Elite - propulsion jammer certificate. I believe that a elite certificate should show that the player is capable of using a heavy interdictors warp distruption field generator.
To archive this the pre-requisite should contain: Graviton Physic lvl 4.
ps: I have additional 14 bug reports for certificate which are attached to defect. :)
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:44:00 -
[8]
Some certificate oddities:
Under Harvesting: The Common Ore Extractor and Rare Ore Extractor paths require the ore specific processing skills at Level V, though they do not affect extraction with anything higher than IV (to get tech 2 crystals) The Ore Refiner does NOT require the specific processing skills at all. Industrial Harvesting - Basic requires Resource Harvesting - Elite? (this in turn recommends getting Mining Upgrades to V, though it is hardly useful past IV for the tech 2 upgrades) Automated Mining - Standard somehow requires Amarr Industry - Prospector - Elite... Armor tanking?
Under Leadership: Harvesting Comptroller - Standard requires Tactical Commander - Standard, which require Wing Command IV? That is a HUGE mining fleet for a 'Standard' mining director. This results in my Maxxed out Mining Director (bonuses maxxed, WITH implant) only having Harvesting Comptroller - Basic :eek
Under Core: Core Tagetting requires Multitasking III??? that's a crapload more targets than most ships can come close to holding.
Under Drones: Specialist Drone Operator - Any require training all 4 races, making you hardly a 'Specialized Drone Operator'. Needs to be broken down by race. No path apparent for non-combat drones (TP, ECM, Web, etc.)
Under Navigation: Cartographer - Standard looks to already put you into the Tech 2 ship requirement (and at level IV Covert Ops?)
Under Business and Industry: Production Manager - Basic requires Drug Manufacturing? Boosters should NOT be inthe normal production pipeline.
Basically, as a veteran, I see some VERY big problems with the certificate system, and it's usefullness as it currently stands is a big zero. at nearly 40 million sp, I can run a MAXXED hulk, and get MAXIMUM yield, though I am only have Resource Harvester - Improved, and Common and Rare Ore extraction at Basic. I can run a 30 man Mining op, with maxed bonuses (without a rorqual), though my Harvesting Comptroller is at Basic :eek. How do these certificated relate my abilities in any way? The only Elite certs I have are Production Intern, and Ore Refiner.
POS Personal Storage |
Ryas Nia
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Clansworth
Under Core: Core Tagetting requires Multitasking III??? that's a crapload more targets than most ships can come close to holding.
I have yet to find a ship that allows more than 10 targets, which is targeting 5 + multitasking 3.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clansworth Some certificate oddities:
I'm glad that you found this problems as well.
More to go:
Gallente business - executive commander - basic ID: 63718 To have a similar requisite with the other executive commander skills the correct pre-requisit should be: from armored warfare lvl4 to -> repairs systems lvl4
Currently the Gallente business - executive commander had 2 warfare skill as pre-req.
Caldari military solider - basic ID: 63717 The Caldari military solider - basic needs to be changed so it will be on the same level as the other race solider: pre-requisite should be: missile lanucher operation lvl 4 -> lvl 5 standard missile lvl3 -> lvl4 or 5.
Industry Engineer - basic ID: 63716 This changes needs to be done to have all skill requirements on the same level
minmatar: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 5 -> lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
gallente: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 4 -> lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
caldari mass prod: lvl 1 -> lvl 3 industry lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 5 -> lvl 3
amar: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
minmatar business - executive commander - basic ID: 63715 The pre-requires needs to changed from skirmish warfare lvl 3 to lvl 4 This is needed to have them on the same level for all skirmish warfare certification.
Amarr industry prospector - basic ID: 63714 To get the certificate to the same level as all other prospector certificate: Industry lvl 4 needs to be changed to lvl 3
ECM Operator - standard ID:63710 The pre-requisite needs some adjustment: Electronic warfare lvl 5 > lvl 3 or 4 LVL4 is enough for all T2 devices so LVL 5 is not needed.
