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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 18/10/2008 08:49:32
Many players are dissatisfied with how CCP has handled the ghost-skilling nerf, and of course with the nerf itself. Dealing with this issue unequivocally comes under the CSM remit to 'represent'.
So, reps, please represent us. Please press CCP to
1) Unhide the complaints thread.
2) Stop locking discussion threads on the topic.
3) Respond to customers complaints.
4) Provide supporting detail for information to date that is perceived as disingenuous.
4) Reconsider the feature change in the light of customer desires and expectations.
Thank you.
-vk
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:48:00 -
[2]
I've already put it on the CSM agenda for tomorrow, don't worry, we read locked threads too.
---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:51:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've already put it on the CSM agenda for tomorrow, don't worry, we read locked threads too.
That was fast! Thank you.
./impressed
-vk
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NereSky
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:57:00 -
[4]
I cannot believe they locked a thread - way to go CCP or should i say CCCP
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: NereSky
I cannot believe they locked a thread - way to go CCP or should i say CCCP
I have already dispatched a mail to CCP saying that it's unacceptable. I hope it will be back open very very soon 
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2008.10.18 11:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've already put it on the CSM agenda for tomorrow, don't worry, we read locked threads too.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: NereSky
I cannot believe they locked a thread - way to go CCP or should i say CCCP
I have already dispatched a mail to CCP saying that it's unacceptable. I hope it will be back open very very soon
Not only does this topic deserves a thumbs up, but so do you guys 
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Zanpt
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Posted - 2008.10.18 11:36:00 -
[7]
This is one of the most stupid things I have seen CCP do.
I cancelled nine accounts. They will all come back eventually but I will make sure CCP suffers economically in my accounts from this stupid action and lying explanations.
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Patric Riegns
Lazy Twats Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.18 13:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Patric Riegns on 18/10/2008 13:38:06
Has my full support.
Also offer money back to anyone who signed up for the power of two promotion and who wish to cancel their accounts in light of the removal of ghost training. This will remove any perception that CCP obtained money through deception and may go some way towards mitigating their terrible customer relations on this issue.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:19:00 -
[9]
ad 1) achieved
ad 2) unable to judge, lets see what happens to this thread
ad 3-5) still missing ^^
nice to see its on the csm agenda at least |
Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:51:00 -
[10]
all the posts about ghost training have been locked or "misplaced" how long is this going to be here.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've already put it on the CSM agenda for tomorrow, don't worry, we read locked threads too.
I knew I voted for you for a reason.
_
Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:44:00 -
[12]
Although having accepted CCP's decision, I still think this was very wrong and shortsighted of them.
They have clearly did not tell the truth about the reasons behind the removal of the feature, and attempted on many levels to simply suppress the outcry. If they have admitted that the decision was motivated by business sense, I bet we would still have *****ed, but at least accepted on some level, that it had to be done.
Lying to the community, repeatedly, and just blatantly pretending that we are all idiots is what most infuriating about the whole thing.
So, if CSM could make CCP issue a public apology for blatant lying, and to give us real reasons behind the cancelation other than "data base issues" and "unfair advantage" I would probably consider that a great success.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Many players are dissatisfied with how CCP has handled the ghost-skilling nerf, and of course with the nerf itself. Dealing with this issue unequivocally comes under the CSM remit to 'represent'.
So, reps, please represent us. Please press CCP to
1) Unhide the complaints thread.
2) Stop locking discussion threads on the topic.
3) Respond to customers complaints.
4) Provide supporting detail for information to date that is perceived as disingenuous.
4) Reconsider the feature change in the light of customer desires and expectations.
Thank you.
-vk
Fully supported, lying to the people is bad form, and leaves bad taste in one's mouth.
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Karentaki
Fighting While Intoxicated
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:08:00 -
[14]
Nice to see the CSM sticking up for the player base
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Hooded Person
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:17:00 -
[15]
/signed
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Kara Rhane
Rhane's Research and Development Labs.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:19:00 -
[16]
I don't like to be one who shouts profanities and/or emo rages over something that's done. However if some basic questions by the players can be answered I believe it might go a long way towards smoothing this over instead of hoping it will 'go away'.
*****
Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ
Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets. |
Avalira
Tau Ceti Green Card
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 06:07:00 -
[17]
I support this initiative but I doubt it'll have any impact. Just look at the 30+ 90 day GTC removal a while back; all we asked for was giving up the options even if we paid the new higher price and CCP still ignored it.
If you manage to get them to change ghost training it'll renew my faith in the CSM. You do a great job, don't get me wrong, but CCP doesn't seem to listen to the more sensitive issues.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Malcanis on 19/10/2008 08:03:48
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Although having accepted CCP's decision, I still think this was very wrong and shortsighted of them.
They have clearly did not tell the truth about the reasons behind the removal of the feature, and attempted on many levels to simply suppress the outcry. If they have admitted that the decision was motivated by business sense, I bet we would still have *****ed, but at least accepted on some level, that it had to be done.
Lying to the community, repeatedly, and just blatantly pretending that we are all idiots is what most infuriating about the whole thing.
So, if CSM could make CCP issue a public apology for blatant lying, and to give us real reasons behind the cancelation other than "data base issues" and "unfair advantage" I would probably consider that a great success.
