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Meaningless Deaths

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Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:08:00 - [31] Eve already has some of the harshest death penalties to be found in any mmo. permadeath is a terrible idea unless the skill training system is completely revamped somehow, because nobody will play the game if you can lose 5+ years of progress with no way to get it back.
Taedrin Gallente Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Gobi Mettle 1) If I have an alpha clone which everyone gets for free anyway (so I can't help having that clone), and I die with more skill points than an alpha can protect, do I lose all skill points over that alpha skill point limit or is it chance based? and how does eve decide which skills to deduct points from? is it spread evenly across all trained skills ? is it weighted against higher level skills? or is it based on the training order? Originally by: Gieron Question 1: No, you only loose 5% of the difference between your skill points and the skill points the clone can hold. For example; you have 1,800,000 SP, the clone can hold 800,000 SP, you loose 50,000 SP. You will also lose the SP from your highest0ranked lvl 5 skill. Both incorrect. You lose the LESSER of: The difference between your clone and current SP OR half of the skill with the most sps trained into it. This can really hurt bad if you have BS V trained.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:28:00 - [33] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 20/10/2008 18:29:29 I knew someone once who swore that they would play the whole 'Meaningful Death' game and delete her character if she got podded. A year and some change later, when she finally was podded for the first time, she was quite displeased - but realized real quick that this game would be quite unfun at all to restart to get back to her point. Due to the nature of skill training here, if I were to be podded and lose all the the SP I've accumulated in the game, I'd unsubscribe in a heartbeat. The added 'thrill' of death is not worth losing 2 years work of abilities in game that would take another 2 years to get back, especially given how easy it is to lose the pod. Heck, I'd probably cry if I screwed up and lost half of BS V ;_; ----
JabJabVVV Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2008.10.20 18:58:00 - [34] Op, I really don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. The death penalty in Eve is pretty finely balanced; just harsh enough to make risk exciting but not harsh enough to make death ruinous (in most cases). If you re-role every time you are podded then you can go two routes with each new character; one route results in death even more 'meaningless' than the conventional system and the other is supremely boring. Either you play with a fairly fun and carefree style in which case you will not last long enough between poddings to build a character worth worrying about OR you can play in a very restricted and risk controlled manner which will lessen your game play opportunities and hence will be boring. With an up to date clone PvP is like an extreme sport; it is exciting but the risk is manageable. Without a clone it is akin to Russian Roulette... and I've heard that game looses it's appeal pretty fast. If you want to increase the death penalty then fly more expensive ships, stop training for a week after each podding, give me 20million isk each time you die or fly with a clone that only holds 3/4 of your skill points... just don't re-role or fly without a clone; it's pointless and will not be fun. ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.
Monica Beluci	Posted - 2008.10.20 19:51:00 - [35] OP = troll GTFO
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.10.21 04:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Gobi Mettle Reroll twice a day? What are you doing to get yourself podded that often? Well, I'm talking extremes of course. But taking into account that EVE sometimes lags, and should you venture into 0.0, podding is commonplace. There are some who are better at it than others, but getting podded can sometimes be as ridiculous as the client freezing up for five seconds, and you can't do anything about it. But it might also be something stupid such as a smart bombing typhoon on a low-sec gate. All combat is not skill-dependent, random accidents do happen. And I sincerely doubt you want to start a new character every time something stupid happens.
Gunja Ancient 30 ounces	Posted - 2008.10.21 04:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Gobi Mettle Any comments welcomed. Get outside much?...should try it Quote: Originally by: Face Palmer Petition it. Say Australia is stuck, maybe they'll move it for you.
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Taedrin Both incorrect. You lose the LESSER of: The difference between your clone and current SP OR half of the skill with the most sps trained into it. This can really hurt bad if you have BS V trained. Also wrong, but close, see here
TimMc Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Gunja Ancient Originally by: Gobi Mettle Any comments welcomed. Get outside much?...should try it This. Go play russian roulette.