Passive shield tanking - basic ID: 63674 the pre-requisite for Passive shield tanking basic is wrong. Currently it requires Active shield tanking - standard. I think it should be the basic only.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 19/10/2008 09:53:15 Some more for the Business and Industry category: Most of this suggestions are for re-balancing the certificates, but there are some bugs as well. Here we go:
Production manager - basic No description pre-requisit should be changed from Production intern - elite to basic Supply chain management lvl 3 remove completly Advanced mass production lvl2 to mass production lvl2 Drug manufacturing lvl3 to lvl 1 ore remove it completly
Production manager - standard No description pre-requisit should be changed from Drug manufacturing lvl5 to lvl 3 or remove it completly Advanced mass production lvl2 to mass production lvl5 Supply chain management lvl 3 to lvl 2
Production manager - improved No description pre-requisit should be changed from Advanced mass production lvl4 to lvl3 Supply chain management lvl 5 to lvl 4
Production manager - elite No description add as pre-requisit : Supply chain management lvl 5
Business Tycoon - basic No description pre-requisit should be changed from Business Mogul elite to basic
Business Tycoon - standard No description pre-requisit should be changed from Procurement lvl 4 to lvl 3 accounting lvl 5 to lvl 3 daytrading lvl 5 to lvl 3
Business Tycoon - improved No description pre-requisit should be changed from Procurement lvl 5 to lvl 4 Margin trading lvl 5 to lvl 4 wholesale lvl 5 remove completly, as Trycoon lvl3 have wholesale lvl 5 as pre-requisite And put there instead off: daytrading lvl 4
Business Tycoon - elite No description Add as pre-requisite: Procurement lvl 5 Margin trading lvl 5 daytrading lvl 5
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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 19/10/2008 10:06:29 Production Manager requires Drug Manufacturing though it's forbidden by CONCORD to manufacture them. It would be useful to make another certificate for it (like Illegal Production)
It would be useful to make separate Cetificates for drones like: Amarr Drone Control, Gallente Drone Control, Caldari Drone Control, Minmatar Drone Control. Because I haven't trained Amarr Drones (i'm talking about my alt), because they seem to be quite useless to me, and i don't get any certificates for training 3 other specialisations.
I can't understand Why Active shielding need Shield Upgrades (all modules that need shield upgrades are used in passive tanking as i think.)
------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
Strill
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Research Rachel also whats the point having mutlitasking as a req since it's pretty redundant.
Even a titan can only have 8 targets, ms 6 and yet you want people to train it to get some of the certificates?
CCP Greyscale says it's being reduced so you only require Multitasking 3 for the elite cert.
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Mark Interiis
Gallente Disturbing Creations Laboratories Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:39:00 -
[14]
There are modules that enhance the number of targets you ship can manage, once again making these last levels of skill viable.
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Finnroth
Caldari The Crimson Fraternity
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mark Interiis There are modules that enhance the number of targets you ship can manage, once again making these last levels of skill viable.
Noone right in his mind would use Auto Targeters.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Finnroth
Originally by: Mark Interiis There are modules that enhance the number of targets you ship can manage, once again making these last levels of skill viable.
Noone right in his mind would use Auto Targeters.
Actually, Signal Amplifier II (the lowslot sensor booster type module) also add +1 target so you'd only need a couple of them on a logistics ship or a destroyer to be able to target 12 targets at once (which would require multitasking 5). I do however feel that Targetting IV should be sufficient for "Core Targetting - Standard".
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:33:00 -
[17]
Whoops, forgot about this thread...
Originally by: Lost Hamster
So here we go: Definitive BUG: ---------------- ID: 63989 The pre-requisite of the Industrial harvesting - BASIC is Resource harvester - ELITE - it should be basic.
---------------- ID: 63988 The pre-requisite of the Mercoxit specialist BASIC is Resource harvester - ELITE - it should be basic.
---------------- ---------------- Re-designs: ID: 63987 I would like to suggest a redesign of the Leadership certificates. Especially the Armored warfare, Harvesting, Infromation Warfare, Sige, Skirmish warfare cert.
I think that the basic level have a high pre-requisite (lvl 5 skill) I would decrease the pre-requisite to lvl 4. For the standard I would suggest either the lvl5 skill or the specialist lvl 2 skill.
As the improved skill are missing I would create them with the attributes of the current standard levels.
I believe that this changes would improve the Leadership certificates.
--------------- ID: 63990 I would like to suggest the change of the Elite - propulsion jammer certificate. I believe that a elite certificate should show that the player is capable of using a heavy interdictors warp distruption field generator.
To archive this the pre-requisite should contain: Graviton Physic lvl 4.
- Still investigating Harvesting certs - The Chief certs are meant to represent an improved level of competence, hence the high base reqs. We're going to bump them up to standard/improved/elite rather than basic/standard/elite though - We'd prefer to keep interdiction stuff in its own cert for now
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Clansworth Some certificate oddities:
Under Harvesting: The Common Ore Extractor and Rare Ore Extractor paths require the ore specific processing skills at Level V, though they do not affect extraction with anything higher than IV (to get tech 2 crystals) The Ore Refiner does NOT require the specific processing skills at all. Industrial Harvesting - Basic requires Resource Harvesting - Elite? (this in turn recommends getting Mining Upgrades to V, though it is hardly useful past IV for the tech 2 upgrades) Automated Mining - Standard somehow requires Amarr Industry - Prospector - Elite... Armor tanking?