This. I have no expectation that they will reverse their decision, but it would be nice to get an apology for the way we were treated, and an assurance that the lesson has been learned and the error will not be repeated.
CCP: It's your game, shape it how you want. But just don't bullshit us about it, FFS. The bald, unpleasant truth is a hundred times less provocative than a stupid, obvious lie.
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Seriya
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:20:00 -
[19]
Assuming we can't get it back, I'd like
- "Sorry we lied to you."
- "We'll give you a couple of months notice if we ever do anything like this again."
- "We'll go and make you a skill training queue now." (For f**k's sake!)
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Gallan Dracos
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Posted - 2008.10.19 22:47:00 -
[20]
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.19 23:47:00 -
[21]
the funny thing is that we can basically see how useful csm really is on this topic alone. CCP does what CCP wants and doesnt care what the CSM does.
------------------------
"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
dorannl
Mystery Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
the funny thing is that we can basically see how useful csm really is on this topic alone. CCP does what CCP wants and doesnt care what the CSM does.
They can do what ever they want with this game they own it but.
If you create the CSM for beter communication with the player base and then dont use that tool for this kind of things it becomes a lie
Whe can argue about ghost training but its there call. But the communication style lieng and cheating that is what should be stoped by the CSM
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
the funny thing is that we can basically see how useful csm really is on this topic alone. CCP does what CCP wants and doesnt care what the CSM does.
Wait, what? What kind of logic is this?
The CSM hasn't had a chance to get together for a meeting yet, in order to discuss ghost training.
Yet, you deduce because CCP hasn't changed their mind, that the CSM is useless?
Wow, awesome logic. Seriously 
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Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:18:00 -
[24]
I was thinking about the way i used to Ghost train, i have a main (this one) who i have subscribing almost continually for the entire of the chars life (just oevr 4 yrs) and i have an alt who i sub when i can afford it.
Now what i always did was sub for a month, train in a specific fiel duntil lv5, get in a few small sills and then set a lv5 going and cancel the sub.
Yes am sure alot of peopel did this but, with having that Lv5 skill trainign it always gave me sumthing to come back to at the end of (max 38days so far) now tho, i cant afford to continually sub the char and with the skill not training i have nothing to make me sub again after a month or so.
So what happens is, i had a contnual main and then i semi subbed a char for 6 months of the year. now tho i may only sub it in a coupel months time when i find a reason to or maybe even just sell/delete the char all together so CCP have gone from having 100% sub and a 50% sub to just a 100% sub and maybe a 10-25% sub, losing ú135 from me (losing 9 months subs) if that happens with 500 people then the costs soon start to mount up (ú67,500)
maybe allow us to have a certain cut rate price for an alt (account linking) yeah liek power of 2 but maybe summat continually so CCP still get more cash and those that used to be as fair as possibly can with ghost trainign can afford to run an alt too.
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Irongut
M'8'S
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:15:00 -
[25]
Training an account that you don't pay for is cheating imo. I'm glad CCP removed this way for you to gain an unfair advantage over people who actually pay for all their accounts.
Imo CSM should congratulate CCP for taking this action and ask why they didn't do it sooner.
--
The future is Black. Brace for Impact! |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
the funny thing is that we can basically see how useful csm really is on this topic alone. CCP does what CCP wants and doesnt care what the CSM does.
Actually, I think that what will happen when CSM delivers its questions to CCP would really decide for me, and should for you, what CSM is all about. Until CSM actually does something we can't say whether they were effective, or were ignored.
The only gripe I have with CSM is that with the exception of couple of members CSM has been very quiet on their interactions with CCP, whether as some say due to NDA, or other issues, the appearance is there that the were/are ineffectual.
This is what should change with next CSM, I hope.
As far as the issue reflected in this thread: CSM SHOULD MAKE A JOINT STATEMENT - ALL MEMBERS TOGETHER - AS TO WHAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH CCP. Unless, of course, CCP invokes the NDA thing again, or vetoes the discussion outright.
Till then, they should have a benefit of the doubt.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Dhunter
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:36:00 -
[27]
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Grakkus IX
Minmatar
Killer Angels
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:10:00 -
[28]
I have two accounts, one for mining and one for combat skilling. I have been able to maintain both by buying time codes with mining ISK, and it had been working fine. Now, time code prices have climbed past the 1/2 Billion mark, and continue to rise, and my plan was to ghost train one account for 20 days to catch up, but obviously now that's not an option. What is left as an option is to combine my mains into one account and try to maintain. Eve is becoming more like a job than a diversion. Not fun.
No RL, just AFK |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:11:00 -
[29]
I find the ghost training change to be perfectly acceptable, but agree that it was managed poorly by CCP. They were justified in making the change, but it would have been a far better to give a reasonable amount of warning so that those who had been playing by long-held CCP policies were given a chance to adapt. And if it's true they suppressed reasonable debate on the matter, they were wrong to do so.
Not sure what GTC prices have to do with anything, since GTC prices are player-driven.
--
Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Squirrrel
Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.21 19:44:00 -
[30]
Sure. Let the CSMs run with it.
Might drive home to more people exactly how CCP don't really care and the CSM is just a PR Tool.
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