Gobi Mettle	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:40:00 - [40] Edited by: Gobi Mettle on 21/10/2008 08:40:03 Originally by: Gunja Ancient Get outside much?...should try it The light, it burns runs back inside to bask in the cool glow of the LCD
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:21:00 - [41] Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 21/10/2008 11:21:34 Originally by: Gobi Mettle I've been thinking that I really dislike infinite lives that EVE give us capusleers. Death has no meaning because death never really happens, only material loss. I've been wondering if it's feasible to play in a way where death has a meaning if only to me. I see 2 possible play styles 1) Never buy a clone, if someone pods me, I lose all skill points. Pros: Remain part of the corp, with basic skills to restart training from Cons: Keep money and items, and I'm not sure I want to have to trash every item I might have accaquired since my last death. 2) Reroll a new character after every death, lose all skills, items, isk. Pros: Proper death Cons: Pain getting the character setup again (stats, naming, corp memberships etc) But I have some questions! 1) If I have an alpha clone which everyone gets for free anyway (so I can't help having that clone), and I die with more skill points than an alpha can protect, do I lose all skill points over that alpha skill point limit or is it chance based? and how does eve decide which skills to deduct points from? is it spread evenly across all trained skills ? is it weighted against higher level skills? or is it based on the training order? 2) are there any corps already doing in this? I can't image that there will be since any corp who uses meaningful death (tm -gobi mettle 2008) pilots is going to be at a huge disadvantage, imagine getting wardec'd by a corp, you meet them in battle and kill a few of their pilots and they kill a few of yours but when your pilots come out a second time, they are in frigates and the other corps pilots are still in what ever it was they flew last time. It might be that meaningful death pilots have no place in a character corps for precisely this reason. 3) Suggestions for a character (assuming I go with the never buy a clone approach) , I guess I'm looking at a character that can learn those early skills quickly but can generalize out to do almost anything, is one particular race very good at generlization? Should I be evening out the characters attributes as much as possible or should some attributes alway be slightly higher. Any comments/suggestion welcomed. This idea is dumb. Moving along now.
Tykkis	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:38:00 - [42] EVE hardcore option. Would be interesting and require some special rules. I remember Diablo. Tiny lag and bye bye 30 levels.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:42:00 - [43] You can adjust the death penalty yourself: - Don't upgrade your clone. Ever. - Create an alt that gets all your insurance money transfered. Trash alt regularly. - Biomass your character after getting podded. Maybe transfer (some) of your stuff to your next character as 'inheritance' There. EVE is a sandbox. Do as you wish. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Gobi Mettle	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Abrazzar You can adjust the death penalty yourself: - Biomass your character after getting podded. Maybe transfer (some) of your stuff to your next character as 'inheritance' Which is the path I've decided to take. http://eves-onelife.blogspot.com/ I have thought about giving stuff to a corp if I'm a member as a sort of inheritance but I guess I'll play that one by ear at the time. I have also decided that to keep me honest, if any catches me cheating, post on the forums why you think I'm using a podded character and that person will get all my stuff.
Gieron Middleton and Mercer LLP Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:53:00 - [45] Originally by: Taedrin Both incorrect. You lose the LESSER of: The difference between your clone and current SP OR half of the skill with the most sps trained into it. Also incorrect. You loose the LESSER of: 5% of the difference OR half the trained SP of the skill you have the most SP trained in. See here: SP loss when podded
Feriluce Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:38:00 - [46] Edited by: Feriluce on 21/10/2008 15:40:07 Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Gobi Mettle 1) If I have an alpha clone which everyone gets for free anyway (so I can't help having that clone), and I die with more skill points than an alpha can protect, do I lose all skill points over that alpha skill point limit or is it chance based? and how does eve decide which skills to deduct points from? is it spread evenly across all trained skills ? is it weighted against higher level skills? or is it based on the training order? Originally by: Gieron Question 1: No, you only loose 5% of the difference between your skill points and the skill points the clone can hold. For example; you have 1,800,000 SP, the clone can hold 800,000 SP, you loose 50,000 SP. You will also lose the SP from your highest ranked lvl 5 skill. And only up to 50% of that skill, so if the 5% difference is lets say 2 mill SP and your highest rank lvl 5 skill is 1 mill SP, you'll only lose 500k SP. Edit: Maybe i should have read the thread before posting.
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:03:00 - [47] A real, painful death must be in line with how easy it is to die. That is, the more painful you want to make the death, the harder it has to be to die; on the other hand, the less painful it is to die, the easier it should be to actually die. This relationship is present in almost all games with characters. In WOW death is fairly common (I think) and so the consequences of death are not great. Same goes for, say, first-person shooter games. If you want to make death very very painful, then you've got to make death less common, or rather, not so easy to fall into. Which means changing game mechanics like longer, more complex fights, the ability to install special escape mechanisms in a ship in the event of a ship explosion in hostile territory, etc.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Jukhta Mein A real, painful death must be in line with how easy it is to die. That is, the more painful you want to make the death, the harder it has to be to die; on the other hand, the less painful it is to die, the easier it should be to actually die. This relationship is present in almost all games with characters. In WOW death is fairly common (I think) and so the consequences of death are not great. Same goes for, say, first-person shooter games. If you want to make death very very painful, then you've got to make death less common, or rather, not so easy to fall into. Which means changing game mechanics like longer, more complex fights, the ability to install special escape mechanisms in a ship in the event of a ship explosion in hostile territory, etc. In wow it's very easy to die indeed (unless fighting things far lower level than you) for instance, how many of us get blown up fairly regularly whilst doing a mission? I imagone not many people unless they're about a day old. Whilst in WoW you can die fairly easy if you pull 2-3 mobs by accident. If there was a death penalty anymore harsher than there already is it would be a nightmare imo.

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