Under Leadership: Harvesting Comptroller - Standard requires Tactical Commander - Standard, which require Wing Command IV? That is a HUGE mining fleet for a 'Standard' mining director. This results in my Maxxed out Mining Director (bonuses maxxed, WITH implant) only having Harvesting Comptroller - Basic :eek
Under Core: Core Tagetting requires Multitasking III??? that's a crapload more targets than most ships can come close to holding.
Under Drones: Specialist Drone Operator - Any require training all 4 races, making you hardly a 'Specialized Drone Operator'. Needs to be broken down by race. No path apparent for non-combat drones (TP, ECM, Web, etc.)
Under Navigation: Cartographer - Standard looks to already put you into the Tech 2 ship requirement (and at level IV Covert Ops?)
Under Business and Industry: Production Manager - Basic requires Drug Manufacturing? Boosters should NOT be inthe normal production pipeline.
Basically, as a veteran, I see some VERY big problems with the certificate system, and it's usefullness as it currently stands is a big zero. at nearly 40 million sp, I can run a MAXXED hulk, and get MAXIMUM yield, though I am only have Resource Harvester - Improved, and Common and Rare Ore extraction at Basic. I can run a 30 man Mining op, with maxed bonuses (without a rorqual), though my Harvesting Comptroller is at Basic :eek. How do these certificated relate my abilities in any way? The only Elite certs I have are Production Intern, and Ore Refiner.
- As above, harvesting is being looked at some more, I agree it's odd currently. - Changed standard to have no Tactical Commander req, and bumped the improved one to require tac commander standard - Changed Core Targeting Standard to require multitasking 1 (and elite to require 3) - Lack of racial specialist drone certs is mainly because the system doesn't support doing "or" operators at this time. Lack of non-combat drone specialties is due if memory serves to having that set of certs trimmed as part of an effort to cut down on the total number of certs - Cartographer requirements are due to the huge bonuses you get from having the covops skill trained (and flying the appropriate ship) - Industry certs are also being looked at again
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lost Hamster
Originally by: Clansworth Some certificate oddities:
I'm glad that you found this problems as well.
More to go:
Gallente business - executive commander - basic ID: 63718 To have a similar requisite with the other executive commander skills the correct pre-requisit should be: from armored warfare lvl4 to -> repairs systems lvl4
Currently the Gallente business - executive commander had 2 warfare skill as pre-req.
Caldari military solider - basic ID: 63717 The Caldari military solider - basic needs to be changed so it will be on the same level as the other race solider: pre-requisite should be: missile lanucher operation lvl 4 -> lvl 5 standard missile lvl3 -> lvl4 or 5.
Industry Engineer - basic ID: 63716 This changes needs to be done to have all skill requirements on the same level
minmatar: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 5 -> lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
gallente: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 4 -> lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
caldari mass prod: lvl 1 -> lvl 3 industry lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 5 -> lvl 3
amar: mass prod: lvl 3 industry lvl 3 laboratory op. lvl 3
minmatar business - executive commander - basic ID: 63715 The pre-requires needs to changed from skirmish warfare lvl 3 to lvl 4 This is needed to have them on the same level for all skirmish warfare certification.
Amarr industry prospector - basic ID: 63714 To get the certificate to the same level as all other prospector certificate: Industry lvl 4 needs to be changed to lvl 3
ECM Operator - standard ID:63710 The pre-requisite needs some adjustment: Electronic warfare lvl 5 > lvl 3 or 4 LVL4 is enough for all T2 devices so LVL 5 is not needed.
Passive shield tanking - basic ID: 63674 the pre-requisite for Passive shield tanking basic is wrong. Currently it requires Active shield tanking - standard. I think it should be the basic only.
- Basic profession certs are done based on what skills you get at character creation - in all these cases it's not consistent because the skills you get aren't consistent across races. The "bugged" condition for these certs are if you can't claim exactly one at character creation - The Ewar cert sets all require the cap-reducing skill at 5 for the standard level, because it didn't feel right to not ask for that until elite. If it's a big problem it can be changed - Passive shield tanking basic cert has been reworked to not require any active shield certs
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lost Hamster Edited by: Lost Hamster on 19/10/2008 09:53:15 Some more for the Business and Industry category: Most of this suggestions are for re-balancing the certificates, but there are some bugs as well. Here we go:
Production manager - basic No description pre-requisit should be changed from Production intern - elite to basic Supply chain management lvl 3 remove completly Advanced mass production lvl2 to mass production lvl2 Drug manufacturing lvl3 to lvl 1 ore remove it completly
Production manager - standard No description pre-requisit should be changed from Drug manufacturing lvl5 to lvl 3 or remove it completly Advanced mass production lvl2 to mass production lvl5 Supply chain management lvl 3 to lvl 2
Production manager - improved No description pre-requisit should be changed from Advanced mass production lvl4 to lvl3 Supply chain management lvl 5 to lvl 4
Production manager - elite No description add as pre-requisit : Supply chain management lvl 5
Business Tycoon - basic No description pre-requisit should be changed from Business Mogul elite to basic
Business Tycoon - standard No description pre-requisit should be changed from Procurement lvl 4 to lvl 3 accounting lvl 5 to lvl 3 daytrading lvl 5 to lvl 3
Business Tycoon - improved No description pre-requisit should be changed from Procurement lvl 5 to lvl 4 Margin trading lvl 5 to lvl 4 wholesale lvl 5 remove completly, as Trycoon lvl3 have wholesale lvl 5 as pre-requisite And put there instead off: daytrading lvl 4
Business Tycoon - elite No description Add as pre-requisite: Procurement lvl 5 Margin trading lvl 5 daytrading lvl 5
Will look into these further
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Trimutius III Edited by: Trimutius III on 19/10/2008 10:06:29 Production Manager requires Drug Manufacturing though it's forbidden by CONCORD to manufacture them. It would be useful to make another certificate for it (like Illegal Production)
It would be useful to make separate Cetificates for drones like: Amarr Drone Control, Gallente Drone Control, Caldari Drone Control, Minmatar Drone Control. Because I haven't trained Amarr Drones (i'm talking about my alt), because they seem to be quite useless to me, and i don't get any certificates for training 3 other specialisations.
I can't understand Why Active shielding need Shield Upgrades (all modules that need shield upgrades are used in passive tanking as i think.)
- Booster manufacturing reqs are being investigated - This is due to the inability to set OR conditions (see above) - Shield Upgrades gives access to extenders and resistance amplifiers
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- The Ewar cert sets all require the cap-reducing skill at 5 for the standard level, because it didn't feel right to not ask for that until elite. If it's a big problem it can be changed
All ECM setups I can use (on my main) are cap-stable with this skill at 4, be them on a falcon, blackbird or scorpion, only frig sized ships may have some problem but still are fine if I recall right.
So yep I would change it to lvl 4, is more than enough. Teh failure of a signature. |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:21:00 -
[23]
Production Efficiency is underrated for the manufacturing certificates. Level five should be required for standard, if not basic.
Refining related certificates should be tweaked to better reflect the skills needed to refine at specific refining equipment levels.
Scrapmetal processing could do with being separated from the ore processing skills.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:56:00 -
[24]
Thanks Greyscale for looking into. :)
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Uzume Ame
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- The Ewar cert sets all require the cap-reducing skill at 5 for the standard level, because it didn't feel right to not ask for that until elite. If it's a big problem it can be changed
All ECM setups I can use (on my main) are cap-stable with this skill at 4, be them on a falcon, blackbird or scorpion, only frig sized ships may have some problem but still are fine if I recall right.
So yep I would change it to lvl 4, is more than enough.
I'm in agreement with this one. I have the skill to 4 and never have any cap issues whatsoever in any ECM ship. 4 would be more than enough for all certs except Elite (which is supposed to be nber).
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:21:00 -
[26]
mhm tempest is shield tanker with 5 mid slots mhm intresting thinking :D http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:14:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Rid**** Valer on 21/10/2008 00:15:05 Higher level armor tanking certs require core integrity, which require Shield Management?????
I understand why its needed for core integrity, but it shouldn't carry over to a Armor tanking specialization cert.
Also, using Amarr drone spec for anything is suspect.
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Bob Niac
Gallente Kahi Mohala Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:24:00 -
[28]
ID: 64001
Certifaction - Passive Shield Tanking Basic (Incorrect Pre-Req)
This cert requires the "Standard" of active tanking .. is this right?
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.10.21 12:23:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ydyp Ieva on 21/10/2008 12:23:32 Hmm Ice specialist requiring basic ore extraction?
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PeHD0M
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:48:00 -
[30]
Certificates are almost useless currently, because there are no "ship certificates".
When someone is trying to enter player corporation he usually being asked: what ship can you fly?
I mean, what the point of all these specialisation certificates, if i still can't show to someone what ships i can use in combat?
And btw, why you didn't simply create ingame method of showing your skill to someone directly? How can i show tmy skills to one single person, while not making them complitely public so every one can see them?
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